Are we just going to have to live with unvaccinated people across Thailand?

[ozimoron]

4 minutes ago, RandiRona said:

Agree, The silver lining from this pandemic is it showed that how ill prepared and divided we are it's hard to get consensus on decisions and society is divided on partisan lines. Hope some learning from this world can utilize to make things better for everyone. Now Pfizer tablet Paxlovid is available for treatment after the fact so I guess worse is behind us.

In Australia at least the availability of Paxlovid is still prescription only and only for patients considered to be at risk. I'm hoping it becomes available over the counter in Thailand.

 

https://www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/gps-will-soon-be-able-to-prescribe-two-new-oral-tr

[RandiRona]

12 minutes ago, heybruce said:

People who choose not to get vaccinated have to live with this

Yes , they are living with it and we have to live with them. They are active and contributing part of society as are vaccinated. Policies are created by governments and people have right to protest(not in Thailand though). That doesnt make them us vs them. So give respect, gain respect!!

[ozimoron]

15 minutes ago, RandiRona said:

Yes , they are living with it and we have to live with them. They are active and contributing part of society as are vaccinated. Policies are created by governments and people have right to protest(not in Thailand though). That doesnt make them us vs them. So give respect, gain respect!!

People who don't vaccinate against medical advice without a medical exemption deserve far less than respect. They are incubating the virus and increasing the risk of mutations as well as passing it on to others. In the case of delta, the chance of a breakthrough infection once vaccinated are miniscule and there is still plenty of delta floating around. Hospitals are being overwhelmed by omicron cases simply because it's so infectious and the vast bulk of patients in ICU are unvaccinated. meanwhile, elective surgery is being cancelled. I would be in favour of vaccine mandates with criminal prosecutions for those who don't comply.

 

Expert’s warning: Coronavirus mutation can only happen among unvaccinated, immunocompromised

 

https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1533841/experts-warning-coronavirus-mutation-can-only-happen-among-unvaccinated-immunocompromised

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/17/unvaccinated-coronavirus-covid-variants-us

Edited February 4, 2022 by ozimoron

[Artisi]

54 minutes ago, RandiRona said:

No , I was merely suggesting that a private business has right to deny service in certain scenarios but they cant discriminate based on health and* life style choices people make, like they cant deny service to an Arab wrapped in drape or an alphabet requesting a cake.

 

This is where the problem is, if I have told you that for all variants of flu , you have to take same shot , every six months, would you have taken it? Then why for every different variant of Covid, alpha, beta delta, omicron, there is same shot ...every six months? At some point of time you have to start thinking why and what? Nothing different from when you move from one doctor to another when you think first one doesn't have your best interest in mind, both are qualified though. I know it's very political,  what I am saying is let's not vilify people choices. People are right to choose for themselves , even if those choices are wrong from your's perspective.

I'm not disagreeing with your overall comment, however - is a wrong decision on their part acceptable to your long term survival.

In saying that I'm not 100% sure that the long term effect of the current vaccinations is safe, making it one of the reasons some people are anti-vac. I'm fully vacc'd as a precaution to others, but at my age my time here is limited anyway so if it's a wrong decision on my part - so be it. 

[Presnock]

I am elderly, lived around the world, went through several of those "yellow" shot records during

my career days and continue to get yearly vac for flu and pneumococcal shots when sked, and got 2 Pfizer shots and waiting for 6 months for (paid already) Moderna booster (have to wait 6 months or the insurance won't cover if any side effects) and recommend these shots for everyone eligible.  If not only for oneself, seeing as how many that actually get infected still have many symptoms long afterwards, sometime lifetime and the illness itself could be serious or fatal though I recognize the % is fairly low especially depending on one's overall health.  But, consider the health care people, the nurses, doctors, and others in hospitals that subject themselves and their families to YOUR infections.  The majority of those in the US (largest numbers in the world) that are still being hospitalized and deaths are by far unvaxx'd individuals.  Those care givers are worn out after fighting this for a couple of years and for the past year, the US has had ample vaccines for everyone!  Here I also recognize that some vaccines may not be acceptable to all - such as me, I sure don't want any Chinese vaccine while others will wait in line for it.  I do hope everyone can practice all the safe measures to lower the possibility of being infected and that they don't in turn infect their elders or young kids. 

[freedomnow]

40 minutes ago, JayBird said:

Natural immunity helps you survive, but does not stop you from spreading the virus to someone else.

...and are the vaccines any better at stopping viral load shedding than natural immunity ?

Obviously not, or we'd not still have masks globally.

[heybruce]

18 minutes ago, RandiRona said:

Yes , they are living with it and we have to live with them. They are active and contributing part of society as are vaccinated. Policies are created by governments and people have right to protest(not in Thailand though). That doesnt make them us vs them. So give respect, gain respect!!

I wrote a paragraph and you replied to a single sentence without any of the context.  That indicates a weak argument.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, freedomnow said:

...and are the vaccines any better at stopping viral load shedding than natural immunity ?

Obviously not, or we'd not still have masks globally.

non sequiter. Unless the vaccines were 100% effective we would still have to wear masks. What is known is that vaccines do stop transmission of delta at least and a vaccine after natural immunity is better than natural immunity alone. Only fools would gamble that they will survive delta just to get natural immunity.

[heybruce]

8 minutes ago, Artisi said:

I'm not disagreeing with your overall comment, however - is a wrong decision on their part acceptable to your long term survival.

In saying that I'm not 100% sure that the long term effect of the current vaccinations is safe, making it one of the reasons some people are anti-vac. I'm fully vacc'd as a precaution to others, but at my age my time here is limited anyway so if it's a wrong decision on my part - so be it. 

Evidence to date show that the long term effects of a Covid infection are much worse than side effects from the vaccinations.

[AKJeff]

Yes, we will, or at least I hope we will.  Treating some people as less than others has never lead to a good outcome.

[RandiRona]

58 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

People who don't vaccinate against medical advice without a medical exemption deserve far less than respect. They are incubating the virus and increasing the risk of mutations as well as passing it on to others. In the case of delta, the chance of a breakthrough infection once vaccinated are miniscule and there is still plenty of delta floating around. Hospitals are being overwhelmed by omicron cases simply because it's so infectious and the vast bulk of patients in ICU are unvaccinated. meanwhile, elective surgery is being cancelled. I would be in favour of vaccine mandates with criminal prosecutions for those who don't comply.

 

Expert’s warning: Coronavirus mutation can only happen among unvaccinated, immunocompromised

 

https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1533841/experts-warning-coronavirus-mutation-can-only-happen-among-unvaccinated-immunocompromised

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/17/unvaccinated-coronavirus-covid-variants-us

I have to agree with the dire situation in hospitals and its same horror story in all these waves of Covid (Alpha , beta , Delta, Omicron) and even when there was a big part of population either vaccinated or survived covid , still hospitals were full all the time. I am not going to make an argument about effectiveness of same vaccines against 4 or more different variants. Also wont make an argument about breakthrough case as its not miniscule and you can verify this from NYT or other places. I would make an argument about the kind of healthcare system we have created. Now consider a scenario where normal flu become as infectious as Omicron is , you think outcome would be any different in terms of hospital bed filled with Flu patients? It happened year after year in States where normal flu filled up the bed and deaths were significant as well. But nothing changed as creating more hospitals means less profit so keep the prices up and get this insurance scam going. So we need to make this healthcare bigger and wider so that we can effectively deal with this kind of pandemic in future.

What I am also saying is that once you ask for any kind of mandate or prosecution, it has wider or long term effects , you may not remember Covid in six months but an unrest or destabilization caused by any kind of mandate or criminal prosecution has very wider, long term and serious impacts. We don't have to give more power to governments that they already have. Govt around the world never had this kind of unprecendented powers before , other than North Korea , China or middle east countries. Lets keep the personal decision making to ourselves.

Edited February 4, 2022 by RandiRona

[FalangKino]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Stop trolling. No country or doctor has ever said we need a third or fourth booster.

Stop lying. Israel has started and has trialed their 4th shot. You can not do anything there without at least the 3rd shot.

 

France has made it so you can't even enter the country without 3 shots.

 

Fauci has said we need a 4th booster.

 

 

That is 3 quick examples. I'm sure I could find more if I cared enough.

[thaibreaker]

Just one question: Are any airliner at all not accepting unvaccinated passengers, but with a fresh negative PCR test? 

Not of my knowledge. I see it's mentioned here several times.

I guess you can still fly without being vaccinated, but several destinations on the other hand, require it.

[thaibreaker]

29 minutes ago, FalangKino said:

Stop lying. Israel has started and has trialed their 4th shot. You can not do anything there without at least the 3rd shot.

 

France has made it so you can't even enter the country without 3 shots.

 

Fauci has said we need a 4th booster.

 

 

That is 3 quick examples. I'm sure I could find more if I cared enough.

A 4th booster? That is 6 shots.. Your third shot is the first booster.

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Prove it. Don't just just throw out statements you know will be contested without relevant links.

No need, absolutely no need, the whole world has seen doctors, respected national and international health/virology experts, health ministers etc., on TV and in various media reports endorsing booosters and encouraging folks to get a booster(s). No further comment needed.

Edited February 4, 2022 by scorecard

[Andrew Dwyer]

“ Seems a long time ago that tennis star Novak Djokovic had his visa to enter Australiadramatically revoked and he was deported. “

 

Wasn’t it last week ??

[scorecard]

7 hours ago, Artisi said:

I'm not disagreeing with your overall comment, however - is a wrong decision on their part acceptable to your long term survival.

In saying that I'm not 100% sure that the long term effect of the current vaccinations is safe, making it one of the reasons some people are anti-vac. I'm fully vacc'd as a precaution to others, but at my age my time here is limited anyway so if it's a wrong decision on my part - so be it. 

QUOTE:  "No , I was merely suggesting that a private business has right to deny service in certain scenarios but they cant discriminate based on health and* life style choices people make, like they cant deny service to an Arab wrapped in drape or an alphabet requesting a cake."

 

It's become well established that shop owners etc., can refuse service when people deliberately refuse to abide by health regulations which are there for a specific health scenario e.g. to help stop the spread of the Covid- 19 virus. This point is as clear as a bell. 

 

Unfortunately/very unfortunately in some countries this has been overtaken by certain political parties who should act more like intelligent, caring, respectful adults.

 

Refusing service to people dressed in a certain national garb or refusing to sell a cake to a gay person is different.

[FalangKino]

24 minutes ago, thaibreaker said:

A 4th booster? That is 6 shots.. Your third shot is the first booster.

You know full well what I meant.

[Eric Loh]

47 minutes ago, thaibreaker said:

Just one question: Are any airliner at all not accepting unvaccinated passengers, but with a fresh negative PCR test? 

Not of my knowledge. I see it's mentioned here several times.

I guess you can still fly without being vaccinated, but several destinations on the other hand, require it.

There are some exception for airlines accepting unvaccinated passengers. These are airlines in countries that have vaccination inadequacies like some African countries and also for passengers with medical conditions. WHO and ITTA support such policy. 

[Aussie999]

7 hours ago, alextrat1966 said:

Sure, everyone has the right not to take the vaccine. But so do business owners have the right not to let unvaccinated people enter their businesses, or fly aboard their airplanes, and so do countries have the right not to let the unvaccinated enter. 

 

Any choice you make in life, has consequences (no matter in regards to vaccines or not). If you freely make a choice, you must manly take the consequences. 

I really don't understand this, in my opinion it makes no difference, whether customers are vaccinated. or not, those vaccinated have some protection, those not vaccinated, take the risk, it matters not, even to staff, who also take the risk of not being vaccinated.
oh, and before anyone accuses me, of not being vaccinated... I have had 3 jabs.

[jvs]

2 minutes ago, Aussie999 said:

I really don't understand this, in my opinion it makes no difference, whether customers are vaccinated. or not, those vaccinated have some protection, those not vaccinated, take the risk, it matters not, even to staff, who also take the risk of not being vaccinated.
oh, and before anyone accuses me, of not being vaccinated... I have had 3 jabs.

Ok i will take a stab at your response,in plain language and looking at it the way you do ,yes i think you are right.A little bit in the trend of wearing a helmet or not.

If you wear a helmet why should you care about some one you do not know who does not wear one?

Again,on the surface you are right.

However it goes much deeper then that,not being vaccinated means your chance of getting infected

and becoming seriously ill are much higher then if you would be vaccinated.

So far no biggy?

Again,(and i can not believe why people keep ignoring this fact) infected people are clogging up the

hospitals and depleting resources.

I really can not understand why people would refuse to be vaccinated against Covid.Of course there are exemptions but only a few.

If you are against being vaccinated just think about this,would you refuse a blood transfusion

if the donor was vaccinated?It could save your life?

Are people really thinking for them selves or just regurgitating what they find on social media?

Just have a look at the percentage of people dying in the USA who are not vaccinated against

those who are.

Do your own research but please  use your brain.

Getting vaccinated against Covid has a lot to do with being a social human being.

If you do not do it for your self ,do it for others.

 

[thaibreaker]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

There are some exception for airlines accepting unvaccinated passengers. These are airlines in countries that have vaccination inadequacies like some African countries and also for passengers with medical conditions. WHO and ITTA support such policy. 

Not true. I've checked with airlines directly around the globe, I have not had one airline answering you must be vaccinated to fly.

All airlines from Indonesia, where I'm currently at, and out of the country, have no restrictions. Just need a negative PCR test. No airlines entering any Nordic countries have any such restrictions either.

 

I've also checked with airports.

 

That means these are not exceptions, but the rule.

 

Where do you have your info from? 

Edited February 4, 2022 by thaibreaker

[hioctane]

It will be some time (if ever) before most countries allow the unvaccinated in.

[thaibreaker]

13 minutes ago, hioctane said:

It will be some time (if ever) before most countries allow the unvaccinated in.

A lot of countries accept travellers in without being vaccinated today. That is a fact.

Almost every European country, to name some.

Edited February 4, 2022 by thaibreaker

[Liverpool Lou]

Can anyone please explain why vaccinated people, i.e. those who instigate OPs such as this, are concerned about those who exercise their right to not be vaccinated?    How can it possibly affect them?   

 

I'm vaccinated and boostered, I don't give a toss if the person next to me is unvaccinated, that's their concern, not mine, in fact, how would I ever know who else is vaccinated?

[Saanim]

3 hours ago, RandiRona said:

Thank you for your advice, That's why I don't live in North Korea, China or any socio-communist country. If you really want autocratic govt to decide what's right for you then you are staring at Gulag or re education camps. But I know you are as safe as I am.

Stay safe my friend!

BTW, is the vaccination compulsory in North Korea? 

[RandiRona]

1 minute ago, Saanim said:

BTW, is the vaccination compulsory in North Korea? 

What is not?????

Edited February 4, 2022 by RandiRona

[Liverpool Lou]

1 hour ago, jvs said:

If you do not do it for your self ,do it for others.

Why?  How is an unvaccinated person any more of a threat to a vaccinated person than the same threat posed by someone who is vaccinated?

[jvs]

4 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Why?  How is an unvaccinated person any more of a threat to a vaccinated person than the same threat posed by someone who is vaccinated?

 

Again,just for you.

If un vaccinated people become infected the chances they are getting severely ill and need to be treated in a hospital are much greater then vaccinated people.

Are you with me so far?

Too many severe cases can clog up the medical system,this can effect al of us.

 

[LukKrueng]

My unvaxed son was near a vaxed yet infected person and got infected. He was asymptomatic. His vaxed gf wasn't infected by him. Many other vaxed classmates got infected (by the same vaxed student that infected my son), and they all had COVID-19 symptoms, some very mild, others not so mild.