They left too early and nothing to show

[Walker88]

5 hours ago, robblok said:

 I saw profits and losses it made me lose faith in the abilities of stock traders. These guys also had personal portfolio's they traded for and even those did not see huge increases (more like losses) in the downturn. 

 

One of the traders often did trades just for the commission, these guys made a lot of money. It was not unheard of to see two guys in the same office take opposite views of how the market or a certain share would move and acted accordingly. It was not a really large company i believe 7 traders if i recall. 

 

 

I'm sure you know this, but guys who work as brokers are NOT traders. They tend to recommend what the company needs to foist on sell to customers, not what anybody really thinks is a good idea. It might be, it might not be. Their job is to generate commissions.

 

I worked for many large investment banks and hedge funds. I was a trader, meaning I did not have to deal with customers. Traders are given a pile of money (position limit and risk limit) and told to make it grow. Make it grow you keep your job; do poorly you get fired. It's a pure meritocracy. The remuneration is sinful, far in excess of the value added to society, but I guess I could say the same for a futball player or actor. It is what it is. I was able to retire at a young age, because I was quite good lucky. I also had the advantage of being allowed to trade anything I wanted in the world, and to be long or short. It's really all about discipline....admitting when one is wrong and getting out of a trade......knowing the market couldn't care less where you bought or sold, has no obligation to let you get out unscathed, and tends to hammer those who dare to think they actually know something. Yes, experience allows one to see patterns and sense moves, because in the end it's humans, and human behavior rarely changes. Loners do well, as they do not get caught up in the buzz and can take positions contrary to what 'experts' are saying. Experts rarely are such, at least the ones who get all the airtime (cough....Cathie Woods....cough....is the latest One Shot Wonder). A guy like George Soros (best I ever saw) keeps his mouth shut and just trades. If anyone really had a sense of the idiosyncrasies of markets and human behavior, it is Mr Soros. So much is attributed to him that simply is not true. I don't think he much cares. He's still worth $30 billion plus and has given away at least as much....most of it quietly and for truly humanitarian purposes.

[robblok]

Just now, Walker88 said:

I'm sure you know this, but guys who work as brokers are NOT traders. They tend to recommend what the company needs to foist on sell to customers, not what anybody really thinks is a good idea. It might be, it might not be. Their job is to generate commissions.

 

I worked for many large investment banks and hedge funds. I was a trader, meaning I did not have to deal with customers. Traders are given a pile of money (position limit and risk limit) and told to make it grow. Make it grow you keep your job; do poorly you get fired. It's a pure meritocracy. The remuneration is sinful, far in excess of the value added to society, but I guess I could say the same for a futball player or actor. It is what it is. I was able to retire at a young age, because I was quite good lucky. I also had the advantage of being allowed to trade anything I wanted in the world, and to be long or short. It's really all about discipline....admitting when one is wrong and getting out of a trade......knowing the market couldn't care less where you bought or sold, has no obligation to let you get out unscathed, and tends to hammer those who dare to think they actually know something. Yes, experience allows one to see patterns and sense moves, because in the end it's humans, and human behavior rarely changes. Loners do well, as they do not get caught up in the buzz and can take positions contrary to what 'experts' are saying. Experts rarely are such, at least the ones who get all the airtime (cough....Cathie Woods....cough....is the latest One Shot Wonder). A guy like George Soros (best I ever saw) keeps his mouth shut and just trades. If anyone really had a sense of the idiosyncrasies of markets and human behavior, it is Mr Soros. So much is attributed to him that simply is not true. I don't think he much cares. He's still worth $30 billion plus and has given away at least as much....most of it quietly and for truly humanitarian purposes.

I know from experience it does not work always work that way. You were a trader for a hedge fund that is different from the guys I described. These guys had their clients managed their portfolio's based on what they allowed (like no options or no short positions ect). 

 

These guys did trades for the clients and were certainly traders, they imputed the trades on the AEX. At the end of the day we imputed all these trades in the portfolio's and the next day we matched them with the stock or option / future positions that came in. To make sure that everything was correct. 

 

Later we matched that with the financial administration, so yea i know what I am talking about and so do you. So these guys were traders and so were you. Just different kind of job and scale. Hedge funds go in with huge amounts these guys did not go in on that scale.

 

It was a fun time, the office was located on the flower market in Amsterdam next to the AFM (the guys that regulate trading in the Netherlands). 

[3NUMBAS]

my old mate trevor retired to phitsanalok worked as a teacher, lived with lek and when they retired  him he jumped in the river and ended it all at 70

[Walker88]

I understand where the OP is coming from, but two things might be good to remember:

 

1) Unless your belief system has reincarnation, you can be pretty sure you get one shot at life, so make the best of it according to YOUR desires, hopes and needs, not what you think society expects of you. Being warm all year, in a laid back culture, and in a place where one might be able to avail one's self of lovely women...if that appeals to someone, then go for it. Judge yourself; don't let others judge you.

 

2) Don't go in blind or unprepared; PLAN

 

There's a Somerset Maugham short story about a guy who was an insurance adjuster. He knew the actuarial tables by heart. He assumed how long he would live and how much money he would need. He beat the actuarial statistics and spent his last years penniless and impoverished.

 

Life takes unexpected turns. Have a nest egg/cash reserve, and a Plan B.

 

Then go out and kick butt and take names....enjoying this all too brief existence. Die with no regrets, and as the Irish toast goes, "May your last check bounce".

[simon43]

[quote]

,,,  I picked up web programming jobs that paid around $3,000 a month, enough for monthly expenses.

[/quote]

 

Hmm, you must have a hell of a lot of monthly expenses!  I earn $3,000 a month and save about $2,000 of that each month.  Although I no longer live in Thailand now (I live in Mauritius), my monthly expenses in both Thailand and Laos were less than $1,000 a month.  (now they are a little higher with the rented jeep and house-with-swimming-pool in Mauritius!).

 

But coming back to the OP's post, I really can't work out how someone earning 30,000 baht a month is effectively destitute.  Guess it is the ciggies, drinks and girls...

Edited February 8, 2022 by simon43

[Guest Isaanlife]

1. Money is king no matter what.

2. Old age will catch up with you at some point.

 

No one can predict how long they will live.

 

That being said, some folks have a pension that will see them through to the end of their lives, even at age 95.

 

Some folks don't seem to understand if you work for minimum wages for 30 years when you get to 65 you have nothing.

 

We hear the stories all the time as the op has posted.

 

Some folks think they are doing great living in Thailand on 30k a month in their 20's and 30's. They obviously do not understand #1 and #2.

 

Sooner or later, EVERYONE has to stop working. Some have smartly planned for that, others were too busy being a grasshopper (grasshopper and the ant)

 

Were you smart enough to plan for the day you had to stop working, or did old age get there before you knew it and you found yourself out of a job?

 

With all the uncertainty of living in the third world and how things can change from one year to the next, one regime to the next, if you have financially covered yourself with a pension or re-occurring income to last you for the rest of your life, you have done well and deserve to enjoy your stay in Thailand and your retirement.

 

For those that never thought that far in advance? There have been 1000's of posts what happens and it is not a happy ending.

 

If you plan for the worst, living till you are 95, and have a financial solution to see you through to the end, you deserve all the credit and to enjoy your golden years worry free.

 

Retirement is not free. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HashBrownHarry]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

(I live in Mauritius)

So you keep telling us - lol.

[1FinickyOne]

8 hours ago, robblok said:

One of the traders often did trades just for the commission,

churning is quite common amongst these types of brokers... and a sure sign that you don't want your money there. I have had 2 managed accounts over the last 20 years and both were almost exclusively buy and hold... and did very well.

[1FinickyOne]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

 You would think "great job" sitting there doing nothing and getting great money.

I thought I would go out of my mind!!

my first real job was between HS and college in the loan department at Chase Manhatten down on Wall Street. I was in a group of 8 and we had nothing to do. They would pull out the real work at 5 pm to get OT... I wasn't allowed to read a book, but I kept it hid under the table. And I would annoy my co-workers. "Mary, would you double check this for me," and I would hand her a blank piece of paper... 

 

The VP in charge of our section was a family friend. After a couple of weeks I went in to see him and told him that they didn't need me. He told me I was doing a great job and if I was bored to come talk with him. He had nothing to do too.

 

He dreamed of retiring and traveling the USA in a Winnebago. He retired at 65 and died a month later. Young men's dreams of retirement and old mens realities don't line up. 

[sipi]

I have an ex-neighbour from 40 years ago who looks me up every 10 years after his latest marriage has broken down, for a roof over his head.

The first time I said "yes", the second time "I'll think about it", the last 2 times " get lost".

Some people are slow learners.

[sirineou]

4 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

He dreamed of retiring and traveling the USA in a Winnebago. He retired at 65 and died a month later. Young men's dreams of retirement and old mens realities don't line up. 

Ohh cr#p I turn 65 in a few months, and I just retired a couple of years ago.

I read some place that at the Greek island of Icaria most people live to be 100, maybe I should move there ????

Not as stupid as I look  huh?

[cdemundo]

In one of Dashiell Hammett's stories a guy has a narrow miss from falling objects as he passes a construction site.

He has an "awakening", looks at his conventional life with a wife, two kids and a mortgage.  He decides to pack it in and leaves his current life behind.

Several years later, he has a conventional life with a wife, two kids and a mortgage, just in a different city.

 

I think this can happen too.

Big geographical change can turn into no essential change

[scubascuba3]

6 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

1. Money is king no matter what.

2. Old age will catch up with you at some point.

 

No one can predict how long they will live.

 

That being said, some folks have a pension that will see them through to the end of their lives, even at age 95.

 

Some folks don't seem to understand if you work for minimum wages for 30 years when you get to 65 you have nothing.

 

We hear the stories all the time as the op has posted.

 

Some folks think they are doing great living in Thailand on 30k a month in their 20's and 30's. They obviously do not understand #1 and #2.

 

Sooner or later, EVERYONE has to stop working. Some have smartly planned for that, others were too busy being a grasshopper (grasshopper and the ant)

 

Were you smart enough to plan for the day you had to stop working, or did old age get there before you knew it and you found yourself out of a job?

 

With all the uncertainty of living in the third world and how things can change from one year to the next, one regime to the next, if you have financially covered yourself with a pension or re-occurring income to last you for the rest of your life, you have done well and deserve to enjoy your stay in Thailand and your retirement.

 

For those that never thought that far in advance? There have been 1000's of posts what happens and it is not a happy ending.

 

If you plan for the worst, living till you are 95, and have a financial solution to see you through to the end, you deserve all the credit and to enjoy your golden years worry free.

 

Retirement is not free. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with most of that except planning to live to 95, no thanks, people can also pick an end date say mid 80s latest, I appreciate most people can't get their head around that

[cobra]

16 hours ago, Pravda said:

 

 ....When older, physically, these minor annoyances and rough edges, can become real obstacles. 

That is a good point,

When annoyance progresses to aggravation, on to frustration, some hard decisions will have to be made,

 

Whether you decide to circle the wagons or retreat to something more familiar, at some point we just want to age in place as comfortable as safely as we can,

 

Thousands of miles away from one's safe harbor may not be the best choice for some. 

[BritManToo]

9 hours ago, simon43 said:

But coming back to the OP's post, I really can't work out how someone earning 30,000 baht a month is effectively destitute.  Guess it is the ciggies, drinks and girls...

Ciggies and drinks don't cost much in Thailand, it's the woman in my bed that costs half (or more) of my income.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

I agree with most of that except planning to live to 95, no thanks, people can also pick an end date say mid 80s latest, I appreciate most people can't get their head around that

Almost everyone I've known has failed to make 65 years old.

At 66 I'm essentially last man standing for my peer group.

 

Planning for the future after you retire is pointless if you die before you retire.

I can't believe I've known so many people who just wanted to work and save for 'one more year' then promptly died without ever really living. I'm really glad I gave up the rat race when I was 45. My only regret is not giving up my Brit wife at the same time.

Edited February 9, 2022 by BritManToo

[Pravda]

55 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Ciggies and drinks don't cost much in Thailand, it's the woman in my bed that costs half (or more) of my income.

 

My uncle who just died at the age of 79 was on a deathbed 20 years ago with multiple strokes and terrible infections. Free Canadian healthcare saved his life. After that life turning event he still decided to continue smoking and had multiple surgeries, to remove this and fix that. If he was living in Thailand he would have died at 59.

 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

52 minutes ago, Pravda said:

My uncle who just died at the age of 79 was on a deathbed 20 years ago with multiple strokes and terrible infections. Free Canadian healthcare saved his life. After that life turning event he still decided to continue smoking and had multiple surgeries, to remove this and fix that. If he was living in Thailand he would have died at 59.

Did you ask him it he thought the 20 extra 'sick' years in Canada were worthwhile?

 

My father in the UK had a heart attack at around 60 years old, in and out of hospital until he died at age 67, couldn't walk much, couldn't even start the lawn mower ....... didn't seem worthwhile to me, I'd have preferred to leave at the first heart attack.

Edited February 9, 2022 by BritManToo

[Pravda]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Did you ask him it he thought the 20 extra 'sick' years in Canada were worthwhile?

 

My father in the UK had a heart attack at around 60 years old, in and out of hospital until he died at age 67, couldn't walk much, couldn't even start the lawn mower ....... didn't seem worthwhile to me, I'd have preferred to leave at the first heart attack.

He wasn't sick. He felt great, continued to eat what he wanted, continued to smoke, continued to live in a big house watching his grandkid being born and grow up. With every little problem he got afterwards, Canadian taxpayer footed the bill. I'm sure it was in the millions of dollars of free healthcare, something he could never receive in Thailand.

[Denim]

This forum really needs a ' bored ' emoticon.

[scubascuba3]

21 minutes ago, Denim said:

This forum really needs a ' bored ' emoticon.

usually unfollow does the trick

[swissie]

IMHO "success-story's" require the following ingredients: Elderly Farang, financially secure,  having "sampled" a number of prospective future "life partners". Patience and careful selection is the clue. Thus increasing the chances of a happy end greatly.
For some undercapitalised Farangs, (driven by bursts of Testosterone and delusionary future expectations) is bound to end up in desaster. It doesn't take any higher mathematics to realise that a salary of 30k a month as an english teacher offers no bright future in Thailand.
And after 20 or some years, to call on someone to finance their return back to "the nanny-state" is outrageous.

- Of course, mostly, "success-story's" emerge, to be shared with the "community". After all, who wants to open a thread titled "How I managed to mess up my life (beyond repair) in my younger years in Thailand".

[swissie]

On 2/8/2022 at 2:03 PM, Walker88 said:

I'm sure you know this, but guys who work as brokers are NOT traders. They tend to recommend what the company needs to foist on sell to customers, not what anybody really thinks is a good idea. It might be, it might not be. Their job is to generate commissions.

 

I worked for many large investment banks and hedge funds. I was a trader, meaning I did not have to deal with customers. Traders are given a pile of money (position limit and risk limit) and told to make it grow. Make it grow you keep your job; do poorly you get fired. It's a pure meritocracy. The remuneration is sinful, far in excess of the value added to society, but I guess I could say the same for a futball player or actor. It is what it is. I was able to retire at a young age, because I was quite good lucky. I also had the advantage of being allowed to trade anything I wanted in the world, and to be long or short. It's really all about discipline....admitting when one is wrong and getting out of a trade......knowing the market couldn't care less where you bought or sold, has no obligation to let you get out unscathed, and tends to hammer those who dare to think they actually know something. Yes, experience allows one to see patterns and sense moves, because in the end it's humans, and human behavior rarely changes. Loners do well, as they do not get caught up in the buzz and can take positions contrary to what 'experts' are saying. Experts rarely are such, at least the ones who get all the airtime (cough....Cathie Woods....cough....is the latest One Shot Wonder). A guy like George Soros (best I ever saw) keeps his mouth shut and just trades. If anyone really had a sense of the idiosyncrasies of markets and human behavior, it is Mr Soros. So much is attributed to him that simply is not true. I don't think he much cares. He's still worth $30 billion plus and has given away at least as much....most of it quietly and for truly humanitarian purposes.

The Tour-Guide showed the tourists the harbour. "Look at all the yachts of the stock-brokers"! One tourist asked "Where are all the yachts of their customers"?

[CartagenaWarlock]

On 2/8/2022 at 12:12 AM, HashBrownHarry said:

I came to Thailand at 26, been here 22 years.

 

I work overseas and make good money.

When I was 26 I was in silicon valley. Travelling all over the World for the next twenty years. Never heard of Thailand.  When I had 3 million USD I left for Thailand. Had my first baby with a 19 year old Poseidon model. I missed a family life in the USA but never regretted it. What did I miss not being in Thailand at the age of 26?

What you miss in life is relative. 

[ChrisP24]

 

If not try, then not know.  But first must make sure they're not just selling the future to enjoy as much as they can now.  Carpe diem yes, but don't let the diem carpe you.    

[Sparktrader]

Ok lets play

 

He lives in Aus gets married. Wife takes 70%. Has a <deleted> life. Fair play he got 30% not 1% but at least he had fun.

 

I lost 500k to people.

 

At least this guy had a fun life for 20 years. Farangland is <deleted>. I hate it.

 

 

[Sparktrader]

On 2/9/2022 at 12:33 AM, simon43 said:

[quote]

,,,  I picked up web programming jobs that paid around $3,000 a month, enough for monthly expenses.

[/quote]

 

Hmm, you must have a hell of a lot of monthly expenses!  I earn $3,000 a month and save about $2,000 of that each month.  Although I no longer live in Thailand now (I live in Mauritius), my monthly expenses in both Thailand and Laos were less than $1,000 a month.  (now they are a little higher with the rented jeep and house-with-swimming-pool in Mauritius!).

 

But coming back to the OP's post, I really can't work out how someone earning 30,000 baht a month is effectively destitute.  Guess it is the ciggies, drinks and girls...

30,000 baht is 1000 a day. Easy to spend. Pussy everywhere.

 

Easy to spend 1,000,000 baht on pussy in 20 years plus booze.

 

 

[GinBoy2]

On 2/8/2022 at 5:03 AM, sirineou said:

Not everyone is the same, I am almost 65 myself but,

I am a cant sit still kind of guy, I am always involved in some project and when I start working I hate to stop, even to eat,

wife is constantly calling me to come and eat and I am always "10 more minutes" LOL.

I also like to travel. If you want to punish me, make me do nothing, I would probably lose my mind.

When I was in collage my brother got me a job covering for the doormen as they went on vacation in the summer, at a posh  park avenue building, The money were very good, and there were tips, The job involved just sitting there , opening the door, being pleasant to people, and getting a cab, if it was raining, holding an umbrella. In the evening shifts some times I would go for hours not seeing a person.

 You would think "great job" sitting there doing nothing and getting great money.

I thought I would go out of my mind!! Next summer when they called me back , I told them "not on your life." ????

This is the problem for a sub section of us.

 

I retired at 55. We were in Singapore at the time then we moved to Thailand, against my wife's better judgment.

 

She said I'd be bored within 10 years, she got it right by 11 months.

 

I couldn't stand not having a reason to get up in the morning by the end of it.

 

I would have just been happy to be able to go volunteer at the local school to teach English if they would have let me.

 

There is only so much TV you can watch, books to read, I basically went stir crazy

[stigar]

5 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

This is the problem for a sub section of us.

 

I retired at 55. We were in Singapore at the time then we moved to Thailand, against my wife's better judgment.

 

She said I'd be bored within 10 years, she got it right by 11 months.

 

I couldn't stand not having a reason to get up in the morning by the end of it.

 

I would have just been happy to be able to go volunteer at the local school to teach English if they would have let me.

 

There is only so much TV you can watch, books to read, I basically went stir crazy

I understand you.Been there,done that when i lived in a small village in surin before.I worked offshore 6 weeks on/off that time.Worked in singapore,malaysia,indonesia and india.So i really had good times when at work.Yes,we was often at bars/nigthclubs.When back in surin it was wery boring until i start going to karaoke at nigthtime.My exwife drived me there and picked me up late nigth.I have never thinking about retired in thailand.Im there 6 months a year and thats enough.My lady work everyday 10-15 hour in her salon.1 month a year shes in in my country.

[The Hammer2021]

On 2/8/2022 at 8:41 PM, 3NUMBAS said:

my old mate trevor retired to phitsanalok worked as a teacher, lived with lek and when they retired  him he jumped in the river and ended it all at 70

Thanks for that