MRNA booster better for those with two AstraZeneca jabs

[webfact]

 

By Erich Parpart

 

A mRNA booster shot for people who had two AstraZeneca shots will provide better protection against Covid-19 when compared to three doses of AstraZeneca, according to local studies as revealed by a prominent public health expert.

 

AstraZeneca said in December that three doses of its Covid vaccine is effective against Omicron which is currently the dominating variant in Thailand.

 

Dr Yong Poovorawan, the head of the Centre of Excellence in Clinical Virology at Chulalongkorn University, said the Triple A model does provide better protection than two doses of AstraZeneca but not as high as using mRNA as a booster.

 

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Full story: https://www.thaienquirer.com/37394/mrna-booster-better-for-those-with-two-astrazeneca-jabs/

 

-- © Copyright Thai Enquirer 2022-02-10

 

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[Rimmer]

A misleading post has been removed

[Airalee]

A friend of mine who works in Malls (rotates between different malls) had 2 AZ shots originally and for her booster is required to get Pfizer.  No Moderna is being used as she informs me.  Why Pfizer and not Moderna?  I don’t know and neither does she.

[tonray]

2 hours ago, Airalee said:

A friend of mine who works in Malls (rotates between different malls) had 2 AZ shots originally and for her booster is required to get Pfizer.  No Moderna is being used as she informs me.  Why Pfizer and not Moderna?  I don’t know and neither does she.

It's simply supply. They have much more Pfizer on hand. Moderna has had production limits because of not allowing many licensees to produce their vaccine.

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, Airalee said:

A friend of mine who works in Malls (rotates between different malls) had 2 AZ shots originally and for her booster is required to get Pfizer.  No Moderna is being used as she informs me.  Why Pfizer and not Moderna?  I don’t know and neither does she.

My local health authority is offering Pfizer after 2X Astra... no other choice.

My booster is due later this month.

[swm59nj]

There have been different medical articles from different countries.  They say that the booster should be from an MRNA vaccine 

[sandyf]

5 minutes ago, swm59nj said:

There have been different medical articles from different countries.  They say that the booster should be from an MRNA vaccine 

The problem is that sort of article is looking at it from what they know now, which is a short term basis. Primarily on the short term protection from antibodies, but they are other factors that should be considered.

If you have had 2 vaccinations without any ill effects why experiment?

The other thing that never gets mentioned is that MRNA is new technology, unlike the AZ method there is no long term history.

Given the choice I know which way I would prefer to jump.

[arithai12]

It seems some readers are confusing mRNA with Moderna - understandably.

Both Pfizer and Moderna are based on the mRNA method.

 

[arithai12]

26 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The problem is that sort of article is looking at it from what they know now, which is a short term basis. Primarily on the short term protection from antibodies, but they are other factors that should be considered.

If you have had 2 vaccinations without any ill effects why experiment?

The other thing that never gets mentioned is that MRNA is new technology, unlike the AZ method there is no long term history.

Given the choice I know which way I would prefer to jump.

Jump as much as you like, but mRNA is not a new technology. It has been used for vaccines (obviously other than Covid-19) for a long time.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/mrna.html

 

 

[jetboi]

4 hours ago, Airalee said:

A friend of mine who works in Malls (rotates between different malls) had 2 AZ shots originally and for her booster is required to get Pfizer.  No Moderna is being used as she informs me.  Why Pfizer and not Moderna?  I don’t know and neither does she.

“A wider gap between the first two doses of the mRNA Covid-19 vaccines could improve the shots’ effectiveness and help reduce the risk of a rare type of heart inflammation called myocarditis, experts told a Centers for Disease Control and Prevention advisory committee on Friday,” as NBC reported.

Does anyone truly know what the heck is going on with these vaccines?

Edited February 10, 2022 by jetboi

[BangkokReady]

Or go for another non-MRNA just in case?  Moderna or JJ?

[Skallywag]

16 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

It has been used for vaccines (obviously other than Covid-19) for a long time.

Studies with rats started in the 1990's.  Believe mRNA was considered for Ebola in 2013 but never developed AFAIK.   Was not until 2005 that scientists developed an injectable mRNA. 

Decades of research, but not "used for vaccines...for a long time"

Still very promising and am glad I got my Moderna booster last week.  

 

[CANSIAM]

I believe Dr Yong stated about 2-3 months ago a 3rd AZ was the way to go......... 

[jetboi]

3 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Or go for another non-MRNA just in case?  Moderna or JJ?

Kinda like ordering a pizza. And, sync with your regular monthly Netflix payment.

 

No, actually all jokes aside: this quote from the WHO:

And, in a statement released on 11 January, the World Health Organization warned that “a vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable”.

[Skallywag]

11 minutes ago, oMega69 said:

got sms about 3rd inject and now with Pzifer . . WILL ofcourse decline that one ! ! mRNA is EVIL . . i hope i get a sms offer with AZ later on.,

Why decline mRNA?  Over 540 million shots of Pfizer and Moderna given in the USA already, death rate less than 0.002% according to CDC

[Skallywag]

5 minutes ago, CANSIAM said:

I believe Dr Yong stated about 2-3 months ago a 3rd AZ was the way to go......... 

A month ago in the Thaiger Dr. Yong stated 3rd booster important to fight Omicron and mentioned AZ, Pfizer, or Moderna as a booster.   Said nothing about AZ as "the way to go" or best choice, etc...

 https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/dr-yong-omicron-spike-imminent-get-booster-to-end-pandemic

[oMega69]

20 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Or go for another non-MRNA just in case?  Moderna or JJ?

I only have fate in AZ as a "safe" option .

[ozimoron]

Risk of new heart problems jumps after COVID; mRNA shot side effects no different for cancer patients

 

Long after recovery from COVID-19, people face significantly higher risks for new heart problems, a large study has found.

 

https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/science/risk-new-heart-problems-jumps-after-covid-mrna-shot-side-effects-no-different-2022-02-09/

[BangkokReady]

22 minutes ago, jetboi said:

“a vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable”

Surely that just means a booster designed for Beta is not as effective against Omicron and beyond?

[Kenchamp]

I don't know one person in Thailand who has got seriously ill with covid after being vaccinated twice, in fact everybidy has reported mild, cold like symptoms. 

For me the two jabs of AZ i have had is enough the way things stand. 

[mrfill]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

The problem is that sort of article is looking at it from what they know now, which is a short term basis. Primarily on the short term protection from antibodies, but they are other factors that should be considered.

If you have had 2 vaccinations without any ill effects why experiment?

The other thing that never gets mentioned is that MRNA is new technology, unlike the AZ method there is no long term history.

Given the choice I know which way I would prefer to jump.

The 'new technology' is hardly new, having been around over 30 years.

[bobbin]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

The problem is that sort of article is looking at it from what they know now, which is a short term basis. Primarily on the short term protection from antibodies, but they are other factors that should be considered.

If you have had 2 vaccinations without any ill effects why experiment?

The other thing that never gets mentioned is that MRNA is new technology, unlike the AZ method there is no long term history.

Given the choice I know which way I would prefer to jump.

AZ uses viral vector technology, based on a modified chimpanzee cold virus. It's no more tried and tested than Mrna vaccines. It's only previous use was in a vaccine for Ebola, and that was within the last 2-3 years..

 

You want old school? Sinovac for you.

Edited February 10, 2022 by bobbin

[KhunBENQ]

2 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Or go for another non-MRNA just in case?  Moderna or JJ?

Moderna IS a mRNA vax.

And considered the "strongest".

I survived it for about 2 months now.

[Nojohndoe]

4 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

Moderna IS a mRNA vax.

And considered the "strongest".

I survived it for about 2 months now.

So tell us how you feel?  Is there  any ringing in one ear or  both in a harmonious symphony that  ushers in both sleep and awaking? Is there a glow on the horizon in soft and subtle hues indicative of personal satisfaction with not only your personal position but that of the  global where  despite momentary issues of dissent humanity  has averted  global warfare in preference to  lesser demonstrations of potential entire destruction or totalitarian control ?

That you have survived thus far does provide some degree of comfort  who suspected the claims of  non compliant  agitators  may have some degree of truth. That they indeed may be in the longer term is of less importance  or consideration if  already in the latter years of life expectancy so long  as the fate of progeny can be ignored in preference to current personal circumstances ! Survival instinct! Primitive or practical?

 

[CANSIAM]

3 hours ago, Skallywag said:

A month ago in the Thaiger Dr. Yong stated 3rd booster important to fight Omicron and mentioned AZ, Pfizer, or Moderna as a booster.   Said nothing about AZ as "the way to go" or best choice, etc...

 https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/dr-yong-omicron-spike-imminent-get-booster-to-end-pandemic

Thanks for the correction, we all like to hear what the Head of the centre of Excellence in Virology has to say anyway...

[Jingthing]

I just had my Moderna booster today after the initial two AZs.

Had to pay for it. No problem.

I would have been fine with the free Pfizer but I was not comfortable with the super spreader environments of the venues I had access to for it. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 hours ago, sandyf said:

he problem is that sort of article is looking at it from what they know now, which is a short term basis. Primarily on the short term protection from antibodies, but they are other factors that should be considered.

If you have had 2 vaccinations without any ill effects why experiment?

The other thing that never gets mentioned is that MRNA is new technology, unlike the AZ method there is no long term history.

Given the choice I know which way I would prefer to jump.

 

No, it's not just antibodies.... By now, the scientists and researchers have been able to do actual followup studies in different countries on how people have fared against COVID with various versions/combinations of vaccines.

 

And the results of those real life followups consistently show that the mRNA vaccines are more effective at preventing COVID infection, and also at preventing serious illness and death, than the standalone AZ vaccine.

 

Anyone who's already had two AZ doses definitely should get the third dose as an mRNA shot if available. Moderna has a somewhat better track record of vaccine effectiveness, but Pfizer is not far behind.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

One example below... There also have been other studies done showing that the AZ vaccine's protective effects tend to decline more rapidly post injection than those of the mRNA shots...

 

 

https://www.healthdata.org/covid/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-summary

 

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3949410

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 hours ago, jetboi said:

And, in a statement released on 11 January, the World Health Organization warned that “a vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable”.

Key term there is repeated doses "of the original vaccine composition."

 

mRNA vaccines have a different composition from the different type used in the AZ vaccines, which may well be part of the reason that they're the recommended booster shot on top of original AZ vaccination.

 

The full context of what you quoted from the WHO:

 

"With near- and medium-term supply of the available vaccines, the need for equity in access to vaccines across countries to achieve global public health goals, programmatic considerations including vaccine demand, and evolution of the virus, a vaccination strategy based on repeated booster doses of the original vaccine composition is unlikely to be appropriate or sustainable. 

 

Composition of current and future COVID-19 vaccines

The TAG-CO-VAC considers that COVID-19 vaccines that have high impact on prevention of infection and transmission, in addition to the prevention of severe disease and death, are needed and should be developed. Until such vaccines are available, and as the SARS-CoV-2 virus evolves, the composition of current COVID-19 vaccines may need to be updated, to ensure that COVID-19 vaccines continue to provide WHO-recommended levels of protection against infection and disease[4] by VOCs, including Omicron and future variants."

 

https://www.who.int/news/item/11-01-2022-interim-statement-on-covid-19-vaccines-in-the-context-of-the-circulation-of-the-omicron-sars-cov-2-variant-from-the-who-technical-advisory-group-on-covid-19-vaccine-composition#.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Meanwhile, China is trying hard to get into the mRNA vaccine business:

 

China's Walvax says has most participants for large mRNA COVID vaccine trial

 

"BEIJING, Jan 27 (Reuters) - China's Walvax Biotechnology (300142.SZ) has recruited most of the 28,000 participants needed for a large clinical trial of its mRNA COVID-19 vaccine candidate, a senior company official said on Thursday.

 

China has yet to approve a Chinese vaccine of the novel messenger RNA (mRNA) technology and has yet to import a foreign mRNA vaccine."

 

And why are they trying to get into the mRNA vaccine business?

 

"The issue has become more urgent as studies have shown China's most frequently used shots from Sinovac and Sinopharm are less effective against the highly contagious Omicron than against some previous variants."