Thai Elite visa after a volunteer visa. (denied ?)

[DodgerRodger]

It seems that in recent months the policy on what past visa history is unacceptable for getting the Thailand Elite visa  has evolved.  Here is a copy of the text I received from Thailand Elite when my application was approved last week:-

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------         
****PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THE PAYMENT**** If you fall under the following conditions:       
- Please check if the entry stamp permission on your passport, If you have an outstanding overstayed record on your current stay, you will not be able to obtain a Thailand Elite visa under any circumstances.        
- Please check if you have a history or currently hold a Non-Immigrant type O (Volunteer), you will not be able to obtain a Thailand Elite visa under any circumstances.        
- Please check if you hold a Non-Immigrant MT (Medical Treatment) without the patient reports from the hospital, the medical certificate, and a Non-Immigrant ED* (an education visa without an official document from the Office of Basic Educational Commission: OBEC), you will not be able to obtain a Thailand Elite visa under any circumstances.        
Once again, if you fall under the condition above Thailand Privilege Card Company Limited company reserve the right not to refund the membership fee under any circumstances.         
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------         

[richard_smith237]

12 minutes ago, DodgerRodger said:

It seems that in recent months the policy on what past visa history is unacceptable for getting the Thailand Elite visa  has evolved.  Here is a copy of the text I received from Thailand Elite when my application was approved last week:-

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------         
****PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THE PAYMENT**** If you fall under the following conditions:       
- Please check if the entry stamp permission on your passport, If you have an outstanding overstayed record on your current stay, you will not be able to obtain a Thailand Elite visa under any circumstances.        
- Please check if you have a history or currently hold a Non-Immigrant type O (Volunteer), you will not be able to obtain a Thailand Elite visa under any circumstances.        
- Please check if you hold a Non-Immigrant MT (Medical Treatment) without the patient reports from the hospital, the medical certificate, and a Non-Immigrant ED* (an education visa without an official document from the Office of Basic Educational Commission: OBEC), you will not be able to obtain a Thailand Elite visa under any circumstances.        
Once again, if you fall under the condition above Thailand Privilege Card Company Limited company reserve the right not to refund the membership fee under any circumstances.         
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------         

Wow... thats brutal... 

 

It seems that Immigration are preventing anyone who has used a ‘visa loophole’ with an Ed visa, medical visa with adequate proof of legitimacy (i.e. visas obtained through an agent) from getting the Elite Visa.

 

Is this a sign that Immigration are closing in on these types of agent operations ? (I always thought these were an ‘immigration drivers’ racket and they profit from this). 

[dbszin]

38 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Wow... thats brutal... 

 

It seems that Immigration are preventing anyone who has used a ‘visa loophole’ with an Ed visa, medical visa with adequate proof of legitimacy (i.e. visas obtained through an agent) from getting the Elite Visa.

 

Is this a sign that Immigration are closing in on these types of agent operations ? (I always thought these were an ‘immigration drivers’ racket and they profit from this). 

Yeah. But you would think they would want 600k THB and to have these people legitimately. I have no criminal record. Just a history of volunteer visa. I bought this from a proper agent during covid when the government had not announced any covid extension. Otherwise I would have been on overstay. It is what it is. 

[2 is 1]

1 hour ago, DodgerRodger said:

- Please check if the entry stamp permission on your passport, If you have an outstanding overstayed record on your current stay, you will not be able to obtain a Thailand Elite visa under any circumstances. 

So they decide how much is "outstanding"! Maybe need get accurate info before pay any money to them, meaning in situation when you have even 1 day overstay! Or can loose 600k bth or more.

[mrmagyar]

16 minutes ago, dbszin said:

Yeah. But you would think they would want 600k THB and to have these people legitimately. I have no criminal record. Just a history of volunteer visa. I bought this from a proper agent during covid when the government had not announced any covid extension. Otherwise I would have been on overstay. It is what it is. 

I'm in exactly the same position here.

 

Not be a moaning farang about it, but it does seem particularly harsh. The sole reason for buying the volunteer visa was to avoid overstaying and potentially harming my record for future visits. I was trying to get the elite approval at the time but it didn't arrive fast enough before the end of September deadline.

 

Those that were willing to overstay were then rewarded with an extension that was announced two days after the deadline.

 

Much as I understand that some think we deserve all we get for the 'shady visa', it was a particularly complex and nuanced time and the options were few for those that didn't want to go back to a covid ravaged home country. It felt for all the world that we were being pushed into these shady visas at the time.

[dbszin]

1 hour ago, mrmagyar said:

I'm in exactly the same position here.

 

Not be a moaning farang about it, but it does seem particularly harsh. The sole reason for buying the volunteer visa was to avoid overstaying and potentially harming my record for future visits. I was trying to get the elite approval at the time but it didn't arrive fast enough before the end of September deadline.

 

Those that were willing to overstay were then rewarded with an extension that was announced two days after the deadline.

 

Much as I understand that some think we deserve all we get for the 'shady visa', it was a particularly complex and nuanced time and the options were few for those that didn't want to go back to a covid ravaged home country. It felt for all the world that we were being pushed into these shady visas at the time.

Exactly. What is your plan now?

[thanaka]

13 hours ago, mrmagyar said:

I'm in exactly the same position here.

 

Not be a moaning farang about it, but it does seem particularly harsh. The sole reason for buying the volunteer visa was to avoid overstaying and potentially harming my record for future visits. I was trying to get the elite approval at the time but it didn't arrive fast enough before the end of September deadline.

 

Those that were willing to overstay were then rewarded with an extension that was announced two days after the deadline.

 

Much as I understand that some think we deserve all we get for the 'shady visa', it was a particularly complex and nuanced time and the options were few for those that didn't want to go back to a covid ravaged home country. It felt for all the world that we were being pushed into these shady visas at the time.

I'm in the exact same spot. I was on ED visa where I was (legitimately) learning Thai and attending school. I even had to go to the provincial school ministry (or however thats called) where I was tested in reading, writing and speaking Thai to get approved to the next level.

 

I passed the test but could never get the visa for the next level (which I already paid for), because I couldn't leave the country at that time due to covid. My visa expired the exact month where the Thai government couldn't decide on what to do with all the foreigners where everyone went on overstay and got a free visa afterwards when the government realized they had hundreds of thousands of foreigners still here. 

 

I always tried to do things correctly here so I didn't want to go on overstay, that's when I started using an agent. Had I just sat on my lazy bum I would have not only gotten free visas (that's when covid extension were introduced), but i wouldn't have these kind of problems right now. 

 

That being said, I was also rejected at Elite visa. This situation sucks and I also don't know what to do.

[mrmagyar]

Ok well that's 3 of us in the same position here.

 

I wonder how many more there are.

[ThomasThBKK]

17 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Wow... thats brutal... 

 

It seems that Immigration are preventing anyone who has used a ‘visa loophole’ with an Ed visa, medical visa with adequate proof of legitimacy (i.e. visas obtained through an agent) from getting the Elite Visa.

 

Is this a sign that Immigration are closing in on these types of agent operations ? (I always thought these were an ‘immigration drivers’ racket and they profit from this). 

First i thought this might have something to do with certain unwelcome NGOs here that use volunteer visas and them not wanting "these" people here.

 

But now it def. seems like they have a problem with people that use visa-loopholes...

 

Personally i think they are super over the top, if they had such a big issue with these guys they wouldn't be in thailand.... 

[MajorTom]

17 hours ago, DodgerRodger said:

It seems that in recent months the policy on what past visa history is unacceptable for getting the Thailand Elite visa  has evolved.  Here is a copy of the text I received from Thailand Elite when my application was approved last week:-

So this sounds like you can get approved, make the payment and then denied again if you have any history of agent volunteer, ED or medical visas? What is the point of document approval before payment then?

[mrmagyar]

19 minutes ago, MajorTom said:

So this sounds like you can get approved, make the payment and then denied again if you have any history of agent volunteer, ED or medical visas? What is the point of document approval before payment then?

Yeh, very good point.

Although I don't suspect that it is a deliberate scam and I have to highly doubt that they would actually refuse to refund the fee in the event of denial at the last stage, it doesn't read well does it.

[Dart12]

On 2/12/2022 at 8:01 PM, whizzergo said:

I have experience with this to the extent that I have been told exactly the same thing (more or less) directly from Thai Elite staff.

 

Well. The Thai Elite staff actually implied that the problem would found when trying to re-enter the country with this volunteer visa in my passport. They suggest that the problem is/will be with immigration, not with Thai Elite.

 

The exact wording from Thai Elite: 
"Since we have been informed that our applicants who obtained a volunteer visa and came back to Thailand with Tourist visa, they were denied to enter Thailand with Thai Immigration’ s reason. Therefore, we would like to suggest you that you may have to leave Thailand go back to your home country, then change a new passport and come back with a single-entry Tourist Visa, Visa on Arrival and Exempted Tourist Visa."

 

I made a thread several months back to check the validity of their claim: 

 

It does seem painfully unnecessary and pathetic to have to get a new passport when that clearly doesn't erase the fact that we were once on the volunteer visa. But this post makes me thing that it might be the only option.

I have heard more than a few cases of having trouble getting back in if a volunteer visa is on your passport.

for those saying they will always know you had one, even if you get a new passport...

Let's be honest, most aren't doing anything beyond flipping thru your book when they stamp you.  they are not checking you online.  

Getting the new passport makes it so you don' t flaunt it in their face.

And yes, the fact they are villifying people that got those when the gov PUSHED people to get ONLY a long term visa if they needed to stay near the early stages of the pandemic...this is very harsh.  Of course, they then continued with cheap covid visas for 2 years and the volunteer visa buyers who did what the gov told them, and was really only option offered...are being hurt by it.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

But now it def. seems like they have a problem with people that use visa-loopholes...

Call me a cynic, but I think it is much more likely that the senior officials in Immigration are pressuring Thailand Elite for a (bigger) cut of the Elite membership fee. Those with a problem should wait a few months, and then contact Thailand Elite to see if their dispute with Immigration has been resolved.

[thanaka]

1 hour ago, mrmagyar said:

Ok well that's 3 of us in the same position here.

 

I wonder how many more there are.

I think there's a lot of us. I found a lot of information on various expat facebook groups. Some regarding the elite application but most about entry problems with a volunteer visa history. I do know of two people who could enter the country again after getting a new passport, but I still wonder if people with a volunteer visa history are now blocked from all sorts of non-o visas or if it's "just" Elite visas

[Dart12]

4 hours ago, thanaka said:

I'm in the exact same spot. I was on ED visa where I was (legitimately) learning Thai and attending school. I even had to go to the provincial school ministry (or however thats called) where I was tested in reading, writing and speaking Thai to get approved to the next level.

 

I passed the test but could never get the visa for the next level (which I already paid for), because I couldn't leave the country at that time due to covid. My visa expired the exact month where the Thai government couldn't decide on what to do with all the foreigners where everyone went on overstay and got a free visa afterwards when the government realized they had hundreds of thousands of foreigners still here. 

 

I always tried to do things correctly here so I didn't want to go on overstay, that's when I started using an agent. Had I just sat on my lazy bum I would have not only gotten free visas (that's when covid extension were introduced), but i wouldn't have these kind of problems right now. 

 

That being said, I was also rejected at Elite visa. This situation sucks and I also don't know what to do.

They are also punishing ED visa holders the same way as volunteer visa holders?

[thanaka]

1 minute ago, Dart12 said:

They are also punishing ED visa holders the same way as volunteer visa holders?

Not sure what you mean. Those two are unrelated (at least in my case)

[MajorTom]

14 minutes ago, thanaka said:

but I still wonder if people with a volunteer visa history are now blocked from all sorts of non-o visas or if it's "just" Elite visas

I think just Elite. I was able to get a multiple non-o after the volunteer and have left and returned several times without any issues. I did get a new passport though, not sure if that makes any difference.

[Dart12]

Are they also preventing people from getting marriage or retirement visas if they had a past volunteer or edu visa?  or is this strictly stopping people from getting ELITE?

Side question:

People keep saying "go back to your home country and get a new passport".   Is there any reason to just not go to any Embassy of my country and get the new Passport?  Trip to cambodia is infinitely cheaper than $1700 roundtrip tickets and lodging in the USA for 6 weeks or whatever the current Turn around time is to get a new one.

I would be getting it to clear my volunteer visa (and I'm low on pages anyways)

**I did not say go to embassy in Thailand because one of the agents I've talked to said do NOT get the new passport there as it's more likely to cause me issues with new visas.  She at first recommended Thailand but her source corrected her and said do NOT go to my embassy in Thailand for new book.

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, Dart12 said:

Are they also preventing people from getting marriage or retirement visas if they had a past volunteer or edu visa?  or is this strictly stopping people from getting ELITE?

Side question:

People keep saying "go back to your home country and get a new passport".   Is there any reason to just not go to any Embassy of my country and get the new Passport?  Trip to cambodia is infinitely cheaper than $1700 roundtrip tickets and lodging in the USA for 6 weeks or whatever the current Turn around time is to get a new one.

I would be getting it to clear my volunteer visa (and I'm low on pages anyways)

**I did not say go to embassy in Thailand because one of the agents I've talked to said do NOT get the new passport there as it's more likely to cause me issues with new visas.  She at first recommended Thailand but her source corrected her and said do NOT go to my embassy in Thailand for new book.

A new passport will not help anymore. The immigration system is ow all computerized and your information will be cross referenced. 

[Dart12]

30 minutes ago, thanaka said:

Not sure what you mean. Those two are unrelated (at least in my case)

yes.  everyone else saying they having problems getting elite visa or back in because of volunteer.

You said you had a problem because of your EDU visa ?  is that correct

?

[MajorTom]

3 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

Are they also preventing people from getting marriage or retirement visas if they had a past volunteer or edu visa?  or is this strictly stopping people from getting ELITE?

I was denied marriage extension when still on the volunteer non-o entry. However immigration told me i would be fine if i left and came back visa-exempt and applied again. I never bothered to try, since i got a multiple o-visa from an embassy instead.

[thanaka]

1 minute ago, Dart12 said:

yes.  everyone else saying they having problems getting elite visa or back in because of volunteer.

You said you had a problem because of your EDU visa ?  is that correct

?

To extend my education visa I would have had to leave the country. I couldn't because all borders were shut due to covid. The government didn't propose any solution for the hundreds of thousands of foreigners in the country in similar situations, therefore many started using agents. It's unrelated to the denial for the Elite visa, at least as far as I know.

[Dart12]

4 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

A new passport will not help anymore. The immigration system is ow all computerized and your information will be cross referenced. 

It won't help which issue?  Are you saying the volunteer will block a marriage and a retirement visa application?

Also...idk.  Even in this thread people are saying after getting new passport not having issues.  It may be on record, but I don' t think they are looking at records when stamping visas in the books.  

But I'm honestly just trying to gather testimonials of it working or not working from people actually doing it.

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, Dart12 said:

It won't help which issue?  Are you saying the volunteer will block a marriage and a retirement visa application?

Also...idk.  Even in this thread people are saying after getting new passport not having issues.  It may be on record, but I don' t think they are looking at records when stamping visas in the books.  

But I'm honestly just trying to gather testimonials of it working or not working from people actually doing it.

Getting a new passport will not change anything about what's in your prior passport. They can see in the system all of your prior entries and exits and which visa they were on. In the past you could do the new passport and enter with a clean history....

[thanaka]

4 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Getting a new passport will not change anything about what's in your prior passport. They can see in the system all of your prior entries and exits and which visa they were on. In the past you could do the new passport and enter with a clean history....

You are 100% correct but they're probably less likely to check up on someone with a clean passport than someone with a passport full of Thailand stamps. I know of two people who were denied entry on the volunteer visa but got in without any problems when they tried it again a few months later with a new passport.

 

But you are correct if they already have suspicion they can check up on someones past entries, a new passport won't help. A new one may just reduce the inclination to do so

[Dart12]

1 minute ago, MajorTom said:

I was denied marriage extension when still on the volunteer non-o entry. However immigration told me i would be fine if i left and came back visa-exempt and applied again. I never bothered to try, since i got a multiple o-visa from an embassy instead.

That is so odd. But that's good news on both fronts about being able to get new visa and stay here.

[mrmagyar]

18 minutes ago, thanaka said:

You are 100% correct but they're probably less likely to check up on someone with a clean passport than someone with a passport full of Thailand stamps. I know of two people who were denied entry on the volunteer visa but got in without any problems when they tried it again a few months later with a new passport.

 

But you are correct if they already have suspicion they can check up on someones past entries, a new passport won't help. A new one may just reduce the inclination to do so

I was one of these too. 

 

But this doesn't bode well for getting any future visa's.

 

If the only reason we got on is because the new passport meant they 'didn't bother' check past history that's really not a good sign.

[DodgerRodger]

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

A new passport will not help anymore. The immigration system is ow all computerized and your information will be cross referenced. 

I totally agree with this.  It is my understanding that the first thing the immigration officer does at point of entry is to scan the data code on your passport photo page.  Whilst this may not contain data relating to a previous passport, the Immigration data base will throw up any past records of a person with the identical name, date of birth, and nationality.

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, DodgerRodger said:

I totally agree with this.  It is my understanding that the first thing the immigration officer does at point of entry is to scan the data code on your passport photo page.  Whilst this may not contain data relating to a previous passport, the Immigration data base will throw up any past records of a person with the identical name, date of birth, and nationality.

Exactly what happened when I returned with my new passport this past February, of course I had my old one with the Extension of stay in it and the re-entry permit which was still valid, but the I/O still pulled up everything on the computer and questioned all of my prior in and outs and my 4 different types of Visas used over the past years as he thumbed through the passport and matched up the entries.  He was also questioning the extra pages that I had added back in 2014 to my passport and wondered why Laos added a Visa to the rear page of the passport if I had room.  I had to have him look at the date on the Visa and the date stamped on the new page additions done by the embassy here in Bangkok.  After shaking his head he had to have the Supervisor come over and review the information, and after another 10 minutes they sent me through and told me to get to my immigration office ASAP and have my stamps transferred.  Had I just entered on a 30 day exempt, I really have to wonder how much more time I would have spent with the I/O.  I had to laugh as I left the que and then remembered when I had left in January to head back to the US, they pulled me out of line and inspected my soon to be expiring passport, 6 months and 20 days left on it before expiry.  I had to show them my appointment in San Francisco after my arrival in the US to renew my passport on an emergency appointment.  Why so much interest in a person leaving the country and returning to their country of origin.

[Dart12]

3 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Exactly what happened when I returned with my new passport this past February, of course I had my old one with the Extension of stay in it and the re-entry permit which was still valid, but the I/O still pulled up everything on the computer and questioned all of my prior in and outs and my 4 different types of Visas used over the past years as he thumbed through the passport and matched up the entries.  He was also questioning the extra pages that I had added back in 2014 to my passport and wondered why Laos added a Visa to the rear page of the passport if I had room.  I had to have him look at the date on the Visa and the date stamped on the new page additions done by the embassy here in Bangkok.  After shaking his head he had to have the Supervisor come over and review the information, and after another 10 minutes they sent me through and told me to get to my immigration office ASAP and have my stamps transferred.  Had I just entered on a 30 day exempt, I really have to wonder how much more time I would have spent with the I/O.  I had to laugh as I left the que and then remembered when I had left in January to head back to the US, they pulled me out of line and inspected my soon to be expiring passport, 6 months and 20 days left on it before expiry.  I had to show them my appointment in San Francisco after my arrival in the US to renew my passport on an emergency appointment.  Why so much interest in a person leaving the country and returning to their country of origin.

Can we get him to pay us extra money?  I'm looking and looking.  Can't see something yet.

Let me get my supervisor, he's better at finding a reason to detain unless you pay an expidited fee...