Opinion: Don’t go down the path of vaccine mandates, rather show anti-vaxxers for who they really are

[patongphil]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

Wow, you really don’t understand probabilities, do you?

 

Almost a million dead from Covid in the US now. If you can reduce your risk of joining them by getting vaccinated, I would suggest you do so.

You mean if I get vaccinated I will reduce my risk of dying in the US?

[Danderman123]

2 minutes ago, patongphil said:

You mean if I get vaccinated I will reduce my risk of dying in the US?

If you get vaccinated, you will significantly reduce your risk of dying from Covid, wherever you are. 

[johnnybangkok]

37 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I'm going to disagree with that line of thought, and studies stating such.  AND THAT'S JUST MY OPINION, which I may or may not be wrong about.

 

My thinking and why I disagree, taking Omocron as an example.  Many don't know they have or symptoms are so minor, don't bother seeing a doc or being tested.  So how can they say, the vaccine has protected those folks from being infected, if they became infected, but simply never got tested.

You are welcome to your own opinion. You're just not welcome to your own facts.

 

The facts are that vaccinated people are much less likely to get infected in the first place (about 40% less) but more importantly -

 

"In the period July to December 2021, the age-adjusted risk of death involving coronavirus (COVID-19) was 93.4% lower for people who had received a third dose, or booster, at least 21 days ago compared with unvaccinated people. In the period July to December 2021, the age-adjusted risk of death involving COVID-19 was 81.2% lower for people who had received a second dose at least 21 days ago compared with unvaccinated people; for January to June 2021, this was 99.5% lower" 

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween1januaryand31december2021

 

People with your opinion are just dragging this whole thing out. This selfish 'I'm all right Jack so <deleted> the rest of you' attitude means more chance of the virus mutating and evolving into something even worse than we've seen. This is also not taking into account literally the millions of people who can't be vaccinated because they are immunocompromised. That includes people recovering from cancer, those with lung, kidney or liver disease, those suffering from cystic fibrosis or similar debilitating diseases.

 

When we take part in a civilised society we also accept there is a contract to look after each other; we see this with traffic laws, anti-social behaviour laws and the fact you can't go around robbing or murdering people yet for some reason you think you are exempt from these rules because you've done 5 minutes research on Google and are only looking out for yourself. 

 

Ok fine. If that's what you want then so be it. But you should also be prepared to live with the consequences of your choices by not being able to travel, change jobs (most employers including myself are now insisting on only hiring vaxxed people) getting into restaurants/bars/ nightclubs and generally being a social pariah. If you're cool with that then great, enjoy your self-imposed exile as the rest of society gets on with being part of the solution rather than part of the problem.   

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

I can agree with those 2 statements.  I know the risk of beng unvax'd & accept that.

 

Why can't you accept my choice, as it affects you in no way what so ever.  I carry the same risk of infected you, as a vaccinated person.  We both can get & transmit.

 

If everyone was vaccinated, then only vaccated people would be getting & transmitting the virus.  Not seeing any difference, you would stll be at risk.

This is part of the problem. Those who do not wish to get vaccinated seem to lack the ability to comprehend a bigger picture and present their argument on an individual level. 

 

They (anti-covid-vaxxers) think on the individual level and ignore the aggregate benefit of vaccination to society on a whole. 

 

So you, KhunLA, do not present the same risk, you present a greater risk to the community, because when there are enough people like you who do not wish to get vaccinated there is a higher risk of continued transmission, there is a higher risk you and those like you are contagious for longer periods of time and thus a higher risk of contributing towards the continued spread, and then there is the higher risk that you would face more serious symptoms with a higher risk of using up community health facilities etc etc.. 

 

The argument that the unvaccinated face the same risk of contracting Covid-19 as vaccinated individuals is wrong. 

The argument that the unvaccinated present the same risk of contributing towards the spread Covid-19 as vaccinated individuals is wrong. 

 

The argument that a vaccinated person presents the same risk profile to a community is wrong.

 

Such anti-covid-vax statements are often unwittingly flawed and presented from the myopic viewpoint of the self-centred, that is of course not only wrong its not very smart.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tropicalevo]

4 hours ago, TooMuchTime said:

LMAO hope you guys enjoy your quarterly boosters.

 

Someone has to make sure Pfizer reaches their quarterly sales target.

 

No better feeling than being able to make my own health decisions based off my risk profile.

Isn't that what Typhoid Mary said?

[userabcd]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

I guess you are not paying attention to current events.

 

The world is suffering the worst plague in 100 years.  The more people who vaccinate, the greater the chance to end the epidemic before the virus mutates again, this time into a more lethal form. You can help stop this plague by vaccinating.

Be careful of the acorns.

[Blumpie]

Seeing as we're all whipping ours out and showing everyone how big ours is, I'll barf out an opinion that nobody will like.

It's sad that people take the bait and think that they will talk an antivaxxer down or show them a thing or two online.  Pathetic actually.  It's what they want and you give them what they want.  

I could care less if a person gets vaccinated or not.  Or croaks because they didn't.  Honest to god, I just don't care or give a damn.  

Keep arguing internet warriors.  

[KhunLA]

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

This is part of the problem. Those who do not wish to get vaccinated seem to lack the ability to comprehend a bigger picture and present their argument on an individual level. 

 

They (anti-covid-vaxxers) think on the individual level and ignore the aggregate benefit of vaccination to society on a whole. 

 

So you, KhunLA, do not present the same risk, you present a greater risk to the community, because when there are enough people like you who do not wish to get vaccinated there is a higher risk of continued transmission, there is a higher risk you and those like you are contagious for longer periods of time and thus a higher risk of contributing towards the continued spread, and then there is the higher risk that you would face more serious symptoms with a higher risk of using up community health facilities etc etc.. 

 

The argument that the unvaccinated face the same risk of contracting Covid-19 as vaccinated individuals is wrong. 

The argument that the unvaccinated present the same risk of contributing towards the spread Covid-19 as vaccinated individuals is wrong. 

 

The argument that a vaccinated person presents the same risk profile to a community is wrong.

 

Such anti-covid-vax statements are often unwittingly flawed and presented from the myopic viewpoint of the self-centred, that is of course not only wrong its not very smart.

Apparently my actions and or inactions, have not put anyone at risk, inclusive of myself.  And as this 'situation' winds down to a big nothing.   I guess I made the right decisions for myself and everyone else.  And will continue with such, since so successful in the past.

 

Apparently much more succesful than the million of other folks who have caught & spread the virus.

My choice, and so far, beneficial to everyone I've needed to come in contact wth.

 

Something, most on this forum, not me, or anyone I know or come in contact with, fail to realize.

 

Y'all have a nice day

[KhunLA]

44 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

You're just not welcome to your own facts.

At no point did I state them as facts, going out of the way to point out, they are my opinions, right or wrong.

 

Trying to stay off that vacation / restricted posting thingy.  Seem to be more successful keeping away from C19 than posting restrictions ... ????

[EVENKEEL]

I got the vaxx for me and mine, nobody else. The argument to get vaxxed for the sake of others (outside my family circle) is stupid beyond comprehension. 

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

survival rate 99.6

'Survival rate' is a silly phrase, and a number you appear not to grasp.... your link points to mortality figures!

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Danderman123 said:

Because you believe that viral mutations tend to be less lethal. Like Delta was less lethal than Alpha. 

All bets are off if the next variant is more lethal. 

I know you read it, hard to miss (Delta aside) but yet, your reply implies differently.

 

And why it is hard to have an intelligent debate about anything with so many here.  Comments like that, warrant adding people to my ever growing ignore list.  

 

Sad, because some folks' different thoughts and opinions are quite good, well debated and worth a read ...

... until they're not.

Edited February 24, 2022 by KhunLA

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[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Virtue signal much?

Explain to me why I should care about or respect you or anyone else I don't know?

You're just another old white middle guy, the whole world hates you and disrespects you.

As for world crises, all invented by those that own and control everything, nothing to do with me or you.

An accusation of virtue signalling by someone who is highlighting that they have none. 

 

Why should you care about or respect anyone you don’t know ? that explains a lot.

 

You have clearly highlighted that you care about or respect no one, perhaps until they’ve earned it. 

Whereas others, respect and care about everyone until they’ve proven they are undeserving.

 

The community on a whole deserves our efforts to support it and keep it safe. You may not think so, but fortunately you are in the minority. 

 

 

[cdemundo]

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Depends on the expat.

I'm in the top 0.1% of the worlds intelligence.

If I were only average (or less), I might need more input from my betters.

 

Sadly, many of the 'lesser ability' posters assume everyone is at the same level as themselves.

 

"I'm in the top 0.1% of the worlds intelligence."

 

don't forget we have read your posts.

[KhunLA]

20 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You have clearly highlighted that you care about or respect no one, perhaps until they’ve earned it. 

You referring to the folks that wish to keep us, silenced, censored, and quaratined away from 'our' right to life, liberty, happinss & freedom, the way we feel we want to live, simply because we have a different opinion ... those folks.

 

Sorry, they haven't earned that care or respect.  I was always taught and found, you get what you give, and vice versa.

Edited February 24, 2022 by KhunLA

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Depends on the expat.

I'm in the top 0.1% of the worlds intelligence.

If I were only average (or less), I might need more input from my betters.

 

Sadly, many of the 'lesser ability' posters assume everyone is at the same level as themselves.

 

Expand  

"I'm in the top 0.1% of the worlds intelligence."

 

don't forget we have read your posts.

Aw gawd..... 

 

Someone who feels compelled to let us know they are intelligent very rarely is.... 

 

Particularly in light of his signature comment... 'When you're dead, you don't know you're dead, the pain is felt by others. Same when you're stupid.'

 

Quite on the mark I’d say !!!! ????

[richard_smith237]

10 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

You referring to the folks that wish to keep us, silenced, censored, and quaratined away from 'our' right to life, liberty & freedom, the way we feel we want to live, simply because we have a different opinion ... those folks.

Don't forget your rights to carry assault rifles...

 

Your self-centred rights ignore the rights of the community....   This is not about removing your voice or your freedoms, you and others who are against the covid-vaccines use the ’taking away our rights, liberty and freedoms’ argument with a strong level of specious disregard for the rights, liberty and freedoms of those around you. 

 

 

If all those who refuse to take the vaccine want to remove themselves from the community and live in isolation thats fine.  However, when 'some' believe it is their right to not to participate in measures to protect the community on a whole I would suggest they are not deserving of the rights they hold so valuable. 

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Sorry, they haven't earned that care or respect.  I was always taught and found, you get what you give, and vice versa.

 

So you expect people treat you without respect or care because you haven’t yet earned that from them ?

 

 

[patongphil]

2 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

If you get vaccinated, you will significantly reduce your risk of dying from Covid, wherever you are. 

But I have never been to the US and have no intention of going there.

[userabcd]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

I guess you are not paying attention to current events.

 

The world is suffering the worst plague in 100 years.  The more people who vaccinate, the greater the chance to end the epidemic before the virus mutates again, this time into a more lethal form. You can help stop this plague by vaccinating.

Hardly the plague as is referred to above.

 

extract from an online article as to what the plague is:

''Plague is a disease that affects humans and other mammals. It is caused by the bacterium, Yersinia pestis. Humans usually get plague after being bitten by a rodent flea that is carrying the plague bacterium or by handling an animal infected with plague. Plague is infamous for killing millions of people in Europe during the Middle Ages. Today, modern antibiotics are effective in treating plague. Without prompt treatment, the disease can cause serious illness or death. Presently, human plague infections continue to occur in rural areas in the western United States, but significantly more cases occur in parts of Africa and Asia.''

[userabcd]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

You are posting an old tired cliche.

 

The vaccinated are far less likely to be infected, and when infected, have a much shorter infectious period.

 

You are doing your best to avoid reality: vaccination saves lives.

Worldwide there seems also to be over 1 million road accident deaths per annum.

 

Still waiting for the vaccine to prevent those deaths, but people are still allowed to be free to use the roads.

[onekoolguy]

When it comes to our own health care it really does pay to learn about your problem or potential problem and decide on the best course of action or non-action.

Simply taking some ones advise without your own research can be very dangerous. 

For instance: My ex-wife went to the doctor due to an occasional numb arm. She takes Doctors advise as gospel and does everything they recommend. So they started in on her to find the problem with the numb arm?  Over the last 3 years she has had over 17 surgeries to clear lightly clogged arteries (under 35%), and many drugs one of which wiped out her kidneys. She was on dialysis 3 times a week for 2 years waiting for a transplant. During that time many of the above surgeries were for her arm trying to get the vein to work for the Dialysis. Never could get it right. Recently, out of the blue. her kidneys started working again! No more dialysis, but the thing in her arm still requires more surgeries as she said now if not fixed she could lose the arm!

Oh, the numb arm? It just went away by itself!

[Bkk Brian]

25 minutes ago, userabcd said:

Worldwide there seems also to be over 1 million road accident deaths per annum.

 

Still waiting for the vaccine to prevent those deaths, but people are still allowed to be free to use the roads.

However in most countries in the world they must wear a seat belt or wear helmets, have insurance, road traffic rules and regulations, plenty of mandates for them. How many more would die without those?

 

 

[chilly07]

Quite happy for Antivaxers to kill themselves as it increases vaccine availability for others! Only problem is that they develop mutations for others! Omicron is the result of a mutation developed in unvaccinated individuals.

By the way can anybody direct me to a booster which doesn't involve extensive queueing in Pattaya? Have purchased Moderna via BPH but still waiting for appointments?

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

and then they delete the good posts    haha     hey look what i found today :   Misinformation ?  heck if i know ,,,,, 

 

 

Thanks, its because of posters such as you putting out charts taken from the statistics without the necessary context and basic maths that it has resulted in this:

 

Anti-vax 'misinformation' forces official block on Scots Covid deaths data

PHS has stated that the data in the report was never to be used as a measure of vaccine effectiveness but it is now aware of "inappropriate use and misinterpretation of the data when taken in isolation without fully understanding the limitations..."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/19932203.anti-vax-misinformation-forces-official-block-scots-covid-deaths-data/

[RocketDog]

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I must just be lucky, as I completely ignored their 'get vccinated' advise.  So I wasn't affected by any vaccine side effects, or need to worry about any unknown long term consequences of the vaccine.  

 

Absolutely nothing changed in my life.

 

And my opinion of "just do it, because they told you to"

 

Thanks. We were all waiting for your opinion.

[chilly07]

31 minutes ago, onekoolguy said:

When it comes to our own health care it really does pay to learn about your problem or potential problem and decide on the best course of action or non-action.

Simply taking some ones advise without your own research can be very dangerous. 

For instance: My ex-wife went to the doctor due to an occasional numb arm. She takes Doctors advise as gospel and does everything they recommend. So they started in on her to find the problem with the numb arm?  Over the last 3 years she has had over 17 surgeries to clear lightly clogged arteries (under 35%), and many drugs one of which wiped out her kidneys. She was on dialysis 3 times a week for 2 years waiting for a transplant. During that time many of the above surgeries were for her arm trying to get the vein to work for the Dialysis. Never could get it right. Recently, out of the blue. her kidneys started working again! No more dialysis, but the thing in her arm still requires more surgeries as she said now if not fixed she could lose the arm!

Oh, the numb arm? It just went away by itself!

Makes you think that the medical profession and big pharmas approach of 'try this and see if it works' is not as effective as the bodies own brilliant powers of recuperation?

[johnnybangkok]

32 minutes ago, userabcd said:

Worldwide there seems also to be over 1 million road accident deaths per annum.

 

Still waiting for the vaccine to prevent those deaths, but people are still allowed to be free to use the roads.

When will people stop wheeling out these ridiculous comparisons. 

 

You are 'free to use the roads' after you sit and pass a driving test, get a liicence and get insurance. Once driving you have to wear a seat belt, stop at red lights, drive under the speed limit, not drink and drive, not text whilst driving and generally don't be an idiot. If you do cause a death from dangerous driving you can be charged with vehicullar manslaughter and serve time if found guilty.

 

I'm guessing you have and do gladly do all of those things but when asked to get a vaccine that greatly reduces your chances of hospilisation/death from Covid and adds to eventual herd immunity that then covers other who are immunocompromised, for some reason that's just a step too far. 

 

Terrible argument. Please try again.

 

[xylophone]

26 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

However in most countries in the world they must wear a seat belt or wear helmets, have insurance, road traffic rules and regulations, plenty of mandates for them. How many more would die without those?

 

 

I remember going along to see the school nurse in the early/mid 50s to get my polio vaccination, and I remember long queues of children waiting to get theirs too, and it was the same with whooping cough and the BCG vaccine, and in my time I have been vaccinated for polio, MMR, TB, yellow fever, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, with gammaglobulin, and with three vaccinations for Covid, not to mention more than five tetanus jabs in my time, so I don't see what all the fuss is about.

 

My recollection of the polio vaccination was that mothers were also queueing with their children to make sure they had the vaccine!

 

In addition, the smallpox vaccine wiped out smallpox, and the polio vaccine almost eradicated polio although it has resurfaced in various Third World countries.

 

To summarise the above and that which you will read below; vaccines save lives.

 

Read on below for more information on this: –

 

The Vaccination Act 1853 made it compulsory for all children born after 1 August 1853 to be vaccinated against smallpox during their first 3 months of life. Parents who failed to get their children vaccinated would be subject to a fine.

 

By the 1860s, two-thirds of babies were vaccinated. As a result, there was a fall in the death rate due to smallpox. Compulsory smallpox vaccination ended in the UK in 1947……

 

The childhood vaccination programme expanded in the NHS era after 1948. Whooping cough (pertussis) and poliomyelitis vaccines were introduced for children in the 1950s, as was BCG for school-leavers. By the 1970s, there were routine vaccinations against measles and tetanus; though routine smallpox vaccination ended in 1971 and BCG in 2005. The current vaccination schedule also includes immunisations against Hib, meningitis A, B, C, W and Y, mumps, rubella and pneumonia.

 

Mandatory vaccinations have been with us for centuries, quietly saving lives – and they're often largely unopposed until something changes………and social media has played a large part in that change by promoting vaccine opposition with disinformation, scare tactics, “Big Pharma” lies, and publications and websites spouting conspiracy theories and vaccination untruths amongst other things.

[TigerandDog]

7 hours ago, sirineou said:

and do you know any doctors that would advice you not to get vaccinated? I mean other that Dr, trump who got his medical degree from trump university. 

and that poor excuse for a human being eventually got vaccinated too.