Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[2 is 1]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Glad you were OK. Maybe they need to add a couple of tubes of KY to the first aid kit?

Hope you manage rest of day! Sorry im not Shakespeare and we normaly speak Finnish in Finland.Its quite common in Finland if you did not know. So if that not get you clear picture English is not my motherland language so sorry if i wipe out your perfect day. You should chance your nickname to inkhorn seems suit to you perfectly. Have nice evening anyway ????

[Hummin]

40 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Yes, you mentioned that and gave us no link to your source. Whereas...

West sends Ukraine heavy weapons amid fighting in Donbas

Western nations say they are dispatching more heavy weaponry and even aircraft to Ukraine as part of an effort to strengthen the country’s military as Russia steps up its attacks in the east.

The Pentagon said Wednesday that the Ukrainian air force has at least 20 more fighter jets available to them after an influx of parts in the last few weeks made repairs possible.

Ukraine has “been given whole helicopters, including helicopters from the United States,” a senior U.S. defense official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity under terms set by the Pentagon.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/20/ukraine-russia-fighter-jets-weapons-war/

It was an article in Norwegian discussing  Norway to send advanced  weapons  in the beginning of the war. 

 

An article I found now.

 

A case study of how wepaons get to Ukraine. It isn not pointing out the education needed for training and service or logistics due to repair and service. We also know russians have problems with logistics, as well raw materials for continue supplying new weapons. 
 

https://www.maritime-executive.com/editorials/logistics-case-study-how-do-weapons-get-to-ukraine

 

Something else to consider is where the weapons finely ends up during the war, and also after the war is finished, but that is secondary at the moment. 

[Rimmer]

Some baiting/bickering posts  have been removed

[Bkk Brian]

Crystal clear definition of US aims here from Austin/Blinken: "weaken Russia" so it can't repeat Ukraine attack vs Eastern Europe; and Ukraine to be a sovereign country able to protect its own territory.

image source

Edited April 25, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[Chris.B]

2 hours ago, Chris.B said:

'Ukrainian missile strikes' hit Russia and blow up oil facilities supplying its troops in Donbas and countries in Europe as flames light up the sky

Fires broke out at the Druzhba Oil Depot and a second facility - thought to be a military base - around 2am in the Russian city of Bryansk, after what is widely suspected to be Ukrainian missile strikes. Images and video from Bryansk - around 70 miles from the Ukraine border - showed two columns of fire lighting up the night sky over the city, which is a key logistical hub supplying Russian forces currently fighting for control of the Donbas region. The Druzhba pipeline also supplies oil to Europe. Kyiv has not commented on the strikes, but it comes after a series of blasts in Russia targeting military facilities that have been credited to Ukraine.

 

Daily Mail

 

It must be embarrassing for Putin that he can't protect his cities, 70 miles inside Russia, from Ukrainian missiles.

 

The once great Superpower is no longer so "Super". Weak army, weak Generals, weak tactics, unreliable weapons and vehicles, weak warships, reliant on mercenaries. Now their troops in Donbass have no fuel, when can we expect the long retreat back to Russia to start? 24 hours, 48 hours maybe 10 days maximum!

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Chris.B

[Bkk Brian]

Here we have one of the major problems with disinformation to the Russian public, after having this thrown at you on a daily basis no wonder some end up believing it. All it does is facilitate hatred and further rapes and executions of innocent Ukraine civilians let alone the rhetoric regards nukes.

 

Russian state TV has historically been viewed as a reflection of thinking within the Kremlin and state-approved discourse The FT's latest investigative report suggests that state TV could also be shaping Putin's views on the war This is important, especially regarding nukes

 

Here's a brief summary of some of the disgusting highlights that are aired on state TV all taken from this source.

 

A pundit argues on state TV that the exits at Azovstal should be sealed off with concrete. Host prefers the idea of capturing Ukrainians and showing them at public markets, allowing anyone to do "whatever they want" to them. The UK is a prime target for a nuclear strike, it has weak defenses and being an Island nation would not impact Europe.

 

During last Friday’s broadcast of 60 Minutes, State Duma deputy Mikhail Delyagin asserted: “Nuclear mushroom may rise over Ukraine, but the NATO flag may not.” Russian state TV propagandists hysterically claim that Russia is willing to pay any price & the conflict could become nuclear: "Our hypersonic weapons are guaranteed to produce a response that is so unpleasant for America: being reduced to radioactive ash"

 

 

[metisdead]

Off topic posts about the Vietnam war and the war in Afghanistan have been removed. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

6 hours ago, Chris.B said:

Try some links to evidence instead of hearsay.

Not quite sure what you mean. If you mean concrete evidence that Putin may not necessarily be in power forever then no, I don't have any - that's not the kind of thing that can be readily proven.

 

If you're referring to the signs of discontent in Russia, well there are plenty of reports of that. The Russian news reporter Marina Ovsyannikova who protested on air is probably the most high profile example, but almost every major news outlet has documented things like the street protests that have occurred (and the arrests that followed).

 

Here's just one article reporting on various examples of dissent.

 

Russian opposition to the invasion is giving Putin cause for alarm

[2 is 1]

The Belarusian railway workers who helped thwart Russia’s attack on Kyiv

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/23/ukraine-belarus-railway-saboteurs-russia/

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Chris.B said:

It must be embarrassing for Putin that he can't protect his cities, 70 miles inside Russia, from Ukrainian missiles.

 

The once great Superpower is no longer so "Super". Weak army, weak Generals, weak tactics, unreliable weapons and vehicles, weak warships, reliant on mercenaries. Now their troops in Donbass have no fuel, when can we expect the long retreat back to Russia to start? 24 hours, 48 hours maybe 10 days maximum!

 

Wrong Russia is not demonstrating there super power capabilitly yet Nato etc be careful.

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Here we have one of the major problems with disinformation to the Russian public, after having this thrown at you on a daily basis no wonder some end up believing it. All it does is facilitate hatred and further rapes and executions of innocent Ukraine civilians let alone the rhetoric regards nukes.

 

Russian state TV has historically been viewed as a reflection of thinking within the Kremlin and state-approved discourse The FT's latest investigative report suggests that state TV could also be shaping Putin's views on the war This is important, especially regarding nukes

 

Here's a brief summary of some of the disgusting highlights that are aired on state TV all taken from this source.

 

A pundit argues on state TV that the exits at Azovstal should be sealed off with concrete. Host prefers the idea of capturing Ukrainians and showing them at public markets, allowing anyone to do "whatever they want" to them. The UK is a prime target for a nuclear strike, it has weak defenses and being an Island nation would not impact Europe.

 

During last Friday’s broadcast of 60 Minutes, State Duma deputy Mikhail Delyagin asserted: “Nuclear mushroom may rise over Ukraine, but the NATO flag may not.” Russian state TV propagandists hysterically claim that Russia is willing to pay any price & the conflict could become nuclear: "Our hypersonic weapons are guaranteed to produce a response that is so unpleasant for America: being reduced to radioactive ash"

 

 

Better luck next time, someone tried to assassinate one of the main Russian state TV pundits...........................????

 

Vladimir Putin said that the FSB prevented an assassination attempt "on one of the famous #Russian TV journalists". The FSB also stated that "during the searches they seized an homemade explosive device, 8 Molotov cocktails, 6 PM pistols, a rifle, an RGD-5 grenade, over 1,000 cartridges, drugs, fake Ukrainian passports, nationalist literature and nationalist paraphernalia."

 

The FSB and Vladimir Putin have accused Ukraine's SBU of trying to kill Rossiya-1 host Vladimir Solovyov Members of a Russian Neo-Nazi group allegedly linked to the plot have been arrested, while Solovyov claims that Zelensky directly orchestrated the plan to kill him. Putin is personally highlighting this case because it backs his argument that Ukraine is a "Nazi regime" that silences critics at home and abroad, and that Ukraine poses a security threat to Russian citizens These two narratives drive Russian public support for the war

 

[Bkk Brian]

Another one of those mysterious fires that have been breaking out across Russia for a few weeks ????

 

17 dead in Russian military research facility fire last week

 

At least 17 people have died in last week’s fire at a Russian military research facility, authorities said Monday.

 

The regional government in Tver, a city about 180 kilometers (112 miles) northwest of Moscow, said that so far only five of the victims had been identified.

 

The research institute was involved in the development of some of the state-of-the-art Russian weapons systems, reportedly including the Iskander missile.

 

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-moscow-8d6c51c812b41454d39c5ce7e0367399?

 

EDIT

aaaaand another one just now:

 

Video Oh no, something seems to be on fire at a Russian airbase in Ussuriysk near (fairly) to Vladivostok. Russia seems to be so unlucky with things catching fire in recent days.

Edited April 25, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Wrong Russia is not demonstrating there super power capabilitly yet Nato etc be careful.

Well, if you mean by that nuclear weapons, sure. But as for its conventional forces, not real impressive. Which stands to reason given the size of the Russian economy, the prevalent corruption and cronyism, and the fact that it's basically a dictatorship.

[Nojohndoe]

30 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Wrong Russia is not demonstrating there super power capabilitly yet Nato etc be careful.

If instead of "super power" the terminology was capacity to wreak massive indiscriminate destruction regardless of target status then that is true. And yes  NATO need be careful not to assume a generalized "right" to precipitate and provoke such that would be of greater global scale in impact! The massive percentage of Nations have expressed sympathy and horror at the rising evidence of humanitarian abuses in the Russia/Ukraine situation while for many that echoes the same same but  marginally different demonstration of mafioso geopolitical attempt in domination that has disrupted any reasonable concept of a normal and peaceful life!. BUT yet have declined to condescend to total accord in condemnation of expressed motivation either way? Is it surprising that the representatives of independent Nations can express alternative opinion, interpretation, perception, geopolitical position ? Or is such a "democratic" ideal to be dismissed in deference to prescribed blind allegiance usually via temptation to accept devious personal advantages ? IMHO is that while many aspirants seeking political  endorsement via  "democratic" principles enforced by one  method or another there is a steady devolution of socially driven reality towards non benevolent autocracy falsely sold !

Putin has embarked on a crusade that is being defended against by an equally disingenous  misrepresentative manipulative antagonistic clique of the self interested.

 

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Nojohndoe said:

If instead of "super power" the terminology was capacity to wreak massive indiscriminate destruction regardless of target status then that is true. And yes  NATO need be careful not to assume a generalized "right" to precipitate and provoke such that would be of greater global scale in impact! The massive percentage of Nations have expressed sympathy and horror at the rising evidence of humanitarian abuses in the Russia/Ukraine situation while for many that echoes the same same but  marginally different demonstration of mafioso geopolitical attempt in domination that has disrupted any reasonable concept of a normal and peaceful life!. BUT yet have declined to condescend to total accord in condemnation of expressed motivation either way? Is it surprising that the representatives of independent Nations can express alternative opinion, interpretation, perception, geopolitical position ? Or is such a "democratic" ideal to be dismissed in deference to prescribed blind allegiance usually via temptation to accept devious personal advantages ? IMHO is that while many aspirants seeking political  endorsement via  "democratic" principles enforced by one  method or another there is a steady devolution of socially driven reality towards non benevolent autocracy falsely sold !

Putin has embarked on a crusade that is being defended against by an equally disingenous  misrepresentative manipulative antagonistic clique of the self interested.

Could you please try to use shorter words? I didn't realise that my English was so poor. I am however, fairly interested in myself.

[placeholder]

34 minutes ago, Nojohndoe said:

If instead of "super power" the terminology was capacity to wreak massive indiscriminate destruction regardless of target status then that is true. And yes  NATO need be careful not to assume a generalized "right" to precipitate and provoke such that would be of greater global scale in impact! The massive percentage of Nations have expressed sympathy and horror at the rising evidence of humanitarian abuses in the Russia/Ukraine situation while for many that echoes the same same but  marginally different demonstration of mafioso geopolitical attempt in domination that has disrupted any reasonable concept of a normal and peaceful life!. BUT yet have declined to condescend to total accord in condemnation of expressed motivation either way? Is it surprising that the representatives of independent Nations can express alternative opinion, interpretation, perception, geopolitical position ? Or is such a "democratic" ideal to be dismissed in deference to prescribed blind allegiance usually via temptation to accept devious personal advantages ? IMHO is that while many aspirants seeking political  endorsement via  "democratic" principles enforced by one  method or another there is a steady devolution of socially driven reality towards non benevolent autocracy falsely sold !

Putin has embarked on a crusade that is being defended against by an equally disingenous  misrepresentative manipulative antagonistic clique of the self interested.

I almost suspect that the author of this is composing a parody of a certain kind of academic argle-bargle. This sentence alone "The massive percentage of Nations have expressed sympathy and horror at the rising evidence of humanitarian abuses in the Russia/Ukraine situation while for many that echoes the same same but  marginally different demonstration of mafioso geopolitical attempt in domination that has disrupted any reasonable concept of a normal and peaceful life!" is almost brilliant in its ridiculousness. I particularly enjoyed "the same but marginally different demonstration of mafioso geopolitical attempt at domination..." 

 

Or maybe it's just the work of a bot created by a mad leftwing professor. It is, in its own dismal way, a remarkable achievement. So many words to say so little.

 

I think  it can be boiled down to this.: "Crimes against humanity are happening in the Ukraine. The countries that are condemning these crimes are guilty of committing them too. If other countries don't want to go along and condemn Russia, that's their right."

 

It is to be noted in nojohndoe's version, no responsibility is assigned to who is committing these horrendous abuses in what he calls, not The Russian Invasion, but rather the "Russia/Ukraine situation". Maybe we can coin a slogan for Russia out of this "Not an invasion Just a situation"

[ozimoron]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I almost suspect that the author of this is composing a parody of a certain kind of academic argle-bargle. This sentence alone "The massive percentage of Nations have expressed sympathy and horror at the rising evidence of humanitarian abuses in the Russia/Ukraine situation while for many that echoes the same same but  marginally different demonstration of mafioso geopolitical attempt in domination that has disrupted any reasonable concept of a normal and peaceful life!" is almost brilliant in its ridiculousness. I particularly enjoyed "the same but marginally different demonstration of mafioso geopolitical attempt at domination..." 

 

Or maybe it's just the work of a bot created by a mad leftwing professor. It is, in its own dismal way, a remarkable achievement. So many words to say so little.

 

I think  it can be boiled down to this.: "Crimes against humanity are happening in the Ukraine. The countries that are condemning these crimes are guilty of committing them too. If other countries don't want to go along and condemn Russia, that's their right."

 

It is to be noted in nojohndoe's version, no responsibility is assigned to who is committing these horrendous abuses in what he calls, not The Russian Invasion, but rather the "Russia/Ukraine situation". Maybe we can coin a slogan for Russia out of this "Not an invasion Just a situation"

It's very much the posting style and trademark of Russian astroturfers. The same style was very common in posts on The Guardian around 2015.

Edited April 25, 2022 by ozimoron

[tgw]

1 hour ago, Nojohndoe said:

If instead of "super power" the terminology was capacity to wreak massive indiscriminate destruction regardless of target status then that is true. And yes  NATO need be careful not to assume a generalized "right" to precipitate and provoke such that would be of greater global scale in impact! The massive percentage of Nations have expressed sympathy and horror at the rising evidence of humanitarian abuses in the Russia/Ukraine situation while for many that echoes the same same but  marginally different demonstration of mafioso geopolitical attempt in domination that has disrupted any reasonable concept of a normal and peaceful life!. BUT yet have declined to condescend to total accord in condemnation of expressed motivation either way? Is it surprising that the representatives of independent Nations can express alternative opinion, interpretation, perception, geopolitical position ? Or is such a "democratic" ideal to be dismissed in deference to prescribed blind allegiance usually via temptation to accept devious personal advantages ? IMHO is that while many aspirants seeking political  endorsement via  "democratic" principles enforced by one  method or another there is a steady devolution of socially driven reality towards non benevolent autocracy falsely sold !

Putin has embarked on a crusade that is being defended against by an equally disingenous  misrepresentative manipulative antagonistic clique of the self interested.

and my deepest regards to Olgino !

[tgw]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

EDIT

aaaaand another one just now:

 

Video Oh no, something seems to be on fire at a Russian airbase in Ussuriysk near (fairly) to Vladivostok. Russia seems to be so unlucky with things catching fire in recent days.

Oh no !

anyway ...

 

[tgw]

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-04-25-22/index.html

 

Kyiv will remove Soviet-era sculpture commemorating "friendship" between Ukrainians and Russians, mayor says 

"This week we will dismantle a bronze sculpture of two workers, erected in 1982 'to commemorate the reunification of Ukraine with Russia,'" Klitschko said. "The eight meters of metal of the so-called 'friendship of two peoples' will be removed from the center of Kyiv."

 

=> smelt it into ammo I say

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, tgw said:

Oh no !

anyway ...

They're just keeping warm. Nothing to see here, move along...

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

It's very much the posting style and trademark of Russian astroturfers. The same style was very common in posts on The Guardian around 2015.

Who, apart from someone like myself with way too much time on my hands, would even bother to decipher such a bizarre linkage of abstractions and try to connect it to reality?

[Virt]

Putins plans really seem to backfire.

 

He wanted less threats from NATO and complained about the expansion of NATO countries, 

and now it seems like Finland and Sweden will apply in the middle of next month ????

 

They both plan to send applications in week 20 according to swedish newspapers.

 

Can't they speed it up a bit?

Like send it May 8 in week 19.

 

The day before the russian victory day on may 9.

 

Putin would hate to see the russian news write about that on the russian victory day.

 

 

[LosLobo]

Netherlands Sends Panzerhaubitze 2000's to Ukraine.
 

Such a gutsy gift for such a small country!

Possibly revenge served cold for a previous unpunished  Russian War Crime.

Namely, the destruction of MH17 and the deaths of 193 Dutch citizens.


 

 

[ozimoron]

16 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

Netherlands Sends Panzerhaubitze 2000's to Ukraine.
 

Such a gutsy gift for such a small country!

Possibly revenge served cold for a previous unpunished  Russian War Crime.

Namely, the destruction of MH17 and the deaths of 193 Dutch citizens.
 

and 38 Australians. Maybe we should send all our useless Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They based them in Darwin for a while but it was too hot and the aircon systems couldn't handle the heat.

[ozimoron]

Russia stripped of hosting figure skating Grand Prix event

 

However, Russia could still field candidates at the ISU’s presidential elections in June at a congress in Phuket, Thailand.

 

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kamila-valieva-sports-europe-switzerland-99985187431a0c8ad6e9ece76d963bc4

[Bkk Brian]

Blinken in Kyiv: 'Russia Is Failing, Ukraine Is Succeeding'

 

 

[RJRS1301]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

and 38 Australians. Maybe we should send all our useless Leopard tanks to Ukraine. They based them in Darwin for a while but it was too hot and the aircon systems couldn't handle the heat.

Under the command of Major Disaster Morrison??

 

[Bkk Brian]

12 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Better luck next time, someone tried to assassinate one of the main Russian state TV pundits...........................????

 

Vladimir Putin said that the FSB prevented an assassination attempt "on one of the famous #Russian TV journalists". The FSB also stated that "during the searches they seized an homemade explosive device, 8 Molotov cocktails, 6 PM pistols, a rifle, an RGD-5 grenade, over 1,000 cartridges, drugs, fake Ukrainian passports, nationalist literature and nationalist paraphernalia."

 

The FSB and Vladimir Putin have accused Ukraine's SBU of trying to kill Rossiya-1 host Vladimir Solovyov Members of a Russian Neo-Nazi group allegedly linked to the plot have been arrested, while Solovyov claims that Zelensky directly orchestrated the plan to kill him. Putin is personally highlighting this case because it backs his argument that Ukraine is a "Nazi regime" that silences critics at home and abroad, and that Ukraine poses a security threat to Russian citizens These two narratives drive Russian public support for the war

 

Its becoming clearer that not only were the Russian forces vastly over rated but also the FSB have turned out to be just as incompetent. Putin even went on state TV to publicize this supposed assassination attempt and now its been unraveled as a sham. When agents broke into the house it seems they misunderstood the instructions of the set up and took things a little too literally...????

 

Russian Spies Hilariously Screw Up Putin’s ‘Assassination Plot’ Claim

 

Russia’s notorious FSB counterintelligence agency released a video of the arrests, as well as so-called “behind-the-scenes” footage of agents searching and seizing property allegedly found at the suspects’ apartment, which was posted in its entirety by state media outlet RIA Novosti on Telegram.

 

Social media users were quick to point that the SIMS game and “Signature unclear” could be signs that the arrest was part of an FSB hoax gone wrong, pointing out the directives for setting up the scene of the crime might have included planting three SIM cards and signing the book with an indiscernible signature—and that these instructions might have been misunderstood or taken too literally by the agents.

 

Perhaps realizing their agents have flubbed, official videos posted by the FSB on its YouTube channel excluded the book and blurred the images of the SIMS video games.

 

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russian-fsb-spies-hilariously-screw-up-vladimir-putins-assassination-plot-claim?

 

 

Edited April 26, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[Virt]

8 hours ago, LosLobo said:

Netherlands Sends Panzerhaubitze 2000's to Ukraine.
 

Such a gutsy gift for such a small country!

Possibly revenge served cold for a previous unpunished  Russian War Crime.

Namely, the destruction of MH17 and the deaths of 193 Dutch citizens.


 

 

Nice with some mobile artillery systems. In these days with the newest radar systems that can pinpoint the artillery positions very fast, it's important to have mobile artillery that can fire a few rounds and then move to new locations.

 

Denmark bought the French made Caesar 8x8 artillery systems a few years ago, that can link several systems together and hit targets 40 km away, and that system is capable of setting up within minutes,each system fire about 6 155mm rounds in a minute, and drive away  30 second later and be long gone before the enemy are capable of hitting the place they fired from.

 

A shell takes about 30 seconds to land 40km away afaik, so in theory it only give the enemy 30 second to pinpoint the artillery position and fire if they want to hit that exact position in time.

By the time the 6th round hit, the ceasar systems are able to drive to new positions.

 

It has the disadvantage that some of the crew has to stand outside the vehicle while it's operated, but if you are supposed to be gone by the time when the enemy retaliate, it might outweigh the negatives.

 

I wonder if those ceasar systems are part of any weapon packs sent to Ukraine from any country?