Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[nauseus]

22 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

Not really. Ukraine could have decided to remain neutral and not join NATO. 2/3 rds of Ukrainians during Yanukovych’s time in office was against joining NATO. This went against US’s desires thus the overthrow of his government, the Maidan uprising.

 

If Zelensky had gone ahead with the deal brokered in Antalya, hundreds of thousands of people would still be alive, the 4 Eastern oblasts would still be part of Ukraine, Europa would still be enjoying cheap, reliable energy from Russia and Russia would be weaker than it is today. My personal opinion of course.

 

I have no personal experience of living under Russian rule so I can’t really give you a satisfactory answer. All the times I’ve been there, primarily Moscow, St. Petersburg, Novgorod, the impression I have is that it’s a typical old European country. The architecture, the cuisine, all similar to other parts of Europe. People are prosperous, happy and very much more welcoming than western Europeans. Supermarkets are well stocked, restaurants super high class and the cities felt much safer than London, Paris or Rome.

 

 I hope I have answered your question sufficiently. Don’t hesitate to ask more questions or request for more clarification. I will do my best to respond appropriately.

 

They are not in NATO .

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

They are not in NATO you dolt.

Maybe the reason for russians to keep the  conflict going to make sure they would not join Nato.

 

Background information of Ukraine working for Nato membership.

 

Relations between Ukraine and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) started in 1991 following Ukraine's independence after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.[1] Ukraine first joined NATO's Partnership for Peace program in 1994, later joining the Planning and Review Process in 1997 and the NATO-Ukraine Commission in 1998. Although Ukraine initially declared neutrality and non-alignment with military blocs after independence,[2] it later signaled interest in eventual NATO membership. After Russia's annexation of Crimea and support for separatist forces in eastern Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine began actively pursuing NATO membership, formally declaring it a strategic policy objective in 2017.[3

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations

 

 

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Maybe the reason for russians to keep the  conflict going to make sure they would not join Nato.

 

Background information of Ukraine working for Nato membership.

 

Relations between Ukraine and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) started in 1991 following Ukraine's independence after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.[1] Ukraine first joined NATO's Partnership for Peace program in 1994, later joining the Planning and Review Process in 1997 and the NATO-Ukraine Commission in 1998. Although Ukraine initially declared neutrality and non-alignment with military blocs after independence,[2] it later signaled interest in eventual NATO membership. After Russia's annexation of Crimea and support for separatist forces in eastern Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine began actively pursuing NATO membership, formally declaring it a strategic policy objective in 2017.[3

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations

 

Maybe the reason for russians to keep the  conflict going to make sure they would not join Nato.

 

No.

 

4 weeks into the war Zelensky offered not to Join NATO if this could bring about peace. This has been covered numerous times before.

[Hummin]

3 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Maybe the reason for russians to keep the  conflict going to make sure they would not join Nato.

 

No.

 

4 weeks into the war Zelensky offered not to Join NATO if this could bring about peace. This has been covered numerous times before.

Im talking pre crimea and Donbass boarder conflict. 

 

Ukraine can not Join Nato as long there is an ongoing conflict in Ukraine. 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Im talking pre crimea and Donbass boarder conflict. 

 

Ukraine can not Join Nato as long there is an ongoing conflict in Ukraine. 

Regardless it proves it was not about NATO this time

[Gweiloman]

21 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Maybe the reason for russians to keep the  conflict going to make sure they would not join Nato.

 

Background information of Ukraine working for Nato membership.

 

Relations between Ukraine and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) started in 1991 following Ukraine's independence after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.[1] Ukraine first joined NATO's Partnership for Peace program in 1994, later joining the Planning and Review Process in 1997 and the NATO-Ukraine Commission in 1998. Although Ukraine initially declared neutrality and non-alignment with military blocs after independence,[2] it later signaled interest in eventual NATO membership. After Russia's annexation of Crimea and support for separatist forces in eastern Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine began actively pursuing NATO membership, formally declaring it a strategic policy objective in 2017.[3

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations

 

 

 

 

 

36 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

They are not in NATO you dolt.

Who’s the dolt now?

 

Of course Ukraine is not in NATO, else Article 5 would have been invoked. I mistakenly said “not join NATO’” when I meant “not wanting to join NATO”. This would be clear to anyone that’s not a dolt (whatever that means).

Edited May 12 by Gweiloman

[Mavideol]

41 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

 

Who’s the dolt now?

 

Of course Ukraine is not in NATO, else Article 5 would have been invoked. I mistakenly said “not join NATO’” when I meant “not wanting to join NATO”. This would be clear to anyone that’s not a dolt (whatever that means).

with all this back and forth about Ukraine, Russia, Nato and so forth I lost track of what was the main reason for Russia to invade Ukraine, by reading your posts it appears it was not about Ukraine wanting to be part of the western world and member of Nato, Putin said ghat many times, it was not about Nato, so be so kindly and explain what was his main reason

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Gweiloman said:

 

Who’s the dolt now?

 

Of course Ukraine is not in NATO, else Article 5 would have been invoked. I mistakenly said “not join NATO’” when I meant “not wanting to join NATO”. This would be clear to anyone that’s not a dolt (whatever that means).

 

You are. But now you're a wriggly one. 

Edited May 12 by nauseus

[CatCage]

36 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

with all this back and forth about Ukraine, Russia, Nato and so forth I lost track of what was the main reason for Russia to invade Ukraine, by reading your posts it appears it was not about Ukraine wanting to be part of the western world and member of Nato, Putin said ghat many times, it was not about Nato, so be so kindly and explain what was his main reason

 

His first reason was to rid Ukraine of Nazis claiming that Ukraine was infested by neo-Nazis who are persecuting Russian minority, he said  he was going  "demilitarise and denazify" the country but now he believes NATO is ganging up on him and he wants to secure his borders, his next objective will probably be to to take over Europe .....

 

 

[Gweiloman]

On the question of, is Ukraine winning, this is an interesting overview of the situation 

 

No speculations, no propaganda, no falsehoods. All confirmed positions supported by geo-locations. Ukraine better hopes that the promised munitions arrive soon. However, that leaves the unresolved issue of manpower. Unless NATO sends in troops…

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

@Gweiloman 

 

The one and only winner is China! 

[tgw]

4 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

On the question of, is Ukraine winning, this is an interesting overview of the situation 

 

No speculations, no propaganda, no falsehoods. All confirmed positions supported by geo-locations. Ukraine better hopes that the promised munitions arrive soon. However, that leaves the unresolved issue of manpower. Unless NATO sends in troops…

 

 

from a well-know pro-Ruzzian channel...

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/12/2024 at 11:02 AM, ExpatOilWorker said:

LOL. The only thing that counts at the end is who won the war.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, stevenl said:

They didn't get into an extended conflict. They were invaded and had no choice.

BS. They could have negotiated before it started.

[stevenl]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Where does he say they are? Insults don't help you when you are inventing things he didn't say.

He admitted saying so himself when he corrected his earlier statement.

 

"I mistakenly said “not join NATO’” when I meant “not wanting to join NATO".

[ExpatOilWorker]

28 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. The only thing that counts at the end is who won the war.

No all wars are won on the battle field, most wars end in a negotiated settlement. 

Just like the Vietnam War still reverberate in America history, this conflict could also linger around for centuries in Russia.

Vietnam 🇻🇳 won the war, but the people lost their freedom.

Japan and Germany lost the war, but the people won their freedom. 

Winning is not always worth celebrating  

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

No all wars are won on the battle field, most wars end in a negotiated settlement. 

Just like the Vietnam War still reverberate in America history, this conflict could also linger around for centuries in Russia.

Vietnam 🇻🇳 won the war, but the people lost their freedom.

Japan and Germany lost the war, but the people won their freedom. 

Winning is not always worth celebrating  

I was responding to your chart detailing what Russia has lost, not going into a debate about what winning means.

[Gweiloman]

14 hours ago, Hummin said:

@Gweiloman 

 

The one and only winner is China! 

China (and India) are among the biggest winners. Whether Russia emerges ahead remains to be seen (geo-politically. They have already won militarily). America is definitely one of the big losers of this conflict.They have driven Russia much much closer to China than would have been possible. Also, the rest of the world have turned against them, fed up of their bullying, hypocrisy and flagrant abuse of power.
 

Europe and especially Germany are even  bigger losers Deprived of cheap reliable energy, they now have to pay exorbitant prices for US LNG and supplies from other parts of the world, not to mention having to waste billions more on unnecessary military spending going forward.

 

By far the biggest loser is Ukraine, what will be left of it, after the conflict ends. There are rumours that Poland/Romania might take West Ukraine under its protection too,stop Russia taking over all of Ukraine, which Russia, imo, has no intention of doing. But this will sit very nicely with Poland as these are, I was led to believe, were previously Polish lands. Good luck to Ukraine if they think they can get these lands back, assuming the above happens.

[Bkk Brian]

Yesterdays update from British Ministry of Defence 

 

Gazprom reports biggest annual loss for 25 years.....lol

 

[Gweiloman]

11 hours ago, tgw said:

 

from a well-know pro-Ruzzian channel...

Typical substance-less reply. When you can’t counter the points, insult and discredit.

 

For a change, to make yourself credible, try to disprove the points instead. If false, that should be easy enough. But if true, face reality and stop denying the facts.

 

Attitudes and mindsets like yours is a key factor in explaining the way the conflict is going. Western leaders are in denial of the reality, relying on false reports of how well Ukraine is doing on the battlefield. Reason is simple. No one dares to tell the truth for fear of falling off the gravy train. ‘We just need another 61 billion and Ukraine will be able to hold on till the end of the year”. After that, “We need another 100 billion and Ukraine will be able to launch a counter attack “. Lol. Zelensky is now asking to be financed and defended for the next 10 years! What a joke. I hope the west falls for this scam though. It will continue to weaken them and the global majority will keep getting stronger.

[transam]

9 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Typical substance-less reply. When you can’t counter the points, insult and discredit.

 

For a change, to make yourself credible, try to disprove the points instead. If false, that should be easy enough. But if true, face reality and stop denying the facts.

 

Attitudes and mindsets like yours is a key factor in explaining the way the conflict is going. Western leaders are in denial of the reality, relying on false reports of how well Ukraine is doing on the battlefield. Reason is simple. No one dares to tell the truth for fear of falling off the gravy train. ‘We just need another 61 billion and Ukraine will be able to hold on till the end of the year”. After that, “We need another 100 billion and Ukraine will be able to launch a counter attack “. Lol. Zelensky is now asking to be financed and defended for the next 10 years! What a joke. I hope the west falls for this scam though. It will continue to weaken them and the global majority will keep getting stronger.

A Rusky point of view.............😂

[Gweiloman]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

No all wars are won on the battle field, most wars end in a negotiated settlement. 

Just like the Vietnam War still reverberate in America history, this conflict could also linger around for centuries in Russia.

Vietnam 🇻🇳 won the war, but the people lost their freedom.

Japan and Germany lost the war, but the people won their freedom. 

Winning is not always worth celebrating  

As each day wears on, the negotiated settlement will benefit Russia more and more.

 

The Americans fought an extremely unpopular war in Vietnam, thousand of miles from its own borders and thousands upon thousands of soldiers returned in body bags. A dark chapter in an already dark history.
 

Russia is fighting a war on its own borders, a war they consider existential to them, regardless of what others think. Victory will be celebrated every year. So yes, it will be remembered for centuries in Russia. 
 

Vietnamese people have lost their freedom? A big mistake that many westerners make is thinking and believing that only their way is right and trying to force everyone to adopt their values. One man’s meat is another man’s poison. They would do well to remember that.

[sammieuk1]

All going to plan

🤔

 

 

Putin appointed Sergei Shoigu as Secretary of the russian security council  

Putin dismissed Patrushev from the post of Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation.

Putin removed Shoigu from the post of Defense Minister!!!

[tgw]

14 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Typical substance-less reply. When you can’t counter the points, insult and discredit.

 

For a change, to make yourself credible, try to disprove the points instead. If false, that should be easy enough. But if true, face reality and stop denying the facts.

 

Attitudes and mindsets like yours is a key factor in explaining the way the conflict is going. Western leaders are in denial of the reality, relying on false reports of how well Ukraine is doing on the battlefield. Reason is simple. No one dares to tell the truth for fear of falling off the gravy train. ‘We just need another 61 billion and Ukraine will be able to hold on till the end of the year”. After that, “We need another 100 billion and Ukraine will be able to launch a counter attack “. Lol. Zelensky is now asking to be financed and defended for the next 10 years! What a joke. I hope the west falls for this scam though. It will continue to weaken them and the global majority will keep getting stronger.

 

no insult here, the video you posted is from a well-known pro-Ruzzian channel. fact.

 

here is a link to a well-known pro-Ukraine channel. of course it's overly optimistic for the UA side. maybe "pro-Ukraine" will be perceived as insulting or discrediting to some. oh well.

 

 

Edited May 13 by tgw

[Gweiloman]

2 minutes ago, tgw said:

 

no insult here, the video you posted is from a well-known pro-Ruzzian channel. fact.

 

here is a link to a well-known pro-Ukraine channel. maybe "pro-Ukraine" will be perceived as insulting or discrediting to some. oh well.

 

 

Simple question for you to answer. Is Russia gaining more territory or not?

 

[transam]

Just now, Gweiloman said:

Otherwise known as reality.

 

If you don’t have an intelligent response, go play elsewhere little man. I can’t be bothered to engage with someone that has the maturity of a 4 yr old. 

That sort of comment usually comes from a cornered individual.......

 

Now if you want to post pro-Russian stuff then you should have the ball's to deal with replies from mainly pro-freedom members.........😉

[rabas]

9 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Europe and especially Germany are even  bigger losers Deprived of cheap reliable energy, they now have to pay exorbitant prices for US LNG and supplies from other parts of the world, not to mention having to waste billions more on unnecessary military spending going forward.

 

Do you know that German gas imports are now cheaper than before Putin's war? And, you suggest Putin's threats to shut off EU gas, possibly killing people, is more a reliable energy supply? 

 

I ask if know because I find it hard to believe someone can post so much Russian disinformation and not know. But I acknowledge it's possible. Read this: Newly declassified US intel claims Russia is laundering propaganda through unwitting Westerners

 

https://ycharts.com/indicators/germany_natural_gas_border_price

 

[tgw]

 

9 minutes ago, Gweiloman said:

Simple question for you to answer. Is Russia gaining more territory or not?

 

 

yup, Ruzzia is making small, incremental gains while sustaining high casualties.

the real question is, how useful is the territory they gain and if they will get to keep it in the end.

 

and let's not forget, it's the second time the Ruzzians invade this territory since the start of the three day special operation over two years ago.

Edited May 13 by tgw

[Presnock]

On 2/24/2022 at 11:40 PM, tomazbodner said:

Challenge is how do you get out of it? Putin was long threatening action if NATO expands further East and Ukraine was his main target.

 

It is therefore my guess that Russia would either take over entire Ukraine, or replace Ukraine leadership with the Pro-Russian side. They are unlikely to stick to only the 2 eastern republics which they just recognised. That said, one thing is for certain: for all that talk of how the West will support and protect Ukraine - it's clear they were just empty words.

 

Now for the fallout - Ukraine is obviously the biggest loser, followed by Europe which will be sinking under the price of gas from Qatar and US, especially if both, NordStream and pipeline over Ukraine are shut off. 10x price increase in gas affects everything. Russia? Well, they already turned to China for new market. That's what purpose of Beijing trip was for Putin at the start of Olympics.

 

 

 

 

Putin went head with the invasion of Ukraine because Obama sat quietly in the background when Russia took Crimea.  The UN is a puppet for the losers as far as I am concerned and can't really do much against autocrats as several sit on the Security Council.  TIme to upgrade the organization but I sure don't know how that could be done in the world of today. Now a full fledged invasion AGAIN from the Russians and looks like Ukraine is going to need some more help - long range missiles to make Putin less popular as Russian cities are struck too.  Sanctions from what I see against autocrats seldom work at all since the autocrats help each other out to alleviate any problems from the sanctions.  I feel sorry for any country near Russia with the US election looming and Trump in the lead since he already announced no support for NATO and even told the world that very thing so his buddy Putin will know he can do whatever he wants so he must feel he needs to get rid of Ukraine, grab their ferile fields control grains around the world and then in the near future move into other nearby countries as he tries to re-establish the USSR.  Scary sitution for much of the world suffering this year from weather conditions.