Living Will (...without witnesses)?

[zenobit]

I would like to draw up a living will for myself, but after several days of research I am a bit at a loss, because all the offers or options that I could find for Thailand contain the signatures of one (better two) witnesses.

 

Since I have no family or friends other than my Thai wife, it is almost impossible for me to find two trustworthy witnesses. I don't want to fall back on neighbors or my wife's family members for this very personal topic.

 

Hence my question:
Is it possible to create a living will by hand instead of using one of the available download templates and then have the finished letter notarized by the German honorary consul in Pattaya instead of the signatures of two witnesses?

 

I'm grateful for every (serious) answer.

[ezzra]

You could prepare your on will but to be on the safe side, and for a few of thousand of baht get the help of a local lawyer who'll make sure that all is in order and said lawyer or anyone of your choosing can be a witness to it, as witnesses are a must when it comes to will and testaments, that what i have done anyway also in Pattaya...

Edited March 30, 2022 by ezzra

[Reposed]

On another aspect of this, I have a Thai friend whose grandmother, unbeknownst to him, left him land in Hua Hin one block off the beach, and land in Sukhumvit. Upon her death, my friend's father went to a judge, said he was the sole heir, and soon transferred all the land into his name. Son and father are now estranged and a long battle is underway.

 

My point: "very personal" or not, I would suggest you have a few neutral parties (witnesses) aware of this will who will be aware of your passing, to be sure the will is executed according to your wishes. 

 

A single lawyer can die, disappear, or be bought off. Have some backup. TIT.

[tonray]

Witnesses are not privy to anything in the documents. They are only there to witness and affirm it was you who signed the documents.

[zenobit]

Thank you for the new insights. ????
But apart from lawyers … don't private hospitals also offer the complete processing of a valid "Living Will" document as a service?

I found this offer from a Medical Center in Hua Hin:

Be Well

 

[zenobit]

47 minutes ago, Reposed said:

"...left him land in Hua Hin one block off the beach, and land in Sukhumvit. Upon her death, my friend's father went to a judge, said he was the sole heir, and soon transferred all the land into his name. Son and father are now estranged and a long battle is underway...."

I think there is a misunderstanding here: I am not talking about a "Last Will/Testament" but about a "Ling Will Declaration".

[zenobit]

47 minutes ago, tonray said:

Witnesses are not privy to anything in the documents. They are only there to witness and affirm it was you who signed the documents.

However, the witnesses must be named on the document with their full name and detailed address.

[crazykopite]

You require two witnesses that have to see you actually sign your will and then they both sign to acknowledge your signature the whole process must take place when all three parties are together the witnesses are not acknowledging what is in your will they are confirming that they were present when you signed the will 

[zenobit]

3 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

"...the whole process must take place when all three parties are together..."

THREE parties? Me, the witnesses and who is the third party? The lawyer?

[Thailand]

1 minute ago, zenobit said:

THREE parties? Me, the witnesses and who is the third party? The lawyer?

Still people don't know what you are talking about confusing  the last will etc and a living will.

 

We had our living wills witnessed by a friend and a director of the hospital where we have lodged the living wills. In addition our lawyer has a copy , our friend has a copy and there are copies at our home. The witnesses did add their addresses but it is solely to witness our signatures, no additional responsibilities.

 

 

[Reposed]

   1 hour ago,  Reposed said: 

"...left him land in Hua Hin one block off the beach, and land in Sukhumvit. Upon her death, my friend's father went to a judge, said he was the sole heir, and soon transferred all the land into his name. Son and father are now estranged and a long battle is underway...."

1 hour ago, zenobit said:

I think there is a misunderstanding here: I am not talking about a "Last Will/Testament" but about a "Ling Will Declaration".

 

No misunderstanding. They go hand-in-hand and one usually leads to the other. I was merely foreseeing possible issues.

 

Having said that, having people aware of your living will other than your lawyer also applies as in a LW&T. Copies to your doctor, your file at the hospital (or hospital administrator) you anticipate being in is advisable. Otherwise, who knows your wishes but you and one lawyer?

 

[HarrySeaman]

Just like you need to have a Thai lawyer draw up your Thai will you should get your Thai lawyer to draw up your living will.  This way the living will will be valid in any Thai hospital and can be applied as soon as you enter the hospital.

 

If you plan on putting your wife in charge of your medical care should you be unable to do this yourself then, according to my Thai lawyers, she will need to sign the living will.  You will also need to have at least one other party sign as a witness that you signed the document.  Often this is a member of the lawyer's staff.

 

Be sure to leave copies of the regular will and living will with your wife and any close friends.

 

If you don't have any friends other than your wife then make some.  Surely there are some farangs living within a reasonable distance who will enjoy getting together for food, drink, and conversation.

[sawadee1947]

You don't need any template at all.

Write as you want, put it in an envelope and mention who shall get this envelope. And inform them, that they are entitled to reveive this envelope.

Go to City Hall and let the envelope be registered.

Easy and legal way in Thailand.

Don't listen to any lawyer and adviser as there are many.☺️

 

[sawadee1947]

19 minutes ago, HarrySeaman said:

Just like you need to have a Thai lawyer draw up your Thai will you should get your Thai lawyer to draw up your living will.  This way the living will will be valid in any Thai hospital and can be applied as soon as you enter the hospital.

 

If you plan on putting your wife in charge of your medical care should you be unable to do this yourself then, according to my Thai lawyers, she will need to sign the living will.  You will also need to have at least one other party sign as a witness that you signed the document.  Often this is a member of the lawyer's staff.

 

Be sure to leave copies of the regular will and living will with your wife and any close friends.

 

If you don't have any friends other than your wife then make some.  Surely there are some farangs living within a reasonable distance who will enjoy getting together for food, drink, and conversation.

Nonsense. No lawyer necessary

[Surasak]

1 hour ago, zenobit said:

THREE parties? Me, the witnesses and who is the third party? The lawyer?

What's a lawyer got to do with anything? You and the TWO witnesses are all that is required.

[Surasak]

Sawadee1974 has the answer the OP is looking for.

A Thai lawyer is the last person you want involved with a will.

Also, DO NOT allow anyone to hand over bank books to police, or any money you thought you had will no longer be available.

[oxo1947]

There seems to be some confusion here --on a "Living Will" and an ordinary Will.

 

Living Will.

Plan ahead and get the medical care you want at the end of life.

Living wills and other advance directives are written, legal instructions regarding your

preferences for medical care if you are unable to make decisions for yourself. Advance

directives guide choices for doctors and caregivers if you're terminally ill, seriously injured,

in a coma, in the late stages of dementia or near the end of life.

 

Thai Living Will Instructions ----Its in Thai--You will need to get interp, Good luck with everything

https://www.thailivingwill.in.th/

[KannikaP]

2 hours ago, zenobit said:

THREE parties? Me, the witnesses and who is the third party? The lawyer?

You and two witnesses add up to THREE.

[zenobit]

1 hour ago, HarrySeaman said:

Just like you need to have a Thai lawyer draw up your Thai will you should get your Thai lawyer to draw up your living will.  This way the living will will be valid in any Thai hospital and can be applied as soon as you enter the hospital.

 

If you plan on putting your wife in charge of your medical care should you be unable to do this yourself then, according to my Thai lawyers, she will need to sign the living will.  You will also need to have at least one other party sign as a witness that you signed the document.  Often this is a member of the lawyer's staff.

 

Be sure to leave copies of the regular will and living will with your wife and any close friends.

 

If you don't have any friends other than your wife then make some.  Surely there are some farangs living within a reasonable distance who will enjoy getting together for food, drink, and conversation.

Very helpful post ... thanks Harry ????

[ChrisKC]

3 hours ago, tonray said:

Witnesses are not privy to anything in the documents. They are only there to witness and affirm it was you who signed the documents.

Exactly! Alternatively, I think that one can easily ask a Bank Official to witness - one doesn't need to know of someone personally, they can trust.

[TigerandDog]

2 hours ago, zenobit said:

THREE parties? Me, the witnesses and who is the third party? The lawyer?

are you serious about this question?

 

3 parties = you and the 2 witnesses. DUH

 

Also, if you have a Thai last will and testament, there is also provision in the Thai template that I used for a living will.

 

Additionally as stated by others, the witnesses are only signing to say they actually saw you sign the will. There is no need for them to read or have any knowledge of the will's contents.

[TigerandDog]

1 hour ago, HarrySeaman said:

Just like you need to have a Thai lawyer draw up your Thai will you should get your Thai lawyer to draw up your living will.  

 

 

Don't know where you get the idea that you have to have a Thai lawyer draw up your last will and testament.

 

It's not necessary at all.

 

Just avail yourself of a Thai will template, which also includes a living will section, complete it in your native language, have it translated to Thai and sign both with your witnesses present and then have them sign both.

[zenobit]

Finally, I would like to say that it will certainly not be easy to find the right way with the massively different recommendations (...lawyer or City Hall?).

I honestly thought it would be easier... but that's life.
Thanks again for the many replies.

[sawadee1947]

59 minutes ago, Surasak said:

What's a lawyer got to do with anything? You and the TWO witnesses are all that is required.

Not even 2 witnesses. As I stated in my earlier post, your signiture will be veryfied in City Hall.????

[TigerandDog]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

You don't need any template at all.

Write as you want, put it in an envelope and mention who shall get this envelope. And inform them, that they are entitled to reveive this envelope.

Go to City Hall and let the envelope be registered.

Easy and legal way in Thailand.

Don't listen to any lawyer and adviser as there are many.☺️

 

Unfortunately you do need a template. The Thai format needs to be followed. I originally wrote mine the same as I did my home country will and it was rejected when it was sent for translation. Subsequent enquiries determined that the will must follow the Thai format.

[TigerandDog]

6 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Not even 2 witnesses. As I stated in my earlier post, your signiture will be veryfied in City Hall.????

WRONG

[sawadee1947]

1 minute ago, TigerandDog said:

Unfortunately you do need a template. The Thai format needs to be followed. I originally wrote mine the same as I did my home country will and it was rejected when it was sent for translation. Subsequent enquiries determined that the will must follow the Thai format.

Well, you made a mistake of course. 

As I stated earlier you let a sealed envelope be registered. 

Don't show what you wrote to anyone.

No Thai Format. No Translation!☺️

[sawadee1947]

5 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

WRONG

No, I'm not. I did this procedure already.

It's obvious that you don't have any knowledge.........in this case ????

[sawadee1947]

8 minutes ago, TigerandDog said:

Unfortunately you do need a template. The Thai format needs to be followed. I originally wrote mine the same as I did my home country will and it was rejected when it was sent for translation. Subsequent enquiries determined that the will must follow the Thai format.

BS

[TigerandDog]

2 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Well, you made a mistake of course. 

As I stated earlier you let a sealed envelope be registered. 

Don't show what you wrote to anyone.

No Thai Format. No Translation!☺️

you let a sealed envelope be registered. - not absolutely necessary. You can keep under lock and key at your won premises if you wish, or somewhere else that you consider safe.

 

No Thai Format. No Translation! - WRONG on both counts. A will for your Thai estate MUST be written in your native language AND translated to Thai, AND it MUST follow the Thai will format. Most Thai authorities will not accept a will written in your native language only and not following the Thai format.

 

Have had the widows of a few farang friends find this out the hard way.