Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[omnipresent]

Is there any news about solar roof cars in Thailand? Thailand certainly gets some powerful sun.

[Bandersnatch]

22 minutes ago, omnipresent said:

Is there any news about solar roof cars in Thailand? Thailand certainly gets some powerful sun.

I agree with you, a solar roof makes a lot more sense than a glass roof in Thailand.

 

As far as I know there are no solar roofs available on any EVs in Thailand. The Toyota Prius Prime is a Plug-in Hybrid and has a solar roof. It gets good reviews but is not available in Thailand.

[Greenside]

On 7/21/2023 at 9:25 AM, JBChiangRai said:

Range for me is irrelevant, as long as it’s above my desired break interval which is about 300km.

 

What is important to me is performance, handling, NVH, design and recharge speed.

 

Above all performance and handling, every drive should be a pleasure.

At the beginning of this year I test drove every EV available at Chiang Mai dealers and as far as driving enjoyment and handling goes the MG4 X was hands down the winner.  Have had mine since February and, although some aspects could use improvement, it's really a pleasure to get in and glide away every morning.

[Greenside]

I test drove A Neta V about 6 months ago and was quite impressed, given the price.  Have had an MG4 since February and last week my stepson and I went to check out the Neta again.  After almost 5 months (mostly) in love with the MG, I was very impressed with the responsiveness of the Neta infotainment system and the thought they seem to have put into the features.  As you'd expect, the build quality reflects the price to some extent but not quite as much as you'd think.  Neta is giving a 10k baht Lotus voucher in with the 549k price until the end of the month and the dealer says he expects the government subsidy to end or be reduced by November.
We are giving this some thought as a second (city) car and I'd like to hear the opinions of anyone who's had one for a while.

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, Greenside said:

At the beginning of this year I test drove every EV available at Chiang Mai dealers and as far as driving enjoyment and handling goes the MG4 X was hands down the winner.  Have had mine since February and, although some aspects could use improvement, it's really a pleasure to get in and glide away every morning.

As regular contributors know I put down a deposit on an MGZS EV when they were announced in 2019. The wall box install company chosen by MG refuse to fit one for me as I had solar. After another fight with MG I was allowed to buy the MG HS PHEV. 
 

When I drove the MG4 I was comparing it to the HS. The HS is bigger than a Honda CRV but has a 0-100kph of 6.9 seconds. It is a very comfortable luxury car with 9 Bose Speakers, ambient lighting etc.

 

The MG 4 certainly felt like a big step down in luxury and comfort but it is nearly half the price.
 

Acceleration felt sluggish to start with, but it was fine when it was moving. Handling was excellent but not as smooth as the HS. 
 

For the price the MG 4 is an excellent car. I love the LFP batteries and VTL but I don’t know I could do without the comfort and luxury of my current car:

 

The HS has 5 years of premium data built into the car for “find my car” switching on the aircon from the restaurant etc.  

 

It comes with free music streaming that also shows what’s playing on the drivers display 

 

[JBChiangRai]

5 hours ago, In the jungle said:

One of the key ingredients of performance and handling is weight; or rather the lack thereof. 

 

Current EVs fall down in that area though I don't doubt weight will come down as battery technology improves.

 

To take one example the Lotus Eletre weighs more than two and a half tonnes.  Colin Chapman must be rolling in his grave.

 

You might think handling would be worse, actually it’s not.

 

the Porsche Taycan is almost as fast around the Nurburgring as the 911 GT3RS, the Tesla Model S is also stunningly quick.

 

mostly down to a very low center of gravity.

 

As for the performance advantages of an EV, it doesn’t even need stating

[Jai Dee]

Several off-topic posts and replies have been removed.

[KhunLA]

6 hours ago, In the jungle said:

Current EVs fall down in that area though I don't doubt weight will come down as battery technology improves.

Weight of batteries have and will continue to come down drastically, specially if they can mass produce SS batteries.

 

As @Bandersnatch stated, don't forget the 30kg of petrol (40L X 740gr), and I didn't add in below weights.  Not much difference.  EV torque makes up for any suspected 'weighted performance loss' 

 

Some weights, our MG ZS; 1570 kg

Honda CX50 2199kg

Honda CRV 1575 kg

Honda Accord 1420

Toyota Camry 1501

Toyota Cross 1413 

Toyota CH-R 1412

Benz 350 1715 (?)

 

[JBChiangRai]

4 hours ago, Greenside said:

At the beginning of this year I test drove every EV available at Chiang Mai dealers and as far as driving enjoyment and handling goes the MG4 X was hands down the winner.  Have had mine since February and, although some aspects could use improvement, it's really a pleasure to get in and glide away every morning.

I have the same car in that Blue with a bodykit, I love the car, it’s a lot of fun for the money and cheap enough that you don’t worry about where you park it or damage from enjoying a spirited drive.

[KhunLA]

8 hours ago, Gweiloman said:

I don’t see prices coming back down to the 20 baht price point anytime soon. When we bought our Mazda 2 5-6 yrs ago, E20 was around 16 baht. Now it’s the same price as 91. 
 

With the current mileage that I do, with good sunshine (guaranteed in Thailand) and a TOU meter (promised for next week but who knows), whatever “premium “ I might have paid for my PHEV will be recovered in no time.

Same with E85, Sept 2020 ish, and it was 29% cheaper than 91.  Actually cast the same to go 100 kms, (MG ZS) using all 3 (91, (E20 or 95), E85), but performed just a wee bit better on E85, since designed for it.  11kpL vs 14kpL, E85 vs 91.

 

Now they are almost same price, 36 ish to 37.5 ish.   I keep on have to adjust my #s calculating the savings ... in a good way.

 

Staying  On Topic of course ... them damn CSs, actually easier to find than E85 petrol now ????

[Bandersnatch]

BYD has already established it’s presence in Thailand by building a factory and an expanding dealer network. The cars it is bringing to Thailand all represent great value for money like the Atto 3, Dolphin and Seagull. But BYD also has a luxury brand that is a joint venture with Mercedes called Denza. BYD brought the Denza D9 to this years BKK auto show, which leads me to believe that Denza maybe coming to Thailand. 

 

Denza D9 EV 44th Bangkok International Motor Show BKK, Thailand, March 23, 2023 photo Bandersnatch

 

BYD Is clearly using Denza to try out features which that will later trickle down to it’s cheaper models  such V2L at 6kW, V2V at 60kW and being able to fast charge from both sides of the vehicle at the same time using 2 charging stations. Can’t find a super fast charging station, then use 2 of the far more common regular fast charging stations! Add 100km of range in 4 minutes or 350km in just 15 minutes.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Bandersnatch

[macahoom]

13 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

Can’t find a super fast charging station, then use 2 of the far more common regular fast charging stations!

In some situations this could be deemed as being very unfair.

 

If I arrived at a station with only two DC plugs, which at the moment is quite common, I wouldn't be too pleased if one car was hogging both of them. 

[FarangRimPing]

On 2/22/2023 at 12:05 PM, FarangRimPing said:

I've used it about 5-10 times but only at the EA Anywhere at Robinsons, Kamphaeng Phet. Worked well every time except the last time, about 2 months ago, when after it charged my credit card for the 50 baht per hour, it never started charging. It always said 'preparing'. I sent a complaint to the company with a screenshot but they never got back to me, so I was out of pocket 50 baht. Not a big deal because I have a hybrid.

I tried the EA Anywhere station in Kamphaeng Phet again, and it still didn't work, 6 months after I complained to them in January. So again, I'm out money since you have to pay ahead of time. 200 baht because you now have to prepay via a wallet, with a 200 baht minimum. I again complained and sent them proof from their app showing I received 0 electricity.

 

I was ignored, again.

 

Bottom line, be very wary of using EA Anywhere. I will not be using them again.

[Andrew Dwyer]

Following the BYD theme :

 

Those waiting for the arrival of the Seal here in Thailand might be wondering what is happening ?

Well , BYD are never one to stand still and let success come to them, seems like they are searching for more variations and won’t be satisfied until they have the ideal car for everyone !

 

 The Seal being a prime example:

 

 

BYD Seal ( EV )

 

 

BYD Seal DM -i ( PHEV )

 

 

BYD Seal U ( EV )

 

Not content with the Seal sedan EV they now have a similar shaped PHEV and a SUV ( EV) version.

 

Personally i like the SUV version, a larger than the Atto 3 with a more “ saner “ interior would go down well if it came here i think.

 

 

[Gweiloman]

21 minutes ago, macahoom said:

In some situations this could be deemed as being very unfair.

 

If I arrived at a station with only two DC plugs, which at the moment is quite common, I wouldn't be too pleased if one car was hogging both of them. 

Interesting scenario. But with both chargers in action, the wait would be minimal. Of course if it was me charging,I would immediately stop one of the chargers.

[JBChiangRai]

In case anyone is interested in the performance comparison of the MG4 vs BYD ATTO 3 Extended Range.

 

I had the opportunity to pit my MG4 (X) against the ATTO today on the way back to Chiang Rai from Chiang Mai.  Side by side from about 30km/hr upwards (didn't test below) the MG4 steadily pulled away up to considerably past the legal limit. Both cars only one occupant.

[JBChiangRai]

26 minutes ago, macahoom said:

In some situations this could be deemed as being very unfair.

 

If I arrived at a station with only two DC plugs, which at the moment is quite common, I wouldn't be too pleased if one car was hogging both of them. 

Using both plugs on one charger would split the charger's maximum capable output in half on each plug, but it would prevent another car from taking half the current and slow down the charging process.

 

Incidentally, there is a German car with an AC charging port on each side, only one side is DC and you can only use one side at a time.

[Bandersnatch]

35 minutes ago, macahoom said:

In some situations this could be deemed as being very unfair.

 

If I arrived at a station with only two DC plugs, which at the moment is quite common, I wouldn't be too pleased if one car was hogging both of them. 

Agreed - only to be used when there are lots of free chargers.  If you can add 100km of range in 4 minutes you will probably not be there very long.

[Bandersnatch]

32 minutes ago, FarangRimPing said:

I tried the EA Anywhere station in Kamphaeng Phet again, and it still didn't work, 6 months after I complained to them in January. So again, I'm out money since you have to pay ahead of time. 200 baht because you now have to prepay via a wallet, with a 200 baht minimum. I again complained and sent them proof from their app showing I received 0 electricity.

 

I was ignored, again.

 

Bottom line, be very wary of using EA Anywhere. I will not be using them again.

Sorry to hear your experience. All the EA chargers I have used have worked and I have contacted them twice (but not recently) and got quick replies. 

[Bandersnatch]

1 hour ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Following the BYD theme :

 

Those waiting for the arrival of the Seal here in Thailand might be wondering what is happening ?

Well , BYD are never one to stand still and let success come to them, seems like they are searching for more variations and won’t be satisfied until they have the ideal car for everyone !

 

 The Seal being a prime example:

 

 

BYD Seal ( EV )

 

 

BYD Seal DM -i ( PHEV )

 

 

BYD Seal U ( EV )

 

Not content with the Seal sedan EV they now have a similar shaped PHEV and a SUV ( EV) version.

 

Personally i like the SUV version, a larger than the Atto 3 with a more “ saner “ interior would go down well if it came here i think.

 

 

Great video  - thanks for sharing.

 

I really like the BYD seal, but it’s not as practical as an SUV and when I sat in it I found it a bit of a squeeze 

 

 

The only things that concerned me about the BYD Seal U was sunroof - not sure if there is a sun screen - the Irish guy complained about the heat. Also the acceleration  - 9.6 seconds is ICE car performance, but maybe like the Seal it will come in dual motor variant.

 

Stats from the video:

 

BYD Seal U 
4,785mm L; 1,890mm W; 1,668mm H; 2,765mm WB
Honda CRV for comparison
4,691mm L; 1,855mm W; 1,679mm H; 2,660mm WB

160kW motor 0-100km/hour comfort 9.3sec design 9.6sec 
19 inch wheels range WLTP comfort 420km design 500km
Battery comfort 71.8kWh design 87kWh

AC 11kW DC comfort 115kW design 140kW
Heat pump and V2L
 

[Bandersnatch]

 

We know that cold weather can reduce the range of EVs, but what about extreme heat like we get here in Thailand?

 

I wouldn’t recommend a Nissan Leaf in Thailand which doesn’t have an active battery thermal management.  Nissan now include a full liquid battery temperature control system in their latest EV (the Ariya)

 

A recent study looking at the effect rising temperatures had on EVs and  made the following conclusions:

 

“A/C has much less of a negative impact on EV range than a resistance heater.

 

Why is EV cooling different from ICE cooling?

1. No difference in energy use between driving or idling. With a gas car, the engine produces a lot of waste heat that the air conditioner also has to fight against to keep the cabin cool. An EV does not produce the same amount of heat when running so the AC doesn’t have to work as hard.  
2. You can pre-cool your EV when it’s plugged in. This is great because the most energy intensive part of air conditioning is the initial cool down. It may take 3-5 kW of energy to get a 95 degree car to a comfortable temperature, but it takes only around 1 kW to keep it at 70 degrees. 
3. Cold air happens immediately - no more waiting for the air compressor to kick in as the engine warms up!

 

On average, we found that, compared to the maximum range that our vehicles get:

• Range loss at 80 degrees: 2.8%
• Range loss at 90 degrees: 5%
• Range loss at 100 degrees: 31%***

Note that the range loss at 100 degrees is based on extremely limited data, and we will update it when we have more confidence in the value”

 

The study recommended cars with Heat Pumps like Tesla that didn’t experience any range difference as the temperature rose.

 

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/what-a-c-does-to-your-range

 

 

[Andrew Dwyer]

To make things clearer BYD change the name of some of their cars for different markets ????

 

https://carnewschina.com/2023/07/24/byd-song-plus-to-sell-internationally-as-seal-u-to-hit-the-market-this-year/

 

Ah yes, clear as custard !

[KhunLA]

29 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

To make things clearer BYD change the name of some of their cars for different markets ????

 

https://carnewschina.com/2023/07/24/byd-song-plus-to-sell-internationally-as-seal-u-to-hit-the-market-this-year/

 

Ah yes, clear as custard !

Yep ... same as most car companies.  shh ... never let facts get in the way of their spins.

[KhunLA]

38 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

We know that cold weather can reduce the range of EVs, but what about extreme heat like we get here in Thailand?

 

I wouldn’t recommend a Nissan Leaf in Thailand which doesn’t have an active battery thermal management.  Nissan now include a full liquid battery temperature control system in their latest EV (the Ariya)

 

A recent study looking at the effect rising temperatures had on EVs and  made the following conclusions:

 

“A/C has much less of a negative impact on EV range than a resistance heater.

 

Why is EV cooling different from ICE cooling?

1. No difference in energy use between driving or idling. With a gas car, the engine produces a lot of waste heat that the air conditioner also has to fight against to keep the cabin cool. An EV does not produce the same amount of heat when running so the AC doesn’t have to work as hard.  
2. You can pre-cool your EV when it’s plugged in. This is great because the most energy intensive part of air conditioning is the initial cool down. It may take 3-5 kW of energy to get a 95 degree car to a comfortable temperature, but it takes only around 1 kW to keep it at 70 degrees. 
3. Cold air happens immediately - no more waiting for the air compressor to kick in as the engine warms up!

 

On average, we found that, compared to the maximum range that our vehicles get:

• Range loss at 80 degrees: 2.8%
• Range loss at 90 degrees: 5%
• Range loss at 100 degrees: 31%***

Note that the range loss at 100 degrees is based on extremely limited data, and we will update it when we have more confidence in the value”

 

The study recommended cars with Heat Pumps like Tesla that didn’t experience any range difference as the temperature rose.

 

https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/what-a-c-does-to-your-range

 

 

That Leaf has got to be one of the worst cars made, especially at the selling point when there wasn't much competition.  Cutting their price 50% is a bit telling, and still overpriced.

[Andrew Dwyer]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Yep ... same as most car companies.  shh ... never let facts get in the way of their spins.

I can understand why some names of cars had to be changed as they were embarrassing in other languages ( Pinto in Brazil, MR2 in France etc ) but i think BYD have produced so many cars in such a short time they have forgotten some of them !

They also have caused some confusion as to which cars belong in which series, Ocean and Dynasty spring to mind.

[vinny41]

17 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

That Leaf has got to be one of the worst cars made, especially at the selling point when there wasn't much competition.  Cutting their price 50% is a bit telling, and still overpriced.

You know the reason why this price was reduced yet you still trot out the same rubbish

The Nissan leaf was discontinued in Thailand July 2022

Global sales totaled 577,000 Leafs by February 2022.

The Leaf listed as the world's all-time top selling plug-in electric car through December 2019.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf

 

[JBChiangRai]

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

You know the reason why this price was reduced yet you still trot out the same rubbish

The Nissan leaf was discontinued in Thailand July 2022

Global sales totaled 577,000 Leafs by February 2022.

The Leaf listed as the world's all-time top selling plug-in electric car through December 2019.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf

 

I believe the Leaf was discontinued here was because it's air cooling was found to be unsuitable for Thailand's hot climate.  That's what the salesman at GWM told me (prior to GWM it was a Nissan dealership, owned & staffed by the same people, including the Salesman I referred to).

[KhunLA]

17 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

You know the reason why this price was reduced yet you still trot out the same rubbish

The Nissan leaf was discontinued in Thailand July 2022

Global sales totaled 577,000 Leafs by February 2022.

The Leaf listed as the world's all-time top selling plug-in electric car through December 2019.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Leaf

Exactly my point, they stop selling because they can't compete against the new competition over the last 4 years.   Who would pay 2m for a Leaf, when MG EP (better spec'd) was 1.1m, now 771k.

 

Thais are much smarter than that.  Good luck trying to sell them/Leafs @ 1.5m 

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I believe the Leaf was discontinued here was because it's air cooling was found to be unsuitable for Thailand's hot climate.  That's what the salesman at GWM told me (prior to GWM it was a Nissan dealership, owned & staffed by the same people, including the Salesman I referred to).

I suspect it was more to do with import taxes as the new leaf is still being sold in countries that have a similar climate to Thailand

Nissan Leaf is an imported car from Japan. Therefore, the import tax according to the criteria of the Thai-Japan Free Trade Area, JTEPA, is 20% of the selling price at the factory. There is also an 8% excise tax compounded on top of the above.

Another tax collected is the interior tax of 10% of the excise tax. In this case, it's 9,600 baht, a total of 1,305,600 baht, and finally, there is a VAT of 7% of the total value added. In this case, it's 91,932 baht, the total price is about 1.396 million baht.

https://www.autofun.co.th/news/ข้อมูลล่าสุดเผยราคา-nissan-leaf-ขายคนไทยแพงเป็นอันดับ-6-ของโลก-เพราะภาษีตัวเดียว-38534

 

So nearly B400,000 in taxes if the price leaving the factory is 1 million baht

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Exactly my point, they stop selling because they can't compete against the new competition over the last 4 years.   Who would pay 2m for a Leaf, when MG EP (better spec'd) was 1.1m, now 771k.

 

Thais are much smarter than that.  Good luck trying to sell them/Leafs @ 1.5m 

And when was the last time that the Nissan leaf was sold for 2m baht 

And I think you will find the MG EP was never 1.1 million as the launch price was B998,000 in 2020

https://paultan.org/2020/12/02/mg-ep-ev-launched-in-thailand-for-below-1m-baht-c-segment-wagon-380-km-electric-range-only-rm133k/

and in March 2022 it received a B227,000 price reduction 998,000-227,000=771,000