Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[impulse]

16 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I'm a big BYD fan and when I get round to changing my car I'll probably go for a BYD, but I think saying just get an acorn nut is not the right answer. No car should have protruding bolts so close to your feet - BYD need to do better. They should be installing the bolts, not the customer.

 

I think there's a bunch of people looking for something to complain about. 

 

As a former grease monkey, gas pumper, and (literal) 40 year engineer, the thought of some exposed screw ends up under the dash where nobody can see them (and you'd have to be double jointed midget to get impaled), doesn't seem worth spending any money to fix. 

 

There have always been products available for the picky people to dress up stuff they don't like about the way their cars left the factory.  It's a huge market.  Look up JC Whitney for a little taste.  (if they still exist...)  Those customers aficionadas can spend the time and money if it makes them happy.  I used to be one of them.  No longer.  The rest of us are just happy they took a few bucks off the cost by leaving off the acorn nuts.  And the labor to install the acorn nuts.

 

My last car was a Toyota Sienna van.  It had all kinds of protrusions that grabbed me when I crawled up under the dash.  None that bothered me operating the vehicle as intended.

 

[josephbloggs]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I think there's a bunch of people looking for something to complain about. 

 

As a former grease monkey, gas pumper, and (literal) 40 year engineer, the thought of some exposed screw ends up under the dash where nobody can see them (and you'd have to be double jointed midget to get impaled), doesn't seem worth spending any money to fix. 

 

There have always been products available for the picky people to dress up stuff they don't like about the way their cars left the factory.  It's a huge market.  Look up JC Whitney for a little taste.  (if they still exist...)  Those customers aficionadas can spend the time and money if it makes them happy.  I used to be one of them.  No longer.  The rest of us are just happy they took a few bucks off the cost by leaving off the acorn nuts.  And the labor to install the acorn nuts.

 

My last car was a Toyota Sienna van.  It had all kinds of protrusions that grabbed me when I crawled up under the dash.  None that bothered me operating the vehicle as intended.

 

Fair enough it is beneath the dash but from the picture is looks like right next to the pedals so not somewhere I want an exposed bolt.

Having said that I had never looked down there on any car I have owned, maybe I will check tomorrow beneath the floor mats - maybe it is common.

[mistral53]

So there is this electric car company worth more than all other car companies combined, and yet, on some of their models having produced them for several years, they still cant manage to reliably put suspensions together in a way that they stay together.....?

 

Come-on Musk, pull your head out of his old ass and spend some time building cars in a way that does not embarrass even the most fervent fan-boy, not to mention this has the potential for great harm to the car owner and the public at large.

[UWEB]

7 hours ago, mistral53 said:

So there is this electric car company worth more than all other car companies combined, and yet, on some of their models having produced them for several years, they still cant manage to reliably put suspensions together in a way that they stay together.....?

 

Come-on Musk, pull your head out of his old ass and spend some time building cars in a way that does not embarrass even the most fervent fan-boy, not to mention this has the potential for great harm to the car owner and the public at large.

Nothing else expected.

https://www.carscoops.com/2024/11/tesla-model-3-comes-bottom-in-german-tuv-reliability-test-again/

[Pib]

12 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

I'm a big BYD fan and when I get round to changing my car I'll probably go for a BYD, but I think saying just get an acorn nut is not the right answer. No car should have protruding bolts so close to your feet - BYD need to do better. They should be installing the nuts, not the customer.

That protruding bolt in that Sealion pic or even the protruding bol shown in my Atto pic are "not" close to a person's feet UNLESS the person is trying to jam his feet up under the dash and way behind the pedals. 

 

And I just went out to my Atto and tried touching those protruding bolts I showed in my Atto pic by sticking my feet behind the pedals and they upwards to where my toes could feel/touch those bolts.  I could just barely feel them....they did not bit/snag my toes....and I would be crazy to try to drive that way with my feet behind the pedals and pushed upwards to reach those bolts as I surely wouldn't get far before having an accident.

[CLW]

21 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I like it, and hopefully that will become a standard thing.  Would eliminate people not unplugging when done, rare.  

 

Hopefully, they stop charging @ 95%, as the last 5% simply takes too long.  Instead of 5 ish mins, as <95% goes in at,  it could be 20 mins, for that last 5% min of top up.  Charging cable & Make/model dependent.  

 

Really is rude now to go to 100% is someone is waiting.  Depending how far our next leg of the journey is, if not last stop, well leave anywhere from 80% and up, if someone is waiting. 

Absolutely with you. Most apps and stations display you can see the charging %. If I'm really in a hurry I ask friendly if the people really need a 100% or if they could vacate the spot for others. Ultimately you could press the stop button but that would be very rude. 

Better not bothering with these idiots...

[JBChiangRai]

I took our 23 month old MG4 with 29,000km in to have the battery checked.

 

SoH is 92.8%

[Pib]

49 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I took our 23 month old MG4 with 29,000km in to have the battery checked.

 

SoH is 92.8%

How was that SoH measurement done?  What type of equipment was used?  Who did it?    Is your battery LFP or NCA/NCM?

 

Sorry for multiple questions but I've really been interested in SoH measurements over the past 6 months....and I've come to the conclusion that some SoH measurements done by some shops are like some people who sell snake oil.

[josephbloggs]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

That protruding bolt in that Sealion pic or even the protruding bol shown in my Atto pic are "not" close to a person's feet UNLESS the person is trying to jam his feet up under the dash and way behind the pedals. 

 

And I just went out to my Atto and tried touching those protruding bolts I showed in my Atto pic by sticking my feet behind the pedals and they upwards to where my toes could feel/touch those bolts.  I could just barely feel them....they did not bit/snag my toes....and I would be crazy to try to drive that way with my feet behind the pedals and pushed upwards to reach those bolts as I surely wouldn't get far before having an accident.

Ah ok, fair enough.

[transam]

1 hour ago, JBChiangRai said:

I took our 23 month old MG4 with 29,000km in to have the battery checked.

 

SoH is 92.8%

Is that good or bad for 2 years use...?  🤔

[KhunLA]

Way too many BEVs in TH, especially locally / PKK, and MG ZSs.  Getting near 10 owned locally, I think, and considering the size & economics of the area, impressive amount, not counting the other brands I've noticed; BYDs, Ora kitty cats, even a couple Teslas.   Not leaving out the Hybrids.

 

Another silver ZS like ours at Makro, which I tried to enter ... having a 'What the, why isn't that button working', along with "Where the F is my dog ?" 

 

Hmm .. there's ours, 2 slots down  🙄

 

On Topic as always ...  Wuling Bingo EV @ Makro on display, and have to say, looking quite impressive, abet low spec'd, but didn't expect it to be that finished.  Much better than the Wuling Air EV

 

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

How was that SoH measurement done?  What type of equipment was used?  Who did it?    Is your battery LFP or NCA/NCM?

 

Sorry for multiple questions but I've really been interested in SoH measurements over the past 6 months....and I've come to the conclusion that some SoH measurements done by some shops are like some people who sell snake oil.

 

36 minutes ago, transam said:

Is that good or bad for 2 years use...?  🤔

 

This was the service department at the MG dealer.  He showed me it on his mobile phone, I suspect he used something like the commercially available carscanner device, the display looked like ones you've posted Pib. It's an LFP battery pack.

 

It's normal for batteries to age more in the first year then slow down. I would say ours is probably on the bad side of normal.  I drove it for 10 months and I kept it close to 100% SoC every day which accelerates aging, I also have a heavy right foot.  My eldest daughter has driven it for the last 13 months and she will average a 55-60% SoC as she only charges it (always to 100%) when it's down to below 20%.  She also has a heavy right foot and cruises faster than I do, probably nearer to 120km/hr on a journey.

 

I just renewed the Seal's insurance with Viriyah and asked them to quote for the MG4 and they said they don't currently cover MG4's.

[Pib]

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

This was the service department at the MG dealer.  He showed me it on his mobile phone, I suspect he used something like the commercially available carscanner device, the display looked like ones you've posted Pib. It's an LFP battery pack.

 

It's normal for batteries to age more in the first year then slow down. I would say ours is probably on the bad side of normal.  I drove it for 10 months and I kept it close to 100% SoC every day which accelerates aging, I also have a heavy right foot.  My eldest daughter has driven it for the last 13 months and she will average a 55-60% SoC as she only charges it (always to 100%) when it's down to below 20%.  She also has a heavy right foot and cruises faster than I do, probably nearer to 120km/hr on a journey.

 

I just renewed the Seal's insurance with Viriyah and asked them to quote for the MG4 and they said they don't currently cover MG4's.

 

Thanks.   

 

Since a MG dealership did the measurement with their OBD2 reader it's  probably a good SOH readout.  The dealerships service centers have high end OBD2 devices and also access to any proprietary OBD2 data the EV's computers/BMS may contain....proprietary OBD2 data that may not be available on the open market like when you buy a low cost OBD2 adapter and match it up with some OBD2 app your get for free or a small amount.

 

Now several weeks ago when I took my BYD Atto to the dealership for the SIM upgrade/swap I asked if I could get a battery SOH readout.    The answer was a firm No!!!....they will only do that if a problem is suspected with the traction battery.    

 

As explained in one of my earlier posts regarding SOH of my Atto battery I don't get a "valid" SOH readout using my OBD2 adapter with the Car Scanner Pro app.  The SOH readout the app gives is a "calculated" SOH obtained from dividing two static, hard-coded values set at the factory and these values never change..,even 10 years from now those values will not change....SOH next month, 1 year from now, 10 years from now would appear like it did day 1 out of the factory.     Maybe in the future the Car Scanner Pro app author will figure out the secret to obtaining a direct SOH readout (i.e., not calculated) from BYD vehicles BMS "assuming" the BYD BMS has such a value vs BYD using some type of fancy algorithm on a external OBD2 device to come up with a SOH reading based on a bunch of various factors like individual cell voltage, cells voltage delta, etc.  Time will tell.

 

The app's author knows EV owners really want to see a traction battery SOH reading with whatever app they use/buy so the "calculated" SOH probably fools a lot of people....hopefully such people will figure that out over the coming months/years assuming they notice the SOH readout has not changed even a little bit.  

 

So, I been doing some SOH measurements using OBD2 data based on KWH and Amp-Hour (AH) capacity when charging from a low SoC....usually starting at around 5% SoC.  About a month ago when I last did a SOH measurement (the Atto was 13 months old with approx 27,000 Km at the time)  I got a SOH measurement of  97.6% when using the "KWH" measurement method and 96.7% if using the "AH" measurement method.  The average of those two methods is 97.1%, 

 

97.1% is not bad considering...actually pretty good....as a lithium-ion type battery (LFP like the Atto battery or even a NCA/NCM battery) has its biggest capacity degradation during the first year or so and then the continued degradation is much slower as the years go on.

 

[CLW]

16 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

This was the service department at the MG dealer.  He showed me it on his mobile phone, I suspect he used something like the commercially available carscanner device, the display looked like ones you've posted Pib. It's an LFP battery pack.

 

It's normal for batteries to age more in the first year then slow down. I would say ours is probably on the bad side of normal.  I drove it for 10 months and I kept it close to 100% SoC every day which accelerates aging, I also have a heavy right foot.  My eldest daughter has driven it for the last 13 months and she will average a 55-60% SoC as she only charges it (always to 100%) when it's down to below 20%.  She also has a heavy right foot and cruises faster than I do, probably nearer to 120km/hr on a journey.

 

I just renewed the Seal's insurance with Viriyah and asked them to quote for the MG4 and they said they don't currently cover MG4's.

So you are knowingly damage the battery by charging it to 100 % every day.  Can't help you then.

[KhunLA]

22 minutes ago, CLW said:

So you are knowingly damage the battery by charging it to 100 % every day.  Can't help you then.

One needs to damage it ASAP, so it's below the SoH level, before the warranty is up, so they replace it for free 

[JBChiangRai]

11 hours ago, Pib said:

So, I been doing some SOH measurements using OBD2 data based on KWH and Amp-Hour (AH) capacity when charging from a low SoC....usually starting at around 5% SoC.  About a month ago when I last did a SOH measurement (the Atto was 13 months old with approx 27,000 Km at the time)  I got a SOH measurement of  97.6% when using the "KWH" measurement method and 96.7% if using the "AH" measurement method.  The average of those two methods is 97.1%, 

 

97.1% is not bad considering...actually pretty good....as a lithium-ion type battery (LFP like the Atto battery or even a NCA/NCM battery) has its biggest capacity degradation during the first year or so and then the continued degradation is much slower as the years go on.

 

 

How are you determining KWH into the battery? are you allowing for charging losses?

 

I think the MG helps you determine SoH because when fully charged, the indicated range has dropped from 425km to 405km.

 

On my Seal the range is nearly always the same, though I did get it to indicate 585km last time which is 5 more than it's supposed to have.

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, KhunLA said:

One needs to damage it ASAP, so it's below the SoH level, before the warranty is up, so they replace it for free 

 

You may be joking, but there's actually a lot to be said for that, be careful with those emoji's we wouldn't want you catching transamitis.

[KhunLA]

6 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I think the MG helps you determine SoH because when fully charged, the indicated range has dropped from 425km to 405km.

 

On my Seal the range is nearly always the same, though I did get it to indicate 585km last time which is 5 more than it's supposed to have.

That's my 'unscientific' guide for degradation, with the MG ZS.   Although I think I'll have the check the SoH at the 40k kms check up.   Might be a while, as we're not racking them up like we used to.

 

Past 2 months, I don't even think we put 1000 kms on it.

[vinny41]

48 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

One needs to damage it ASAP, so it's below the SoH level, before the warranty is up, so they replace it for free 

No Need to damage ASAP as the car in question is a MG4 with a lifetime warranty on the battery

[Pib]

2 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

How are you determining KWH into the battery? are you allowing for charging losses?

 

I think the MG helps you determine SoH because when fully charged, the indicated range has dropped from 425km to 405km.

 

On my Seal the range is nearly always the same, though I did get it to indicate 585km last time which is 5 more than it's supposed to have.

Yes, charging losses are accounted for except possibly for the amount of heat generated within the battery itself during the charging process....no need to try to figure out charging cable, onboard charger, etc., varying charging losses as I use the OBD2 KWH and AH accumulated data direct from the EV's BMS/electronic modules.

 

I'm not using some external meter to monitor how much KWH/AH flowed out of that  external AC or DC charger where things like charger cable, onboard charger, cooling system, etc., type power usage (a.k.a., losses) must be estimated for a SOH determination.  And using an external meter can easily result in the SOH of a battery appearing much better that it really is because of accuracy related to the external meter and incorrect charging losses estimation.  But when measuring the KWH/AH "after" the point of all/most charging losses and using the EV's own KWH/AH measurement circuit which is hopefully fairly accurate then a person SOH measurement can be much more accurate as compared to an external measurement.....can determine how much juice actually made it into the battery.

 

 The KWH and AH flow measurement into the battery is accomplished by a shunt sensor right after the juice enters the battery and this is reflected in OBD2 data....this sensor is after any other circuits can drain off/divert some of the KWH/AH.....right after those big orange high voltage cables enter the traction battery.  That shunt sensor is part of the battery's BMS system. 

 

That KWH/AH measurement circuit is constantly measuring the power into and out of the battery....when the measurement dust settles you know exactly how much juice made it into the battery after all possible charging losses with the possible exception of slight heating of the battery itself which is very minimal when charging via 7KW wall charger.   7KW of power following into a large traction battery like my Atto's 60.5KW battery represents only a 0.12C Rate (charge rate)  which is a low rate that generates very little heat....at such a low rate it takes over 10 hours to fully charge a battery.    C Rate definition below.

 

 

But back to the measurement of the KWH/AH by the EV's KWH/AH measurement circuit and OBD2 data recording of that measurement.  Below is a snapshot of the KWH/AH OBD2 accumulation/measurement.   Just take a OBD2 data measurement of the Accumulated KWH and/or AH  before beginning the charge....then take measurement/snapshot after the charge completes...substract the two and then divided by the battery's rated battery pack capacity (like my Atto's 60.48KW/150AH battery pack) along with making a correction/adjustment in those cases where you could not start the charge from 0% SoC.   

 

This is the method I'm using to obtain my SOH 97% calculation.  And if I instead just used measurements of input KWH/AH from an "external" meter like built into many AC chargers, a DC Fast Charger, etc., without correction for various charging losses a person could easily end up with a SoH greater than 100%....a battery with a SoH better than when it was brand new.  And even when using an estimation of charging losses....say around 8.5% average when using a 7KW wallcharger you could still end-up with a SOH of greater than 100% as the charging losses for that particular charger could have been significantly different for that particular long, multi-hour charging session where charging efficiency could have varied a good amount.    But if using the EV's built-in KWH/AH measurement circuit it's keeping tabs/correcting for all those possible charging loss errors.

 

OBD2 Data Snapshot....shows Accumulated KWH and AH....that is the amount
of KWH and AH that actually make it into the battery after charging losses.

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yes, charging losses are accounted for except possibly for the amount of heat generated within the battery itself during the charging process....no need to try to figure out charging cable, onboard charger, etc., varying charging losses as I use the OBD2 KWH and AH accumulated data direct from the EV's BMS/electronic modules.

 

I'm not using some external meter to monitor how much KWH/AH flowed out of that  external AC or DC charger where things like charger cable, onboard charger, cooling system, etc., type power usage (a.k.a., losses) must be estimated for a SOH determination.  And using an external meter can easily result in the SOH of a battery appearing much better that it really is because of accuracy related to the external meter and incorrect charging losses estimation.  But when measuring the KWH/AH "after" the point of all/most charging losses and using the EV's own KWH/AH measurement circuit which is hopefully fairly accurate then a person SOH measurement can be much more accurate as compared to an external measurement.....can determine how much juice actually made it into the battery.

 

 The KWH and AH flow measurement into the battery is accomplished by a shunt sensor right after the juice enters the battery and this is reflected in OBD2 data....this sensor is after any other circuits can drain off/divert some of the KWH/AH.....right after those big orange high voltage cables enter the traction battery.  That shunt sensor is part of the battery's BMS system. 

 

That KWH/AH measurement circuit is constantly measuring the power into and out of the battery....when the measurement dust settles you know exactly how much juice made it into the battery after all possible charging losses with the possible exception of slight heating of the battery itself which is very minimal when charging via 7KW wall charger.   7KW of power following into a large traction battery like my Atto's 60.5KW battery represents only a 0.12C Rate (charge rate)  which is a low rate that generates very little heat....at such a low rate it takes over 10 hours to fully charge a battery.    C Rate definition below.

 

 

But back to the measurement of the KWH/AH by the EV's KWH/AH measurement circuit and OBD2 data recording of that measurement.  Below is a snapshot of the KWH/AH OBD2 accumulation/measurement.   Just take a OBD2 data measurement of the Accumulated KWH and/or AH  before beginning the charge....then take measurement/snapshot after the charge completes...substract the two and then divided by the battery's rated battery pack capacity (like my Atto's 60.48KW/150AH battery pack) along with making a correction/adjustment in those cases where you could not start the charge from 0% SoC.   

 

This is the method I'm using to obtain my SOH 97% calculation.  And if I instead just used measurements of input KWH/AH from an "external" meter like built into many AC chargers, a DC Fast Charger, etc., without correction for various charging losses a person could easily end up with a SoH greater than 100%....a battery with a SoH better than when it was brand new.  And even when using an estimation of charging losses....say around 8.5% average when using a 7KW wallcharger you could still end-up with a SOH of greater than 100% as the charging losses for that particular charger could have been significantly different for that particular long, multi-hour charging session where charging efficiency could have varied a good amount.    But if using the EV's built-in KWH/AH measurement circuit it's keeping tabs/correcting for all those possible charging loss errors.

 

OBD2 Data Snapshot....shows Accumulated KWH and AH....that is the amount
of KWH and AH that actually make it into the battery after charging losses.

 

Thanks, I guessed that was what you were probably doing.

 

How soon after buying the car did you do it? Have you managed to notice any degradation?

 

I thibk I will buy one of those OBD devices, is it the "carscanner" ?

 

 

[Pib]

14 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Thanks, I guessed that was what you were probably doing.

 

How soon after buying the car did you do it? Have you managed to notice any degradation?

 

I thibk I will buy one of those OBD devices, is it the "carscanner" ?

 

 

I actually bough my first OBD2 adapter a few weeks "before" I got my Atto in late Oct 2023 in preparation of wanting to monitor OBD data on the EV I would soon have in my carport.   Watching Youtube video like those from Bjorn Nyland I got very interested in wanting to monitor/know everything I could about the EV traction battery.   In Byorn's videos he uses the Car Scanner "Pro" app for almost all his videos except maybe when he doing a video on a Tesla where he sometimes uses another OBD2 app tailored specifically for Tesla vehicles.    But he uses an $80USD OBDLink LX adapter which will not provide you anymore info for many car's (like EVs) than a cheap Bt50 OBD2 adapter bought off Lazada/Shopee.   Go to one of his videos and look down in the comments section and he has links to the OBD app and adapter he uses....as I already mentioned above.   

 

There is a  Car Scanner "free" version and a Car Scanner "Pro" version.  The version cost about $5 USD which is did buy.  It's like the most popular OBD2 app of the many out there.  Excellent app and updated frequently.    And the app even comes with around a dozen pre-made data screen specifically for EV's...LOTS of traction battery monitoring info...LOTS and LOTS. 

 

The only difference the free and pro version is the Pro version don't bother you will advertising and allows you to make/modified OBD2 data screens.  Definitely spend the $5 on the pro version, but  like I said the free version is pretty much the same as the pro version except for advertising and in-ability to make/modified OBD2 data screens/readouts which is very easy to do on the Pro version.   See some snapshots below of the Car Scanner app although I think the snapshot/video is showing the free version.  The Pro version will have "Pro" in the name also.

 

I need to go right now but later this evening I will provide a recommendation on what OBD2 adapter(s) to consider buying off of Lazada/Shopee.  Low cost adapter...works just fine.   I got a story to go along with the recommendation.   Later....

 

 

 

 

[CLW]

4 hours ago, KhunLA said:

One needs to damage it ASAP, so it's below the SoH level, before the warranty is up, so they replace it for free 

Probably he's trying to do that

[Captain Flack]

An off topic comment and reply has been removed, to prevent any future bickering.

 

If you report a post, please do then further deflect the discussion, by posting your own attack in reply.