11 minutes ago, matchar said:

I thought the whole point of the 12V LFP batteries is they are supposed to last much longer.

 

My lead acid batteries usually last longer than 2 years.

 

Do you have to pay for the replacement?

 

I didn't pay to replace it.

 

They detected a bit of swelling. They said it should be fine but recommended replacement just to be sure.

8 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

I didn't pay to replace it.

 

They detected a bit of swelling. They said it should be fine but recommended replacement just to be sure.

That's good, was it covered under the warranty? Usually 12V batteries and other consumables are excluded from most warranties.

 

Also do you park in the sun regularly?

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

At our BYD Seal's 2 year service they said they wanted to change our 12v Li battery, so we are at BYD getting that done and doing the Lifetime warranty inspection. We won't bother doing it for the BYD M6 as we might be changing soon!

 

You haven't had the M6 for very long, right?

What has caused you to want to offload the M6?...issues with the card?

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

You haven't had the M6 for very long, right?

What has caused you to want to offload the M6?...issues with the card?

 

Did you see my post above about my wife lusting over the Chery V23?

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

At our BYD Seal's 2 year service they said they wanted to change our 12v Li battery, so we are at BYD getting that done and doing the Lifetime warranty inspection. We won't bother doing it for the BYD M6 as we might be changing soon!

 

 

 

They replaced my 12 V battery at the service this week too, it sounds like it might be a common issue, or a recall type instruction.

13 minutes ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

Did you see my post above about my wife lusting over the Chery V23?

Yea...but I took from that you were just going to add a V23 to your current Seal and M6 fleet.  3 EVs is better than 2, right?  🙂

 

I went to the motor expo twice this week and the Chery booth had a ton of people checking out their vehicles.  I sat in a couple of them including the V23.  They are nice looking vehicles/jeep type vehicles if liking a boxy shape like the V23...but some of them also seemed kinda like a colorful toy.   Just so many brands/models at the motor expo it can overload the brain in what a person likes and dislikes.

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

Yea...but I took from that you were just going to add a V23 to your current Seal and M6 fleet.  3 EVs is better than 2, right?  🙂

 

I went to the motor expo twice this week and the Chery booth had a ton of people checking out their vehicles.  I sat in a couple of them including the V23.  They are nice looking vehicles/jeep type vehicles if liking a boxy shape like the V23...but some of them also seemed kinda like a colorful toy.   Just so many brands/models at the motor expo it can overload the brain in what a person likes and dislikes.

 

We both really love the Seal so we plan to keep it long term. The M6 is a practical second vehicle and our 2 year old does an excellent job of trashing it so we will probably keep it for a bit yet until that phase is over. 

+1 for the 12v battery change on a Seal.

They changed mine Nov 14th for my 2 year service.

 

I had been seeing some signs, some erratic messages and some settings not remaining set !

 

 

All good since the change.

 

Bookings after "9 of 13 days of Motor Expo 2025 which runs 28 Nov -13 Dec 2025.    See weblink below for full details.  I also included a partial quote below regarding the mid-to high-end premium/luxury car segment....note the Chinese manufacturers are beating-out the European manufacturers. 

https://www.car250.com/motor-expo-2025-2568-9.html

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

Bookings after "9 of 13 days of Motor Expo 2025 which runs 28 Nov -13 Dec 2025.    See weblink below for full details.  I also included a partial quote below regarding the mid-to high-end premium/luxury car segment....note the Chinese manufacturers are beating-out the European manufacturers. 

https://www.car250.com/motor-expo-2025-2568-9.html

 

 

 

 

 

Clearly who ever produced this article has lost the plot how can the sales of cars in Thailand "coach European customers"

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Clearly who ever produced this article has lost the plot how can the sales of cars in Thailand "coach European customers"

 

The dramatic Thai automotive press often use phrases that machine translation cannot match so it throws in its best guess.

 

My suggestion.

 

This figure reflects that Chinese premium EV's are starting to seriously compete for European car customers
 

43 minutes ago, Fruit Trader said:

 

The dramatic Thai automotive press often use phrases that machine translation cannot match so it throws in its best guess.

 

My suggestion.

 

This figure reflects that Chinese premium EV's are starting to seriously compete for European car customers
 

I would have thought this phrase would be better

These figures  reflects that Chinese premium EV's are starting to seriously compete for Chinese based European car manufacturers

as we all know there different import tariffs for cars produced in China compared to cars produced in Europe

so it not an straight level playing field

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Clearly who ever produced this article has lost the plot how can the sales of cars in Thailand "coach European customers"

I’ll toss in the word “poach” as what “coach” was intended to be.

43 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

I’ll toss in the word “poach” as what “coach” was intended to be.

That doesn't make any sense how could  the sales of cars in Thailand  poach European customers

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Clearly who ever produced this article has lost the plot how can the sales of cars in Thailand "coach European customers"

 

It just a translation thing.  When using google translate I've found the translation can change slightly sometimes each time the translation is done.   And if using a mobile phone to scan and then translate the quality of the scan can sometimes significantly change key words...key words that change the implied meaning. 

 

But anyway, I just went to the car250 website at 8:21pm and they now have an 8 Dec article on same subject...it's reporting 10 of 13 days of sales vs the earlier 7 Dec article which reported/talked 9 of 13 days of sales.  Updated sales numbers with one more day of sales and updated some verbiage to include the paragraph we are talking about.

 

 

https://www.car250.com/motor-expo-2025-2568-10.html

 

Partial quote from above 8 Dec article.

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

I would have thought this phrase would be better

These figures  reflects that Chinese premium EV's are starting to seriously compete for Chinese based European car manufacturers

as we all know there different import tariffs for cars produced in China compared to cars produced in Europe

so it not an straight level playing field

 

Agree regarding the translation...what the article wanted to say but maybe used the wrong wording in their efforts to pump-out many articles per day.

 

Also agree it's not a level field due to import fees on vehicles made in certain countries  and also the fact Chinese vehicle manufacturers are making some durn good cars now.  Yes, they may have copied/reversed engineered vehicle technology from other countries but regardless that copying/reverse engineering is resulting in very good vehicle quality combined with zero-to-low import fees under the China-Thailand  Trade Agreement.  Oh yea, Chinese vehicle manufacturers are definitely aggressively pricing their vehicles to gain market share from Japanese/European manufactures.  The "playing field" is more like a "battle field" right now.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

It just a translation thing.  When using google translate I've found the translation can change slightly sometimes each time the translation is done.   And if using a mobile phone to scan and then translate the quality of the scan can sometimes significantly change key words...key words that change the implied meaning. 

 

But anyway, I just went to the car250 website at 8:21pm and they now have an 8 Dec article on same subject...it's reporting 10 of 13 days of sales vs the earlier 7 Dec article which reported/talked 9 of 13 days of sales.  Updated sales numbers with one more day of sales and updated some verbiage to include the paragraph we are talking about.

 

 

https://www.car250.com/motor-expo-2025-2568-10.html

 

Partial quote from above 8 Dec article.

Once again it should read 

Chinese based European car manufacturers

as we all know there different import tariffs for cars produced in China compared to cars produced in Europe

so it not an straight level playing field

import tariffs into Thailand on European cars produced in Europe range from 80% to 300% huge difference

on cars imported from China

 

•  
• Quote

Another interesting stat/chart from the 8 Dec car250 article....shows how Chinese vehicle manufactures are now dominating in new car sales right now---at least during the Motor Expo 2025.

 

On 12/5/2025 at 10:59 AM, CLW said:

Still astonishing how Toyota can persuade customers to buy their ICE cars. Who with his right mind would buy an ICE car nowadays?

I'd prefer a manual GR Yaris over most EVs any day. Manual GR86 would be okay too. But both are stupid money here (THB 3.5 mil and THB 3 mil). If only Subaru still made the WRX STI. 

 

https://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/gr-yaris

 

To keep on topic - I bought an Atto 3 when it was launched and still have it, paying the last instalment of 3-year financing next week. Still running the original Batman Atlas tyres as well. Great car for urban use and if - like all EVs - you can charge at home. 

 

But I do still like the convenience of ICE for those longer journeys (bought a secondhand Volvo XC40 which is very comfortable and handles okay after swapping out stock shocks for something a bit stiffer). 

 

 

38 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

To keep on topic - I bought an Atto 3 when it was launched and still have it, paying the last instalment of 3-year financing next week. Still running the original Batman Atlas tyres as well. Great car for urban use and if - like all EVs - you can charge at home. 

 

But I do still like the convenience of ICE for those longer journeys (bought a secondhand Volvo XC40 which is very comfortable and handles okay after swapping out stock shocks for something a bit stiffer). 

 

 

Yeap....the Atto 3 is a very good EV....I've now had my 2023 Atto Extended range for 2 years 2 months....and 55,640km.  And it's also still running the original Batman Atlas tires which will probably make it to at least 80,000km. 

 

The great majority of my driving is within 75km "radius" of my Bangkok home, but every few weeks the wife and I do longer trips (site seeing) in the 300 to 450km round-trip ballpark.   If I keep my speed at 90km or below during such site seeing trips I can get a real world range of little over 400Km....sometimes a little over 420km. 

 

I usually leave with a 100% charge and if traveling over 350km I will usually stop somewhere for one quick 15 minutes or so top-up charge just to play it super safe SOC-wise....normally do such a charge during a bathroom/feed-my-face stop.  Thailand now has many, many DC chargers along major roadways (and more everyday) and I'm registered with 12 different charging networks/apps that covers around 90% of the available DC chargers in Thailand....so finding a charger is a non-issue. 

 

 

40 minutes ago, Pib said:

The great majority of my driving is within 75km "radius" of my Bangkok home, but every few weeks the wife and I do longer trips (site seeing) in the 300 to 450km round-trip ballpark.   If I keep my speed at 90km or below during such site seeing trips I can get a real world range of little over 400Km....sometimes a little over 420km. 

 

You must have the patience of a saint to keep at or below 90 kmh. I regularly go Bangkok-Jomtien and back: if I use the Atto, 110-120 kmh on the highway gives real range of c. 330 km. I don't find much difference whether it's set in Sport, Normal or Eco. 

 

I also don't have the patience to register with 12 different charging apps. I just stick with the PTT one. 

10 hours ago, vinny41 said:

That doesn't make any sense how could  the sales of cars in Thailand  poach European customers

Vinny, the correct quote with my suggestion is:

“The figures reflect how premium EV’s from China are starting to seriously POACH European customers”

“Poach” makes perfect sense and fits the context of the article.

39 minutes ago, HighPriority said:

Vinny, the correct quote with my suggestion is:

“The figures reflect how premium EV’s from China are starting to seriously POACH European customers”

“Poach” makes perfect sense and fits the context of the article.

Complete Rubbish as the article was related to Motor show sales in Thailand which have no impact on European customers

9 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

I'd prefer a manual GR Yaris over most EVs any day. Manual GR86 would be okay too. But both are stupid money here (THB 3.5 mil and THB 3 mil). If only Subaru still made the WRX STI. 

 

https://www.evo.co.uk/toyota/gr-yaris

 

To keep on topic - I bought an Atto 3 when it was launched and still have it, paying the last instalment of 3-year financing next week. Still running the original Batman Atlas tyres as well. Great car for urban use and if - like all EVs - you can charge at home. 

 

But I do still like the convenience of ICE for those longer journeys (bought a secondhand Volvo XC40 which is very comfortable and handles okay after swapping out stock shocks for something a bit stiffer). 

 

 

 

Have you tried the Seal Performance?  From what you said it sounds like your kind of car.  Comfortable but a hypercar performance go-kart when you want it to be.

 

 

14 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Complete Rubbish as the article was related to Motor show sales in Thailand which have no impact on European customers

 

Regarding use of the word "coach".  I get what they are saying, a coach synonym is teach.  Europe doesn't have the Chinese luxury brands, but they are being taught what is likely to happen when they do by what is currently happening in Thailand.

31 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Have you tried the Seal Performance?  From what you said it sounds like your kind of car.  Comfortable but a hypercar performance go-kart when you want it to be.

 

 

 

Regarding use of the word "coach".  I get what they are saying, a coach synonym is teach.  Europe doesn't have the Chinese luxury brands, but they are being taught what is likely to happen when they do by what is currently happening in Thailand.

There are a number of Chinese  automotive luxury brands in Europe 

Nio started selling in Norway in 2021 

cars are priced between euros 80,000 upwards

HiPhi over 100,000 euros

Zeekr 60,000 euros

Byd seal top of range sells for £48,000 in the UK

11 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

But I do still like the convenience of ICE for those longer journeys

 

If you drive a BYD there will almost certainly be a BYD dealership on your route. You can see how many chargers are free on the app and it's plug and charge as the charger recognises the car. You have access to the customer lounge and facilities.

 

 

 

12 hours ago, Pib said:

Yeap....the Atto 3 is a very good EV....I've now had my 2023 Atto Extended range for 2 years 2 months....and 55,640km.  And it's also still running the original Batman Atlas tires which will probably make it to at least 80,000km. 

 

The great majority of my driving is within 75km "radius" of my Bangkok home, but every few weeks the wife and I do longer trips (site seeing) in the 300 to 450km round-trip ballpark.   If I keep my speed at 90km or below during such site seeing trips I can get a real world range of little over 400Km....sometimes a little over 420km. 

 

I usually leave with a 100% charge and if traveling over 350km I will usually stop somewhere for one quick 15 minutes or so top-up charge just to play it super safe SOC-wise....normally do such a charge during a bathroom/feed-my-face stop.  Thailand now has many, many DC chargers along major roadways (and more everyday) and I'm registered with 12 different charging networks/apps that covers around 90% of the available DC chargers in Thailand....so finding a charger is a non-issue. 

 

 

 

11 hours ago, BKKBike09 said:

 

You must have the patience of a saint to keep at or below 90 kmh. I regularly go Bangkok-Jomtien and back: if I use the Atto, 110-120 kmh on the highway gives real range of c. 330 km. I don't find much difference whether it's set in Sport, Normal or Eco. 

 

I also don't have the patience to register with 12 different charging apps. I just stick with the PTT one. 

 

 

I didn't say I keep below 90kmh on my trips....I said "If I keep  my speed at or below 90kmh on my site seeing trips....."    But in real life in my longer trips which so far have reached out to around a 225km 'radius" of my Bangkok home I end-up averaging a speed that is below 90kmh for two reasons: 1) it's a site seeing trip and if able to drive at 120kmh a person can't soak-up as much in the view...and 2) generally a person simply can't maintain a 120kmh for very long on the roads/with traffic around the greater Bangkok region or on most province roads.....yes, if you are doing back and forth runs from Bangkok-Jonteim on #7 motorway for a good portion of that run you could go 120kmh although when I made the trip around 3 months ago the traffic was so heavy a 120kmh speed simply wasn't possible except for short stretches due to heavy traffic for the great majority of the run....I would go 120kmh whenever possible since there is not a lot to see along #7 nor much of nothing to stop for.    But yea, when a person is able to drive over 90kmh for long stretches an EV's range (any EV) will drop by around 15 to 30%...just the technical nature of current day EVs.

 

Recommend signing up with some more charging apps other than just PTT as signup literally just takes a few minutes....this will provide a ton more DC/AC charging locations....should completely eliminate range anxiety for most anyone.     Below is the 12 charging networks I'm signed up with (and actually I'm signed up with one more--"Power Envision"--that uses it's LINE official account for an app versus a standalone Android/Apple app.  A person definitely don't need to signup with a dozen charging network but I did it over the last two years partly "just to be doing it/provide crossfeed on charging apps", it was so easy, sometimes I did it just for "parking rights" in certain malls, and around the Bangkok area there are many charging networks/chargers an easily test.  But outside of the Bangkok region some of the smaller charging networks may not have a chargers where you do a lot of driving.

 

I would recommend each and every Thailand EV owner signup with at least these 5 charging network apps (signup is quick and easy) for long trips or around town charging:  PTT, ReverSharger, Elexa, PEA, and EA Anywhere.    Signing up with Spark EV would be good also in order to take advantage of their frequent promotions but since almost all Spark EV chargers are now also shown/useable from within the ReverSharger app a person doesn't need to use the Spark app to use Spark chargers that are expanding rapidly.   

 

And for others listening in just because you see Rever (the official distribution of BYD vehicles in Thailand) in the ReverSharger name, it is open to anyone and everyone.  ReverSharger is not snobbish like the MG charging network/app which requires a person to own a MG vehicle in order to use register/use its charging network of around 175-200 DC chargers around Thailand....plus, I rarely see anyone other than taxis using MG chargers since other charging networks have more powerful DC chargers and better locations.

 

 

 

I don't know if these will make it down to Thailand, but they look fun:  Wuling convertibles.

 

 

Hardtop models cost around $5000 USD here in China.  I'll be looking for the ragtops at the next car show I attend for real pricing.  Interwebs claims $14,000 USD, but that's an export price in other countries.

 

Edit:  Wuling is owned by SAIC, which also owns MG.  At least, that's what the interwebs say.

Have you noticed the hidden giant here: The "Geely Ecosystem"

If you look closely at the data, the fragmentation of Chinese brands masks the true scale of the disruption.

If we aggregate the Geely Holding Group brands from that list, the picture changes:

    Geely (No. 6): 3,151 units

    Zeekr (No. 15): 871 units

    Volvo (No. 29): 217 units

    Geely Riddara (No. 26): 336 units (Electric Pickup)

    Lotus (Unlisted/Low Vol): N/A

Total Geely Group: ~4,575 units. Technical Implication: This effectively places Geely at No. 2, surpassing Honda (4,340 units) and BYD (4,292 units).

 

 

 

There are many good reasons to buy an ICE car. The most obvious is the economics for those that dont do many KMs a year, most substantial when it comes to hybrids that can do 18-24km/L. The insurance is much cheaper offsetting the Oil change requirements.

it is even cheaper to own a Yaris Ativ HEV than an EV car. you pay at least 10,000 baht more for insurance, but the oil changes and maintenance yearly is always going to be less than that.

 

 

WOW, the Zeekr is mind blowing! I was hooked with the IM6, but the Zeekr 7X is so much nicer! 

I always wanted a car with digital side mirrors! I might have it one day 🙂 

Yea, Geely is a 800 pound guerrila in the Chinese vehicle manufacturers....own several premium brands of vehicles like you listed above....that was one reason I became interested in the Zeekr line.  I have been slobbering over a Zeekr 7X also.  I visited the Motor Expo 2025 three times and spent a lot of time at the Zeekr booth looking at the 7X Standard RWD (Bt1.4M) , 7X Long Range RWD (Bt1.6M), and 7X Performance AWD (Bt1.8M)....setting in them....playing with the controls/settings/etc. 

 

Even visited a Zeekr dealershp about 15 minutes from my western Bangkok home, got to speak to a sales lady that had great English, but I intentionally didn't do a test drive....told her of my interest in the 7X, visits to the Expo, and how I was really just visiting her dealership to see if it was just a showroom or also a service center...turns out it's both.  I wanted to make sure any vehicle I buy has local service center support capability instead of only being a showroom.

 

Anyway, after my visitss at this point in time of the three 7X models the Long Range RWD is the one I prefer.  The 7X AWD scares me a little due to its air suspension system as air suspension systems can require deep pockets to repair after the warranty expires.  Also the AWD automatic doors is a little over the top for me.   The Zeekr 7X series has a 5 year 150,000km basic warranty and an 8 year 180,000Km battery/drive warranty---but no "lifetime" warranty (yet).   Maybe as  a premium brand Zeekr will have to follow-up with a lifetime warranty to keep up with competition.  

 

https://www.zeekrlife.com/en-th/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeekr