Shakedown at CW

[Lemsta69]

43 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

As a Thai, I would need a lot more than $15k to retire in the UK. 

$500k I think. 

If I didnt have it, I'd not break the law. 

The regulations are lax here, a lot of entitled people thinking they can buy a visa. 

 

 

but in the UK and other high wage you can work and make decent money even if you're illegal. the reverse isn't true here because wages are kept low by the elites. who happen to be Thai last time I looked. all headed up by .... well you know we can't go there. amazing Thailand ????

 

 

[ukrules]

10 hours ago, proton said:

It's the law though

We all know they make it up as they go here.

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, Neeranam said:

The regulations are lax here, a lot of entitled people thinking they can buy a visa.

I bought my last couple of visas, they cost 500k each.

[KannikaP]

2 hours ago, Nickelbeer said:

Shockingly naive question. I live on my income. It would take me YEARS to save up 800 thousand baht. According to IO, this way IS legal. It is the same stamp I have gotten since I first came here. My passport never leaves the Jomtien office. Some retirees bring huge sums of liquid cash with them when they retire. All I have is my monthly income which was fine until they stopped issuing statutory declarations of income at the American Embassy. The attitude of many on this forum seems to be "Don't come here to retire unless you have a large sum of money to park in a dodgy bank." Sheer elitism.

If your 80k per month shows as a Foreign Transfer, then you have no worries. 

[Jack1988]

2 hours ago, proton said:

The extension the agent got was from a different province from the one he lived in, illegally issued.

A friend of mine use agent every year. He just has to change TM 30 and he never had a problem at immigration. And they cannot know you're using an agent unless you don't tell them. You can live everywhere in Thailand and you can apply for extension at every immigration office. Keep in mind that Thailand is all corruption. My Thai wife even says that

Edited May 11, 2022 by Jack1988

[Tod Daniels]

Sure reads like the slow motion train wreck that it is and it also appears that the whole ordeal is "self inflicted" by taking the easy out and using an agent for the years they did.

Any immigration officer looking at the stamps in the passport AND the data keyed into the computer would know that those were under the table, back door, stamps at an immigration office outta province.

I highly doubt they even knew WHERE their extensions were issued (Khon Kaen, Kalisin, Roi Et, Nakhon Sawan, are all GIANT flags especially for someone living in Bangkok.  

I had one person I was with at Chaengwattana with an agent gotten extension who kept saying he got his own extension in Roi Et last year, the officer asked him the address (which if you lived there and got an extension there you would know) As he hemmed and hawed she asked me in thai if he even knew where Roi Et was? Finally he admitted it was an agent, stamp, we had to file a new TM30, get a note from his thai landlord saying he lives where he does, copy her i/d card, get the 800 baht fine for no TM30, get the 2000baht fine for no 90 day report and then she said he could apply for the extension in bangkok (just an aside he more than met the financial requirements) Funny thing was once we got him 'above the table' the next year he went right back to an agent and got a b/s outta province stamp again. 

This is the problem that people face using agents/agencies. Once you start down that slippery slope (doing business under the table) it's REALLY hard to get back up and start doing business above the table.

Of the many many hundreds of people I know who use agents/agencies I only know of a handful that were able to claw their way back on top of the table and get their own extensions without greasing the wheel.

Just because the O/P has a Chaengwattana stamp now doesn't mean that next year they're not going to have to 'grease the wheel' again to get the next extension, I'd wager he's a 'marked man' out there now.

To the O/P, glad it worked out, not really a 'shake down', because you could have taken the exit the country option, came back, applied for an in country Non-O visa above the table for 2000baht and then after that applied for the year extension for 1900. You didn't choose that route      

[Guest truthman]

59 minutes ago, tod-daniels said:

Sure reads like the slow motion train wreck that it is and it also appears that the whole ordeal is "self inflicted" by taking the easy out and using an agent for the years they did.

Any immigration officer looking at the stamps in the passport AND the data keyed into the computer would know that those were under the table, back door, stamps at an immigration office outta province.

I highly doubt they even knew WHERE their extensions were issued (Khon Kaen, Kalisin, Roi Et, Nakhon Sawan, are all GIANT flags especially for someone living in Bangkok.  

I had one person I was with at Chaengwattana with an agent gotten extension who kept saying he got his own extension in Roi Et last year, the officer asked him the address (which if you lived there and got an extension there you would know) As he hemmed and hawed she asked me in thai if he even knew where Roi Et was? Finally he admitted it was an agent, stamp, we had to file a new TM30, get a note from his thai landlord saying he lives where he does, copy her i/d card, get the 800 baht fine for no TM30, get the 2000baht fine for no 90 day report and then she said he could apply for the extension in bangkok (just an aside he more than met the financial requirements) Funny thing was once we got him 'above the table' the next year he went right back to an agent and got a b/s outta province stamp again. 

This is the problem that people face using agents/agencies. Once you start down that slippery slope (doing business under the table) it's REALLY hard to get back up and start doing business above the table.

Of the many many hundreds of people I know who use agents/agencies I only know of a handful that were able to claw their way back on top of the table and get their own extensions without greasing the wheel.

Just because the O/P has a Chaengwattana stamp now doesn't mean that next year they're not going to have to 'grease the wheel' again to get the next extension, I'd wager he's a 'marked man' out there now.

To the O/P, glad it worked out, not really a 'shake down', because you could have taken the exit the country option, came back, applied for an in country Non-O visa above the table for 2000baht and then after that applied for the year extension for 1900. You didn't choose that route      

You don't have to "claw" your way back in. Put the money in the bank, leave it there for a year, and go apply yourself. That's it. If they give you a hard time, go to an agent that can assist you. If you have all your documents, it shouldn't cost more than 8,000 baht. Then you're in the system for good.

[flexomike]

15 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

My TM-30 is Rayong province, used an agent and got extension in Jomtein. This year did it myself in Rayong, no problem. So, the argument about extension must come from your home province isn't accurate.

 

 

OP didn't have a TM 30 for Bangkok part of the problem

[EVENKEEL]

1 hour ago, tod-daniels said:

To the O/P, glad it worked out, not really a 'shake down', because you could have taken the exit the country option, came back, applied for an in country Non-O visa above the table for 2000baht and then after that applied for the year extension for 1900. You didn't choose that route      

When you apply for Non-O visa in Thailand you must show 800K in the bank, when you apply for extension you can go the monthly deposit route.

Edited May 12, 2022 by EVENKEEL

[KannikaP]

43 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

When you apply for Non-O visa in Thailand you must show 800K in the bank, when you apply for extension you can go the monthly deposit route.

And do what with the 800k? You would still have to 'import' 65k a month as well as money to live on.

Try the Combination Method if accepted, and leave say 200k in the bank and transfer 50k monthly = 800k per year.

Or of course, you could send the 800k back to where it came from and do it back to Thailand monthly @ 65k.

[Caldera]

2 hours ago, tod-daniels said:

Of the many many hundreds of people I know who use agents/agencies I only know of a handful that were able to claw their way back on top of the table and get their own extensions without greasing the wheel.

Why? Unless the "many many hundreds of people" (lol) you know all tried that during Covid travel restrictions, they could have just left the country for a few days and started over fresh. What you actually mention yourself as an alternative in your last paragraph.

 

No need to make it sound so dramatic. I'd suspect most people who don't "claw their way back" either don't meet the financial requirements or simply don't care.

[thailand49]

I've heard this before legal or not legal having a stamp done by an agent in one province then doing it yourself in another then getting a big surprise?  

Based on their story prior to the refusal there was baht kicked out I think 12000 was not much to clean it up if in fact it is cleaned up? ????

 

[easydoor]

Immigration was compleet correct by refusing your extension. You, after 16 years in Thailand, doesn't know you must have a personal account. In case everything is correct you don't need an agent at all. People, knowing they are not correct  are using an agent and become dependent on them. It is well known, but, this you also seems to not known, you have to make your extension at the immigration office were you live and what is on your TM30.  As soon you show up with an extension, made somewhere else, the immigration officer knows already there is something wrong, they are not idiots as you think. Don't complain now, the only one to blame is YOU yourself.

[EVENKEEL]

4 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

And do what with the 800k? You would still have to 'import' 65k a month as well as money to live on.

Try the Combination Method if accepted, and leave say 200k in the bank and transfer 50k monthly = 800k per year.

Or of course, you could send the 800k back to where it came from and do it back to Thailand monthly @ 65k.

In my case I was getting ready to buy a new car and brought over 1.6M thb, used that for initial Non-0 90 day and by that time I had my 12 mos of monthly deposits of 65K + for 12 mos extension.

 

If all that wouldn't work I had an agent lined up. But I'm set now and legit. Not that using an agent isn't legit. I used one last time.

[mtls2005]

18 hours ago, Robbie63 said:

Well spoiler alert I paid the 12,000 baht

How was this money exchanged?

 

Was there an intermediary or third-party?

 

I'm assuming there was no receipt?

 

 

Police visit Chon Buri immigration, warn staff “don’t take bribes”

 

Police have paid Chon Buri’s immigration office a rather tense visit on Thursday to deliver a 9 point checklist to staff. Thai media reported that #8 on the list of demands was “Get off your phones and don’t take bribes”, as ordered by the lieutenant general leading the visit.

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/chon-buri/police-visit-chon-buri-immigration-warn-staff-dont-take-bribes

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

16 hours ago, KannikaP said:

So YES, it was fake. The extension must be done in the province where you live, and have a TM30.

Go on holiday for a week, hotel does TM30 (as legally required), extend VISA while there, job done. As far as I can see there is no 'minimum time' to live in an area required to get a retirement extension. 

Edited May 12, 2022 by BritManToo

[Longreach]

How do u hand over thousands in cash inside an immigration office?

No brides signs, everybody witnessing this.......

[skatewash]

8 minutes ago, Longreach said:

How do u hand over thousands in cash inside an immigration office?

No brides signs, everybody witnessing this.......

Folded newspaper.

[Thalueng]

In all the years I'm living here I never had a problem with immigration, nor was I or anybody else I know ever asked for money other than the official fees.

If we assume that 800k are required each year to make sure you will not cost the government any money while staying here, then an agent basically forwards the 800k for 2.25% per year which is 18k. Not bad actually, nobody else will forward you such an amount of money for so little. 

[mtls2005]

13 minutes ago, Longreach said:

How do u hand over thousands in cash inside an immigration office?

No brides signs, everybody witnessing this.......

Pastry box is the preferred method.

 

Seriously, this is why I asked this question.

 

There were tip jars at CW, before big joke "clamped down". It wasn't the bribery/corruption thing that was shocking, but the tip jars just looked so, well cheap and vulgar. And staff had "seeded" them.

 

Looked some big old 10 L re-purposed mayonnaise container.

[Neeranam]

The whole system needs flushed of corruption. It makes me angry all the illegal immigrants here going on about how they used agent so and so when they couldn't satisfy the financial requirements to be allowed to stay in the Kingdom. These guys are making it much worse for the honest expats here, who satisfy immigration requirements.

Rogue immigration officers work in conjunction with agents, who are plain criminals. Yes, there are legal agents, but they don't falsify bank books or pay immigration officers in far away offices 15,000 baht for a 1900 baht visa extension. They just help you gather the necessary documents and maybe grease the wheels a little. 

if you have any integrity, and want to make your immigration life easier, report those illegals agents, IOs, and the ones that make it happen, the foreign illegals. 

 

What you allow, you condone.

 

I wonder what you say about illegal immigrants in your own countries. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Neeranam

[KannikaP]

24 minutes ago, Longreach said:

How do u hand over thousands in cash inside an immigration office?

No brides signs, everybody witnessing this.......

So don't take her with you!

[Nickelbeer]

7 hours ago, proton said:

Just the stink of local corruption, you got an extension where you lived, many don't. 

When the corruption benefits me, I am  happy to take advantage of it. I have gotten nothing

that others didn't get previously before they changed the rules. The "money in the bank" method is a gigantic ripoff, because you cannot spend the money that is parked in a Thai bank. All my savings were put into an an annuity which pays out until I die. The other income is from Social Security and Alabama State Teacher's Retirement. Not everyone who comes to Thailand has a lump sum that they can allow to sit in a Thai bank drawing a low amount of interest. We live on our income. We begin to spend it the moment it arrives in our bank account in America. The noise being made by some IO functionaries is just window dressing to keep their superiors happy. They have no intention of turning down "tea money", if the farang wants to live in Thailand. That said, the Philippines is looking like the way to go. They don't change their visa regulations much over time and foreigners are welcome rather than a target of suspicion. They even reward you for marrying a local woman, whereas Thailand makes the visa process much more difficult if you are married to a Thai woman. They want constant documentation of your marriage status because they don't keep records like most government agencies in other countries. They don't even seem to understand the concept of a "database". 90 day reports are not required. You only need to file a change of address form if you move.

[deadbeat]

Sorry to hear about your problems, I had similar but not as expensive.

Small mistakes can be costly but now you at least are on the right track for the future.

Btw, Kbank does my statement readouts in about 20 mins.

[Neeranam]

1 minute ago, Nickelbeer said:

They even reward you for marrying a local woman, whereas Thailand makes the visa process much more difficult if you are married to a Thai woman.

Nonsense. 

 

I was on a marriage/dependent extension for years. I had to go to the immigration office once a year to show my 200/400k in the bank. 

 

I really don't understand how many say it is hard, especially retirees, who have all the time in the world, yet when it comes to spending a couple of hours at immigration(per year)............. I'd be glad to get out and interact with some people. 

[Nickelbeer]

27 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The whole system needs flushed of corruption. It makes me angry all the illegal immigrants here going on about how they used agent so and so when they couldn't satisfy the financial requirements to be allowed to stay in the Kingdom. These guys are making it much worse for the honest expats here, who satisfy immigration requirements.

Rogue immigration officers work in conjunction with agents, who areplain criminals. Yes, there are legal agents, but they don't falsify bank books or pay immigration officers in far away offices 15,000 baht for a 1900 baht visa extension. They just help you gather the necessary documents and maybe grease the wheels a little. 

if you have any integrity, and want to make your immigration life easier, report those illegals agents, IOs, and the ones that make it happen, the foreign illegals. 

 

What you allow, you condone.

 

I wonder what you say about illegal immigrants in your own countries. 

The analogy is flawed. Illegal immigrants that come to the USA, generally are living at the edge of poverty, while expats who come to live in Thailand, make much more than the locals. That money is spent at Thai businesses and keeps many Thais employed. The difference is obvious. There is NO commonality between immigrants in the USA and those who come to Thailand to live.

[mtls2005]

12 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

The whole system needs flushed of corruption.

The remaining three thais would be overwhelmed.

 

 

[Neeranam]

Just now, Nickelbeer said:

The analogy is flawed. Illegal immigrants that come to the USA, generally are living at the edge of poverty, while expats who come to live in Thailand, make much more than the locals. That money is spent at Thai businesses and keeps many Thais employed. The difference is obvious. There is NO commonality between immigrants in the USA and those who come to Thailand to live.

Illegal immigrants that can't show an income of $2000 a month are not rich in any terms.  Most my local friends and family earn much more than that.

You have a Colonial attitude and are living in the past. 

[BritManToo]

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Illegal immigrants that can't show an income of $2000 a month are not rich in any terms.  Most my local friends and family earn much more than that.

You have a Colonial attitude and are living in the past. 

I've not had an income in excess of $2,000/month since the year 2000.

But I've managed to live without working while supporting a family and kids for the last 22 years. My definition of 'rich' isn't working 60-70hrs a week to support huge debt repayments, while worrying that a month of illness will wipe you out.

 

Rich, IMHO, is being able to live without having to work.

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by BritManToo

[FalangJaiDee]

You got off easy