Pfizer Vaccine Fades Against Omicron in a Few Weeks

[Danderman123]

Pfizer’s Covid Vaccine Protection Against Omicron Fades Just Weeks After Second And Third Doses, Study Finds

 

I got my Pfizer shot as a booster for AZ last month. I am sure many of us have the same combination. So, our protection against Omicron is going to be a distant memory.

 

I guess some would argue that T-cell immunity is more important than having antibody protection, but that’s a question for scientists.

[TorquayFan]

Danderman - couldn't get into your link due to an ad-blocker but your news is bad as it means that Pfizer as a 4th dose now makes little sense - is it played out? We are still awaiting news of 4th doses of vaccines other than Pfizer?

 

I couldn't access your link due to an ad blocker but saw this before - "Now that Israel has been delivering a fourth dose for several months, researchers have some data to rely on to assess its effectiveness. There are three studies that have been released so far, one which has not yet been peer-reviewed. In one study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, scientists assessed the rates of infection and severe illness after a fourth dose – or second booster – among more than a million people ages 60 and older in Israel. The researchers found that after a fourth dose, the rate of COVID-19 infection was two times lower than after a third dose. However, this protection quickly waned after six weeks."

https://www.sciencealert.com/an-epidemiologist-explains-whether-you-ll-be-needing-a-second-booster-in-the-future

 

Re this : "I guess some would argue that T-cell immunity is more important than having antibody protection, but that’s a question for scientists." With respect I think the power and duration of killer T-cells is widely acknowledged by Scientists already and crucial to some new cancer treatments for example.

[sungod]

2 shots of AZ, then I 'caught' covid, quite mild thankfully.

 

Wont be bothering with any more shots the way things stand after nature's own booster.

 

Cant hide behind these 'vaccines' for ever...

Edited May 20, 2022 by onthedarkside
misinfo comment removed

[statman78]

Interesting article.  I now understand why I had a mild case of Covid in April.  I had the J&J shot last June in the US.  Last December then again this January I got my Pfizer shots here in Thailand.  I had a little bit of a fever along with a sore throat and coughing.  The fever was gone after the first day and the rest of the symptoms were gone in 3 days.  I tested myself 2 times on day 1 and both were negative.  My wife made me retest on  day 3 and that’s when I got the positive results.  After day 3 I felt fine but continued to test positive for 5 more days.  I isolated myself until I tested negative.  My wife never got sick.

[Dogmatix]

Presumably Moderna fares little better but one of the problems of relying on T-cells alone is that each after about 40 years old we are no longer producing any more T-cells and each new COVID infection massively depletes them.  That means COVID creates a rapid aging effect on the immune system.  If this is true, it is worth getting as much antibody protection from vaccines as we can, as long as it is still even marginally effective against prevailing variants. The link below explains this theory.  Try to form your own opinions, although we have to accept that we don't have enough information.

 

https://twitter.com/KashPrime/status/1495481300219830279?t=bMN-fvC7TGpNvBVGIQoELQ&s=09

[mrfill]

Let's see deaths per vaccination status for that time period for the proof...

 

[ozimoron]

13 minutes ago, mrfill said:

Let's see deaths per vaccination status for that time period for the proof...

 

So, winter is December, January and February, right?   the graph shows a strong peak right in the middle of winter. Biden was exactly on the money. He's only repeating what his scientific advisors told him anyway. Listening to the experts I thinks its called. Makes a refreshing change.

Edited May 19, 2022 by ozimoron

[Eaglekott]

 I know two unvaccinated persons that has died from covid, Ok one passed away before Vaccine was widely available, and he had very early stage of Diabetes, died at 52 Year old,  the other one my friends son died at 24 and he was against any kind of vaccine, the rest of the family was vaccinated and just suffered from mild symptom's. He had no known underlaying conditions and was in very good health.

[Jai Dee]

A reported troll meme has been removed.

[Thingamabob]

Impossible to get un-biased info on the vaccines. I've had 2 AZ and 1 Pfizer. No reaction following the jabs apart from feeling a bit knackered but that's hardly abnormal for an old git like myself. There are, however, disturbing reports of some people experiencing fading, and some suffering extreme reactions post-vaccination.

Edited May 19, 2022 by Thingamabob

[ozimoron]

15 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Impossible to get un-biased info on the vaccines. I've had 2 AZ and 1 Pfizer. No reaction following the jabs apart from feeling a bit knackered but that's hardly abnormal for an old git like myself. There are, however, disturbing reports of some people experiencing fading, and some suffering extreme reactions post-vaccination.

There's also a few disturbing reports about people who didn't get the vaccine at all.

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Impossible to get un-biased info on the vaccines. I've had 2 AZ and 1 Pfizer. No reaction following the jabs apart from feeling a bit knackered but that's hardly abnormal for an old git like myself. There are, however, disturbing reports of some people experiencing fading, and some suffering extreme reactions post-vaccination.

So, you know that it's impossible how? You've examined the various statistical analyses performed by researchers and relevant authorities and have come to the informed opinion that their conclusions are invalid? 

[Rimmer]

Some misleading /  unattributed troll posts have been removed also replies

[Scott]

A post with false or misleading information has been reported and removed. 

[Thingamabob]

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

So, you know that it's impossible how? You've examined the various statistical analyses performed by researchers and relevant authorities and have come to the informed opinion that their conclusions are invalid? 

Not at all. Simply, in words you may be able to understand, it will take time to fully audit the outcome of the various vaccination programmes. Have a nice day.

[placeholder]

Just now, Thingamabob said:

Not at all. Simply, in words you may be able to understand, it will take time to fully audit the outcome of the various vaccination programmes. Have a nice day.

Clearly, what you're referring to is, is the alarmisn promoted by anti covid vaxxers that there could be some long term latent effects from the vaccines. No vaccine has ever been know to result in long term latent effects. But it's not at all uncommon in the case of viral infections. In fact, it turns out that those who came down with covid and seemed to make a full recovery have a higher incidence of coronary events than those who didn't. 

[sezze]

22 hours ago, sungod said:

2 shots of AZ, then I 'caught' covid, quite mild thankfully.

 

Wont be bothering with any more shots the way things stand after nature's own booster.

 

Cant hide behind these 'vaccines' for ever, everyone is going to get it at some point.

And that is why you got the vaccine .... vaccines will not repell the virus . If you do get in contact with it , you might get infected/sick . The difference is that your body now comes in contact with something it is suppose to remember , thx to the vaccine . This way , your body will react faster to find the infected cells in your body and you do get less sick . It boosts your natural own defense . Would you have been more sick when not being vaccinated , well in individual cases , it is impossible to know . In general population , yes , dramatic reduction in serious illness / death .

[KannikaP]

23 hours ago, sungod said:

2 shots of AZ, then I 'caught' covid, quite mild thankfully.

 

Wont be bothering with any more shots the way things stand after nature's own booster.

 

Cant hide behind these 'vaccines' for ever, everyone is going to get it at some point.

The vaccines ARE NOT to prevent you getting Covid, simply to minimise the effects of the virus. I had three Pfizers but still got it, but not so bad. So now my natural resistance should be higher.

[placeholder]

 There have been plenty of mainstream media reports about possible side effects and even fatalities from covid vaccinations. But, unlike the way conspiracy alarmists frame the data, they are presented in the context of the total numbers of people vaccinated and the respective percentages of those who get vaccinated vs. those who don't. It's all down to innumeracy, word popularize by a mathematician named John Paulos.

"Innumeracy refers to a lack of ability to reason with numbers. The term was coined by cognitive scientist Douglas Hofstadter; however, it was popularized in 1989 by mathematician John Allen Paulos in his book Innumeracy: Mathematical Illiteracy and its Consequences."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeracy#:~:text=Innumeracy refers to a lack,Mathematical Illiteracy and its Consequences.

[sungod]

14 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

The vaccines ARE NOT to prevent you getting Covid, simply to minimise the effects of the virus. I had three Pfizers but still got it, but not so bad. So now my natural resistance should be higher.

Dont remember saying they were there to prevent Covid? Just saying I had 2 vaccines and wont be having anymore as I had covid already.

[Road Warrior]

too much BAD publicly from media . had 2 vax NO MORE .that's it  

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

A couple of things about this OP reported study.

 

1. Antibody levels are not entirely synonymous with protection from either infection or developing serious illness death. The body's immune response to viral infections is more complicated and involved, as some posts above have alluded to. So you can't really rely on antibody level readings alone to determine a vaccine's effectiveness.

 

That's why the experts actually do studies that track and compare the percentages of people who get infected and develop illness post vaccination,  and compare those rates with infection and illness among the unvaccinated. (The vaccinated do much better than the unvaccinated in all regards).

 

Most of those kinds of studies I've seen show that the mRNA vaccines provide significant, though gradually declining, benefits out to about four months post vaccination. And that's why the current recommendations for booster shots target them four to five months after second shots.

 

2. As far as I saw in the Forbes writeup, there was no mention whatsoever about the issue of protection against "any" COVID infection vs. protection against serious illness and death from COVID -- again, because the study was only looking at antibody levels.

 

The good studies that actually track such things in the real world have shown that the current mRNA vaccines are quite effective months post vaccination at preventing serious illness and death from the Omicron variant especially with a third shot booster dose. They are, however, less effective since the advent of Omicron at preventing infections in general, compared to how they did with prior variants.

 

That's the reason many health authorities continue to recommend that people wear face masks and follow social distancing protocols in confined indoor spaces.... Because while the current mRNA vaccines especially with a third shot booster dose do a pretty good job at preventing you from getting sick or dying from COVID, they do a less good job at preventing you from becoming infected and potentially spreading the virus to others.

 

The Forbes article, BTW, finally alludes to the limitations of only looking at antibody levels toward the very end...

 

"Neutralizing antibodies have been the primary focus of studies evaluating vaccines—they are much easier to study—but they are not the only part of the immune system protecting humans against disease. Other parts of the immune system, such as T cells, might be less effective at preventing infection but they are more durable than antibodies and can reduce the chance of serious illness if infected."

 

And contrary to what the above quote claims, there have been plenty of credible, peer reviewed scientific studies evaluating the performance of COVID vaccines based on real world performance, and not merely on measuring antibody levels. 

 

The U.S. CDC and the UK Health Services agencies, among others, regularly track and publicly report on the mRNA vaccines' real-world performance.

 

Edited May 20, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Danderman123]

This will horrify some people, but I have received 7 Covid vaccinations, 4 in the USA, and 3 in Thailand.

 

If I get Covid, I will let you know.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 5/19/2022 at 8:24 AM, TorquayFan said:

Re this : "I guess some would argue that T-cell immunity is more important than having antibody protection, but that’s a question for scientists." With respect I think the power and duration of killer T-cells is widely acknowledged by Scientists already and crucial to some new cancer treatments for example.

Killer T cells are certainly important in killing off infected cells (and cancer cells)  but if you're talking about long-lasting immunity we shouldn't overlook the role of memory T cells and B cells that are also crucial to long-lasting immunity.

 

Not just antibodies: B cells and T cells mediate immunity to COVID-19

 

As this article states:

 

Quote

Recent reports that antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 are not maintained in the serum following recovery from the virus have caused alarm. However, the absence of specific antibodies in the serum does not necessarily mean an absence of immune memory. Here, we discuss our current understanding of the relative contribution of B cells and T cells to immunity to SARS-CoV-2 and the implications for the development of effective treatments and vaccines for COVID-19.

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer

[TorquayFan]

Thanks GHW. I'm no expert but I do understand it's not just the level of antibodies that matters and also that there are different types of T-cells.

 

Generally, it's early days for an authoritative take on the duration of immunity after boosters from the different vaccines but I read what there is.

 

LOL - disappointed myself that after a Moderna booster 3 months ago, (reported to increase antibody levels by 37 times), I got a second Covid infection last week, which was mild.

 

ATB

[onthedarkside]

A misinformation post has been removed, along with a post quoting a non-credible "questionable source" website.