‘America is killing itself’: world reacts with horror and incomprehension to Texas shooting

[coolcarer]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

What guns need to be banned? I assume the real scary looking ones first, yes? 

 

What guns need to be banned? 

Yes the real scary ones. the ones that scared 2 teachers and 17 children 5 days ago at Robb Elementary School. Their terror at the sight of the weapon proved to be justified when they were all shot and killed with it.

 

The scary weapon also scared the police on the scene apparently and they did not want to get shot by it, leaving the children and teachers to fend for themselves in a locked room

[KhaoYai]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

This thread is about ASSULT RIFLES, which represents a small fraction of firearms deaths. 

It most certainly is not. The words Assault or Rifle do not appear anywhere in the OP. The thread is about gun violence in the USA and the world's reaction to it in the light of the latest school shooting in the USA.

 

The reason why the world is 'reacting with horror and incomprehension' is because most of the civilised world seem to get on pretty well without guns and we just can't work out why, with kids regularly being shot and killed, Americans just won't give up their guns.

 

I couldn't care less if the killings are done with an old flintlock - they are all guns and all unecessary for the general public.  If the USA has a crime problem then the answer is to deal with that problem through the officail authorities and if they fail, its them that need sorting out - you don't fix it allowing all and sundry to carry guns.  Even responsible people make mistakes under duress - guns should not be in the public sphere.  Contrary to the views of a great many Americans - the country is not a special case.

 

You may not realise this but -  going back to the BLM riots in recent times - when the rest of the world saw ordinary citizens standing outside public buildings in full cammo gear, carrying rifles, supposedly 'defending' those buildings - they didn't think, 'good for them' - they were horrified - absolutely horrified!  But were they surprised?  I doubt it - wer'e used to seeing Americans banging their chests, carrying out testosterone fueled behaviour and thinking its impressive - its not, not in the slightest.

 

 

[Sheryl]

A number of baiting and bickering posts, and posts which distorted what others had said, have been deleted.

 

Please take a few deep breaths and calm down, everyone.

[EVENKEEL]

There's over 20 million AR 15 style rifles currently in circulation, and that represents only 5% of guns. Any meaningful gun laws will fail.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

There's over 20 million AR 15 style rifles currently in circulation, and that represents only 5% of guns. Any meaningful gun laws will fail.

Why would they fail when they have worked before in the US.

 

Stricter gun laws will save lives. Those are the facts not opinions:

 

Mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended in 2004.

 

States with weaker gun laws have higher rates of firearm related homicides and suicides, study finds

 

Common sense gun safety laws bring down gun crime by 40 percent.

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why would they fail when they have worked before in the US.

 

Stricter gun laws will save lives. Those are the facts not opinions:

 

Mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended in 2004.

 

States with weaker gun laws have higher rates of firearm related homicides and suicides, study finds

 

Common sense gun safety laws bring down gun crime by 40 percent.

 

U.S. gun suicide and gun murder rates have increased in recent years, but remain below past highs | Pew Research Center

[Sheryl]

A flaming post has been removed.

 

Please, people. If you join in this thread -- whatever your views -- you will read views you strongly disagree with. If you can't tolerate that with reasonable equanimty and civility, do yourself a favor and don't participate in the thread.

[Bkk Brian]

11 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

U.S. gun suicide and gun murder rates have increased in recent years, but remain below past highs | Pew Research Center

How does that affect my post? Particularly when gun murders are clearly rising and have been for a few years showing no signs of dipping.

 

I have no interest in people who commit suicide in this context as they are not harming others

(Image source)

 

 

[heybruce]

9 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Not by assault riles.

 

Yes, not much "national rage" ginned up by the leftist press over all the blacks shot every week, not enough political hay in it, huh? 

 

Is not shooting people against the law? 

 

I think most every law is not being sufficiently enforced.

Pick a lane and stay in it.

 

Do you want to discuss gun deaths in general in the US and defend your false claim that people only care about assault rifle deaths?

 

Or do you want to discuss assault rifles that are frequently used in large massacres?

 

You lose all credibility when you jump back and forth between the two issues when you are losing the argument on one of them.

 

It is difficult to enforce laws against shooting people when the shooters do nothing illegal until they start shooting people. 

Edited May 30, 2022 by heybruce

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

This thread is about ASSULT RIFLES, which represents a small fraction of firearms deaths. 

 

No one cares about the 95% of firearm deaths caused by weapons other than assault rifle, as they do not fit the left's election agenda.

 

If you want to discuss something that will have a significant impact on ALL gun deaths please start another thread. Until then, please make misleading statements. 

 

Please be honest, I think you know way more than ten times as many kids are killed in automobile accidents each year than with assault rifles, yes? 

You want to limit discussion to assault rifles for other posters, yet you routinely bring up the large number of deaths caused by other firearms.  Once again, pick a lane.

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, everything that does not support banning assault rifles is off-topic, and we all know it 

Your hypocrisy knows no limits.  Check your posts immediately preceding this one.  They aren't about assault rifles.

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

What specific gun laws would you like to see enacted that you feel would have the greatest impact on gun deaths? 

What?!  The "this topic is about assault rifles" poster is now asking for suggestions about rational gun laws?

 

Let me guess; once someone posts suggested laws you'll respond with "No, no, no, only laws about assault rifles!".

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Yeah, I don't remember any gun or knife fights, even though virtually everyone had guns, that's why I am convinced the problem is the guns.  

 

Incidentally, gun ownership by household in the US is lower than it was 50 years ago, but yeah, it's the guns. 

 

Source for your gun ownership claim?

 

"There are more than 393 million civilian-owned firearms in the United States, or enough for every man, woman and child to own one and still have 67 million guns left over."  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/there-are-more-guns-than-people-in-the-united-states-according-to-a-new-study-of-global-firearm-ownership/

 

I may have to take a break from identifying your false facts.  It's easier for you to invent lies than for me to show they are lies.

[SunnyinBangrak]

The left's position - We only want to ban "weapons of war" and "assault" weapons

 

The right's position - If we give in to your demands for banning semi automatic rifles it will be a foot in the door, and you will then come after handguns and leave us defenceless to protect our familes.

 

enter Joe Biden.

 

"Biden goes on anti-gun tirade, suggests there’s ‘no rational basis’ for 9mm pistols

Biden said. “A 9mm bullet blows the lung out of the body.

“So the idea of these high-caliber weapons is, uh, there’s simply no rational basis for it in terms of thinking about self-protection, hunting,” the president went on."

https://nypost.com/2022/05/30/biden-goes-on-anti-gun-tirade-suggests-theres-no-rational-basis-for-9mm-pistols/

 

Well, at least we know their real aims now.

[Credo]

54 minutes ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

The left's position - We only want to ban "weapons of war" and "assault" weapons

 

The right's position - If we give in to your demands for banning semi automatic rifles it will be a foot in the door, and you will then come after handguns and leave us defenceless to protect our familes.

 

enter Joe Biden.

 

"Biden goes on anti-gun tirade, suggests there’s ‘no rational basis’ for 9mm pistols

Biden said. “A 9mm bullet blows the lung out of the body.

“So the idea of these high-caliber weapons is, uh, there’s simply no rational basis for it in terms of thinking about self-protection, hunting,” the president went on."

https://nypost.com/2022/05/30/biden-goes-on-anti-gun-tirade-suggests-theres-no-rational-basis-for-9mm-pistols/

 

Well, at least we know their real aims now.

What is wanted is for the killing of huge numbers of people, especially children.  Unfortunately, it appears that to do that requires limits on your freedom to own a weapon of war.  So be it.   

 

[SunnyinBangrak]

1 minute ago, Credo said:

What is wanted is for the killing of huge numbers of people, especially children.  Unfortunately, it appears that to do that requires limits on your freedom to own a weapon of war.  So be it.   

 

Are you claiming that a pistol is now a "weapon of war"? Joe Biden just admitted that he wants to ban 9mm pistols too. As I suspected this whole highly coordinated outrage over so called war weaponry was just an excuse to get a foot in the door. He said there is no reason to own a 9mm pistol, I posted a link to his exact quote above.

No wonder conservatives dont trust anything the democrats say.

[EVENKEEL]

https://www.dailywire.com/news/violent-weekend-starts-off-summer-in-chicago-with-at-least-five-dead

 

Summer in Chicago began with a deadly weekend as multiple shootings left at least five dead and another 18 injured — with two days left of the Memorial Day holiday weekend.

[morrobay]

12 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

Let's say for argument sake sales of the scary looking AR-15's are banned, what about the millions already sold?

 

I had a .22 rifle at like age 12, had a .22 handgun age 15 as did many kids in the rural area I grew up. Something terrible has happened to our youth to make shooting up schools a viable response. And, thinking you can stop this insane behavior by banning scary looking guns is only a feel good measure which won't solve the problem.

Of course the horse has left the barn. So high time to deal with the whackos: online surveillance, local surveillance, and if necessary forced detention in a facility where these nutjobs can be professionally evaluated and treated before release in any undetermined time.

[HaoleBoy]

11 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Why would they fail when they have worked before in the US.

 

Stricter gun laws will save lives. Those are the facts not opinions:

 

Mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended in 2004.

 

States with weaker gun laws have higher rates of firearm related homicides and suicides, study finds

 

Common sense gun safety laws bring down gun crime by 40 percent.

Thanks for the links ...

 

10 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

U.S. gun suicide and gun murder rates have increased in recent years, but remain below past highs | Pew Research Center

Look at the rate in '04 to '20 when the assault weapon ban ended.  Clearly shows the rate is climbing.  Stricter gun laws do work.

[HaoleBoy]

As far as people advocating for strengthened / locked down schools this is absurd.  You can teach most people to use a gun, but you can't teach people to go after someone that is firing a semi-auto rifle.  Trained police in Florida and Texas would not enter the building to go after the gunman.  How do you expect faculty to do this?

 

Firing a semi-auto rifle  is LOUD.  When a lot of people go to the range they use earplugs and they are firing at targets.  Training someone to go after an active shooter takes a long time and the trained person still doesn't know if they can shoot another human being.  Many soldiers in war have learn this too ... 

 

Plus, if a faculty went after an active shooter and accidentally hit another student, how do they live with themselves after?  All the training in the world can't help faculty deal with this.

[Will B Good]

11 minutes ago, HaoleBoy said:

Thanks for the links ...

 

Look at the rate in '04 to '20 when the assault weapon ban ended.  Clearly shows the rate is climbing.  Stricter gun laws do work.

You only have to look at Japan.......it works.

[Will B Good]

In an incredible display of utter tastelessness, Donald Trump Jr. insisted in a rage-fueled video on social media Saturday that the Uvalde mass shooter could have killed 19 children and two teachers with a "bat." 

 

I wonder ........is  that the same bat that makes all the Trumps bat-**** crazy?

[James105]

4 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

The left's position - We only want to ban "weapons of war" and "assault" weapons

 

The right's position - If we give in to your demands for banning semi automatic rifles it will be a foot in the door, and you will then come after handguns and leave us defenceless to protect our familes.

 

enter Joe Biden.

 

"Biden goes on anti-gun tirade, suggests there’s ‘no rational basis’ for 9mm pistols

Biden said. “A 9mm bullet blows the lung out of the body.

“So the idea of these high-caliber weapons is, uh, there’s simply no rational basis for it in terms of thinking about self-protection, hunting,” the president went on."

https://nypost.com/2022/05/30/biden-goes-on-anti-gun-tirade-suggests-theres-no-rational-basis-for-9mm-pistols/

 

Well, at least we know their real aims now.

Yeah it seems that you have one group over there that seem to want to do whatever they can to stop little innocent kids getting slaughtered in school, and you have another group that seem to do whatever they can to ensure these little innocent kids continue to get slaughtered.   Not sure why it ended up as a left/right issue over there as the rest of the world (no matter what political persuasion) doesn't view the safeguarding of children as a politically divisive issue and make efforts to make kids safe.   

 

I get why the NRA is okay with kids being killed by the products they make money from, simply because of the amount money involved and that is a language I understand even if it is morally reprehensible.   I just don't get why the average American seems to be okay with it.   

Edited May 31, 2022 by James105

[Yellowtail]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Pick a lane and stay in it.

Why? Is it not beneficial in an honest discussion to be able to discuss all aspects of the issue? I try to understand all sides of an argument. 

 

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Do you want to discuss gun deaths in general in the US and defend your false claim that people only care about assault rifle deaths?

 

Or do you want to discuss assault rifles that are frequently used in large massacres?

Again, I'd like to have an open discussion where everyone is welcome to discuss all aspects of an issue.

 

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

You lose all credibility when you jump back and forth between the two issues when you are losing the argument on one of them.

No one that opposes the left has any credibility with the left, so I have nothing to lose.

 

That said, when someone attempts to address what I actually say, rather than resorting to name-calling and whatnot  I think that gives me credibility, so thank you for that.

 

Nice to see you back.

 

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

It is difficult to enforce laws against shooting people when the shooters do nothing illegal until they start shooting people. 

The same can be said of any law, yes? 

[Yellowtail]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

What?!  The "this topic is about assault rifles" poster is now asking for suggestions about rational gun laws?

 

Let me guess; once someone posts suggested laws you'll respond with "No, no, no, only laws about assault rifles!".

No, I am very interested in discussing any laws. What specific laws do you recommend? 

[JCauto]

14 hours ago, coolcarer said:

Again ignoring the facts and evidence already posted in this thread. Banning some guns is the first step, far stricter controls on others is the next. Those are evidence based facts and outcomes that work. Video games is another deflection on what needs to be done first.

There has never been any evidence that video games have had any impact on pre-disposing children or teenagers to violence. In fact, the latest study has shown that it is quite good for the development of children's brains.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2019.00134/full#:~:text=A recent interventional study found,rapid improvements in brain development.

 

But surely there have been studies of correlation between videogames and violence specifically you say? Yes, there was, and no there isn't!

 

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.200373

 

Interestingly, it seems that 65% of videogamers continue to play as adults. That's 2 out of 3! 

[James105]

14 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

No, I am very interested in discussing any laws. What specific laws do you recommend? 

Do you support the right of an 18 year old to legally buy an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle, such as the one used in this latest massacre?   

[coolcarer]

13 minutes ago, JCauto said:

There has never been any evidence that video games have had any impact on pre-disposing children or teenagers to violence. In fact, the latest study has shown that it is quite good for the development of children's brains.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnhum.2019.00134/full#:~:text=A recent interventional study found,rapid improvements in brain development.

 

But surely there have been studies of correlation between videogames and violence specifically you say? Yes, there was, and no there isn't!

 

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.200373

 

Interestingly, it seems that 65% of videogamers continue to play as adults. That's 2 out of 3! 

Did you misunderstand my post and who I was responding to? The poster I was responding to brought up video games banning, I was making it clear to him that this was just another of his deflections on the real issues of stricter gun control. Got it now?

[PoodThaiMaiDai]

18 hours ago, jvs said:

So get your buddies (the militia ones) and do what the constitution allows you to do!

 

I am far from a militia.  

 

I also don't own any assault weapons.

 

I have a 22 rifle that I purchased when i was 18 and 3 handguns.

 

They are safely stored but easily assessable for emergencies.

[Yellowtail]

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

Source for your gun ownership claim?

 

• Gun ownership in the U.S. 1972-2021 | Statista

 

 

 

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

"There are more than 393 million civilian-owned firearms in the United States, or enough for every man, woman and child to own one and still have 67 million guns left over."  https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/19/there-are-more-guns-than-people-in-the-united-states-according-to-a-new-study-of-global-firearm-ownership/

Wow, the Washington Post. In any event, your newspaper article does not support your claim that what I said was false. This is what I said:

 

"Yeah, I don't remember any gun or knife fights, even though virtually everyone had guns, that's why I am convinced the problem is the guns.  

 

Incidentally, gun ownership by household in the US is lower than it was 50 years ago, but yeah, it's the guns."

 

The data I provided above supports my claim.

 

 

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

I may have to take a break from identifying your false facts.  It's easier for you to invent lies than for me to show they are lies.

Or you may just want to apologize, as you were wrong on gun ownership, and I think you're wrong on there being significantly  more than 1,400 assault-rifle deaths.

 

Looks to me like you're 0 for 2.