VIDEO: Why some elderly Thais cannot afford to retire

[spidermike007]

Such generosity. $22 a month for the seniors, who made it all possible. 

 

How much could that paltry subsidy be increased if they scrapped the submarine program, or fired 1900 of the 2200 completely useless generals? 

[ChaiyaTH]

7 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

And that it why it is important to support your local friendly bar girls.

Their families need the money that they send in order to survive.

Bar girls are not looked down on by their parents. They make a valuable contribution.

Many will laugh at this comment, but think about it.

Strange world.

I doubt many laugh about it, it's obvious that this happens. I contributed enough, bored of them since covid.

 

However first of all on the population in total this is just a tiny percentage of people, secondly most money the girls earn is usually wasted in the process. Only 2-3k usually is send back home, which can be done with any other job too.

 

The fact this is true for the largest part, is also the reason many bars now struggle to find girls. It is more efficient for them to save on the wasted money in the process and settle for 4-5K via online 18+ gigs, staying home, not having to drink and having freedom for working hours thanks to global timezones.

Edited May 29, 2022 by ChaiyaTH

[Misterwhisper]

What Thailand sorely needs is an adequate social security system.

 

We know the money is there. Problem is that it's always squandered on utterly useless investments such as engine-less submarines, blimps that don't fly, explosives detectors that actually are golf ball finders, an aircraft carrier that basically rots away at its dock, a flashy parliamentary club where MPs can surf their favorite porn movies in luxury, a palace-like new parliament building when the old one was perfectly fine, etc. etc.

 

Frankly, a "state pension" of 700 baht is an insult.

And what are pensioners supposed to do with an "extra" 100 baht? It's barely enough to buy a couple of plates of fried rice these days.

Maybe we should "raise" MP salaries by a generous 100 baht and see how they react.  

[Lacessit]

Many elderly rural Thais have assets by way of houses and land. What they do not have is meaningful income. They are reliant on their children to support them.

I know what I give my GF each month is distributed around the family members to help them, so I don't understand why the Thai government treats foreign retirees like lepers, instead of thanking them for helping Thai families survive.

[it is what it is]

 

this is not a problem unique to thailand. i'm enjoying early semi-retirement, i could easily afford retire fully but love working. i have friends back home and in other countries that have not made adequate, or any, financial arrangements for their later years and simply cannot afford to give up work. even with a basic state pension you have to contribute to qualify.

[jts-khorat]

On 5/28/2022 at 5:46 AM, itsari said:

A country is judged by the way there government looks after there old people .

A society is also judged by how well families care for their older members. Here Thailand still wins hands down.

 

It is despicable, how full care homes for the elderly are in the west. Those people might have to eat -- but are they really looked after in a proper way (socially, emotionally)?

 

The situation is obviously more difficult where there are -- for whatever reason -- no more children to care for their parents. This is the only situation where I would expect the need for a government to intervene.

[spidermike007]

8 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

And that it why it is important to support your local friendly bar girls.

Their families need the money that they send in order to survive.

Bar girls are not looked down on by their parents. They make a valuable contribution.

Many will laugh at this comment, but think about it.

Strange world.

It is a most valuable contribution to society, it is a form of charity, and it is the least we can do to help out a decimated economy. 

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, Misterwhisper said:

And what are pensioners supposed to do with an "extra" 100 baht? It's barely enough to buy a couple of plates of fried rice these days.

Not sure you're right about that.

1,500bht buys me 4 months of white rice (45Kg), for my entire family 5-6 people.

Back in the village you can buy it for half that amount.

[itsari]

2 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

A society is also judged by how well families care for their older members. Here Thailand still wins hands down.

 

It is despicable, how full care homes for the elderly are in the west. Those people might have to eat -- but are they really looked after in a proper way (socially, emotionally)?

 

The situation is obviously more difficult where there are -- for whatever reason -- no more children to care for their parents. This is the only situation where I would expect the need for a government to intervene.

Family members in Thailand have no other choice if the person's concerned have no money . I do not consider that situation a winner.

The west has many different levels of care . Scandinavia wins hands down there . UK for example very poor standard and expensive .

A government has a duty to take care of the elderly if the need is there. 

[EVENKEEL]

Is their a Thai word for retirement? Cause they don't know it. Their kids are their retirement, even better if there's a farang in the midst.

[Sheryl]

2 minutes ago, jts-khorat said:

A society is also judged by how well families care for their older members. Here Thailand still wins hands down.

 

It is despicable, how full care homes for the elderly are in the west. Those people might have to eat -- but are they really looked after in a proper way (socially, emotionally)?

 

The situation is obviously more difficult where there are -- for whatever reason -- no more children to care for their parents. This is the only situation where I would expect the need for a government to intervene.

The situation in the West did not come about because people are hard hearted and unwilling to care for their elders. It is the result of a combination of things:

 

Much smaller family size

All adult family members  having to work outside the home (and younger ones in school)  means no one there during the day to look after anyone

People living much longer but also often with serious physical and mental impairments that leave them unable le to care for themselves or needing constant supervision

Add all that together and care home placement becomes unavoidable in many instances

 

There are actually far more elderly either living on their own with frequent help from relatives, or living with relatives, in the West than one might think. But for reasons cited above they tend to be the ones without dementia and physically able to at least get around within the home and summon help if needed. I did home health nursing in the US so saw many such cases.

 

I also did some long  term care work. Care homes are indeed full to overflowing , but the people in them apmost always have significant impairments such that they could not possibly be managed at home uness care takers were constantly available ...which due to factors cited above, is rarely the case.

 

These various factors are all starting to be true in Thailand and will continue to in increase. No way to prevent it.

 

[DJ54]

Maybe a food distribution center funded by the government geared for retirees / old folks so at least 

their getting enough food essentials. Improved education system especially for the northeast ( I don’t know how other areas systems are. 
 

from my personal experience our 14 year old boy will be out of school next year. Luckily we can afford to get a further education. There are a lot of children in the same boat. 
 

my message to parents if they expect their children to take care of them at ol age.

Give them the best education you can ….  maybe then life will be a little easier because 

they have the opportunity for a better job …

[Lucky Bones]

35 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Not sure you're right about that.

1,500bht buys me 4 months of white rice (45Kg), for my entire family 5-6 people.

Back in the village you can buy it for half that amount.

Yup, agreed again. You can buy most things at lower prices.

But I think you will understand the difference between rice and mush?

[jts-khorat]

17 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I also did some long  term care work. Care homes are indeed full to overflowing , but the people in them apmost always have significant impairments such that they could not possibly be managed at home uness care takers were constantly available ...which due to factors cited above, is rarely the case.

 

These various factors are all starting to be true in Thailand and will continue to in increase. No way to prevent it.

 

I do not disagree with what you say.

 

But the truth is also, that the social state we have forces the nuclear family and all the evils it brings into existence, because now both parents need to work just to put enough on the table to live. They do neither have the time to look properly after their children -- this is outsourced to all-day kindergardens instead of instilling proper values at home -- and it forces them to abandon their parents when they are in need, setting another horrible example.

 

Even somebody with fairly serious impairments could and should in my opinion still be cared for at home, within the circle of their own family, if it is not indicated otherwise for purely medical reasons. Decline is part of all our lives, it is unavoidable; and besides them being cared for and them being loved, we teach our children that we live in a world devoid of death, sickness and hardship.

 

Of course, as you say, caring for somebody needs time and resources.

 

Those might, of course, also not available in our consumer-centric society, because it is really not comfortable to feed granny or have somebody on the look-out that she is well. So we tend to hand them off to 'professionals' (here in Germany those are normally minimum wage earners, very often foreigners, so communication alone is often severly curtailed -- which tells me all there is with regard how appreciated those elderly are and how esteemed it is ion our society to look after them).

 

So I am, from what I see, not convinced that that many elderly really live "with relatives"; they might simply live alone and independent as long as they are able to care for themselves, but that is really not the same, as this prevents them to be able to give any benefit to their grandchildren whatsoever. That somebody has their parents move into the household seems rather the exception, not the rule.

 

As you say, all those factors, of course, come to bear in Thailand now more and more; people worry about bills, mortgages, and most of what they supposedly own belongs to the bank, all they have is more or less nothing more than debt. I am unconvinced, that this is a superior model for a functioning society, with the government becoming the sole caretaker of everybody, but really "caring" for nobody. I just believe, we in the west have been incredibly lucky to have lived within the small sliver of time, where this model seemingly benefitted everybody; this time is, to my mind, also quickly coming to an end.

 

Sorry for the rant, but this just wanted out... ????

[Nickelbeer]

On 5/28/2022 at 10:46 AM, itsari said:

A country is judged by the way there government looks after there old people .

Thailand must be way down the list when reading the post that they are expected to live on so little .

I choose to live here mainly because of the low cost of living . If the old were taken care of fairly the cost of living would have to increase .

A moral dilemma 

Many countries do not believe that the government has ANY responsibility to “look after” its citizens, whether they are old or young. Being an American, I am very sad to see this attitude very prevalent in my own country among those who deem themselves to be “conservatives”. The only thing they want to “conserve” is their own wealth and those who are unfortunate are just out of luck. ????. There is an added factor here in Thailand, that if you are in distress, that it is , somehow, their own fault. many Americans envy citizens of the UK with their access to NHS healthcare. There seems to be an endless supply of people who only care about their own patch of ground and the rest of the world can go straight to hell. This irresponsible attitude will eventually cause social problems and unrest that cannot be ameliorated by the methods that have worked in the past. I put myself in the place of many of the unfortunates I see on the street and I wonder how I would survive in the same circumstances. I can only help a few desperate people and even then, the help is not enough. A very disheartening situation as an expat in this country.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Nickelbeer

[billd766]

On 5/28/2022 at 10:39 AM, StayinThailand2much said:

I always wonder, too. Who will want to invade Thailand? Laos or Cambodia? (And if Laos were to invade peaceful Thailand, what good would submarines be?)

 

Or maybe China? But isn't China their best buddy?

IMHO the only country other than China (or perhaps Indonesia or Malaysia) would be Myanmar, and there would be no way for Thailand to beat them.

 

Fortunately for Thailand, Myanmar has its own problems.

[billd766]

9 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Such generosity. $22 a month for the seniors, who made it all possible. 

 

How much could that paltry subsidy be increased if they scrapped the submarine program, or fired 1900 of the 2200 completely useless generals? 

Or even ALL the 2200 generals plus the officers down to Lieutenant level and the senior ranks down to SSgts as they generally run the army anyway.

[billd766]

9 hours ago, Misterwhisper said:

What Thailand sorely needs is an adequate social security system.

 

We know the money is there. Problem is that it's always squandered on utterly useless investments such as engine-less submarines, blimps that don't fly, explosives detectors that actually are golf ball finders, an aircraft carrier that basically rots away at its dock, a flashy parliamentary club where MPs can surf their favorite porn movies in luxury, a palace-like new parliament building when the old one was perfectly fine, etc. etc.

 

Frankly, a "state pension" of 700 baht is an insult.

And what are pensioners supposed to do with an "extra" 100 baht? It's barely enough to buy a couple of plates of fried rice these days.

Maybe we should "raise" MP salaries by a generous 100 baht and see how they react.  

Or perhaps reduce MPs salaries to the OAP levels.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

The situation in the West did not come about because people are hard hearted and unwilling to care for their elders. It is the result of a combination of things:

 

Much smaller family size

All adult family members  having to work outside the home (and younger ones in school)  means no one there during the day to look after anyone

People living much longer but also often with serious physical and mental impairments that leave them unable le to care for themselves or needing constant supervision

Add all that together and care home placement becomes unavoidable in many instances

 

There are actually far more elderly either living on their own with frequent help from relatives, or living with relatives, in the West than one might think. But for reasons cited above they tend to be the ones without dementia and physically able to at least get around within the home and summon help if needed. I did home health nursing in the US so saw many such cases.

 

I also did some long  term care work. Care homes are indeed full to overflowing , but the people in them apmost always have significant impairments such that they could not possibly be managed at home uness care takers were constantly available ...which due to factors cited above, is rarely the case.

 

These various factors are all starting to be true in Thailand and will continue to in increase. No way to prevent it.

 

In Australia, there is a clear differentiation between for-profit aged care centres, and state-run ones.

The most obvious one is the difference during the COVID pandemic, where the death rate in the for-profit centres was an order of magnitude higher.

What was jokingly referred to as food in said centres was another issue that surfaced in a Royal Commission into aged care. As well as both sexes left in soiled adult diapers for hours because corners were cut on staffing levels.

It's a compelling argument for socialism, although that word is anathema to most Americans. Which is somewhat ironic, given one of the most socialist organizations on the planet is the US military.

Personally, I am betting on my Thai family taking care of me.

 

[itsari]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

In Australia, there is a clear differentiation between for-profit aged care centres, and state-run ones.

The most obvious one is the difference during the COVID pandemic, where the death rate in the for-profit centres was an order of magnitude higher.

What was jokingly referred to as food in said centres was another issue that surfaced in a Royal Commission into aged care. As well as both sexes left in soiled adult diapers for hours because corners were cut on staffing levels.

It's a compelling argument for socialism, although that word is anathema to most Americans. Which is somewhat ironic, given one of the most socialist organizations on the planet is the US military.

Personally, I am betting on my Thai family taking care of me.

 

Australia is far more anti socialist than the united States . 

Now there is a Labor government that may even things up . 

I do not give much hope for that personally .

 

[itsari]

On 5/28/2022 at 3:59 PM, bkk6060 said:

I look forward to the You Tube Vlog: How to live in Thailand on $20 a month.

Try 400 dollars .

Well possible 

[VincentRJ]

8 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Many elderly rural Thais have assets by way of houses and land. What they do not have is meaningful income.

If you own your house and land, but have a low income, then surely it's sensible to utilize the land to grow fruit and vegetables and raise chickens for the meat and eggs. In other words, become food self-sufficient. This can be done even on a small plot of land.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

Try 400 dollars .

Well possible 

If the elderly got 13k baht a month, then there they could retire without too many worries.  No need for the thread.

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

If you own your house and land, but have a low income, then surely it's sensible to utilize the land to grow fruit and vegetables and raise chickens for the meat and eggs. In other words, become food self-sufficient. This can be done even on a small plot of land.

True enough, a fair bit of bartering goes on in my GF's village. Having said that, there are bills such as electricity that can't be paid for with chickens.

[Lacessit]

5 hours ago, itsari said:

Australia is far more anti socialist than the united States . 

Now there is a Labor government that may even things up . 

I do not give much hope for that personally .

 

It depends on whether Albanese sheds the small target body armor he took into the election.

Mention socialism to an American, and most start frothing at the mouth.

[itsari]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

It depends on whether Albanese sheds the small target body armor he took into the election.

Mention socialism to an American, and most start frothing at the mouth.

Socialism has become a dirty word in many countries over the past 30 years . Often the media paint a picture that is not real . Rupert Murdock and his empire comes to mind . Therefore the present Australian labour party has not much chance of making real change . 

One has to look back at what happened to the Whitlam government to understand Australia .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[itsari]

7 hours ago, KhunLA said:

If the elderly got 13k baht a month, then there they could retire without too many worries.  No need for the thread.

No need for the forum either as the country would become too expensive for most foreigners to live here .

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, itsari said:

Socialism has become a dirty word in many countries over the past 30 years . Often the media paint a picture that is not real . Rupert Murdock and his empire comes to mind . Therefore the present Australian labour party has not much chance of making real change . 

One has to look back at what happened to the Whitlam government to understand Australia .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would prefer to look at the Hawke government as a better example.

Traditionally. Labor governments have always been reforming, and Liberal governments dedicated to the preservation of the status quo. The only meaningful reform of the Howard government was gun control.

Privatisation of aged care facilities in Australia has been a disaster for the elderly and their families, all the owner operators care about is their bottom line.

IMO with Dutton at the helm of the Liberals, they will spend a long time in the political wilderness, unless he undergoes a road to Damascus conversion. That gives Albanese a lot more leeway.

Getting back to Thailand, I've just bought a takeaway chicken biryani dinner.  The shop/restaurant is run by a couple in their seventies, the guy speaks good English and we occasionally have a discussion. He has been outside Thailand.

I asked him when he planned to retire. He said they will keep the shop open for as long as they can, they have no savings to retire with. He and his wife get the government pension, which does not even cover the shop rent.

Village Thais can manage quite well on 2500 - 3000 baht/month income, 600 baht/month once they hit 60 is an insult.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, itsari said:

No need for the forum either as the country would become too expensive for most foreigners to live here .

I have not heard of too many foreigners who are living here on 13K baht per month, most IME are in the 50K-100K baht/month area, except the real skinflints.

Thailand has a long way to go before it gets to be as expensive as Australia. Show me a condo apartment in Australia, with condo swimming pool, that I can buy for AUD 40,000.

[Nickelbeer]

11 hours ago, itsari said:

Australia is far more anti socialist than the united States . 

Now there is a Labor government that may even things up . 

I do not give much hope for that personally .

 

Depends on what you deem as “socialist”.  Australia has top quality universal health care. That's something that most Americans consider socialist. Curiously, even Trump complimented Australia’s healthcare system and said the US needed something similar. Of course, that’s just another example of Trump not knowing what, if any, position he was holding on the issue. On policy, he was the most ignorant President in history. His advisors constantly had to pull his chestnuts out of the fire.