"ATM scam" - myth or reality ?

[Ralf001]

1 minute ago, bbko said:

For those crying scam, it's time for you to get a better bank in your home country.  My bank in the US only allows the Thai banks to charge me 30 baht not the 220b.  Some foreign banks have free international withdraws.  If the 220 is too much, make the maximum withdraw you can (30,000) or brings a large chunk of cash when you decide to come here.

How does the US bank force Thai banks to lower their advertised fee's ?.

 

Or does your US bank reimburse you the money like other (some) baks do ?

 

FWIW the Thai banks will be getting that 220b... maybe not directly from you but you can bet you last dollar they are not waiving their fee's for nobody.

[Mac Mickmanus]

23 minutes ago, wn78 said:

Yes obviously.  You just show up to any Thai bank, hand them your foreign ATM card and they happily give you cash?  More details would be appreciated, like what are the fees for that service compared to ATMs.

Go into a bank and ask yourself , due to your condescending manner, I wont help you anymore 

[Guest truthman]

2 hours ago, BudRight said:

One of the ways people justify a rip off in Thailand is they say "it's the same in every country!" but it never is.

I don't know why they bother defending the rip offs. You can be generally happy, respect Thai people and enjoy your life but that doesn't mean you have to be willfully oblivious when you are taken advantage of. 

The government puts a limit of 10 baht for domestic atm withdrawls either at out of province or other bank ATMS. It's only the foreigners getting screwed.

[Guest truthman]

6 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The idea is that you have a foreign bank account /ATM card

Most banks won't do it.

[gamb00ler]

9 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

People are not forced with draw large amounts though  , they can make free withdrawals inside the bank and no one has to use an ATM .

   No one has to pay to use an ATN , 

 

8 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Your assertion is true only in cases where a specific combination of card issuers and Thai banks are the participants in the transaction in question.  Other combinations of issuers and Thai banks either don't work or are not "free".

 

Firstly only a few Thai banks offer cash advances from their tellers on debit/credit cards.  I think only Krungsri and Bangkok bank offer free cash advance services.

 

Secondly, for those using US based financial institutions, there is a short list of those that don't add foreign transaction fees for ATM withdrawals, purchases and cash advances from the teller.  I believe that for other nationalities, the list of fee free foreign transaction card issuers is also quite short.

 

Those two constraints mean that the vast majority of foreigners cannot obtain free withdrawals inside the bank.

 

8 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

We are talking about ATM fees .

Using the over the counter method would mean you wouldn't have to pay an ATM fee .

  There may be other fees you would have to pay , but we are specifically talking about ATM fees .

  From my experience , all banks that offer a currency exchange service can give cash on foreign debit cards , the bank just need to have a hand held card reader to process the transaction 

As you can see, I responded to your post that claimed you can walk into any bank and use a foreign debit card to obtain free withdrawals.  I pointed out the reasons that portion of your post is NOT accurate.

 

The bottom line is the fees if they follow your advice could easily be higher than the 220฿ ATM fee that is the topic of this thread.  Most US based debit cards add 1-3% in foreign transaction fees including on "cash advances" at the teller.

[phetphet]

23 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Because they need to buy an ATM, arrange a network to let the ATM talk to your local bank, get money transferred and hand over that money. Why should they do that for free? If you are to stingy, take cash from your own bank account and go to a money changer. Stop the scam BS, it isn't true because some idiots on a website say so.

The Banks are providing ATM's as much for their own sake as customers. They make more money, require less branches and staff. It's in the name: Automated Teller Machines.

 

I wonder how long it will be before they start to charge for each online transfer? 

 

Pre Covid BKK Bank allowed only 5 free online transactions / month before charging a small fee. Covid and the fear of transmission by handling notes caused the banks to drop that fee.

 

This then enabled them to make massive cost savings by closing branches, and cutting staff. but sooner or later they will be looking at how to increase profits again.

 

Just like they keep increasing ATM charges, What's to stop them reintroducing online transfer fees?

[Guest truthman]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Why?

Let's say you go here to the ATM and you withdraw the equivalent to 500USD.

So that 500USD will be withdrawn from your account i.e. in the USA.

Why pays for the ATM machines? Who pays for the computers? Who pays for the software? Who pays for the data transmission? Who pays for the management of all that? Who pays when something goes wrong?

 

IMHO 220 THB is cheap for that service. And I am sure if that kind of service (ATM, bank transfer, etc.) would cost 1,000THB then people would still use it, because they need that service.

 

You remember the days before ATMs, when you would go into the bank and withdraw money from a teller -- for free. When you could open a checking account for free with no minimum balance? When ATMS were introduced, we were promised they would be more efficient and lower costs for the consumer. Now, they've become a cash cow for the banks.

[Guest truthman]

14 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

For starters, 4 obvious ones:

 

1) Charging for an ATM and/or Debit Card;

 

2) Charging transaction fees if one is not in the province of the Home bank;

 

3) Charging a fee to receive SMS notification of a transaction;

 

4) As pointed out in the thread, overcharging for ATM withdrawals.

And now they have tiers for ATM cards with costs as high as 600 baht a year

[Peterw42]

Basically, there is no such thing as a free withdrawal from a foreign bank in Thailand.

One way or another, you pay for it. At the ATM, via a lower exchange rate, via card issuer fees, via home bank transaction or cash advance fees, via yearly fees and conditions. Any of the home banks that reimburse fees etc, usually have huge yearly fees, minimum balance and minimum monthly deposits.

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Peterw42

[itsari]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

A lot (most?) street food vendors I see do not accept "transfer" or have a QR code to scan for payment.

 

Bricks and motor shop's on the other hand.

I get really infuratiated when some <deleted> whips out his phone to make payment because it takes them for ever to unlock the phone.... then scroll through the menu a few times to find woaht ever app they use..... then wave the phone around over a printed QR code... finally it works.

 

Really if one is goIng to use thIs payment method HAVE YA <deleted> PHONE UNLOCKED AND THE APP OPEN READY TO USE................YOU STUPID <deleted>.

I agree with your point that it is annoying to wait for people using there phones to make a payment . 

But I do not  agree with your reaction .

[BudRight]

2 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

A lot (most?) street food vendors I see do not accept "transfer" or have a QR code to scan for payment.

 

Bricks and motor shop's on the other hand.

I get really infuratiated when some <deleted> whips out his phone to make payment because it takes them for ever to unlock the phone.... then scroll through the menu a few times to find woaht ever app they use..... then wave the phone around over a printed QR code... finally it works.

 

Really if one is goIng to use thIs payment method HAVE YA <deleted> PHONE UNLOCKED AND THE APP OPEN READY TO USE................YOU STUPID <deleted>.

Not all street vendors have a QR code hanging there but if you ask if you can "own" then they will produce a slip of paper with an account number to do a transfer. 

 

I try to have my phone ready rock and roll when I do this, but my Thai bank's app is poorly optimized and runs slowly even on my decent phone.

 

It would be nice if it was as quick as using WeChat pay in China.
 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, truthman said:

You remember the days before ATMs, when you would go into the bank and withdraw money from a teller -- for free. When you could open a checking account for free with no minimum balance? When ATMS were introduced, we were promised they would be more efficient and lower costs for the consumer. Now, they've become a cash cow for the banks.

Yes, I remember that from back home from a long time ago.

And I remember my first trip to Thailand without ATM and with lots of cash and traveler checks.

And I had a credit card at that time. Officially it was not allowed to get cash from the credit card. I found a shop owner who deducted money from my credit card and he gave me cash minus 3% commission. I was happy that I was able to get cash.

[ThailandRyan]

On 5/30/2022 at 12:50 AM, Baron Samedi said:

Scam is how it's being called on many websites out there.

It is a dubious practice to say the least.

200 THB is like 5 euros/dollars for one single ATM withdrawal.

It has nothing to do with whether I can afford it or not.

I just don't see why I should pay them to have the privilege to access my money so I can spend it in their country.

Just because your country's banks do not charge ATM fees doesn't mean the Thai banks shouldn't.  When I first came here I would be charged 180 baht for using the ATM as well as the exchange rate my bank added in.  I then got smart and opened up an account here and withdrew my money I had deposited....no fees unless you use another banks ATM.

[NanLaew]

17 hours ago, Baron Samedi said:

That being said, it might be about time for Thailand to enter the 21th century and offer decent digital payment options. I should be able to pay street food vendors with my phone in 2022.

There's at least a couple already doing that in Udon Thani, the most technologically advanced province in the whole dogpile.

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

A lot (most?) street food vendors I see do not accept "transfer" or have a QR code to scan for payment.

 

Bricks and motor shop's on the other hand.

I get really infuratiated when some <deleted> whips out his phone to make payment because it takes them for ever to unlock the phone.... then scroll through the menu a few times to find woaht ever app they use..... then wave the phone around over a printed QR code... finally it works.

 

Really if one is goIng to use thIs payment method HAVE YA <deleted> PHONE UNLOCKED AND THE APP OPEN READY TO USE................YOU STUPID <deleted>.

It's the new-age equivalent of queuing up behind the lady with maybe three of four of her brood who all dully watch the cashier scan each item and only after the grand total pops up on the screen, only then do they suddenly blink and remember their purse. After digging in their handbags they remember that the oldest niece actually had the purse last. Then she goes digging for it and, after finding it, asks for the umpteenth time "tao-arai?" and finally, squinting at the screen with renewed attention, counts out the bills.

 

...then they see that it's x-hundred baht AND X-SATANGS, so now everyone is digging in their pockets and/or purses and/or handbags to find this dross of exact change.

 

And you're infuriated by people who are slow with their digital banking apps? Take a number.

[Ralf001]

5 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

It's the new-age equivalent of queuing up behind the lady with maybe three of four of her brood who all dully watch the cashier scan each item and only after the grand total pops up on the screen, only then do they suddenly blink and remember their purse. After digging in their handbags they remember that the oldest niece actually had the purse last. Then she goes digging for it and, after finding it, asks for the umpteenth time "tao-arai?" and finally, squinting at the screen with renewed attention, counts out the bills.

 

...then they see that it's x-hundred baht AND X-SATANGS, so now everyone is digging in their pockets and/or purses and/or handbags to find this dross of exact change.

 

And you're infuriated by people who are slow with their digital banking apps? Take a number.

I just leave, ive not time for that <deleted>.

[wn78]

7 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Go into a bank and ask yourself , due to your condescending manner, I wont help you anymore 

There was nothing condescending in my reply, considering that you dismissed my previous question with a trivial unhelpful answer.  Never mind, have a good day sir.

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Just because your country's banks do not charge ATM fees doesn't mean the Thai banks shouldn't.  When I first came here I would be charged 180 baht for using the ATM as well as the exchange rate my bank added in.  I then got smart and opened up an account here and withdrew my money I had deposited....no fees unless you use another banks ATM.

How did you get your money from a foreign currency in your home bank account , to Thai Baht in your Thai account ?

[Bruno123]

8 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Basically, there is no such thing as a free withdrawal from a foreign bank in Thailand.

One way or another, you pay for it. At the ATM, via a lower exchange rate, via card issuer fees, via home bank transaction or cash advance fees, via yearly fees and conditions. Any of the home banks that reimburse fees etc, usually have huge yearly fees, minimum balance and minimum monthly deposits.

 

Wrong. I don't think most people would regard the Mastercard/Visa rate as a "lower exchange rate". 

Many can take advantage of the Mastercard/VISA rate with no other fees at all. No need for reimbursement, as there is no fee charged in the first place. Credit cards in the main, but sometimes debit cards are accepted.

[Photoguy21]

On 5/29/2022 at 11:08 PM, Baron Samedi said:

Thailand can be such an annoying place sometimes...

Exchange rates already suck and now this BS ????

It's like they're trying to scuttle their own tourism industry with dumb moves like this one...

 

Ok. Thanks for your help Stick Rice Balls !

Genuine question, if you are in Europe why does it matter what the Baht rate is in Thailand? 

[Baron Samedi]

6 minutes ago, Photoguy21 said:

Genuine question, if you are in Europe why does it matter what the Baht rate is in Thailand? 

I lived in Thailand for a couple of years in the 2010's.

 

I was thinking about another trip there (don't really know for how long) but I'm not so sure anymore. Exchange rates suck, ATM fees make me cringe, nightlife is on life support and there is no clear way forward (TAT's plans for the future seem half-baked honestly). Didn't look at the price of visas, visa runs, ED visas and so on but higher prices wouldn't surprise me...

 

But I gotta say the AseanNow community is pretty cool ????

[ThailandRyan]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How did you get your money from a foreign currency in your home bank account , to Thai Baht in your Thai account ?

Travelled here with the cash initially and deposited it into an account I opened with SCB while on a tourist Visa while in Phuket.  Traveling back and forth every quarter like I did I kept bringing in cash (USD $100 dollar bills) and kept depositing them into the account.  Sometimes I would go into the branch and take a cash draw on my CC which I would then deposit, while paying off the amount I took back to my CC.  Nowadays I wire the money to my K-Bank account/s.  I have not withdrawn any money from my US accounts using an ATM or cash draw in over 10 years now.

[Mac Mickmanus]

32 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Travelled here with the cash initially and deposited it into an account I opened with SCB while on a tourist Visa while in Phuket.  Traveling back and forth every quarter like I did I kept bringing in cash (USD $100 dollar bills) and kept depositing them into the account.  Sometimes I would go into the branch and take a cash draw on my CC which I would then deposit, while paying off the amount I took back to my CC.  Nowadays I wire the money to my K-Bank account/s.  I have not withdrawn any money from my US accounts using an ATM or cash draw in over 10 years now.

That isn't possible for many of us , as we don't regularly go back to our home Countries and thus cannot bring the cash over 

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

 

 

As you can see, I responded to your post that claimed you can walk into any bank and use a foreign debit card to obtain free withdrawals.  I pointed out the reasons that portion of your post is NOT accurate.

 

The bottom line is the fees if they follow your advice could easily be higher than the 220฿ ATM fee that is the topic of this thread.  Most US based debit cards add 1-3% in foreign transaction fees including on "cash advances" at the teller.

Once again we are talking about ATM fees and you can ovoid ATM fees by not using ATM's and getting cash over the Counter at a bank . 

   There will probably be other fees as there will be when using ATM's , but we are specifically talking bout the 220 Baht ATM fee which is additional to the other banking fees 

[gamb00ler]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Once again we are talking about ATM fees and you can ovoid ATM fees by not using ATM's and getting cash over the Counter at a bank . 

   There will probably be other fees as there will be when using ATM's , but we are specifically talking bout the 220 Baht ATM fee which is additional to the other banking fees 

I've explained it very well for you.  However, that hasn't helped.

[Lacessit]

I would only withdraw funds from an ATM in an emergency.

I go to a bank in the same province with my savings passbook and my passport, collect a queue ticket, and wait patiently to be called. I then withdraw what I want without any fees.

The 200 baht fee is for the convenience of getting cash from an ATM in under a minute.

[Ralf001]

2 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I would only withdraw funds from an ATM in an emergency.

I go to a bank in the same province with my savings passbook and my passport, collect a queue ticket, and wait patiently to be called. I then withdraw what I want without any fees.

The 200 baht fee is for the convenience of getting cash from an ATM in under a minute.

you carry the savings passbook given by your home country bank ?

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I've explained it very well for you.  However, that hasn't helped.

Yes, You explained that there may be other fees , but everyone knows that , we are solely talking about the ATM fee .

   BTW , what are the other charges banks charge when using an ATM ?

  I was paying about 2-3 % when I withdrew money from the UK account in a Thai bank in "foreign transaction fees " , I suppose that those fees also apply when using a Thai ATM ?

[Lacessit]

20 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

you carry the savings passbook given by your home country bank ?

Thai bank. If the OP doesn't want to pay ATM fees, he needs to open a bank account in Thailand. But you knew that already, didn't you?

 

I don't know about the rest of the Western world, but savings passbooks are as anachronistic as button-up boots in Australia. Most banking is done via the internet and debit/credit cards, ATM's are being closed by the banks. It's well on the way to being a cashless society, which the government loves.

[Ralf001]

15 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Thai bank. If the OP doesn't want to pay ATM fees, he needs to open a bank account in Thailand. But you knew that already, didn't you?

 

I don't know about the rest of the Western world, but savings passbooks are as anachronistic as button-up boots in Australia. Most banking is done via the internet and debit/credit cards, ATM's are being closed by the banks. It's well on the way to being a cashless society, which the government loves.

Ive never heard of someone paying a 200b atm charge in Thailand when using a Thai bank issued card.