Boris Johnson's future in peril as Conservative Party hit with double election losses

[candide]

2 hours ago, transam said:

So the UK is the only country with inflation probs, is that what your Guardian told you, or Corby's lot.......? ????

Other countries are also experiencing high inflation. However, it is higher in the UK. The main reason for the excess of inflation is Brexit. So the issue is: should BoJo be blamed for the impact of Brexit on inflation? Well, taking into account that he campaigned for it, negotiated the deal with the EU, and implemented Brexit, I have a clear opinion about it.

[Excel]

1 minute ago, candide said:

Other countries are also experiencing high inflation. However, it is higher in the UK. The main reason for the excess of inflation is Brexit. So the issue is: should BoJo be blamed for the impact of Brexit on inflation? Well, taking into account that he campaigned for it, negotiated the deal with the EU, and implemented Brexit, I have a clear opinion about it.

And the only country in Europe either within the EU or within the continent of Europe where somebody has been fined for an illegal act, even though that was a summary criminal offence,  is thus by definition a criminal, and is still allowed to be in charge of the country.

[Loiner]

5 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Yeah, right…

 

As to “plotting”, it is normal for political parties to develop their own strategies to win power.
 

You do understand that is how politics works don’t you? 
 

Though johnson and his cabinet do seem to be doing most of the work for them at present. 

Both by elections were not the swings towards the left they like to proclaim. They were 'nice weather stay home or day trip' polling absences. With a massive commons majority for the next two years there was no real need for Tory voters to visit the polls, plus it gives Boris a warning to get on with important matters like Brexit, Immigration and Cost of Living.

 

What MSM and politicians don't trill about is Labour's decimation in Tiverton or major reduction in votes in Wakefield. Libdem may have benefited from Labour's losses and tactical voting in Tiverton but only managed to retain just over a quarter of their 2019 votes in Wakefield. 

 

You do understand that won't wash in real politics at a GE don't you?

[Chomper Higgot]

21 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Both by elections were not the swings towards the left they like to proclaim. They were 'nice weather stay home or day trip' polling absences. With a massive commons majority for the next two years there was no real need for Tory voters to visit the polls, plus it gives Boris a warning to get on with important matters like Brexit, Immigration and Cost of Living.

 

What MSM and politicians don't trill about is Labour's decimation in Tiverton or major reduction in votes in Wakefield. Libdem may have benefited from Labour's losses and tactical voting in Tiverton but only managed to retain just over a quarter of their 2019 votes in Wakefield. 

 

You do understand that won't wash in real politics at a GE don't you?

You don’t seem to understand tactical voting.

 

 

[Bluespunk]

34 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Both by elections were not the swings towards the left they like to proclaim. They were 'nice weather stay home or day trip' polling absences. With a massive commons majority for the next two years there was no real need for Tory voters to visit the polls, plus it gives Boris a warning to get on with important matters like Brexit, Immigration and Cost of Living.

Nope, it was an outright rejection of johnson and his leadership.

 

34 minutes ago, Loiner said:

What MSM and politicians don't trill about is Labour's decimation in Tiverton or major reduction in votes in Wakefield. Libdem may have benefited from Labour's losses and tactical voting in Tiverton but only managed to retain just over a quarter of their 2019 votes in Wakefield. 

No the party that suffered decimation were the tories who saw a 30,000 turn around in votes. A catastrophic result for as safe a tory seat as it gets. As for Wakefield-a bad loss for the tories as it showed a 12% swing to labour.

 

34 minutes ago, Loiner said:

You do understand that won't wash in real politics at a GE don't you?

I understand that johnson and his party lost quite badly in both by-elections.

 

Tick tock, tick tock...

[Loiner]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You don’t seem to understand tactical voting.

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

 

 

I understand that johnson and his party lost quite badly in both by-elections.

 

Tick tock, tick tock...

One of you needs to explain to the other how tactical voting and by election blues will mean nothing at a GE.

 

Two more years, until many more years.

[transam]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Perhaps you’d prefer something from the ‘political rightwing’ of British newspapers:

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1631182/boris-johnson-no-confidence-vote-conservative-party-prime-minister-tory-rebels-vn

 

I don't even really follow any particular party, if Boris is voted out that is up to his members, end of, the world will still rotate.

 

[TorquayFan]

Morning all - just for the weekend . . . one Boris 'triumph' (IMO) was getting Brexit done - another is mooted to be the tackling of the Covid pandemic - here's the reality . . . . . . . .

As Boris basks in his latest glories of Partygate and Electoral dismissals and now looks forward to convincing a Parliamentary Committee that he is NOT a bare faced serial bender of the truth, let's have another look at last two years.

Leaving aside his obviously barmy ideas about mass crowded events and shaking hands and sharing around the deadly virus for wider benefit (?), I ask the apologists how they can now explain the following differentials in dpm rates still showing as the Stats mature :-

DPM in Brazil 3110, USA 3108, UK 2623, Russia 2607, Sweden 1864

DPM in Japan 248, New Zealand 282, Australia 371, Thailand 436

The 1st group here (except Sweden) are all run by odd to barmy/vicious characters

The 2nd group all embracing tight restrictions on international travel, lockdowns, mask wearing etc.

What conclusions ? All the old cobblers about cultures, ethnicity etc. cannot explain such differentials of this size, so let's put them aside shall we ?

The UK's terrible toll is despite the wonderful efforts of the Vaccine Task Force.

So, in truth, political positions aside, how well did the UK do in handling the Covid pandemic ? IMO it's a BLACK mark for Boris, again !

[mrfill]

On 6/25/2022 at 9:45 AM, Kwasaki said:

No as PM he should do whatever he wants to get things done for the good of the people in the country. 

Oh. like that Austrian chappie in Germany in the 1930s you mean?

No respect for any laws. Let corruption rule..

[transam]

52 minutes ago, candide said:

Other countries are also experiencing high inflation. However, it is higher in the UK. The main reason for the excess of inflation is Brexit. So the issue is: should BoJo be blamed for the impact of Brexit on inflation? Well, taking into account that he campaigned for it, negotiated the deal with the EU, and implemented Brexit, I have a clear opinion about it.

Brexit, now I thought that was Cameron's baby and Boris picked up the challenge of implementing the people's vote, not the loser's vote.

 

You may recall that the Liberals were to get the UK back into the EU if winning the general election, what happened, The Liberals leader lost her seat, buried, and Boris had a landslide victory, but I think you know that.....????

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

One of you needs to explain to the other how tactical voting and by election blues will mean nothing at a GE.

 

Two more years, until many more years.

You don't seem to understand johnson was rejected.

 

He lost.

 

Catastrophically so.

 

 

[mrfill]

17 hours ago, Loiner said:

The jungle drums must be sending the wrong message to uncountry Thailand. They need to lay off the MSM message because it does not portray the true feeling of the UK people, only the metro centric liberals. 
The only people who despise Boris are the left. Conservative heartland and Northern working class still understand the Labour despises them and will never vote labour again. 

They weren't happy having to vote for a serial porn watcher or one who sexually assaults boys. The by-election results indicate this...

Perhaps if the tories put up some half decent candidates it might help them..

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, transam said:

Not really, all papers are written by columnists, The Guardian and Independent are much the same rags, lefties.

I don't read papers, I read topics that come up on my daily scan, the two above are good for a lefty/anti laugh.  ????

 

I don't even really follow any particular party, if Boris is voted out that is up to his members, end of, the world will still rotate.

 

After reading here for many years I get to know who the anti's or lefties are, they are a bit like reading the Guardian, same ol', same ol'..????

Somebody writes what’s presented to you on your ‘daily scan’.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, transam said:

Brexit, now I thought that was Cameron's baby and Boris picked up the challenge of implementing the people's vote, not the loser's vote.

 

You may recall that the Liberals were to get the UK back into the EU if winning the general election, what happened, The Liberals leader lost her seat, buried, and Boris had a landslide victory, but I think you know that.....????

And then what happened?

 

[candide]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Brexit, now I thought that was Cameron's baby and Boris picked up the challenge of implementing the people's vote, not the loser's vote.

 

You may recall that the Liberals were to get the UK back into the EU if winning the general election, what happened, The Liberals leader lost her seat, buried, and Boris had a landslide victory, but I think you know that.....????

So what? How is it related to the level of inflation in U.K., which was the issue I was discussing.

Do you read posts before replying?

 

 

 

 

[transam]

14 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

One of you needs to explain to the other how tactical voting and by election blues will mean nothing at a GE.

 

Two more years, until many more years.

They know, but it's against their politics to admit it, see it in the House every evening I watch it.

Oh, I am still laughing at that item Ian Blackford, caught wiv his trousers down, so to speak...????

[transam]

2 minutes ago, mrfill said:

They weren't happy having to vote for a serial porn watcher or one who sexually assaults boys. The by-election results indicate this...

Perhaps if the tories put up some half decent candidates it might help them..

Perhaps folk for the job are hard to find, I mean, look at the opposition benches.....????

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Somebody writes what’s presented to you on your ‘daily scan’.

Correct, well done....????

[James105]

56 minutes ago, candide said:

Other countries are also experiencing high inflation. However, it is higher in the UK. The main reason for the excess of inflation is Brexit. So the issue is: should BoJo be blamed for the impact of Brexit on inflation? Well, taking into account that he campaigned for it, negotiated the deal with the EU, and implemented Brexit, I have a clear opinion about it.

The UK is about average inflation compared to the EU and not too different to the USA.   As far as I know the USA did not "Brexit" and nor did the countries in the EU with higher inflation than the UK, but almost every country over reacted to Covid.   Why would you blame Brexit for inflation when there is a far more obvious culprit?  

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europe

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And then what happened?

 

I don't think I have to write here what you already know about business for Boris after the election. ????

But I can recommend you look into The Guardian archives to read what "you" want to read....????

Get to it..........????

[mrfill]

23 minutes ago, transam said:

Brexit, now I thought that was Cameron's baby and Boris picked up the challenge of implementing the people's vote, not the loser's vote.

 

You may recall that the Liberals were to get the UK back into the EU if winning the general election, what happened, The Liberals leader lost her seat, buried, and Boris had a landslide victory, but I think you know that.....????

Cameron didn't want Brexit and when he lost the referendum, he immediately resigned.

[transam]

Just now, mrfill said:

Cameron didn't want Brexit and when he lost the referendum, he immediately resigned.

I think we all know the history thanks, but it WAS Cameron's baby, he instigated the referendum, surely you understand that much.

[mrfill]

14 minutes ago, transam said:

I think we all know the history thanks, but it WAS Cameron's baby, he instigated the referendum, surely you understand that much.

I understand that he was pressed into offering the referendum to counter the perceived danger from UKIP who were expected to hit the tories badly because their primary objective was to offer a referendum. Cameron never believed the referendum would go to Leave and he thought he had all the bases covered. He could beat UKIP, beat the referendum, stay in the EU and continue to make his fortune and entertain his porcine friends. But then it all went wrong for him....

The referendum was UKIPs baby - Cameron stole the idea and ran with it as he had been assured it would fail.

[transam]

7 minutes ago, mrfill said:

I understand that he was pressed into offering the referendum to counter the perceived danger from UKIP who were expected to hit the tories badly because their primary objective was to offer a referendum. Cameron never believed the referendum would go to Leave and he thought he had all the bases covered. He could beat UKIP, beat the referendum, stay in the EU and continue to make his fortune and entertain his porcine friends. But then it all went wrong for him....

The referendum was UKIPs baby - Cameron stole the idea and ran with it as he had been assured it would fail.

That is passing the buck, besides, sod all to do wiv Boris....????

[candide]

27 minutes ago, James105 said:

The UK is about average inflation compared to the EU and not too different to the USA.   As far as I know the USA did not "Brexit" and nor did the countries in the EU with higher inflation than the UK, but almost every country over reacted to Covid.   Why would you blame Brexit for inflation when there is a far more obvious culprit?  

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europe

I was talking about the difference between UK and other countries, not the absolute level of inflation.

 

UK is 1% above the U.S. and the average Euro Area level. If one excludes countries which are not comparable (ex Eastern Europe countries which are under a different context), the comparison is even worse.

Let's take the five biggest countries in Europe: UK 9.1%, France 5.2%, Germany 7.9%, Spain 8.7%, Italy 6.8%.

It's also the highest level among G7 nations.

The difference is not huge but still significant, and the influence of Brexit is also known: mainly the lower pound level which increases the cost of energy imports and manpower shortage resulting in increased pay.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

The UK is about average inflation compared to the EU and not too different to the USA.   As far as I know the USA did not "Brexit" and nor did the countries in the EU with higher inflation than the UK, but almost every country over reacted to Covid.   Why would you blame Brexit for inflation when there is a far more obvious culprit?  

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/inflation-rate?continent=europe

Many economists see a link between Brexit and inflation in the UK

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-22/brexit-s-legacy-is-hotter-uk-inflation-risk-for-years-to-come

 

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, candide said:

I was talking about the difference between UK and other countries, not the absolute level of inflation.

 

UK is 1% above the U.S. and the average Euro Area level. If one excludes countries which are not comparable (ex Eastern Europe countries which are under a different context), the comparison is even worse.

Let's take the five biggest countries in Europe: UK 9.1%, France 5.2%, Germany 7.9%, Spain 8.7%, Italy 6.8%.

It's also the highest level among G7 nations.

The difference is not huge but still significant, and the influence of Brexit is also known: mainly the lower pound level which increases the cost of energy imports and manpower shortage resulting in increased pay.

Added to which the UK has stagnant growth.

 

It’s not just worker’s wages that are falling behind inflation but the whole economy.

 

Inward investment is down, internal investment is down, skills and worker shortages across all sectors.

 

Its a mess, and it’s not getting any better.

 

 

[James105]

1 hour ago, transam said:

I think we all know the history thanks, but it WAS Cameron's baby, he instigated the referendum, surely you understand that much.

He gambled and promised a referendum based on the fact the polls did not predict a conservative majority.   If the polls were correct, it would have been a coalition government and there would never have been the required numbers to hold the referendum.   He boxed himself into a corner and begrudgingly had to give the people a say on whether or not they actually wanted to be part of the EU and (in a probable/possible future) the United States of Europe with an army, an anthem and a flag.

 

I personally blame Blair for Brexit rather than Cameron as Cameron picked up a bad hand of EU cards and people were hacked off.  Blair couldn't wait to sign every single new EU treaty before the ink was even dry and changed the face of the UK overnight upon EU expansion which saw immigration go from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands per year without asking the people of the UK how they felt about it, or building the necessary infrastructure to accommodate and integrate all these extra people.   Even though he could have delayed freedom of movement from expansion countries (just like every other sensible country in the EU) he didn't, and that led to where we are today. 

[RayC]

48 minutes ago, James105 said:

He gambled and promised a referendum based on the fact the polls did not predict a conservative majority.   If the polls were correct, it would have been a coalition government and there would never have been the required numbers to hold the referendum.   He boxed himself into a corner and begrudgingly had to give the people a say on whether or not they actually wanted to be part of the EU and (in a probable/possible future) the United States of Europe with an army, an anthem and a flag.

 

I personally blame Blair for Brexit rather than Cameron as Cameron picked up a bad hand of EU cards and people were hacked off.  Blair couldn't wait to sign every single new EU treaty before the ink was even dry and changed the face of the UK overnight upon EU expansion which saw immigration go from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands per year without asking the people of the UK how they felt about it, or building the necessary infrastructure to accommodate and integrate all these extra people.   Even though he could have delayed freedom of movement from expansion countries (just like every other sensible country in the EU) he didn't, and that led to where we are today. 

You make some valid points about Blair and the effects of EU expansion, but I disagree that Blair was responsible for Brexit and that Cameron had no other choice. 

 

The Labour Party has been predominantly pro-EU since 'New Labour'. There is - and was - little, if any, internal party debate about holding a EU referendum.

 

On the other hand, the Tory Party has been split about Europe for the best part of 50 years and the signing of the Maastricht Treaty was the catalyst for this split to turn into an internal war between the pro and anti-EU factions. Every Tory leader since then has struggled with how to deal with this. 

 

As you say, Cameron believed that the referendum result would be 'remain'. If it were, he could effectively sideline the Eurosceptic wing of the party and tighten his grip on the party for years to come. The alternative would have been to take the 'Major approach'. Reject calls for a referendum and face down the Tory rebels. Didn't end well for Major but, I'd argue, the result was better for the country.

 

In essence, Cameron put his own future and what he perceived as the stability of the Tory party above the needs of the country.

 

As we all know, the gamble failed and the country is now split down the middle. The person who must shoulder the majority of the blame for this state is Cameron.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

I personally blame Blair for Brexit rather than Cameron as Cameron picked up a bad hand of EU cards and people were hacked off.  Blair couldn't wait to sign every single new EU treaty before the ink was even dry and changed the face of the UK overnight upon EU expansion which saw immigration go from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands per year without asking the people of the UK how they felt about it, or building the necessary infrastructure to accommodate and integrate all these extra people.   Even though he could have delayed freedom of movement from expansion countries (just like every other sensible country in the EU) he didn't, and that led to where we are today. 

Really? Was Tony Blair masquerading as John Major? Must be because John Major was PM on Feb 7, 1992 when the Maastricht Treaty guaranteeing freedom of movement in the EU was signed.

 

"The twelve members of the European Communities signing the Treaty on 7 February 1992 were Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Portugal, Spain, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maastricht_Treaty#:~:text=The twelve members of the,Netherlands and the United Kingdom.