Is Roe v Wade just the beginning ?

[Jingthing]

Not only are they not done, they're on a roll.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/25/roe-antiabortion-lawmakers-restrictions-state-legislatures/

 

Roe’s gone. Now antiabortion lawmakers want more.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Jingthing

[cooked]

It is the job of the Supreme Court to decide on constitutional matters. They decided, quite rightly that as abortion is not mentioned in the constitution that the government of the USA does not have the right to impose the right to abortion on demand on the country, it's for the states to decide.

 

Maybe these women should learn about birth control, grow up in families that have fathers present. Only a very low percentage of abortions happen because of rape or incest, some parents were demanding abortions because they wanted a boy, not a girl. 

Then there's the huge profit to be made from running abortion clinics.

 

Maybe some will have to travel across state lines to get rid of their inconvenient baggage, I'm sure that funding will be found for that so that the industry doen't die out.

Edited June 26, 2022 by onthedarkside
unsourced and unsubstantiated claims removed

[EVENKEEL]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Not only are they not done, they're on a roll.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/25/roe-antiabortion-lawmakers-restrictions-state-legislatures/

 

Roe’s gone. Now antiabortion lawmakers want more.

There's a few nuts in both baskets. This all just scare mongering.

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, cooked said:

OH dear, we are getting upset. It is the job of the Supreme Court to decide on constitutional matters. They decided, quite rightly that as abortion is not mentioned in the constitution that the government of the USA does not have the right to impose the right to abortion on demand on the country, it's for the states to decide. 

 

Maybe these women should learn about birth control, grow up in families that have fathers present. Only a very low percentage of abortions happen because of rape or incest, some parents were demanding abortions because they wanted a boy, not a girl. 

 

Maybe some will have to travel across state lines to get rid of their inconvenient baggage, I'm sure that funding will be found for that so that the industry doen't die out.

According to your logic blacks would still be 3/5 of a person and women would have no constitutional rights.

 

Also these radicals are.working on criminalizing abortion nationally or short of that criminalizing traveling for abortion or helping such a woman in any way including driving her there.

 

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

There's a few nuts in both baskets. This all just scare mongering.

No it isn't.

 

Pence just yesterday announced his advocacy to ban abortion nationally.

That is clearly their movement's goal.

[Baht Simpson]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

There's a few nuts in both baskets. This all just scare mongering.

You do realise that one of the nuts you speak of is in the Supreme Court and wants to criminalise gay sex. It's hardly scaremongering when he's actually stated what he wants to do.

[Iamfalang]

Just the beginning of what?    From the greatest country on the planet to Number 1 but not that much better over Number 2?   

 

Blame the pope for this one, go after the Church.   Was the church the beginning of all of this?

 

In 1929, during the crash, people asked, "is this the beginning?"  

 

Civil war.....the beginning?

 

1 million Americans died of COVID...I have a feeling that played a role in this.   You gotta re-populate.  more tax dollars.  

 

Just be glad you're not in 1000000 other countries where real freedoms are not allowed.  

[cooked]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

According to your logic blacks would still be 3/5 of a person and women would have no constitutional rights.

 

Also these radicals are.working on criminalizing abortion nationally or short of that criminalizing traveling for abortion or helping such a woman in any way including driving her there.

 

There is no such thing as a woman apparently, just "birthing persons". I'm "not sure" where you get your figures from, There is as far as I know, no projects to criminalise abortions nationally, although I'm sure you read that somewhere. Read again: it is NOT within the powers of the US government, of whatever side, to insist on nationwide caveats, interdictions or obligations of that sort unless there is a change in the constitution. That's what this was all about- rule of law. Very inconvenient of course if you can't get your way.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Iamfalang said:

Just the beginning of what?    From the greatest country on the planet to Number 1 but not that much better over Number 2?   

 

Blame the pope for this one, go after the Church.   Was the church the beginning of all of this?

 

In 1929, during the crash, people asked, "is this the beginning?"  

 

Civil war.....the beginning?

 

1 million Americans died of COVID...I have a feeling that played a role in this.   You gotta re-populate.  more tax dollars.  

 

Just be glad you're not in 1000000 other countries where real freedoms are not allowed.  

A million other countries? Huh?

The USA is not even close to being the freest country.

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-most-freedom-in-the-world-2018-4?op=1#8-new-zealand-20

[DrPhibes]

6 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Yes, I am definitely fascinated by them. Like: how did they survive for so long? How is it possible that a nation with so much money has so many stupid, ignorant people? Yes, there are many fascinating sides to that nation.

 

I don't watch any soap operas but I watch US and UK politics. I don't think any author of any soap opera could make it up...

Like any society, you need a lower level of people who are intellectually satisfied (or just able) with spending their lives turning the nuts on screws on an assembly line, watching Nascar on the telly along with their inebriated best buddies while going to church every Sunday to be absolved of behavior they can't control.  In the US, this level of society is not seeing the economic windfall the higher educated coasts have had in recent times.  When some immigrant who put everything he got into a higher level of education leading to a good job and heads to the west or east coast for a very high paying job, invested in the stock market or worked in a company that got bought out for insane profits for those who worked there, and then sells his house in CA and buys a mansion in your town (retiring at 45) and still have hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank left over from the house sale, there is going to be resentment as you go to your 9-5 low end job and wonder if your meager savings and Social Security will allow you to live any kind of a retirement after retiring past 65.   The feeling is, "I'm a US citizen, I get up and go to work every day and church every Sunday, why does this immigrant, who does not even believe in my version of god (the only true version my pastor tells me), get to live such an American dream life?"  Devious people have seized on this economic disparity and coupled it with a religious righteousness to create a base for money and power while constantly fanning these hateful flames to continue it's propagation for more of such with no regard to tearing at the very fabric of society .   This is ultimately reflected in the divisive politics we are now seeing as these extreme right wing groups gain more power.  This is not unlike the disenfranchised Germans after WW l that lead to the rise of Nazi Germany.  If there is not a re-balancing of economic wealth with a serious emphasis on a usable education in the US and jobs to put that education to use, well, history has a way of repeating itself. 

 

That's my two Pastoolas = 88,000 Golden Kratchmuks = 264,000 Silver Zlobecks or normally about 15,576,000 Drakmids (but these, they tell me, are not normal times...) worth!

 

[Jingthing]

22 minutes ago, cooked said:

There is no such thing as a woman apparently, just "birthing persons". I'm "not sure" where you get your figures from, There is as far as I know, no projects to criminalise abortions nationally, although I'm sure you read that somewhere. Read again: it is NOT within the powers of the US government, of whatever side, to insist on nationwide caveats, interdictions or obligations of that sort unless there is a change in the constitution. That's what this was all about- rule of law. Very inconvenient of course if you can't get your way.

OMG!

PAY ATTENTION.

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/3535880-pence-calls-for-all-states-to-ban-abortion-after-supreme-court-ruling/

 

Pence calls for all states to ban abortion after Supreme Court ruling

 

As far as fetal personhood all that would take is the republicans taking congress and the white house or as few as one more right wing radical on the supreme court.

 

https://ballsandstrikes.org/law-politics/fetal-personhood-explainer/

 

The leaked Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization opinion is bad on its face, given the fact that Justice Samuel Alito’s writing would gleefully destroy the constitutional right to abortion. But Alito doesn’t stop there, and anti-choice activists have no intention of letting him stop there, either. Instead, these activists are already teeing up their next big legal fight: for the constitutional recognition of fetal personhood. 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Jingthing

[GroveHillWanderer]

2 hours ago, proton said:

why the fuss, abortion has not been banned for good it's just up to the individual states to decide. Women in a banned state just have to get on a bus to a liberal one. They will just have to keep their knickers on or use contraceptives until it's clear.

You didn't actually read and understand the title of this thread (or the content of the OP) did you?

 

This thread isn't about the overturning of Roe v Wade itself, it's about whether that decision presages others.

 

Especially in light of the fact that Justice Thomas said in his concurring opinion that the rulings on contraception, gay sex and same-sex marriage should now be called into question.

 

Interestingly enough, he mentioned these three rulings, saying they're based on the same legal principle as Roe v Wade, but conspicuously didn't call into question another ruling based on that principle (Loving v Virginia) which made interracial marriages legal.

 

I wonder why that would be?

Edited June 26, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

You didn't actually read and understand the title of this thread (or the content of the OP) did you?

 

This thread isn't about the overturning of Roe v Wade itself, it's about whether that decision presages others.

 

Especially in light of the fact that Justice Thomas said in his concurring opinion that the rulings on contraception, gay sex and same-sex marriage should now be called into question.

 

Interestingly enough, he mentioned these three rulings, saying they're based on the same legal principle as Roe v Wade, but conspicuously didn't call into question another ruling based on that principle (Loving v Virginia) which made interracial marriages legal.

 

I wonder why that would be?

Because he's a bloody hypocrite!

[EVENKEEL]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No it isn't.

You're in denial.

Pence just yesterday announced his advocacy to ban abortion nationally.

That is clearly their movement's goal.

Pence is nobody just like AOC is nobody. I have all the confidence sound minds will prevail.

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, EVENKEEL said:

Pence is nobody just like AOC is nobody. I have all the confidence sound minds will prevail.

 

Pollyanna comes to mind.

 

[ozimoron]

12 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Pence is nobody just like AOC is nobody. I have all the confidence sound minds will prevail.

 

Did Trump draw his name out of a hat to be his running mate?

[papa al]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Americans are very good at many things, being sensible is not one of them. A nation with any sense would get rid of the Electoral College anachronism, and nullify every Trump appointment to the Supreme Court.

All I can see with the current stacking of the Supreme Court is a couple of decades of regression and legal challenges, the lawyers must be delighted.

IMO the only sensible thing the Supreme Court did was to tell Trump to get lost when he tried to enlist them during the 2020 election count.

<deleted>

T.D.S.

Edited June 26, 2022 by papa al

[zzaa09]

3 hours ago, Crossy said:

As a Brit looking in from the outside, the US is accelerating backwards through time ...

 

 

Perhaps was never that evolved, special or exceptional as it's been promoted to be or as they see themselves.

So....the inclination comes naturally without much notice - lesser from the locals, whom have been systematically dumbed down for generations. 

 

 

[papa al]

41 minutes ago, DrPhibes said:

Like any society, you need a lower level of people who are intellectually satisfied (or just able) with spending their lives turning the nuts on screws on an assembly line, watching Nascar on the telly along with their inebriated best buddies while going to church every Sunday to be absolved of behavior they can't control.  In the US, this level of society is not seeing the economic windfall the higher educated coasts have had in recent times.  When some immigrant who put everything he got into a higher level of education leading to a good job and heads to the west or east coast for a very high paying job, invested in the stock market or worked in a company that got bought out for insane profits for those who worked there, and then sells his house in CA and buys a mansion in your town (retiring at 45) and still have hundreds of thousands of dollars in the bank left over from the house sale, there is going to be resentment as you go to your 9-5 low end job and wonder if your meager savings and Social Security will allow you to live any kind of a retirement after retiring past 65.   The feeling is, "I'm a US citizen, I get up and go to work every day and church every Sunday, why does this immigrant, who does not even believe in my version of god (the only true version my pastor tells me), get to live such an American dream life?"  Devious people have seized on this economic disparity and coupled it with a religious righteousness to create a base for money and power while constantly fanning these hateful flames to continue it's propagation for more of such with no regard to tearing at the very fabric of society .   This is ultimately reflected in the divisive politics we are now seeing as these extreme right wing groups gain more power.  This is not unlike the disenfranchised Germans after WW l that lead to the rise of Nazi Germany.  If there is not a re-balancing of economic wealth with a serious emphasis on a usable education in the US and jobs to put that education to use, well, history has a way of repeating itself. 

 

That's my two Pastoolas = 88,000 Golden Kratchmuks = 264,000 Silver Zlobecks or normally about 15,576,000 Drakmids (but these, they tell me, are not normal times...) worth!

 

Sounds like you have it all figured out.

[Will B Good]

1 hour ago, Iamfalang said:

Just the beginning of what?    From the greatest country on the planet to Number 1 but not that much better over Number 2?   

 

Blame the pope for this one, go after the Church.   Was the church the beginning of all of this?

 

In 1929, during the crash, people asked, "is this the beginning?"  

 

Civil war.....the beginning?

 

1 million Americans died of COVID...I have a feeling that played a role in this.   You gotta re-populate.  more tax dollars.  

 

Just be glad you're not in 1000000 other countries where real freedoms are not allowed.  

Have you been making full/excessive use of the newly relaxed laws on ganja?

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, papa al said:

<deleted>

T.D.S.

I think papa al is upset, and I can make a fair stab at the acronym. Never mind, can't please everybody.

IIRC, the last time papa al and I crossed paths, he was trying to teach me his brand of chemistry.

[Will B Good]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Americans are very good at many things, being sensible is not one of them.

????

[Nickelbeer]

2 hours ago, Walker88 said:

 

Too many Americans are willfully ignorant. Many have no clue what the actual ideals of the country are. On the repub side, they abhor democracy, and have spent decades doing everything possible to undermine it. repubs know they cannot win legitimately, so they cheat at every opportunity---redistricting and gerrymandering, changing voting laws, blocking any change that would favor the majority (such as abolishing the Electoral College or changing the rules of the Senate---2 from each State, ignoring population size, so that a State like California only gets 2 Senators, but has a greater population than the combined population of Alaska, Alabama, West Virginia, Nevada, Iowa, Kansas, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Kentucky, Utah, Arkansas, Nebraska, Idaho and Montana---which have 32 Senators in total and are usually Red States. Those who still support 45 are generally poorly educated and too ignorant to understand what democracy even means, so repubs pander to the woefully ignorant.

 

Now, the repubs even have resorted to outright lies, claiming 'fraud' where there was none, trying to send fake electors to certify the election, pressuring officials to 'find votes', threatening officials who do their proper job, etc.

 

The worst and most egregious thing was mitch mcconnell blocking a SC appointment for 8 months "because it was an election year", yet rushed through 45's appointment of the catholic fanatic handmaiden SC justice 2 weeks before the 2020 election.

 

So 4 SC justices were appointed by POTUSs who did not win the popular vote, 1 under Bush II and 3 under 45.

 

Biden should get the Dems to increase the SC to 13 justices, have Biden appoint 4 more, then pass a Bill that locks the SC at 13 justices. With the House and Senate under Dem control, they could one-up the repubs and mcconnell by stuffing the court. Biden could also select 24 year old Harvard or Stanford grads who will live another 50 years, long after thomas, alito, and maybe kavanaugh and gorsuch are pushing daisies. Of course they won't do it.

 

Sadly, the Dems are weak. Pelosi is tough but old. Schumer is a wuss. Nobody keeps the woke far left in line, and that tiny element of the Dems feed the repubs ammo as if the woke Dems really were repubs in drag. The vast majority of Dems are moderates and centrists, but they fail to reign in the fringe. The repubs, OTOH, are now mainstream fascists and autocrats, who champion superstition (fake religion) and work tirelessly to destroy democracy. The majority of the repubs now are fascists and autocrats, the absolute opposite of what the US should be.

 

Coming under the current court is an end to gay marriage and if some repub elected officials get their way, and end to interracial marriage (justice thomas probably hopes this passes so he can rid himself of ginni, his whackjob wife)

This post explains the current situation better than any I have read in years.  The status quo is nearly hopeless. A 13 member SCOTUS with a majority Jewish/Atheist membership is the only hope of having sane government in the United States.

[swissie]

I am surprised that this comes as a surprise to many.

The US in the firm grip of fundamentalist religious zealots plus "trumpism".

A fatal toxic combination.

[Will B Good]

2 hours ago, Walker88 said:

 

Too many Americans are willfully ignorant. Many have no clue what the actual ideals of the country are. On the repub side, they abhor democracy, and have spent decades doing everything possible to undermine it. repubs know they cannot win legitimately, so they cheat at every opportunity---redistricting and gerrymandering, changing voting laws, blocking any change that would favor the majority (such as abolishing the Electoral College or changing the rules of the Senate---2 from each State, ignoring population size, so that a State like California only gets 2 Senators, but has a greater population than the combined population of Alaska, Alabama, West Virginia, Nevada, Iowa, Kansas, North Dakota, South Dakota, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Kentucky, Utah, Arkansas, Nebraska, Idaho and Montana---which have 32 Senators in total and are usually Red States. Those who still support 45 are generally poorly educated and too ignorant to understand what democracy even means, so repubs pander to the woefully ignorant.

 

Now, the repubs even have resorted to outright lies, claiming 'fraud' where there was none, trying to send fake electors to certify the election, pressuring officials to 'find votes', threatening officials who do their proper job, etc.

 

The worst and most egregious thing was mitch mcconnell blocking a SC appointment for 8 months "because it was an election year", yet rushed through 45's appointment of the catholic fanatic handmaiden SC justice 2 weeks before the 2020 election.

 

So 4 SC justices were appointed by POTUSs who did not win the popular vote, 1 under Bush II and 3 under 45.

 

Biden should get the Dems to increase the SC to 13 justices, have Biden appoint 4 more, then pass a Bill that locks the SC at 13 justices. With the House and Senate under Dem control, they could one-up the repubs and mcconnell by stuffing the court. Biden could also select 24 year old Harvard or Stanford grads who will live another 50 years, long after thomas, alito, and maybe kavanaugh and gorsuch are pushing daisies. Of course they won't do it.

 

Sadly, the Dems are weak. Pelosi is tough but old. Schumer is a wuss. Nobody keeps the woke far left in line, and that tiny element of the Dems feed the repubs ammo as if the woke Dems really were repubs in drag. The vast majority of Dems are moderates and centrists, but they fail to reign in the fringe. The repubs, OTOH, are now mainstream fascists and autocrats, who champion superstition (fake religion) and work tirelessly to destroy democracy. The majority of the repubs now are fascists and autocrats, the absolute opposite of what the US should be.

 

Coming under the current court is an end to gay marriage and if some repub elected officials get their way, and end to interracial marriage (justice thomas probably hopes this passes so he can rid himself of ginni, his whackjob wife)

Back of the net with that post.

[Jingthing]

Going backwards quickly.

It's becoming harder to be proud to be American.

Decent Americans have viewed our country as on a long bumpy path towards expanding civil rights.

But the fascists are winning.

Its not realistic to see America that way anymore.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/06/25/abortion-constitutional-rights/

 

2022

The Supreme Court prompts the question: Who gets rights in America?

 

 

Amy Martin was 14 years old when Roe v. Wade was decided, establishing a right to abortion that she took for granted for nearly five decades. Martin was 56 when the Supreme Court legalized same-sex marriage in 2015, a right she took advantage of when she married her partner of 30 years last week.

And when the court overturned that first decision on Friday, with Justice Clarence Thomas writing in his opinion that the court should next reexamine cases granting LGBTQ rights, Martin found herself seized with new terror that the second one could also fall.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Jingthing

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

1 hour ago, cooked said:

It is the job of the Supreme Court to decide on constitutional matters. They decided, quite rightly that as abortion is not mentioned in the constitution that the government of the USA does not have the right to impose the right to abortion on demand on the country, it's for the states to decide.

 

 

Many freedoms and rights that Americans enjoy are not expressly mentioned in the Constitution. The Constitution was intentionally written and has been consistently interpreted to provide a greater degree of liberty than that.

 

The original Roe v Wade ruling is not an outlier in that it established the right to abortion as being provided by the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment which establishes the right to privacy. Many other rights have been established in a similar manner under the 14th and other clauses. 

 

What is an outlier is the current Supreme Court's disregard for precedent and its personal religious and partisan political motivation for striking down Roe.

 

If the current Supreme Court can strike down Roe in this manner, there are many other rights that Americans potentially stand to lose as a result. It seems that the sole determinants in deciding whether to scrap those rights are the personal religious beliefs and partisan political motivation of some of the justices.

 

With the wife of one of the justices allegedly deeply involved in the January 6th coup attempt and others having either lied, misled or dissembled in their confirmation hearings, this court has no credibility left.

[swissie]

The world should fear the next "mid-term" elections in the US more than the devil fears the holy water.

[Credo]

According to the Supreme Court, life begins at conception and ends in a mass shooting.  

 

To those who see this as a State's Right issue, remember that was the same issue that kept slavery alive.  

 

The issue with Roe v. Wade is not State's Right, it's removing the fundamental right over our own bodies, not unlike the right of a person to be owned by another person.  

[Wrwest]

5 hours ago, worgeordie said:

God save America ..... maybe another civil war in the future.

regards Worgeordie

A "cold" Civil War is already raging. This current planned Republican Party policy direction has been in the works for years. Divide the states and keep a national government weak so it cannot demand equality for all American citizens equally. Those supporting the idea of independent state decisions was present in attempting the "Articles of Confederation". It was a failure in bringing about a nation. It again was a core cry leading to the American Civil War (the independent state should determine if slavery is to be legal). It was a failure in preserving a nation. In the USA we have 50 independent education systems . A failure in educating a nation equally (the US region with the lowest support for education? Go ahead and look up the documented facts ... SE states). We have dealt with this since arguing during the founding between the Federalist and Anti-federalists. It again has raised its ugly head and threatens whether the USA is, indeed, a nation.