LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Ben Zioner]

8 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Did my one-year report in Chiang Mai, using the Star Visa agent. Asked them if I could have done this myself, using the 90-day report drive-thru window. They said, probably not, that I'd have to go inside and find someone who knew what a TM95 was. Anyway, nice to know the report can be done at CM Imm.

 

Here's my receipt. Note they used the machine that spits out 90-day report receipts -- and my receipt is duly noted as a 90-day report receipt. But, the important annotation is: Next report is due in one year, not 90 days. So, all done for this year -- and didn't need to go to Bangkok, or hire an agent to go to Bangkok.

 

 

 

Thanks we should keep this example to show to our local cops...

[Pib]

@JimGant

   That's good news you were able to do your 1 year address report at your local immigration office vs needing to go to BOI Chamchuri Sq Immigration Office in Bangkok.   Regarding whether a LTR person can do the 1 year address report online using the 90 day address online reporting system, I was told by BOI in some email exchanges AND me talking face-to-face to two Immigration Officer at BOI Immigration Chamchuri Square that an LTR visa holder can "not" use the online 90 day reporting system to accomplish their 1 year address report.  And where the 90 days online reporting system mentions/implies BOI related visas address reporting can be done online (see partial snapshot below from the 90 day online system)  that refers to those types of BOI visas that require address reporting every 90 days....does not apply to 1 year address reporting visas like LTR or SMART visas.   But hey who really knows until someone tries it regardless of what BOI/immigration says.

 

 

 

 

Partial Snapshot from 90 day address reporting system.  And the circled part has shown in the online system even before the LTR visa became available in Sep 2022.

 

 

 

Edited June 29 by Pib

[stat]

16 hours ago, JackGats said:

Is anybody here suggesting remitted income might be tax-free for LTR holders while unremitted income might be taxable? This would be the World upside down. This would mean you'd need to have your pension transferred direct to your Thai bank account for it to be tax-free.

I am suggesting that there is a real possibility of that happening i.e. unremitted income will be taxable and remitted income will be taxfree. RD states explicitly "(only) remitted income is tax free". Remember one of BOI goals is to strenghten the thai economy and so they could be quite happy of forcing you to send money to Thailand.

 

Again it would be very simple to state that the LTR visa will be providing tax shelter for all worldwide income, no matter what. BTW the same happens when a foreign company builds a power plant in the other country. The receiving state confirms that no additional taxes or levies will be implemented, otherwise no investment would take place. Germany just lost one of the cases versus a foreign power plant operator, because Germany changed the rules.

 

I am simply amazed that a lot of people seem OK with the way they are treated and are not even posing a simple question to BOI about their potential tax bill. If BOI answers "we do not know, anything could happen" then at least everyone knows what maybe to expect.

 

I will not apply for an LTR if the tax issue is not solved, as for me taxes are paramount in my living location. I fully understand that for other people taxes are just a side issue so each to their own.

 

Have a good day everyone!

[JohnnyBD]

39 minutes ago, stat said:

I will not apply for an LTR if the tax issue is not solved, as for me taxes are paramount in my living location. I fully understand that for other people taxes are just a side issue so each to their own.

I am waiting approval of my LTR-WP visa and I'm not concerned at all about what may happen in the future if Thailand taxed residents based on worldwide income. Why, because, 50k for a visa is small change to begin with, and I will just less than 180 days in country if they taxed residents on worldwide income. Even though I'm pension rich, like someone said earlier, I am also investment income rich too, so you are not an outlier as much as you think. A worldwide income tax would also hit me very hard if I was a tax resident. Bur, I'm not one to panic. I will deal with whatever comes. Have a good day too.

Edited June 29 by JohnnyBD

[JimGant]

22 minutes ago, stat said:

I am suggesting that there is a real possibility of that happening i.e. unremitted income will be taxable and remitted income will be taxfree.

That makes no sense. If the worldwide taxation scenario is implemented, then the "remitted income" scenario is replaced, and goes away. There won't be any parallel taxation schemes. And if the 'powers that be' wanted LTR visa holders to have a special tax break, then there will have to be some rewording of the Royal Decree to accomodate such a tax break. Meanwhile, BoI is as clueless as the rest of us.

[JackGats]

1 hour ago, stat said:

.....

 

I will not apply for an LTR if the tax issue is not solved, as for me taxes are paramount in my living location. I fully understand that for other people taxes are just a side issue so each to their own.

 

Have a good day everyone!

What if the principle of acquired rights prevail? Existing LTRs tax-free, future LTRs taxable. This is not 100% unlikely. If I were you I'd get an LTR asap. It's a gamble worth 50k baht for sure.

 

[JohnnyBD]

36 minutes ago, JackGats said:

What if the principle of acquired rights prevail? Existing LTRs tax-free, future LTRs taxable. This is not 100% unlikely. If I were you I'd get an LTR asap. It's a gamble worth 50k baht for sure.

 

You may be right. There's a real possibility that all LTR-WP visa holders may be grandfathered in if a worldwide tax law is passed, especially since BOI advertised and promoted them as being tax exempt.

[K2938]

1 hour ago, JackGats said:

What if the principle of acquired rights prevail? Existing LTRs tax-free, future LTRs taxable. This is not 100% unlikely. If I were you I'd get an LTR asap. It's a gamble worth 50k baht for sure.

While a grandfathering is of course not impossible to exclude, I would see this as highly unlikely.  We will see.  But you are right, for 50k THB it might well be worth it if one already has everything prepared and is not concerned about disclosing his or her financial data.

Edited June 29 by K2938

[stat]

3 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

I am waiting approval of my LTR-WP visa and I'm not concerned at all about what may happen in the future if Thailand taxed residents based on worldwide income. Why, because, 50k for a visa is small change to begin with, and I will just less than 180 days in country if they taxed residents on worldwide income. Even though I'm pension rich, like someone said earlier, I am also investment income rich too, so you are not an outlier as much as you think. A worldwide income tax would also hit me very hard if I was a tax resident. Bur, I'm not one to panic. I will deal with whatever comes. Have a good day too.

Fully agree if you want to stay in TH below 180 days per year! I would rather stay in one country long term as I am not a travel guy. So if ww income taxation in TH will get legislated I will likely stay full year in another country.

[stat]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBD said:

You may be right. There's a real possibility that all LTR-WP visa holders may be grandfathered in if a worldwide tax law is passed, especially since BOI advertised and promoted them as being tax exempt.

Valid point that the option is low priced with 50K, however I think there will be 99.9% no grand fathering as only remitted income is mentioned in the royal degree AFAIK.

[stat]

25 minutes ago, K2938 said:

While a grandfathering is of course not impossible to exclude, I would see this as highly unlikely.  We will see.  But you are right, for 50k THB it might well be worth it if one already has everything prepared and is not concerned about disclosing his or her financial data.

I very much like that you mention the financial disclosure aspect! I really hate to disclose part of my finances and will only provide the needed 80K not a penny more per account segregation. However in the end they will get the CRS report and in addition every concierge in TH will see the stamp WP...

[oldcpu]

13 hours ago, stat said:

I am simply amazed that a lot of people seem OK with the way they are treated and are not even posing a simple question to BOI about their potential tax bill.

 

I think almost everyone is watching this, but I think there are a few reasons why everyone is not overly excited about this:

 

(1) this is not yet law - so far this is what? one or two Thai officials stating this 'their' plan?  A lot can change between now and the implementation, and

 

(2) I suspect most of us on an LTR-WP visa, already paid foreign tax (in country of source) on our income (pensions) and we are covered by a Double Tax Agreement, so the impact of any such law, IF it comes to pass, could be non-existant, and

 

(3) even if such a possible change to taxation is implemented (AND even if LTR visa impacted), if one compares a LTR-WP to a non-immigrant Type-O/OA (for retirement extensions) the LTR-WP is still preferable over the Type-O/OA, even if taxed, and

 

(4) given the Royal Decree backing the LTR Visa, it simply could be the LTR Visa will not see any such hypothetical new tax implementation, IF (note the IF) such is implemented.

 

The above is not to say those of us on the LTR Visa are not watching this.  I think clearly we are watching such, but there are reasons why we are not overly excited about such a prospect.

[MPoll]

The YouTube channel Retired Working For You has a recent interview with a tax lawyer (Mahanakorn Partners Group) discussing the tax rules. He asks specifically about taxation of unremitted income (at time 4:30 min). The short answer is that it is something being considered by the revenue department but is undecided and of course any effect regarding the tax exemption status of LTR holders is also undecided. Also he doesn’t think it will happen but who knows?

 

Regarding the current tax rule they talk about LTR’s (at 17:00 min). Remote workers pay 17% on their income. He mentions Wealthy Global Citizens and retirees and while not explicit the meaning (to me) is that remitted income is not taxed.

[stat]

On 6/30/2024 at 3:19 AM, oldcpu said:

 

I think almost everyone is watching this, but I think there are a few reasons why everyone is not overly excited about this:

 

(1) this is not yet law - so far this is what? one or two Thai officials stating this 'their' plan?  A lot can change between now and the implementation, and

 

(2) I suspect most of us on an LTR-WP visa, already paid foreign tax (in country of source) on our income (pensions) and we are covered by a Double Tax Agreement, so the impact of any such law, IF it comes to pass, could be non-existant, and

 

(3) even if such a possible change to taxation is implemented (AND even if LTR visa impacted), if one compares a LTR-WP to a non-immigrant Type-O/OA (for retirement extensions) the LTR-WP is still preferable over the Type-O/OA, even if taxed, and

 

(4) given the Royal Decree backing the LTR Visa, it simply could be the LTR Visa will not see any such hypothetical new tax implementation, IF (note the IF) such is implemented.

 

The above is not to say those of us on the LTR Visa are not watching this.  I think clearly we are watching such, but there are reasons why we are not overly excited about such a prospect.

I agree to most of your statements however with the exception of capital gains where the tax would climb from ZERO to over 35%! in case of 200K USD cap gains per year = maybe 300K assesable income (as losses cannot be offset). This would be a  tax difference of 90.000 USD + cost of compliance per year not exactly non-existent. If however you "only" reveive a pension the impact will be minimal. I have my doubts that there are many LTR visa holders with 80K passive income that do have low capital gains.

 

The comparision is not LTR with Non O it is rather PH or nomad lifestyle vs TH.

 

 

Edited July 1 by stat

[K2938]

3 hours ago, stat said:

nomad lifestyle

Nomad lifestyle will not work as any Western bank will most likely shut down your account if you are not providing them with an address and tax number

Edited July 1 by K2938

[oldcpu]

4 hours ago, stat said:

I agree to most of your statements however with the exception of capital gains where the tax would climb from ZERO to over 35%! in case of 200K USD cap gains per year = maybe 300K assesable income (as losses cannot be offset).

 

This would be a  tax difference of 90.000 USD + cost of compliance per year not exactly non-existent. If however you "only" reveive a pension the impact will be minimal. I have my doubts that there are many LTR visa holders with 80K passive income that do have low capital gains.

 

The comparision is not LTR with Non O it is rather PH or nomad lifestyle vs TH.

 

 

I note your points, but I don't believe either of us actually KNOW the financial average of statistics of those who applied for LTR-WP.   So I dispute that a bit.

 

In my case it was for an 40K pension (and NOT 80k) and a condo that mostly made up the $250K investment in Thailand. In fact my condo would have MORE than made up the $250K investment, but the condo was in both MY name and my wife's name, so I could only claim 50% of my condo's value.

 

I suspect it is quite possible more than 50% of the LTR-WP are going the $40K passive pension route, as they, have a condo in Thailand worth $250K. After all , this is a "Wealthy Pensioner" LTR visa. It stands to reason such could afford a condo.

 

But like you, I do not know the statistics here - we are both speculating.

 

As for the comparison with nomad lifestyle vs TH. That is YOUR comparison. Fair enough. But it is NOT my comparison. I suspect it is NOT the comparison of MANY others.

 

Please NOTE that I replied to a very specific quote of yours stating a LOT of people seemed ok ... you did NOT restrict it then to ONLY  those with a nomad lifestyle.  IF you decide to amend such and now restrict it to those with a nomad lifestyle, then possibly the LTR concerns you raise may be less OK to them (especially if they have managed their finances NOT to pay income tax anywhere in the world (to which I note good for them !! ) ), ...  although even they, if over age-50, are likely considering a non-immigrant type-O or type-OA visa - dependent on how any possible tax changes may , or may not, pan out.

.

[stat]

3 hours ago, K2938 said:

Nomad lifestyle will not work as any Western bank will most likely shut down your account if you are not providing them with an address and tax number

Not a problem so far, you provide your thai tax ID and they send the crs report to TH. So far not even a thai tax ID is needed as TH did not force a tax id on you. TRD is not bothered as you are below 180 days. Otherwise you could get a compliance residence in Malta where you would need to stay 90 days.

 

So far no problems.

 

 

[stat]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

I note your points, but I don't believe either of us actually KNOW the financial average of statistics of those who applied for LTR-WP.   So I dispute that a bit.

 

In my case it was for an 40K pension (and NOT 80k) and a condo that mostly made up the $250K investment in Thailand. In fact my condo would have MORE than made up the $250K investment, but the condo was in both MY name and my wife's name, so I could only claim 50% of my condo's value.

 

I suspect it is quite possible more than 50% of the LTR-WP are going the $40K passive pension route, as they, have a condo in Thailand worth $250K. After all , this is a "Wealthy Pensioner" LTR visa. It stands to reason such could afford a condo.

 

But like you, I do not know the statistics here - we are both speculating.

 

As for the comparison with nomad lifestyle vs TH. That is YOUR comparison. Fair enough. But it is NOT my comparison. I suspect it is NOT the comparison of MANY others.

 

Please NOTE that I replied to a very specific quote of yours stating a LOT of people seemed ok ... you did NOT restrict it then to ONLY  those with a nomad lifestyle.  IF you decide to amend such and now restrict it to those with a nomad lifestyle, then possibly the LTR concerns you raise may be less OK to them (especially if they have managed their finances NOT to pay income tax anywhere in the world (to which I note good for them !! ) ), ...  although even they, if over age-50, are likely considering a non-immigrant type-O or type-OA visa - dependent on how any possible tax changes may , or may not, pan out.

.

We see eye to eye on this! It all depends on your ratio of pension to capital gains. Nomad lifestyle was not part of the equation in the past as it was not needed (but could be in the future for TH at least). Loads of people I know cashed out their 20 year cap gains while staying in Thailand for 2 years. For those people the difference could be several millions USD of tax payments.

Edited July 1 by stat

[Ben Zioner]

11 hours ago, K2938 said:

Nomad lifestyle will not work as any Western bank will most likely shut down your account if you are not providing them with an address and tax number

This wouldn't stop you from staying less than 180 in Thailand.

[JohnnyBD]

Has anyone switched from a Non-O visa extension based on marriage to a LTR-WP visa? If so, were you required to go cancel your extension at Immigration before going to your LTR visa issuance appointment at the Chamchuri Square office, or did the Immigration office at Chamchuri Square take care of everything for you? Thanks for your reply...

Edited July 4 by JohnnyBD

[Ben Zioner]

30 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

Has anyone switched from a Non-O visa extension based on marriage to a LTR-WP visa? If so, were you required to go cancel your extension at Immigration before going to your LTR visa issuance appointment at the Chamchuri Square office, or did the Immigration office at Chamchuri Square take care of everything for you? Thanks for your reply...

BOI and Immigration Chamchuri took care of everything, but they recommended my Wife be available, at least on the phone, during the process. So she came along and it was a piece of cake. That was end October 2022 though.

[Presnock]

On 5/11/2024 at 3:35 PM, SingAPorn said:

Who wants this LTR  and go through all the harassment during submission ?

 

You have to "requalify" each year and go through all the whinges, document requests, translations, chase your pension or health insurance back home, perhaps new invented documents asked by the immigration who will want to show their power over the BOI etc etc...definately not worth the trip. Plus yes,  no tax, no reporting,  this or none of that on LTR but we all know who a chap in uniform can wake up one morning and decide to change it all due to a bad night ? Not wanting to take the risk and stay here more then 178 days  from now on. Other places in Asia will get our money as they are fussing far to much. Any person who own property in Thailand be it a condo or a leasee villa, should get a hassle free visa for at least 4 months based only on property ownership document submission, and that's it.

 

You want our money, but no want us to enjoy what we buy ?

no that is a NO requalificaton yearly...only advise boi or immigration locally of current Thai address.  If one leaves Thailand anytime during the year, upon return to Thailand, he only needs to advise BOI of his address in 365 days as the time is reset if one leaves the country.  But, if the LTR is not for you, don't apply, for me it is the cheapest with the best benefits...just saying and I am not RICH.

[Presnock]

On 5/11/2024 at 11:02 PM, SingAPorn said:

For the others,  check out the screen shot some place on this thread that clearly mentions the annual requalification process by BOi and immigration and then get an idea for yourself.  One can be rather skeptical  with some "influencers" who are pushing and perhaps toting for their own interests,

You are totally wrong - annual report of local address only same as O or OA 90-day reports only this is yearly - ifyou leave the country then the 1-year next report is due in 365 days, you could end up not having to do any report of your address if you kept leaving and re-entering.  I only have a Govt Pension - not taxable by Thailand so the LTR doesn't really do anything tax wise for me but I like not having to report every 90 days to immigration.  Overall cost for 10-year period basically can be a tad cheaper than the other yearly renewals.  Just saying...for some it is great others guess not based on complaints so they must not meet the requirements.  Goodluck all.

[Presnock]

On 6/29/2024 at 11:04 AM, Ben Zioner said:

 

Not, read RD 743 and associated implementation papers  carefully, some even believe it just "grandfathers" the cancelled "not remitted in the year of earning" exemption, so I believe it could end up that way.

 

And it would make sense from the Thai (Finance) point of view; if the average LTR retiree makes 100k USD this could be, for every 1000 visas, 100 Million USD (35 Billion THB)  brought into the country every year. 

 

Ok, it maybe wishful thinking on my part, and as someone pointed out TIT and thing never make sense, but on the other hand I have found BOI to be quite impressive.

 

An other thing gives me that nagging feeling this could be the case is that, last September, when people started querying BOI about remittance tax there answer was "remitted income not taxed". And we now for sure that global IT was already considered at that stage, the first article on the September changes here was mentioning it. 

 

And last, wouldn't that be exactly BOI's mission? Otherwise why would they deal with retirement visa? 

In addition, and logically - the govt advertised the LTR to get people Some rich, some smart/talented for Thailand, some well off pensioners and others with some money...thus to break the very promise of no tax on money remitted into Thailand would most likely cause many of these LTR holders to leave Thailand and definitely warn any prospective retirees to avoid Thailand forever.  My opinion anyway.

 

[stat]

45 minutes ago, Presnock said:

In addition, and logically - the govt advertised the LTR to get people Some rich, some smart/talented for Thailand, some well off pensioners and others with some money...thus to break the very promise of no tax on money remitted into Thailand would most likely cause many of these LTR holders to leave Thailand and definitely warn any prospective retirees to avoid Thailand forever.  My opinion anyway.

 

I agree with your post! This is why I am still hoping that more people will ask BOI if the visa provides for a PIT shelter in the case of unremitted income. This shows them that a lot of peolpe wait for an answer and it shows that a lot of people will maybe not go ahead in applying or stay a tax resident  in TH if remitted income is taxed with a high income tax rate .

[TravelerEastWest]

On 7/4/2024 at 11:22 AM, JohnnyBD said:

Has anyone switched from a Non-O visa extension based on marriage to a LTR-WP visa? If so, were you required to go cancel your extension at Immigration before going to your LTR visa issuance appointment at the Chamchuri Square office, or did the Immigration office at Chamchuri Square take care of everything for you? Thanks for your reply...

Very easy BOI staff took care of everything - no request for my wife to be there. They also took care of changing my work permit to a digital one.

 

I did briefly talk to an agent who mentioned doing extra canceling etc - I dropped them and did everything myself - much easier then working with an agent...

[JohnnyBD]

Many thanks to Jim, Pib, Ben & Traveler for all the advice. I just received my LTR-WP visa, and it was a very easy and pleasant experience. Now I can relax...

Edited July 8 by JohnnyBD

[Pib]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBD said:

Many thanks to Jim, Pib, Ben & Traveler for all the advice. I just received my LTR-WP visa, and it was a very easy and pleasant experience. Now I can relax...

Congrats.  Glad it worked out easily.  Since you switched from a Non O "Marriage" extension maybe  you could overview what BOI/Chamchuri Sq Immigraiton required to cancell that Marriage Extension just before issuing you the LTR Pensioner visa. 

 

Was it a fresh Kor Ror 2 (i.e., marriage registration) to confirm you are still married/lived up to that requirement for marriage extension, a copy of your pretty Kor Ror 3 Marriage Certifcate you got when getting married (and maybe they wanted to just see that original also), and a copy of your Thai spouse ID card.   All of these signed by you and wife except the Thai ID just required the spouse's signature.  Of course taking along the wife is good "if easy to do" but not required with the signed docs.  Just what did Chamchuri Sq want to see to cancel your current marriage extension.  Congrats again.

[JohnnyBD]

49 minutes ago, Pib said:

Congrats.  Glad it worked out easily.  Since you switched from a Non O "Marriage" extension maybe  you could overview what BOI/Chamchuri Sq Immigraiton required to cancell that Marriage Extension just before issuing you the LTR Pensioner visa. 

 

Was it a fresh Kor Ror 2 (i.e., marriage registration) to confirm you are still married/lived up to that requirement for marriage extension, a copy of your pretty Kor Ror 3 Marriage Certifcate you got when getting married (and maybe they wanted to just see that original also), and a copy of your Thai spouse ID card.   All of these signed by you and wife except the Thai ID just required the spouse's signature.  Of course taking along the wife is good "if easy to do" but not required with the signed docs.  Just what did Chamchuri Sq want to see to cancel your current marriage extension.  Congrats again.

The 4 docs downloaded from BOI account (2 of them 2-sided). My passport, copy of passport bio page, visa stamp pages, last entry stamp page (all signed) my original TM47 90-day report, copy of marriage Kor3 certificate (2-sided), copy of updated marriage registration Kor2 (2-sided), I made color copies, but they didn't ask me to sign them. Wife's ID card signed by her. That's it. Thanks

Edited July 8 by JohnnyBD

[Ben Zioner]

On 6/29/2024 at 9:33 AM, mokwit said:

At a certain level of assets it seems foreigners cease to be a threat to"national security" such that they have to report their address every 90 days. It is really about keeping us in our place.

Don't think they are worried about "national security". But they can, rightly,  be worried about a potential burden for the healthcare and other social welfare systems, with very little benefits for the economy. And you can't deny that LTR people don't carry the same risks for a limited value.