LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[ThailandRyan]

5 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Nailed it. I honestly don't think they have any idea at all what types of people earn that kind of money and what their employment terms are. They literally could have plucked that 80k figure out of thin air because it "sounds about right". 

 

From all my experience in the country the vast, vast majority of people are here because it saves them money and provides them a way to get by with less. I just can't see people earning a high wage in Western countries being able or willing to relocate full time to a country like Thailand. Sounds like a total fantasy to me but what do I know...

I agree with your view as far as workers working.  I think that is why they have a few categories.  I am now retired and as such would qualify under the Pensioner Category, as It would be easy to obtain the letter from my Pension group, and then obtain a certificate from my Health Insurance for the next year showing coverage.  I am sure supplying said documents through the BOI would be done to keep the LTR Visa moving forward for the next year and so on.  This would allow me to repatriate my 800k in a Thai Fixed deposit account back into the US and use it to build income where it currently makes close to nothing.

[DjChris28]

5 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

From all my experience in the country the vast, vast majority of people are here because it saves them money and provides them a way to get by with less. I just can't see people earning a high wage in Western countries being able or willing to relocate full time to a country like Thailand. Sounds like a total fantasy to me but what do I know...

Well from my experience of applying for work in Thailand. I went to many interviews in Thailand and I spent a good portion of the interview explaining why I would be stable and why I would want to come work in Thailand when I can earn so much back home. 

 

I'd say it's rare to find anyone who earns good to come work in Thailand, but once you are the type that wants to work in Thailand even when you earn well back home and you are willing to waive salary for the lifestyle, it's hard to even convince an employer to hire you. I've had Facebook headhunt me a few months back and I declined to go forward with them, but yet when I'm in Thailand, I could by applying for a software engineering role for like 6 months.

 

This is why the LTR might be attractive to me. But getting an employer back home willing to allow me to live in another country is also difficult. About prob the same as landing a job in Thailand.

[NorthernRyland]

 

2 minutes ago, DjChris28 said:

This is why the LTR might be attractive to me. But getting an employer back home willing to allow me to live in another country is also difficult. About prob the same as landing a job in Thailand.

This is exactly the problem the person who made that visa doesn't understand.  If you're making 80k/year you're kind of a valuable asset and I don't see why your boss would let you live in another country unless you were 100% remote.

 

I'm surprised it would be hard to find a job in Thailand. Don't they need high skilled programmers and the likes?

[DjChris28]

2 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

I'm surprised it would be hard to find a job in Thailand. Don't they need high skilled programmers and the likes?

They need Tech leads more which is more management type roles. Software engineers will be handed to the cheaper labor. But even as a tech lead, they will look to see if you've been the type to jump around alot in your career, but that's the nature of contracting work in the west.

 

5 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

This is exactly the problem the person who made that visa doesn't understand.  If you're making 80k/year you're kind of a valuable asset and I don't see why your boss would let you live in another country unless you were 100% remote.

My boss knows he will lose me if he doesn't. So I use that playing card. Companies don't want to allow people to do this because "It's something they have never done before" and they think it gives too much power to the employee. At worst case, next year, I'm going to Thailand with a lot of savings and gonna stay there for 6 months minimum so my boss knows he will lose me unless he offers me remote working from anywhere. I'm trying to use the golden handcuffs against the whole situation - that is if I get paid well back home and that stops employers in Thailand from hiring, then I'll use the money I make to just live there for periods of time just on savings on and off.

[NorthernRyland]

2 minutes ago, DjChris28 said:

At worst case, next year, I'm going to Thailand with a lot of savings and gonna stay there for 6 months minimum so my boss knows he will lose me unless he offers me remote working from anywhere.

Nice plan good luck. If they let you off 6 months a year that's already pretty good though. Not sure how many companies would even let you get away with a month or two.

[Northwest87]

1 hour ago, DjChris28 said:

So I should be eligible for this visa, but there alot of questions that need answering. I bet when this comes out, there will be no way to ask questions without actually flying to thailand and going to an immigration centre.

 

a) The section Highly skilled professional, does this include overseas companies or is it only for Thai companies? It says "Targeted industries" in the employer section. But it doesn't say if this is for thai companies only.

b) Is the 80k USD gross or net income? I can meet the gross requirement, but net is on and off meeting that requirement depending on USD exchange rate.

c) are we required to spend the whole year there or can we come and go and work remotely there while we are there?

d) With the 100k USD deposit, do you just mean just show that you have 100k USD in the bank or do we actually have to pay you 100K USD? Why would anyone offer 100K USD when the health insurance will be much cheaper?

e) Are we taxed on international income? If so, will you honor double taxation agreement and not tax us the difference our home countries tax us anyway?

f) The 150 million requirement for the employer, what exactly do you consider "the employer". If I run it through my own company/entity in the middle and I invoice and bill my only employer/service contract who has a revenue over 150 million, does this count? If it does not, it means i'll have to work directly for the employer as a permanent employee.

 

It's funny this visa. I might JUST not be able to meet the requirements. But on the other hand, I have over 100K USD in savings and I earn so much that I can technically every 6 months, take a 6 months holiday with the savings I have. It's like thailand, when they come out with these types of visas, there's always better options elsewhere that the visa's become redundant.  For me, I can already work for an employer in thailand on an non imm b visa for my skills and I earn so much back home, that I can just holiday every 6 months. That has come to me first even before meeting the requirements of this visa. It's quite funny.

 

Who is this visa suited for:

a) People who earn so much back home that want to live in thailand but don't want to be paid low.

b) People who can't get work in thailand due to being paid highly back home and employer's in thailand not wanting to hire them because of salary differences.

 

I'm no expert on this, but I think I can answer a couple of your questions. The highly skilled professionals category, that's for working in Thailand for local companies "in targeted industries" or educational institutions. I assume it could be for a foreign company located there, as long as it fits one of the "target" industries.

 

If you work in Thailand online (under the highly-skilled professional category or so-called "internet nomad") for a foreign entity located outside Thailand, Thai taxes and immigration simply do not care; technically, its akin to surfing the web as far as they're concerned; other than that, you cannot legally work in Thailand without a work permit, even as a volunteer. You can also elect not to work under that visa, or to work part-time; nowhere does it say (so far) you absolutely have to work and generate income under that visa, and it's foreign income anyway. My take but I have been wrong before... ????

 

I know they talk about a digital work permit and the like for the LTR visa, but this is useless and even laughable if none of your income is derived from Thai sources locally or abroad. Why you would go and declare that income in Thailand makes no sense, except to make your life miserable with paperwork that local authorities would probably not even know what to do with since it is not taxable in Thailand. This said, Thailand does honor tax treaties; when I worked there I paid the tax in Thailand on my job because taxes were deducted (with my Thai Social Security contributions) out of my paycheck; under the treaty with the US I didn't declare them as income in the US. I got it all back at the end of the year from the Thai taxman because he is not greedy and my salary was small. So the thing to do if there is a tax treaty with your home country, is to simply to pay your taxes there as usual. If you are ever questioned on your income by the Thais, it is more likely to be whether or not any of it originates in Thailand, rather than whether or not you earn income outside of Thailand: you're not a Thai citizen.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Northwest87

[Old Croc]

37 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

I just look at it as yet another option--(its not for me but....  )_ I notice that with that option-they do away

with the 90 days that some people find so absolutely arduous to do. 

 

I think that most people who have lived here for some time (say over 20 years)

realize that there has been many beneficial changes in Thailand's visa law's

It's the many changes that are always the worry. I am an OA who years down the line found a new onerous criteria suddenly added to my extensions. Are you happy that changes wont happen to this visa class when some greedy politician decides he should get a bigger share of your wealth?

The 90 day reporting is a non event now with the new on-line system. One of the few positive changes imo.

[sanuk711]

2 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

t's the many changes that are always the worry. I am an OA who years down the line found a new onerous criteria suddenly added to my extensions.

Yer-- I have a friend who also is in the same situation, I asked him why he took the OA--just said that when he applied (before changes) the Embassy said this was the best way to go. This whole OA = Insurance seem to get tied up with the Covid situation, Is it not possible to change now it now.

[DjChris28]

35 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Nice plan good luck. If they let you off 6 months a year that's already pretty good though. Not sure how many companies would even let you get away with a month or two.

Oh, I will quit and reapply for a new job when i come back to Aus. That's why I contract, can do a gig for 6 months and then i'm a free man afterwards. Work is like rain. it just comes and comes back home. Not so much in thailand.

Edited July 11, 2022 by DjChris28

[GroveHillWanderer]

18 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Your combining all 4 categories into 1 sir.  I suggest you look at what I posted as it lays it out for each one.  The Wealthy Pensioner only needs to show 80k USD a year and Insurance to qualify.  If they do not have the 80K USD then there are a few more things they need.

Yes, I was summarizing, and in doing so, deliberately lumping some of the categories/requirements together for brevity and also because not to do so would have meant simply repeating in full, what was in the graphic that was already posted.

 

My overall point still stands - it's not the fee that will put people off, it's the other financial requirements.

Edited July 11, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer

[ThailandRyan]

10 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Yes, I was summarizing, and in doing so, deliberately lumping some of the categories/requirements together for brevity and also because not to do so would have meant simply repeating in full, what was in the graphic that was already posted.

 

My overall point still stands - it's not the fee that will put people off, it's the other financial requirements.

Regarding your last sentence, it will not put of a wealthy pensioner who can qualify, there are only 2 shown requirements, 80k USD a year, and the Health insurance.........sure there are a few of us who would rather do the LTR then doing the 10 year Elite Visa.  I know what I can do with the Million Baht.  Having money does not mean throwing it away if you do not golf etc... 

Edited July 11, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[GroveHillWanderer]

5 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Not for a wealthy pensioner who can qualify, there are only 2 shown requirements, 80k USD a year, and the Health insurance.........sure there are a few of us who would rather do the LTR then doing the 10 year Elite Visa.  I know what I can do with the Million Baht.  Having money does not mean throwing it away if you do not golf etc... 

Again the fact that some people do qualify and will apply does not alter the point I was making - which was that the fee is not what will put people off.

Edited July 11, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer

[Wrwest]

On 7/9/2022 at 7:01 PM, ThailandRyan said:

Think your confused, it is not 80k Thb per month, instead it averages out to being about $6,666 USD or 239k Baht per month.  80K USD for the year. There are many who make this from a pension, well at least coming from the US there are.  The pension type I and a few others I know is a very rare now adays Defined Benefit pension, where the amount only increases every year based on a COLA adjustment but is also a lifetime pension.

Yes, then confused. Out of my reach. If I had that sum I would have retired in the states and traveled from there. Medicare would be of some value … outside the US (festival exceptions), it si of no value.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Wrwest

[aussiexpat]

29 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Regarding your last sentence, it will not put of a wealthy pensioner who can qualify, there are only 2 shown requirements, 80k USD a year, and the Health insurance...

Only US$40k required if you have a Masters degree

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, DjChris28 said:

Right. They just go holiday there on the savings. Although nobody wants to spend 600k baht on a elite visa if they only go there half the year.

 

What i'd really like to see is the elite visa offering 1 year options at maybe 120k baht.

Cheaper to fly to KL and back.

 

 

[mudcat]

1 hour ago, Old Croc said:

It's the many changes that are always the worry. I am an OA who years down the line found a new onerous criteria suddenly added to my extensions. Are you happy that changes wont happen to this visa class when some greedy politician decides he should get a bigger share of your wealth?

The 90 day reporting is a non event now with the new on-line system. One of the few positive changes imo.

In my interaction with BOI I was assured that their $50K medical plan did not require outpatient.  This savings and being able to un-trap my bank deposit tipped me over to applying for a LTR when available.  

[RocketDog]

On 7/10/2022 at 5:15 AM, Northwest87 said:

I am in a similar situation, and interested in this visa type, so I'll throw my hat in this ring.  I think I might (and I stress "might") qualify under option 2 wealthy pensioner and 3 digital nomads, and from the info you give I think that you might yourself also fit these options if current publicly available info is correct (for option 2 US$80K income in the last two years at the time of your application, which does not trigger the minimum investment in Thailand rule). The English wording does not say the income has to be from retirement sources, only that it is dated from the time of the application filing. If this is the case, what documents will have to be submitted to prove that income? This has not been confirmed as far as I know; and will work income be satisfactory or subject to interpretation from embassy or whatever agency will run the show (the Board of Investment?) since option 2 is for "pensioners". Hey! is this pre-tax by the way? I will optimistically assume it is for the time being. ???? This is the no-pain option, with only the income having to be justified. 

 

I agree about the devil being in the details: that may screw up everything, but especially when it comes to work contracts under option 3 (remote work). Here too, I  am in a somewhat similar situation as yours (easily employable remotely in my industry, fits the experience requirements, and have a Master's degree). For instance, the company size of allowable foreign employers is clear enough, but what justificative paperwork will be accepted to prove that the company has made $150 million (or whatever the requirement will be) the last 3 years? If it's a listed company, then the listing should be easy to prove (in principle), but justifying the income for non-listed companies is tricky for the smaller ones, precisely because they are private, and public sources such as Dun and Bradstreet are only indicative in those cases.

 

Also, what constitute a "work contract" for the purpose of the visa? I don't know about other countries, but in my contractor's experience in the US, and I have an extensive one, I'll get a contract every time I take on a contractual job (remote or not) because "cover-your-ass" is a way of life in the US, but it won't guarantee me a job for a finite period of time. Typically, a contract of this type is essentially a non-disclosure agreement that protects the employer, and not much else aside from the duration and the type of work to be performed; it may mention the pay rate, but not always when the jobs vary and the pay rate varies with it: often, you get a duration and a rate guarantee when you work on-site, but this combination is not the norm in many other situations. I can get employed all year long remote, but my employer(s) may not necessarily know at the beginning of the year what the jobs available will be (especially in government contract work) . So the fact that you have a contract on hand is not a proof of guaranteed income of length of employment. This is where I see the biggest question mark in term of what will be left to civil servants' interpretation; the generic wording of the rules is worrisome and may indicate a lack of understanding/research into foreign contractual practices, at least in the context of using them as proof of guaranteed employment.

 

That was my 2 cents...

 

NW

More like a hundred bucks, but thanks anyway.????

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, DjChris28 said:

What i'd really like to see is the elite visa offering 1 year options at maybe 120k baht.

At which point, many on here would be pointing out that it is much more economical to get an Elite at a million baht for 20 years (50k per year) rather than paying an extra 70k baht per year. On the other hand, those visiting for six months might find a 60k visa with no extension or reporting requirements very attractive. The authorities need to set up a system where people can propose their own custom visa conditions, and have Immigration agree or deny the applications on an individual basis.

[Misty]

2 hours ago, DjChris28 said:

So I should be eligible for this visa, but there alot of questions that need answering. I bet when this comes out, there will be no way to ask questions without actually flying to thailand and going to an immigration centre.

 

 

No need to wait or fly to Thailand. You can contact the BOI directly about this now. They've been answering specific questions by email since at least May.

[1FinickyOne]

On 7/9/2022 at 12:57 PM, jensmann said:

If I have a million dollar back home, I wouldn't be here. Simple...

why not? A million probably goes much further here than back home... right?

[ThailandRyan]

3 hours ago, sanuk711 said:

Yer-- I have a friend who also is in the same situation, I asked him why he took the OA--just said that when he applied (before changes) the Embassy said this was the best way to go. This whole OA = Insurance seem to get tied up with the Covid situation, Is it not possible to change now it now.

At the time, prior to the insurance mandate in 2019 for O-A visa holders, the O-A was the best deal, you could come and go as much as you wanted, and prior to the end of the first year you could leave Thailand and get a second year upon returning to Thailand as long as you returned by the last day of the first year.  All you needed to do then was buy the ME re-entry permit and you could again come and go.  At the end of that second year you would head back to a Royal Consulate where you hailed from, and pick up a new O-A Visa with few problems.  However 2019 saw the change to the visa, and then the extensions of stay therein for those on an O-A, as far as having the mandated insurance added effective October 31, 2019. 

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, 1FinickyOne said:

why not? A million probably goes much further here than back home... right?

Exactly, as I have found over the years prior to coming and going and now living here permanently my money goes between 3 and 4 times farther, depending on what we buy or in general for prices on most everything.  Housing is hit or miss with the prices, as well as cars and high end luxury goods.

[radiochaser]

On 7/10/2022 at 9:34 PM, Wuvu2 said:

Uh, you've answered your own question. People with $80k/year income and $1m in assets have a lot better things to do than hang out in social media forums ????

I'm not supposed to be here?  

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, radiochaser said:

I'm not supposed to be here?  

Some people just have no concept of how others live there lives and just throw out blatant false narratives.  Many of us retired here who qualify, some folks just think we are all on SS and Sexpats.

[Beer Is Life]

Maybe also need to remember that, if you are required to put a quarter million bucks into Thai banks or bonds, that you lose the potential investment income of that money.  Eg, if you invest in a conservative bond fund that pays 3% in dividends, you are losing $7500 a year.

[wtboatr]

Since I will quality, I'm very interested in obtaining the LTR visa based on my pension income.  The benefits for me are:

 

* No 90 day reporting

* The ability to obtain a work permit

* The ability to start a business without the need to hire Thai's.

* The ability to pay taxes and quality for PR or Citizenship.

 

If I obtain this LTR visa based on my pension income, will I still be able to start a business in Thailand and pay taxes on the profits?  I want to pay 3 years of taxes in order to to qualify for PR or Citizenship.

 

The Thailand Elite Visa and "retirement visa" don't allow the visa holder to work in Thailand.  Therefore there's no path to PR or Citizenship.

 

Thank you,

[howerde]

4 hours ago, wtboatr said:

Since I will quality, I'm very interested in obtaining the LTR visa based on my pension income.  The benefits for me are:

 

* No 90 day reporting

* The ability to obtain a work permit

* The ability to start a business without the need to hire Thai's.

* The ability to pay taxes and quality for PR or Citizenship.

 

If I obtain this LTR visa based on my pension income, will I still be able to start a business in Thailand and pay taxes on the profits?  I want to pay 3 years of taxes in order to to qualify for PR or Citizenship.

 

The Thailand Elite Visa and "retirement visa" don't allow the visa holder to work in Thailand.  Therefore there's no path to PR or Citizenship.

 

Thank you,

You do not get a work permit or any of the other points you mention if you are using the  Foreign retirees option 'Wealthy Pensioner', if you want to work or set up a business then you need to use 1 of the other 3 options

https://www.boi.go.th/upload/content/LTR.pdf

Edited July 14, 2022 by howerde
missing text

[oldcpu]

On 7/11/2022 at 7:06 AM, Srikcir said:

2. Health insurance required can come from a foreign provider vs. Thai provider.

My foreign health insurance is limitless both in duration, age and cost for inpatient services. The group premiums do increase based on cola; but that is offset by cola adjustments to my income.

For outpatient I have a 15% copayment plus annual deductible, but when the annual amount exceeds a certain limit, the provider then covers 100%. 

 

With respect, I have a large degree of skepticism as to how the details of this Health Insurance requirement for the LTR will be implemented for retirees.

 

If the Type-OA visa Health requirements is any indication, the Health Insurance requirement, of $USD 50,000 coverage (or social security benefits) is the 'catch'.   Call me a cynic, but I don't believe Thailand will implement a $100,000 US (self insurance) requirement without putting some additional constraint on it making it unpalatable or impractical for most Expats <<< for me this is the main concern.

 

As for the $USD 50,000 coverage from an insurance company, my speculation is Thailand will require foreign insurance companies to fill-in and sign a form which will be unpalatable to them, and that most foreign insurance companies will refuse to do such.

 

I believe this will force expats to either give up likely superior foreign Health Insurance (and buy the inferior Thai health insurance branch Health Insurance) or buy double Health Insurance. That is the case for me (for a Type-OA visa) which is why my last extension on my Type-OA was done for reason of marriage to a Thai, and not for reason of "retirement".

 

Further, as for the "social security benefits", my speculation is Thailand will require a letter from one's Embassy (or some letter similar from one's foreign government) stating one has that "social security benefit" coverage and further I speculate that the Embassy's or Foreign governments will refuse to meet the exact specified Thai standards due to some Thai requirement detail unpalatable to them.

 

In summary, my fear is this new Thai visa has not been thought through sufficiently in the detail of its implementation to ensure it can be met by the majority of expats who otherwise would easily meet such a requirement.

Edited July 14, 2022 by oldcpu

[wtboatr]

18 hours ago, howerde said:

You do not get a work permit or any of the other points you mention if you are using the  Foreign retirees option 'Wealthy Pensioner', if you want to work or set up a business then you need to use 1 of the other 3 options

https://www.boi.go.th/upload/content/LTR.pdf

Does the "Wealthy Pensioner" option at least replace the 90 day immigration reporting with a 1 year immigration reporting requirement?

 

In order to qualify for a path to PR & Citizenship, my only option left among the LTR visa options is the "Wealthy Global Citizen" option.  That option requires $1 Million in assets plus a $500K investment in Thailand (bonds, business, or property).  That's $1.5 Million I would have to have available in order to qualify for an LTR visa. 

 

My desire is to start a business rather than work for at least 3 years for someone else.  I find the thought of managing my own business much more enjoyable than taking orders from a superior and working set hours. 

 

Do you think investing $500K in condos and renting them out will qualify me for the LTR visa and a path to citizenship?  My business would then be that of a "real estate investor and property manager".  I would pay taxes on my rental income for 3 years then apply for PR or Citizenship.

 

Yes, I know that investing in condos in a terrible business idea.  I hate the thought of it myself.   However, if I must purchase $500K in something (bonds, businesses, or real estate) in order to obtain a path to citizenship via the LTR visa, purchasing condos is the best of these terrible options.  Once I'm granted PR or Citizenship, I can sell the condos and hopefully break even on my investment.

 

Your advice is sincerely appreciated.

[wtboatr]

Other than the LTR visa publication found on the Thailand Board of Investment website, is anyone aware of any other document that provides more detail on the LTR visa program?

 

The document (see attached) is just a summary of the LTR visa program.  There must be a more detailed document out there that the summary refers to.

 

https://www.boi.go.th/un/guides

 

 

 

LTR-1.pdf