LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Ben Zioner]

2 hours ago, MPoll said:

That would be logical and fair. I’m not sure how we would lose the LTR but going back to your previous visa makes sense. Note that the OA was the only visa I’ve had in Thailand.
 

Also the LTR has an insurance requirement. The insurance I used for my OA qualified me for the LTR. As for the Thai insurance being worthless - I purchased my Thai insurance 10 million baht policy in 2018 before there was an OA insurance requirement. It costs me less than my previous US insurance.

You are ok, but there are people on OA who have to purchase some  "empty shell", "worthless", Thai insurance while they have very strong coverage from their home country and/or their former employer. I was  able to avoid this as I all my prior [OA] extensions were under the "Thai Wife" category. 

[MPoll]

6 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

For me one of the downsides in swapping my Non-IMM O Visa for a longer term Visa (& this is more the Thailand Elite than LTR)  is I would give up any Grandfathering rights that might apply to existing Non-IMM O Holders...

I got my OA in 2017. They added the health insurance requirement in 2019 and there was no grandfathering of previous OA visa holders. We suddenly got the new requirement no matter how long ago we got our OA. So my confidence in grandfathering is pretty low.

[Mike Teavee]

4 hours ago, MPoll said:

I got my OA in 2017. They added the health insurance requirement in 2019 and there was no grandfathering of previous OA visa holders. We suddenly got the new requirement no matter how long ago we got our OA. So my confidence in grandfathering is pretty low.

I agree but I do think they would Grandfather in age requirement as unlike the money in the bank requirements & (for most) the insurance requirements your Age isn’t something that you can change to meet a change to the requirements 

Anyways this is an LTR thread so apologies for going off Topic… Will just say again that when you get your LTR all previous Visas are null & void so if you were to lose it you would be starting from scratch, nobody is going to blow the cobwebs off your previous Visa.

 

 

 

[tai4de2]

On 8/9/2023 at 1:44 PM, Mike Teavee said:

when you get your LTR all previous Visas are null & void 

I had a valid non-O when my LTR was issued as an eVisa. There was nothing about canceling the non-O and the consulate told me on the phone that said visa would not be automatically canceled and doesn’t need to be. So I believe my non-O may still be valid. 
 

As a practical matter this probably doesn’t matter because I won’t be using the non-O any more, and it will expire in 6 months. So I do agree with your overall conclusion. Just being pedantic. 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, tai4de2 said:

I had a valid non-O when my LTR was issued as an eVisa. There was nothing about canceling the non-O and the consulate told me on the phone that said visa would not be automatically canceled and doesn’t need to be. So I believe my non-O may still be valid. 
 

As a practical matter this probably doesn’t matter because I won’t be using the non-O any more, and it will expire in 6 months. So I do agree with your overall conclusion. Just being pedantic. 

You cannot hold 2 valid visas at the same time so your old Non-O would be considered cancelled once the LTR was put in your passport. 
 

But as you say it’s irrelevant anyway as the Non-OA has a maximum lifetime of 12 months & we were discussing what happened if he didn’t meet the criteria when it came to getting the 2nd 5 year visa. 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[tai4de2]

7 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

You cannot hold 2 valid visas at the same time so your old Non-O would be considered cancelled once the LTR was put in your passport. 

LA Consulate told me differently. Non-O not canceled and it’s possible to simultaneously hold two visas of different categories. Both eVisas in my case… but I’ll never test this theory LOL because I’m going to just use my LTR from now on. 

[Mike Teavee]

4 hours ago, tai4de2 said:

LA Consulate told me differently. Non-O not canceled and it’s possible to simultaneously hold two visas of different categories. Both eVisas in my case… but I’ll never test this theory LOL because I’m going to just use my LTR from now on. 

I confess that I don’t know how “EVisas” work & have always assumed that they were a means to entering Thailand where you would get an actual (as in physical) Visa put in your passport but now I think about it my mate is on a BOI “Smart” Visa & I don’t think he has an “actual” Visa in his passport. 
 

I’ve always been under the impression that you cannot hold 2 valid visas simultaneously (unless you have 2 passports) & adding a new Visa to your passport would cancel the existing one but if these Visas aren’t in your passport then I can see how that wouldn’t happen. 
 

But surely they cancel an old Electronic Visa when you get your new one or wouldn’t that cause confusion at the airport? 

[Ben Zioner]

On 8/9/2023 at 7:44 PM, Mike Teavee said:

Will just say again that when you get your LTR all previous Visas are null & void so if you were to lose it you would be starting from scratch, nobody is going to blow the cobwebs off your previous Visa.

If that was so, and I agree it should be, but TIT, why would they insert into @MPoll's passport two stamps showing that he arrived in Thailand in 2017 on an OA visa?

[Mike Teavee]

18 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

If that was so, and I agree it should be, but TIT, why would they insert into @MPoll's passport two stamps showing that he arrived in Thailand in 2017 on an OA visa?

Don’t understand the question.

 

Are you saying they stamped him in on his Non-OA Visa & his LTR? In which case he would have 2 different Permission to stay stamps/dates, highly doubt the Thai immigration systems

cater for that!
 

Or Stamped him in on his Non-OA Visa then he picked up his LTR (at BOI in Bangkok) at which point they should have cancelled the permission to stay stamp from the Non-IMM OA & the Visa and gave him a new PTS for his LTR.
 

Anyways this discussion is mute as the question was something like “What would happen if I no longer met the Criteria when applying for my 2nd 5 year Visa, would I revert to my Non-IMM OA” & the answer is NO because that Visa would be gone (should be gone when you get the LTR but would certainly be gone after 12 months… Unless you have 2 passports & extend it each year, but we’re just getting silly now). 

Edited August 12, 2023 by Mike Teavee

[Ben Zioner]

2 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Anyways this discussion is mute as the question was something like “What would happen if I no longer met the Criteria when applying for my 2nd 5 year Visa, would I revert to my Non-IMM OA” & the answer is NO because that Visa would be gone (should be gone when you get the LTR but would certainly be gone after 12 months… Unless you have 2 passports & extend it each year, but we’re just getting silly now). 

No,  I said this  could be a potential issue as a comment to @Mpoll report on the transfer of his LTR visa into his new passport; why did they have to record he arrived in Thailand in 2017 on an OA?

[Mike Teavee]

2 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

No,  I said this  could be a potential issue as a comment to @Mpoll report on the transfer of his LTR visa into his new passport; why did they have to record he arrived in Thailand in 2017 on an OA?

They need to copy over details of your last entry to Thailand So I’m guessing that was the Visa he last entered Thailand on & he has since got his LTR in-Country. 

 
If he did get his LTR outside of Thailand & entered on it (not picked it up in Bangkok) then the only reason I can think off why they would put details of his old Visa in his new Passport is the LTR is so new they’re still getting to grips with how to do things like transfer to a new Passport & are used to copying the old Non-IMM O/OA info across. 

[MPoll]

48 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

No,  I said this  could be a potential issue as a comment to @Mpoll report on the transfer of his LTR visa into his new passport; why did they have to record he arrived in Thailand in 2017 on an OA?

My thoughts were that they were recording my first visa entry into Thailand plus my first LTR permission to stay on my old passport. I think they are just historical notes. Who knows? I just wanted people to get a glimpse of what I got when switching to a new passport.

 

My last entry into Thailand on my OA was September 2019. I got my LTR stamped into my passport in Bangkok in January 2023. I made a trip to the US May/June this year on the LTR. Then I applied for my new passport and had the visa transferred.

Edited August 13, 2023 by MPoll

[Ben Zioner]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

They need to copy over details of your last entry to Thailand So I’m guessing that was the Visa he last entered Thailand on & he has since got his LTR in-Country. 

What for? That is the question. 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

What for? That is the question. 

Who knows why Immigration do 1/2 the things they do

 

Really bugs me when I do my extension & get a multi re-entry permit at the same time, Extension goes in, uses 1/2 a page of my passport, then gets stamped over & the MRP goes in & another 1/2 page of my passport is used ????   

 

@MPollmust be one of (if not the) 1st people to move an LTR to a new Passport so it wouldn't surprise me if Immigration aren't moving the Non-IMM O/OA Visa automatically & then adding on the LTR. 

 

 

[BritTim]

6 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Anyways this discussion is mute as the question was something like “What would happen if I no longer met the Criteria when applying for my 2nd 5 year Visa, would I revert to my Non-IMM OA” & the answer is NO because that Visa would be gone (should be gone when you get the LTR but would certainly be gone after 12 months… Unless you have 2 passports & extend it each year, but we’re just getting silly now). 

I 100% agree with your analysis. Also, in the highly hypothetical case where you no longer qualify for the continuation of your LTR at the end of five years, I am pretty sure your existing permission to stay would be considered as originating from a Non Immigrant visa. You would be able to apply for a one-year extension of your permission to stay based on retirement. Exactly what immigration would require in terms of money in the bank, monthly transfers and insurance is very murky, and I will not go there.

[JimGant]

7 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

If he did get his LTR outside of Thailand & entered on it (not picked it up in Bangkok) then the only reason I can think off why they would put details of his old Visa in his new Passport........

As reported here a few days ago, if he got his LTR at an Embassy/Consulate -- he'd never would of had to go to Bangkok/BoI/OSS with his new passport. Instead, the instructions for folks getting their LTR visa via sticker or eVisa is: When you get a new passport, just carry your old (cancelled) passport, as the LTR sticker and LTR eVisa have NOT been cancelled along with your old passport; but the cancelled passport does have historical information that may be asked for by Immigration (doubtful) -- and, of course, that old passport contains your still valid 10 year LTR visa sticker.

 

Sadly, if they had thought things out before final implementation, they would not have put the phrase (I'll paraphrase): This visa remains valid only as long as the passport is valid. Without that phrase, those of us who got our LTR visa stamp at OSS could just carry our old cancelled passport, with a still valid LTR visa stamp -- and not have to visit OSS with our new passport (although you can, reportedly, do this with an agent). 

 

Anyway, as long as the BoI/OSS/Imm service remains as I and others experienced, a trip from Chiang Mai, with hotel, transportation, and meal hyper pampering -- would actually be a nice diversion from old age day-to-day syndrome.....

Edited August 13, 2023 by JimGant

[oldcpu]

On 8/9/2023 at 3:39 PM, MPoll said:

I got my OA in 2017. They added the health insurance requirement in 2019 and there was no grandfathering of previous OA visa holders. We suddenly got the new requirement no matter how long ago we got our OA. So my confidence in grandfathering is pretty low.

I think it depends on the Provincial Immigration office as to whether grandfathering for type-OA visa (for not needing medical insurance) is followed.

 

Phuket immigration does allow grandfathering ... and the details for such are noted on the "Phuket Immigration Volunteers" web page , where it notes:

....

"  From October 2020 an medical insurance is required for every retirement extension if it is based on a original Non-OA visa (Issued at the Thai Embassy in your home country) following the criteria explained below than it has to be shown and included in the extension based on retirement.
– If the Non-OA visa from your home country is issued In or BEFORE 2017 then the health insurance is NOT required for your extension.
– If the Non-OA visa from your home country is issued in 2018 or later but the last entry date is before 1 October 2019 then the health insurance is NOT required for your extension.
– If the Non-OA visa from your home country is issued in 2018 or later but the last entry date is AFTER 1 October 2019 then the health insurance is IS required for your extension. "

....

That is all a bit complex.

 

In my case, with a Type-OA visa issued in year 2018 in Germany, when I was in Phuket I was not grandfathered (due to my entry dates), so I was required to obtain health insurance from a Thai immigration approved Health insurance source.  My superior coverage with my European Health insurance (which was also heavily subsidized as part of my pension) was not accepted by Immigration, so for my 1st extension on my Type-OA visa I purchased inexpensive worthless insurance from the Thai branch of a Health Insurance company (as I was not yet allowed to go for an extension based on marriage to a Thai).  

 

A year later, for my next extension on my Type-OA, I was allowed to go for an extension based on marriage to a Thai (and I did not have to buy worthless 2nd insurance that year).   After going through all that, I switched to a Type-O visa (which does not require the Health Insurance proof).

 

But now with the LTR visa, I have switched again, now to that LTR Visa, and I simply 'self insured' myself by proving the equivalent of over $100K US$ in a bank account (somewhere in the world).

 

I think it would be a step forward if Immigration would follow the lead of the LTR visa and for Type-OA visa extensions accept $100K US$ (in a bank account anywhere in the world) as self health insurance. 

[ashkale]

For some of us annual reporting is approaching- my first time doing it- is it online/ similar to the 90day reporting?

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, ashkale said:

For some of us annual reporting is approaching- my first time doing it- is it online/ similar to the 90day reporting?

Must be done at Chamchuri, but can be done by a  third party.

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Must be done at Chamchuri, but can be done by a  third party.

What the reference/weblink for above guidance?  Is it from the BoI LTR website.....maybe an email response from BoI....etc?   Thanks.

 

Just as additional info/crossfeed on the BoI SMART visa (kinda like a sister visa to the LTR visa) website reporting in person, by designated person, "or by mail" is allowed for 1 year address SMART visa reporting.   Maybe by mail reporting is also allowed for the LTR visa.   And even the online 90 days reporting system has a block to check if you have a BoI related visa issued at BoI Chamburi Sq immigration.   Probably time for several of us LTR holder to ping BoI LTR about 1 year reporting.  I'm really surprised BoI hasn't put official guidance on their LTR website----or if it there I'm just not seeing it.

https://smart-visa.boi.go.th/smart/pages/how-to-manage.html

[Pib]

Where I mentioned possibly using the Immigration Bureau address reporting website and the block relating to BoI visa at Chamchuri Sq immigration, see below snapshots.   Does checking of that block if you have a BoI related visa, like say a BoI LTR or BoI SMART visa, end-up routing a 365 address report to BoI/Chamchuri Sq Immigration for processing?....I don't know. 

 

I have asked the question to BoI regarding LTR 365 day address reporting as to what methods are allowed?   Time will tell when and what the answer will be.  Other LTR visa holders should ping BoI also about what methods/ways are now allowed.   It would just seem it should be at least the same as the 3 ways as offered for SMART visa holders (in-person, designated person, or my mail)....and "maybe" also it can now even be done online using the Immigration Bureau address reporting website but updated guidance as to the various ways is lagging. 

 

 

 

 

 

[JackGats]

On 10/9/2022 at 5:20 PM, khunjeff said:

Actually, it's signed by an immigration officer ("Female Police Captain Rachanee Sukkasem").

 

I had trouble reading her handwriting, but after getting some assistance in decoding it, it basically says that you ("this alien") want to use an LTR visa, so she is noting for the record that she permitted your previous status to be cancelled. 

 

I guess that's their way of dealing with the fact that normally you can't switch to a new status unless the previous one was either officially cancelled or expired, but a handwritten scrawl in ballpoint pen doesn't seem like the most professional way of recording that. 

So that handwritten line is the famous cancellation of your existing visa by the OSS (instead as by the issuing Immigration as should be the case in circumstances other than the LTR).

[Pib]

On 10/9/2022 at 5:20 PM, khunjeff said:

Actually, it's signed by an immigration officer ("Female Police Captain Rachanee Sukkasem").

 

I had trouble reading her handwriting, but after getting some assistance in decoding it, it basically says that you ("this alien") want to use an LTR visa, so she is noting for the record that she permitted your previous status to be cancelled. 

 

I guess that's their way of dealing with the fact that normally you can't switch to a new status unless the previous one was either officially cancelled or expired, but a handwritten scrawl in ballpoint pen doesn't seem like the most professional way of recording that. 

I expect a similar explanation is entered in a person's record in the Immigration's IT system.   A record that would also show your previous visas, extensions, passports, etc....just everything "data-wise" that  Immigration keeps regarding your stay in Thailand and activity at immigration offices, air/land entries, etc.  

[Pib]

On 8/24/2023 at 9:49 AM, Ben Zioner said:

Must be done at Chamchuri, but can be done by a  third party.

 

I also contacted BoI yesterday & today regarding the 365 day address reporting (had several back and forth emails with them...got responses within minutes to hours....very responsive....one of those emails is partially quoted below).  That email was "almost" identical to the response Ben Zioner got above....that a LTR holder must accomplish the report in-person or by an authorized person reporting on the behalf of the LTR holder.   However the response I got was to use the TM95 vs TM91 form...more on that talked below.

 

In additional back-an-forth clarification emails BoI said reporting "by mail" for LTR holders is currently not authorized as it's authorized for SMART visa holders.  And the Immigration Bureau Online reporting method is not authorized although the system does makes mention/has a area indicating certain BoI visa types that is for BoI "investment" type visas which apparently must report every 90 days vs the 365 days for LTR/SMART visa holders. 

 

However, the TM91 form mentioned in the BoI response Ben Zioner quoted above is for a SMART visa; not for a LTR visa. The correct form to use is the TM95 which is for the LTR visa which the BoI response below included.  The TM61 form is a Thai language only form (Google Lens and Translate are challenged to translate some parts of it).   Both the TM95 and TM61 forms are attached.

 

Summary: at this time, only in-person or by designated person 365 day address reporting is authorized.   That's not a good thing if you live a distance from Bangkok...or even if you do live in Bangkok and would prefer to report by mail or online.  I sure hope BoI soon authorizes reporting by mail...and hopefully LTR visa holders will suggest such to BoI.    

 

Quote   For individuals holding LTR Visas and residing in Thailand continuously for over a year, it is mandatory to report their current address to the Immigration at the One Stop Service Center for Visa and Work Permit (OSS). This reporting can be accomplished either in person or by designating a representative to act on your behalf. The reporting obligation renews annually, commencing from the issuance date of your LTR Visa. You have a 15-day window prior to or 7 days after the date specified on your 1-year report notification card to complete this process. However, if you re-enter the Kingdom, the reporting deadline will be adjusted to 1 year from your most recent arrival date.   To fulfill this requirement, kindly submit the subsequent documents to the immigration authorities:   - **TM.95 Form**: Please ensure it is completely filled out and signed (Attached in this email) - **Passport** - **T.M. 6 Card**: Include your arrival and departure card if applicable - **1-Year Report Notification Card**: If provided   Additionally, if an authorized individual is reporting on behalf of a smart visa holder residing in Bangkok, please include: - **T.M. 61 Form**   Your cooperation in maintaining accurate and up-to-date records is highly appreciated. Should you have any inquiries or require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.    TM95 ตม.95.pdfTM61 Report_of_residence_TM61.pdf

[mudcat]

I am confused with the feedback received from BOI which appears to contradict the TM95 calling out annual reporting is to "AN IMMIGRATION OFFICER" with no restriction as to who or where:

 

Firstly: the header includes the space for the Immigration office where one chooses to report:

 

ที่ทำกำรตรวจคนเข้ำเมือง .............................................
Immigration Office

 

Secondly the notice at the end of the user section makes clear that:

 

หมายเหตุ คนต่ำงด้ำวต้องแจ้งต่อพนักงำนเจ้ำหน้ำที่ตรวจคนเข้ำเมืองทุกระยะ 1 ปี
NOTICE AN ALIEN MUST NOTIFY AN IMMIGRANTION OFFICER OF HIS/HER ADDRESS EVERY YEAR.

 

This is is confirmed as authoritative by it being included in:

Attachment to the Order of Immigration Bureau no. 150/2565 dated 22 August 2022.

 

Where is the authority given for the BOI to dictate that reports must be done in Bangkok's One Stop Service Center either in person or an agent (unclear if this can be anyone, or must be one of the BOI's designated agents) in contradiction to the TM95 and the Immigration Bureau no. 150/2565 which clearly allow any one to provide notice to their local immigration office?

 

 

[Pib]

@mudcat

I think you will find out at least for the address reporting it must be done at the person's "servicing/assigned" immigration office which is the Chamchuri Sq immigration office for various BoI visas such as LTR and SMART visas.  

 

The TM47 form for 90 day address reporting uses the same format (see image at bottom) of leaving the specific immigration office blank....just a case of a generic form being used vs having a separate form for the 100 or so immigration offices in Thailand.   

 

And if a person tries to do a 90 day report at any immigration office other than his servicing immigration he will be told to go to his servicing immigration office.   When I was still on a Non OA visa I was personally told that right to my face two times back when I tried at two different immigration offices close to me (Nanthaburi and Nakhon Pathom offices) vs my servicing/assigned immigration office of CW since I live in Bangkok.  One of these times was back in in late 2011 during the Big Flood when much of the country was flooded to include Bangkok and I tried to report at the Nakorn Pathom office who turned me away...told me no-can-accept a 90 day report from me....told me to mail-in my report to CW.....and of course mail service was severely impact due to the flooding....but I did mail it in and got new 90 day receipt back in about a month.  And the Nanthaburi office (which is only 10 minutes from my Bangkok home...much closer than CW in north Bangkok) simply said no....I must report to CW since I live in Bangkok.

 

One downside of BoI type visas is it locks you into accomplishing certain visa management related activities only at the Chamchuri Sq office like the address reporting at this point in time.   Buy hey, same thing applies of being locked into a certain office if having a 1 year type visa where you get locked into using your servicing immigration office.  

 

And sometimes I wonder if a person needed a certificate of residence like to renew their drivers license or buy/sell a vehicle if they could get such at their "closest" immigration office or would that closest immigration office refer the person to their servicing immigration.....I don't know.    For me it's not a biggie since I live in Bangkok and can get to Chamchuri Sq within 30 minutes...but if I didn't live in/close to Bangkok getting locked into having to only use the Chamchuri Sq immigration office could be painful.   Hopefully more LTR holders will raise this 365 day address reporting issue to BoI for resolution....a better/easier way for LTR holders such as at least allowing a mail-in option like BoI allows for the SMART visa.  Squeaky wheel gets the oil.

 

 

 

[mudcat]

Well thank goodness we are heading back to the Bay Area next week for a month that takes care of this year to give BOI a chance to re-consider their demand that people from all over Thailand traipse to Bangkok to submit a few sheets of paper.

If they refuse, we live 2-hours from a Cambodian border crossing - the idea of a trip to Bangkok is burdensome for a immigration program that was supposed to make living as a retiree easier.

[OneZero]

13 minutes ago, mudcat said:

Well thank goodness we are heading back to the Bay Area next week for a month that takes care of this year to give BOI a chance to re-consider their demand that people from all over Thailand traipse to Bangkok to submit a few sheets of paper.

If they refuse, we live 2-hours from a Cambodian border crossing - the idea of a trip to Bangkok is burdensome for a immigration program that was supposed to make living as a retiree easier.

Exactly, quote " the idea of a trip to Bangkok is burdensome for a immigration program that was supposed to make living as a retiree easier."

[oldcpu]

On 7/14/2023 at 1:01 AM, JackGats said:

Lol, I also have a one-page form I can download and yes, it has a starting date but next to "end date" there's a blank.

I am curious if you had any success with your Cigna Health insurance for the LTR visa?  

 

Today I went to the Cigna site and printed out the latest certificate, so I have proof of my Health Insurance during some upcoming travel where one of the countries that I am passing through may ask for Health Insurance proof.  

 

I noted in the small print of the one-page Cigna form, that it has the date in which the print out was produced (ie today's date) and then further in the small print it states the form is valid for only one month !   As you known the "end date" of Health Insurance coverage in the one page form is blank, but the small print does clearly state that the form itself is only valid for one month after its print date.

 

That makes me very suspicious that BoI won't accept that form for Health Insurance proof for the 5-year permission to stay in a 10 year LTR visa.

[JackGats]

5 hours ago, oldcpu said:

I am curious if you had any success with your Cigna Health insurance for the LTR visa?  

 

Today I went to the Cigna site and printed out the latest certificate, so I have proof of my Health Insurance during some upcoming travel where one of the countries that I am passing through may ask for Health Insurance proof.  

 

I noted in the small print of the one-page Cigna form, that it has the date in which the print out was produced (ie today's date) and then further in the small print it states the form is valid for only one month !   As you known the "end date" of Health Insurance coverage in the one page form is blank, but the small print does clearly state that the form itself is only valid for one month after its print date.

 

That makes me very suspicious that BoI won't accept that form for Health Insurance proof for the 5-year permission to stay in a 10 year LTR visa.

I asked for the part where it says the form is only valid 1 month to be rephrased to something less ominous. I asked for explicit mention that I was covered for life. The certificate also said I was covered for no less than 50k.

 

So the standard form as it stands will probably not do.