LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Pib]

47 minutes ago, HerewardtheWake said:

... does this sentence mean that no health insurance policy is needed once you get the LTR visa? Thanks.

 

Health insurance or self-insure is required.  The health insurance policy can be foreign or Thai.   And where it talks valid "social security" coverage they mean Thai social security medical coverage.   See below quotes/snapshots from the BoI LTR website.  

 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/index.html

 

 

Quote

2.2.3 Provide a health insurance policy covering medical expenses in Thailand of at least USD 50,000 with a remaining coverage period of at least 10 months as of the date of the letter of qualification endorsement issuance; or evidence of social security benefits insuring medical expenses in Thailand, or a deposit balance of at least USD 100,000 in a bank account in Thailand or abroad retained for at least12 months as of thedateof application

 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, HerewardtheWake said:

Jim, does this sentence mean that no health insurance policy is needed once you get the LTR visa? Thanks.

Well, at least with the LTR visa you can medically self-insure, with $100k in a liquid, non investment, account. In my situation, I have Tricare (based on my US military service), which BoI has realized has a very substantial coverage, that meets all their requirements. Either way, LTR wants you to be insured -- but is flexible, and realistic.

 

Now, on my now-elapsed retirement extension off of a Non Imm O-A visa .. I was required to have one of 12 (maybe it's 14) Thai medical insurance policies. This is a complete scam, hosted by these Thai insurance companies. My LMG policy has a 1 million baht deductible, per procedure! Is anybody realistically covered under this scheme? And the annual premium is 69,000 baht (and this is the cheapest of the 12 (14) Thai insurance companies).

 

So, the LTR visa allows me to cut loose from the Thai insurance mafia. This would never happen while I was on a Non Imm O-A retirement extension -- just too much gravy for the insurance mafia -- and their government co-conspirators.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by JimGant

[OneZero]

15 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Well, at least with the LTR visa you can medically self-insure, with $100k in a liquid, non investment, account. In my situation, I have Tricare (based on my US military service), which BoI has realized has a very substantial coverage, that meets all their requirements. Either way, LTR wants you to be insured -- but is flexible, and realistic.

 

Now, on my now-elapsed retirement extension off of a Non Imm O-A visa .. I was required to have one of 12 (maybe it's 14) Thai medical insurance policies. This is a complete scam, hosted by these Thai insurance companies. My LMG policy has a 1 million baht deductible, per procedure! Is anybody realistically covered under this scheme? And the annual premium is 69,000 baht (and this is the cheapest of the 12 (14) Thai insurance companies).

 

So, the LTR visa allows me to cut loose from the Thai insurance mafia. This would never happen while I was on a Non Imm O-A retirement extension -- just too much gravy for the insurance mafia -- and their government co-conspirators.

 

 

 

 

In order to rid yourself of that "insurance mafia" why did you not just discuss with Immigration converting from that Non Imm "O-A" Visa to a Non Imm "O" visa" a long time ago?

[JackGats]

6 hours ago, Pib said:

Health insurance or self-insure is required.  The health insurance policy can be foreign or Thai.   And where it talks valid "social security" coverage they mean Thai social security medical coverage.   See below quotes/snapshots from the BoI LTR website.  

 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/index.html

 

 

 

 

 

So that's what this enigmatic sentence mean (point 2 B.)? I wondered how "benefits" could be an alternative to insurance. Benefits are revenue, insurance is an entitlement.

 

Why didn't they write "Thai social security coverage"?

 

 

[JimGant]

12 hours ago, OneZero said:

In order to rid yourself of that "insurance mafia" why did you not just discuss with Immigration converting from that Non Imm "O-A" Visa to a Non Imm "O" visa" a long time ago?

The only way to kill the O-A is to border hop, without a re-entry permit, and re-enter visa exempt, then apply for a Non Imm O. Or, alternatively, go to a Thai consulate abroad and get a Non Imm O "retirement" visa. I had planned to do this with Saigon, then Covid hit. When this option allowed itself again, the LTR option showed up.

[OneZero]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

The only way to kill the O-A is to border hop, without a re-entry permit, and re-enter visa exempt, then apply for a Non Imm O. Or, alternatively, go to a Thai consulate abroad and get a Non Imm O "retirement" visa. I had planned to do this with Saigon, then Covid hit. When this option allowed itself again, the LTR option showed up.

Oh ok.  I thought I had talked to one person in Pattaya that just arranged it all with Jomtien immigration.  Perhaps he used a visa agency.

 

[JimGant]

21 minutes ago, OneZero said:

Perhaps he used a visa agency.

That would be a new wrinkle, because several of us explored the use of agents to make the insurance requirement disappear -- and came up empty.

[BritTim]

26 minutes ago, OneZero said:

Oh ok.  I thought I had talked to one person in Pattaya that just arranged it all with Jomtien immigration.  Perhaps he used a visa agency.

It would be interesting to know how it could be arranged by an agent. In theory, switching from a Non O-A entry to a Non O entry without a border bounce should be completely impossible, regardless of the seniority of the officials the agent liaises with. If the process involves a simulated border bounce without the passport holder accompanying his passport on the journey, I would recommend staying away from it.

[Pib]

I would think switching from one type of visa to another within Thailand like from a OA to an O without a border hop is definitely doable "when Immigration regulations/policies allow it" but I don't know of any that allow it. 

 

Like folks switching from an OA/O/B/etc., type visa to an LTR visa.....the BoI Immigration Office does it with just a few pieces of paper/keystrokes in just a few minutes just before inking the LTR visa into your passport.   But the LTR visa program is a special program with rules/policies completely different from other types of visas.  

 

Now where a poster said he though the had talked to a person who switched from an OA to O at Jomtien without doing a border hop perhaps using an agent, well, that statement is basically hearsay, leaves out a lot of details, etc.   But if it did occur via agent, I bet it included a border hop without reentry permit probably to Cambodia to kill-off the current visa....and maybe the agent physically did the border hop vs the person by paying-off the Cambodian and Thai border immigration officers.  I realize that supposedly such agent accomplished border hops occurred years ago but was supposedly shutdown years ago...now illegal.   Or maybe the person did use an agent but it included the person doing a one day border hop courtesy an agent van run which the person failed to mention. 

 

I just know I don't remember seeing any AseanNow posts where anyone said they switched from an OA to O visa without killing off the OA visa first typically via a border hop to get a Non O visa at an embassy or coming back to start the in-Thailand Visa Exempt to Non O application process.  Now maybe there have been some credible posts as I definitely don't read all (or anything quantity remotely close) to all the visa/extension related posts on AseanNow.

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Pib

[Pib]

10 hours ago, JackGats said:

So that's what this enigmatic sentence mean (point 2 B.)? I wondered how "benefits" could be an alternative to insurance. Benefits are revenue, insurance is an entitlement.

 

Why didn't they write "Thai social security coverage"?

 

 

The 2B sentence relates to "hospitalization and treatment in Thailand" benefits....that is, medical benefits provided under a social security plan and not other type of social security benefits like pension.

 

Now although I said "Thai" social security benefits in an earlier post I expect it could really be social security hospitalization coverage from a "foreign" social security plan that provides full medical coverage 24/7, 365 days a year in Thailand.  This is good as it provides medical coverage flexibility. 

 

However,  I do not know of any foreign country social security medical coverage plan that provides coverage in Thailand other than possibly some emergency, limited short term care in certain situations.  Now a U.S. government medical program like Tricare provides full 24/7, 365 days a year medical coverage worldwide...in any country.

 

Typically social security/universal health care type medical coverage like in the U.S. Medicare/Medicaid, U.K. NHS etc., do not provide routine health care coverage outside of that country with the exception of some emergency care up to a very limited amount of time like 60 days after leaving the country......with emergency care being something like broken bones, heart attack, etc.   Now for routine hospital and outpatient care in a foreign country the U.K. NHS does have receptacle health care agreements with some countries (Thailand not one of them AFAIK) for some "limited" 365 days a year care...but it supposedly comes with a lot of fine print as to the type of care.

 

The LTR requirements are written not only to address "initially" meeting LTR requirements but also to "maintain" LTR requirements.   Like a person may initially need to buy a commercial policy to initially qualify for an LTR visa but then starts working in Thailand were he receives Thai social security benefits/medical coverage which allows him to drop his commercial policy and just use this Thai social security medical coverage.

 

So, although the LTR social security medical coverage requirement does not say "Thai" SS med coverage in reality since other countries social security type medical coverage is basically limited to coverage within that country with the possible exception of certain short term emergency care in reality I expect only "Thai" SS med coverage would satisfy LTR requirements when it comes to social security medical coverage.

 

 

[Pib]

Regarding annual address reporting, before switching from my Non OA which required every 90 days address reporting to my LTR visa which requires 365 address I would use the Immigration online 90 address reporting system.   

 

Now the BoI LTR visa website still does not have specific guidance regarding annual address reporting but the BoI SMART visa website does have specific annual reporting guidance which identifies two ways: 1) by visiting the BoI Immigration at Chamchuri Square Bangkok or 2) by mail.  No mention of an online reporting capability.  All indications/feedback so far regarding the LTR annual reporting is it would mirror BoI SMART annual reporting....that is, do it in person at BoI Immmigration at Chomchuri Square or via mail to Chomchuri Sq Immigration Office.

 

However, while reading another AseanNow thread talking about 90 day address reporting the poster asked about an entry that talked BoI Visas at Chomchuri Square.   That caught my interest....I logged onto my 90 day address reporting account and sure enough there is now a block to click if you have a BoI type visa......before there was only one block of "Use Login Information."   And I check the 90 day address report VDO Guide and it only showed the Use Login Info block as I remembered from my 90 day address reporting days; the Visa BoI block was not shown in the guide which probably hasn't been updated since the this latest online reporting system began.

 

Now if you type to check/click the Visa BoI related block nothing happens...it's like its greyed out...but you can still check/click the Use Login Info block.   

 

I wonder if the BoI will soon be allowing online address reporting for BoI managed type visas like LTR and SMART since the online address reporting system now has a block for BoI visas although nothing happens when clicking it.  If so, the block is probably geared to route BoI visas to Chomchuri Sq Immigration Office.   

 

 

 

 

 

[Misty]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Like folks switching from an OA/O/B/etc., type visa to an LTR visa.....the BoI Immigration Office does it with just a few pieces of paper/keystrokes in just a few minutes just before inking the LTR visa into your passport.   But the LTR visa program is a special program with rules/policies completely different from other types of visas.  

 

Yes, I've also been told by law firms that the BOI has "magical powers" : )

[JackGats]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

The 2B sentence relates to "hospitalization and treatment in Thailand" benefits....that is, medical benefits provided under a social security plan and not other type of social security benefits like pension.

 

Now although I said "Thai" social security benefits in an earlier post I expect it could really be social security hospitalization coverage from a "foreign" social security plan that provides full medical coverage 24/7, 365 days a year in Thailand.  This is good as it provides medical coverage flexibility. 

 

However,  I do not know of any foreign country social security medical coverage plan that provides coverage in Thailand other than possibly some emergency, limited short term care in certain situations.  Now a U.S. government medical program like Tricare provides full 24/7, 365 days a year medical coverage worldwide...in any country.

 

Typically social security/universal health care type medical coverage like in the U.S. Medicare/Medicaid, U.K. NHS etc., do not provide routine health care coverage outside of that country with the exception of some emergency care up to a very limited amount of time like 60 days after leaving the country......with emergency care being something like broken bones, heart attack, etc.   Now for routine hospital and outpatient care in a foreign country the U.K. NHS does have receptacle health care agreements with some countries (Thailand not one of them AFAIK) for some "limited" 365 days a year care...but it supposedly comes with a lot of fine print as to the type of care.

 

The LTR requirements are written not only to address "initially" meeting LTR requirements but also to "maintain" LTR requirements.   Like a person may initially need to buy a commercial policy to initially qualify for an LTR visa but then starts working in Thailand were he receives Thai social security benefits/medical coverage which allows him to drop his commercial policy and just use this Thai social security medical coverage.

 

So, although the LTR social security medical coverage requirement does not say "Thai" SS med coverage in reality since other countries social security type medical coverage is basically limited to coverage within that country with the possible exception of certain short term emergency care in reality I expect only "Thai" SS med coverage would satisfy LTR requirements when it comes to social security medical coverage.

 

 

I see. "Social security" here means a government health insurance scheme. Strange isn't it to distinguish between government insurance and private health insurance. What difference does it make? It comes down to what the insurance policy says, ie coverage in Thailand or not.

 

Also, point A insists on "50 thousand USD" and point B doesn't. So if you are covered by a government "social security" scheme, the 50k USD become irrelevant?

 

I have Cigna world-wide coverage but I'm not sure Cigna will accept to print the magic figure of 50k USD on their certificate. Committing themselves to paying out a lump-sum jackpot to any Thai hospital where an accident happens to land a patient is not the way health insurances work. Following a bad accident or some cancer, I may end up costing my health insurance hundreds of thousands a year. On the other hand if I crash on my motorbike without a valid driving licence or if I treat myself to a stroke by smoking meth, my insurance will not pay a penny.

 

Incidentally, whatever certificate I get from my health insurance, should I file it first on its own and see what happens, or should I go double-barrel and file the self-insurance 100k statement of accounts at the same time? I think it's possible to click both options at the same time on the form. The statements of account will cost me some money as they are not in English and will need to get translated.

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

Now a U.S. government medical program like Tricare provides full 24/7, 365 days a year medical coverage worldwide...in any country.

 It is worth noting that the excellent Tricare coverage, following a lot of discussion, has now been accepted as meeting the required medical insurance for LTR visa applications. It has never so far been accepted by Thai Immigration for Non O-A or Non O-X visas.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, JackGats said:

I see. "Social security" here means a government health insurance scheme. Strange isn't it to distinguish between government insurance and private health insurance. What difference does it make? It comes down to what the insurance policy says, ie coverage in Thailand or not.

 

Also, point A insists on "50 thousand USD" and point B doesn't. So if you are covered by a government "social security" scheme, the 50k USD become irrelevant?

 

I have Cigna world-wide coverage but I'm not sure Cigna will accept to print the magic figure of 50k USD on their certificate. Committing themselves to paying out a lump-sum jackpot to any Thai hospital where an accident happens to land a patient is not the way health insurances work. Following a bad accident or some cancer, I may end up costing my health insurance hundreds of thousands a year. On the other hand if I crash on my motorbike without a valid driving licence or if I treat myself to a stroke by smoking meth, my insurance will not pay a penny.

 

Incidentally, whatever certificate I get from my health insurance, should I file it first on its own and see what happens, or should I go double-barrel and file the self-insurance 100k statement of accounts at the same time? I think it's possible to click both options at the same time on the form. The statements of account will cost me some money as they are not in English and will need to get translated.

When it comes to coverage limits under a government plan compared to private health insurance, govt medical coverage generally does not deal in monetary limits like how most private insurance polices do by specifically stating a ;monetary limit per coverage period...like having a policy that provides $100K USD coverage per year....anything over that then you are just out of luck..

 

And generally govt coverage does not come with a "policy" for each individual full of lawyer talk defining limits of coverage but instead just an enrollment card/benefit letter that the refers you to a website where more details of coverage is provided....and even at that website which you could read for days and days it probably will not talk about limits per disability but how much a person's cost share/reimbursement level would be, maybe how many days of hospitalization allowed per year,  etc....but usually the govt coverage is "very generous."   

 

Govt plans may talk little to nothing about a maximum coverage amount since they may not have a limit where private plan generally talk monetary limits a lot.  Plus there are "many" private plans available usually driven by max coverage amount and premium the person is willing to pay.....barebones type coverage with low annual coverage to platinum type plans which have pretty much unlimited awesome coverage (and usually a premium that is very high).   And then there are also "group-type" plans that are co-sponsored/paid by a current/former employer.

 

BoI is aware how govt, group, and private medical plans differ in how the plans state coverage but for those plans that generally deal in "monetary" coverage limits like say $100K or $1M per year you will need something that shows what the coverage amount is.   It may not necessarily need to be shown on the policy you get if you can show other docs from the insurance company that defines the limit like maybe below Cigna Comparison sheet.  A lot depends on how your private insurance policy is worded.  You may need to help BoI understand your policy by providing additional policy related docs.

 

Regarding should you provide insurance policy "and" self insure docs from the get-go personally I would "not" double barrel it like that.  If you really want to qualify under say your insurance policy because you know you will have that policy for a long time even if not applying for a LTR visa the only way to determine if it satisfies BoI is to initially go with that one-barrel....call that Plan A.    If BoI does not accept Plan A then go the self-insure route (Plan B) which maybe you really would prefer not to do unless necessary.   If you go with Plan A and B at the same time and BoI approves your application you will not know if it was Plan A that qualified, maybe Plan A didn't but Plan B did, or maybe Plan B didn't but Plan A did.  You just will not know which plan (or both plans) qualified.  You might have fired the Plan B barrel when only the Plan A barrel was needed, etc.   And of course document translation costs might be player in your decision also.   

 

Yea, if a person has an insurance policy they will have for many years to come come rain or shine I would want to know if it meets the BoI LTR requirement and the only way to find out for sure is to initially apply just using that policy.   

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

 

[JackGats]

7 hours ago, Pib said:

When it comes to coverage limits under a government plan compared to private health insurance, govt medical coverage generally does not deal in monetary limits like how most private insurance polices do by specifically stating a ;monetary limit per coverage period...like having a policy that provides $100K USD coverage per year....anything over that then you are just out of luck..

 

And generally govt coverage does not come with a "policy" for each individual full of lawyer talk defining limits of coverage but instead just an enrollment card/benefit letter that the refers you to a website where more details of coverage is provided....and even at that website which you could read for days and days it probably will not talk about limits per disability but how much a person's cost share/reimbursement level would be, maybe how many days of hospitalization allowed per year,  etc....but usually the govt coverage is "very generous."   

 

....

 

 

 

 

 

I now realise my Cigna plan works like a "government" plan and not like a private insurance. The "policy" (contract) is with the entity paying my pension, not with me. Premiums get deducted each month from my pension. In fact it's the same health insurance I had during my working years and premiums are partly paid by my ex-employer. And indeed, it has a website with a thick PDF entitled "guide to cover". I'll file this guide with my application.

 

The plan also has a clause saying anything I pay out of my own pocket - because of ceilings pertaining to some kinds of treatments - in excess of a certain percentage of my monthly pension, gets reimbursed. This clause is a bit hard to get one's head around, but I hope the BOI will have the patience to do so. It basically implies that in a single year, I never pay more than about 3000 USD out of my own pocket for medical treatment, come what may.

 

I think it's better if I click point B (valid social security benefits), otherwise the BOI may want to make a beeline for the magic 50k USD figure and they will find it nowhere.

[Lost Nomad]

Do we have any US government civilian retirees that have been able to use their FEHB insurance for the LTR visa?  It has unlimited worldwide coverage similar to Tricare and direct billing arrangements with hospitals in Thailand.

 

I'm crossing my fingers for JackGats' strategy of using the option B social security benefits approach to meeting the requirement.

[Ben Zioner]

9 hours ago, JackGats said:

I now realise my Cigna plan works like a "government" plan and not like a private insurance. The "policy" (contract) is with the entity paying my pension, not with me. Premiums get deducted each month from my pension. In fact it's the same health insurance I had during my working years and premiums are partly paid by my ex-employer. And indeed, it has a website with a thick PDF entitled "guide to cover". I'll file this guide with my application.

 

The plan also has a clause saying anything I pay out of my own pocket - because of ceilings pertaining to some kinds of treatments - in excess of a certain percentage of my monthly pension, gets reimbursed. This clause is a bit hard to get one's head around, but I hope the BOI will have the patience to do so. It basically implies that in a single year, I never pay more than about 3000 USD out of my own pocket for medical treatment, come what may.

 

I think it's better if I click point B (valid social security benefits), otherwise the BOI may want to make a beeline for the magic 50k USD figure and they will find it nowhere.

Jack, many of our colleagues have used their CIGNA plans to get their LTR visa. Why don't you contact FAFICS and/or send an email to the member who represents non Thais.

 

FAFICS

 

 

[Pib]

10 hours ago, JackGats said:

I now realise my Cigna plan works like a "government" plan and not like a private insurance. The "policy" (contract) is with the entity paying my pension, not with me. Premiums get deducted each month from my pension. In fact it's the same health insurance I had during my working years and premiums are partly paid by my ex-employer. And indeed, it has a website with a thick PDF entitled "guide to cover". I'll file this guide with my application.

 

The plan also has a clause saying anything I pay out of my own pocket - because of ceilings pertaining to some kinds of treatments - in excess of a certain percentage of my monthly pension, gets reimbursed. This clause is a bit hard to get one's head around, but I hope the BOI will have the patience to do so. It basically implies that in a single year, I never pay more than about 3000 USD out of my own pocket for medical treatment, come what may.

 

I think it's better if I click point B (valid social security benefits), otherwise the BOI may want to make a beeline for the magic 50k USD figure and they will find it nowhere.

Your plan is not a social security plan; it's a current/former employer which happens to be U.S. govt agency...see quote below   "Social security" is more like U.S. Medicare (not accepted since it only for care within the U.S. except for some very limited emergency care situations when traveling outside the U.S.,  Thailand social security which any foreigner working in Thailand will probably have, etc.  
 

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-center/publications-forms/pamphlets/ri75-13.pdf

Quote

 

What is the Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHB) Program?

The FEHB Program is the largest employer-sponsored group health insurance program in the world, covering almost 9 million people including employees, annuitants, and their family members, as well as some former spouses and former employees. The FEHB Program offers fee-for-service plans, Health Maintenance Organizations (HMOs), and plans offering a Point of Service (POS) product.

 

Under FEHB a person has a choice of enrolling with one of dozens upon dozens of different insurance companies under contract with the U.S. govt Office of Personnel Management (OPM).  The govt pays part of the monthly premium (the bulk of it) and the beneficiary pays the remaining part....and how much the beneficiary premium is varies depending on what coverage level and coverage area that insurance company provides.  Preaching to the choir I know.

 

FEHB has plans which are limited to very specific areas within the U.S., other plans geared to those living outside the U.S., and some plans geared for worldwide coverage. And how each plan handles "out of network" coverage/payment will vary.  Probably best to have an FEHB plan that is geared to a person living outside the U.S. like which can be selected at this OPM/FEHB website:  https://www.opm.gov/healthcare-insurance/healthcare/plan-information/compare-plans/ which will even show "in-network" providers within Thailand.   If  you plan provides worldwide coverage then you are probably good to go.

 

During each annual FEHB open season when a person can change policies/insurance companies a person can receive a standardized brochure which details coverage....the 2nd link below gives an example....it basically like a policy.   And each year if the person don't want to change their current plan/insurance company they typically don't have to do anything and they automatically continue enrollment with their current plan, automatic premium payments continue, it's just pretty much on autopilot. 

 

Yea, the brochure probably will not talk $50K, $1M, etc., coverage limits like many private insurance policies and that's because they basically have no upper limit...kinda like unlimited coverage....the brochure will just detail a person's deductible, copay, annual catastrophic limit like maybe $3k, etc.  Very common for govt sponsored group plans like FEHB which provide excellent coverage. 

 

1. https://www.opm.gov/healthcare-insurance/healthcare/reference-materials/reference/forms-and-brochures/

2. https://www.carefirst.com/fedhmo/attachments/2023-opm-brochure.pdf

 

Basically what BoI would be looking for in such a policy that does not define upper coverage limits but just defines what the person's copay is were it says it provides coverage in Thailand/worldwide coverage......AND the policy end date has at least 10 months remaining on it OR if the policy does not state a "specific end date" like say 31 Dec 2023 some statement/verbiage in a FEHB/insurance doc that says annual re-enrollment is automatic unless the person disenrolls. 

 

There are some posts earlier in this long thread....I think in the Oct to Dec timeframe where applicants with a govt group type policy which didn't define a policy end date that the BoI just required some type of statement/document which said the annual re-enrollment is on autopilot and that's why not end is defined.   I think these were posts from U.S. State Dept retirees which had FEHB coverage.   Also some who had United Nations group sponsored health insurance.  Initially BoI was not accepting such policies but later started accepting them probably after finding out "many" applicants had such policies govt sponsor group policies (outstanding coverage) which can just look different from a typical private individual policy where the focus is on monetary limits per year/disability/incident.

 

BoI is aware of these type of policies BUT you should help BoI by pointing out in the coverage you are indeed currently enrolled via a benefit letter/cover sheet/coverage ID card/etc.,  annual reenrollment is on autopilot, and it provides coverage for medical treatment in Thailand. Including a one page cover memo where you explain the coverage a little can be very helpful to BoI. 

 

And note: a 1 year "Travel" Policy (which FEHB is definitely not) will not hack it as some people have tried using a Travel Policy which don't cover routine type medical care...it's more of a emergency/urgent care treatment policy  with lots of fine print/exclusions.

 

I expect FEHB coverage would be fine....others have gotten LTR visas using these types of govt-sponsored group policies.   I would think providing the coverage brochure, current enrollment letter/coverage ID card, etc., and a one page memo where you explain the coverage a little, how it's on automatic annual re-enrollment, it provides coverage in Thailand/worldwide, etc., will be acceptable to BoI.  

 

[Pib]

8 hours ago, Lost Nomad said:

Do we have any US government civilian retirees that have been able to use their FEHB insurance for the LTR visa?  It has unlimited worldwide coverage similar to Tricare and direct billing arrangements with hospitals in Thailand.

 

I'm crossing my fingers for JackGats' strategy of using the option B social security benefits approach to meeting the requirement.

Earlier in the l.....o.....n......g thread or similar LTR threads there are some posts where people did use such U.S. sponsored group policies like FEHB to qualify.  Initially the BoI was not accepting such excellent coverage policies since they looked different from a typical private individual insurance policies.  See my response post above to JackGats for more details.

[Pib]

On 7/10/2023 at 10:28 AM, Pib said:

The 2B sentence relates to "hospitalization and treatment in Thailand" benefits....that is, medical benefits provided under a social security plan and not other type of social security benefits like pension.

 

Now although I said "Thai" social security benefits in an earlier post I expect it could really be social security hospitalization coverage from a "foreign" social security plan that provides full medical coverage 24/7, 365 days a year in Thailand.  This is good as it provides medical coverage flexibility. 

 

However,  I do not know of any foreign country social security medical coverage plan that provides coverage in Thailand other than possibly some emergency, limited short term care in certain situations.  Now a U.S. government medical program like Tricare provides full 24/7, 365 days a year medical coverage worldwide...in any country.

 

Typically social security/universal health care type medical coverage like in the U.S. Medicare/Medicaid, U.K. NHS etc., do not provide routine health care coverage outside of that country with the exception of some emergency care up to a very limited amount of time like 60 days after leaving the country......with emergency care being something like broken bones, heart attack, etc.   Now for routine hospital and outpatient care in a foreign country the U.K. NHS does have receptacle health care agreements with some countries (Thailand not one of them AFAIK) for some "limited" 365 days a year care...but it supposedly comes with a lot of fine print as to the type of care.

 

The LTR requirements are written not only to address "initially" meeting LTR requirements but also to "maintain" LTR requirements.   Like a person may initially need to buy a commercial policy to initially qualify for an LTR visa but then starts working in Thailand were he receives Thai social security benefits/medical coverage which allows him to drop his commercial policy and just use this Thai social security medical coverage.

 

So, although the LTR social security medical coverage requirement does not say "Thai" SS med coverage in reality since other countries social security type medical coverage is basically limited to coverage within that country with the possible exception of certain short term emergency care in reality I expect only "Thai" SS med coverage would satisfy LTR requirements when it comes to social security medical coverage.

 

 

 

And just to add to my above post regarding social security medical coverage in Thailand.  I found an Oct 2022 email from BoI where they were responding to a question I asked of what did they really mean by:  "...social security benefits insuring treatment in Thailand...?"   BoI's response is partially quoted below....as you will see it's focused towards "Thailand" social security. 

 

 

Quote

 

Social security registration is mandatory for employees in Thailand under the labor law and allows employees to access to the social security benefits.

 

It is a fund providing security and coverage to insured individuals.

 

This one is mostly in Highly Skilled Professionals LTR visa because it is for foreigner working for company inside Thailand so they will receive the social security to ensure their safety while being the employee. 

 

We hope this helps clarify your query and please do not hesitate to contact us, shall you have any inquiries or clarification. We are much welcomed to assist you.

 

 

[Lost Nomad]

Pib,

    Thank you for your very detailed and helpful posts on FEHB.  To anyone that has gotten the BOI to accept FEHB, please DM me if you don't mind sharing specifics.  I will work on getting my FEHB paperwork in order and  am also going to allow for self-funding money to season as a backup.

 

 

[Pib]

12 hours ago, Lost Nomad said:

Pib,

    Thank you for your very detailed and helpful posts on FEHB.  To anyone that has gotten the BOI to accept FEHB, please DM me if you don't mind sharing specifics.  I will work on getting my FEHB paperwork in order and  am also going to allow for self-funding money to season as a backup.

Good luck on the application.  From one of your earlier posts in appears you have a FEHB "AFSPA" medical policy.   If so, their FEHB 2023 Medical Plan Brochure can be found here:

https://www.afspa.org/fsbp-forms-library/

https://www.afspa.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/2023-RI-72-001-FSBP-Brochure_FINAL.pdf

 

I see when quickly scan thru the brochure it provides coverage outside the U.S. and defines in Section 7 how a person can file a reimbursement claim and/or the medical provider to file the claim.   And in other places in the brochure it also talks out-of-network coverage which would include an overseas/non U.S. location.

 

I also appears a plan ID card is provided to you....maybe you get a new one each year in the mail...or maybe you get it online...be sure to include such in your LTR applicaiton. 

 

Now since the BoI general requirement is policy must have 10 months remaining on it upon LTR application they are flexible when it comes to polices that don't have end dates like a lot of government-sponsored medical plans which effectively have no end date....automatically renew each enrollment year as long as you are paying the monthly premium typically via automatic deduction from your monthly pension payment.....basically the plan continues until death due you part or you disenroll.   

 

If, repeat, if your plan does not reflect a specific annual end date be sure to include some kind of documentation explaining the reason for no specific end date like it's on auto enrollment....renewal is on autopilot.  And including a "one" page cover memo where you explain your policy just hitting on any key points like it's a U.S. govt sponsored plan which provides unlimited and worldwide coverage, annual automatic renewal, etc.   And be sure to define any acronyms you may use.   

 

And if BoI appears to reject the policy without giving any specific reason...asking you to upload a policy providing at least $50K coverage and having at least 10 month left on it (can make you think they didn't even read your first upload) then reupload the same policy but with a new one page memo stating you previously uploaded the policy and it still shows in your LTR online acct, explain once again info on the policy end date like if it's auto-reenrollment, has unlimited coverage, provides worldwide coverage, etc.  Sometimes basically resubmitting what you have already submitted passes on the 2nd BoI review. 

 

Good luck.

[oldcpu]

On 7/11/2023 at 12:11 AM, JackGats said:

I now realise my Cigna plan works like a "government" plan and not like a private insurance. The "policy" (contract) is with the entity paying my pension, not with me. Premiums get deducted each month from my pension. In fact it's the same health insurance I had during my working years and premiums are partly paid by my ex-employer. And indeed, it has a website with a thick PDF entitled "guide to cover". I'll file this guide with my application.

 

The plan also has a clause saying anything I pay out of my own pocket - because of ceilings pertaining to some kinds of treatments - in excess of a certain percentage of my monthly pension, gets reimbursed. This clause is a bit hard to get one's head around, but I hope the BOI will have the patience to do so. It basically implies that in a single year, I never pay more than about 3000 USD out of my own pocket for medical treatment, come what may.

 

I am most curious to read if you will be successful.

 

I also have Cigna insurance plan, where the entity (where I used to work) that is paying my pension also deducts premiums for Cigna insurance each month from my pension. 

 

Cigna's coverage clauses, as you note, are not structured in the manner in which BoI have specified they wish to see medical insurance covered.

 

I previous, for a Type-OA visa medical insurance coverage, attempted to get Cigna to write a letter stating they in essence met the Thailand Type-OA requirements. Cigna (Europe) flat refused (in fact, in my view, my global Cigna coveage exceeds BoI requiements - BUT one must read all the details of a very very large coverage document) . Cigna have a one page form on their web site one can download stating the coverage (with no expiry date) and to get the details of the coverage one has to read dozens of pages defining their coverage, which Thai immigration for the Type-OA visa obviously wouldn't do.   I even contacted the Thai branch of Cigna, told them of my European plan and asked if they would provide document necessary to satisfy Thai immigration for the Type-OA visa medical insurance proof. I offered to pay a nominal fee for that.  The Thai Cigna answer?  Go for DOUBLE insurance by buying an additional Thai Cigna Medical insurance (or dump my superior European Cigna coverage if I wanted only single coverage). Thai Cigna would not even look at the Europen Cigna coverage details.  

 

That is one reason why I ultimately went for the LTR visa (after briefly switching from a type-OA to a type-O visa and then to the LTR visa), where I could self insure (to BoI satisifaction) by showing I had > $100K US$ (equivalent) in the bank for the past 2 years.  Knowing the stubbornness of the European Cigna (and for that matter also the Thai Cigna branch) I decided trying to get something written in a form, from Cigna, to satisfy BoI was likely a hopeless task.

 

BUT if you succeed I would be most curious to learn, for in a bit less than 5 years I will need to again prove I have medical coverage (to extend my LTR visa permission to stay for another 5 years) and being able to use my European Cigna (instead of proving the $100K US equivalent (for 2 years) money in the bank) would be useful.

 

Please keep us advised - and very good luck and best wishes in your efforts.

Edited July 13, 2023 by oldcpu

[JackGats]

3 hours ago, oldcpu said:

I am most curious to read if you will be successful.

 

I also have Cigna insurance plan, where the entity (where I used to work) that is paying my pension also deducts premiums for Cigna insurance each month from my pension. 

 

Cigna's coverage clauses, as you note, are not structured in the manner in which BoI have specified they wish to see medical insurance covered.

 

...  Cigna have a one page form on their web site one can download stating the coverage (with no expiry date) ...

 

Please keep us advised - and very good luck and best wishes in your efforts.

Lol, I also have a one-page form I can download and yes, it has a starting date but next to "end date" there's a blank. That means of course that I am covered for life but I'd much rather this were spelled out rather than left for the Thais to guess what the blank stands for. The more I look at that blank the more it looks like there was an end date but I edited it out with a PDF editor, aaargh! This is just one example of the difficulties were are facing. I'll send the thick PDF "Guide to cover" to the BOI if I can upload it. If they take the time to peruse it surely they should realise this is about as good as health insurances can get.

[JackGats]

On 10/24/2022 at 5:07 AM, keemapoot said:

... My only option is to try to travel back to Thailand to do it at the BOI office, but even then, another poster said they will not schedule an appointment with you unless you can provide current visa details and are in Thailand. I may have to wait until the end of next year, because I only have a 2 month window based on my insurance renewal.

... and ARE in Thailand? If that's true you cannot schedule an appointment from abroad, then buy your ticket to Thailand? You need to buy your ticket, then schedule an appointment (send them the entry stamp on your passport?).

[JackGats]

Following up on my query above, I'm still puzzled by this:

 

In case the applicant choses to have LTR visa issued at One Stop Center for Visa and Work Permit (OSS) in Bangkok, the applicant will be required to update latest travel information and upload passport pages with all Thai stamps (The file must be scanned both left and right pages per one sheet AND ALL SHEETS MERGED IN ONE PDF FILE), particularly biodata page, current visa which has been cancelled with the remaining permission to stay sufficient to receive LTR Visa*, 

 

What is this "latest travel information"? I thought the scanning of the passport was done right at the beginning of the application, now they want it again. As I see it, if I choose the issue at One Stop Center, I have to travel to Thailand and re-scan my passport carrying the entry stamp AND the cancellation of the current visa.

 

I'm also puzzled by this:

4. If you wish to terminate your current visa or acquire TM.6 or TM.47 later but prior to LTR visa issuance at OSS, you can do so by uploading [Form]

 

Leaving aside the TM6 which no longer exists, why would I want to "acquire a TM47" prior to the LTR issuance? If I'm out of Thailand when I choose the One-Stop shop in Bangkok for visa issuance and I'm going to get the visa on my passport shortly after I enter Thailand again. I shall not wait for 90 days, in fact I can't because I need to go for my LTR stamp within 60 days.

 

 

[Pib]

48 minutes ago, JackGats said:

Following up on my query above, I'm still puzzled by this:

 

In case the applicant choses to have LTR visa issued at One Stop Center for Visa and Work Permit (OSS) in Bangkok, the applicant will be required to update latest travel information and upload passport pages with all Thai stamps (The file must be scanned both left and right pages per one sheet AND ALL SHEETS MERGED IN ONE PDF FILE), particularly biodata page, current visa which has been cancelled with the remaining permission to stay sufficient to receive LTR Visa*, 

 

What is this "latest travel information"? I thought the scanning of the passport was done right at the beginning of the application, now they want it again. As I see it, if I choose the issue at One Stop Center, I have to travel to Thailand and re-scan my passport carrying the entry stamp AND the cancellation of the current visa.

 

I'm also puzzled by this:

4. If you wish to terminate your current visa or acquire TM.6 or TM.47 later but prior to LTR visa issuance at OSS, you can do so by uploading [Form]

 

Leaving aside the TM6 which no longer exists, why would I want to "acquire a TM47" prior to the LTR issuance? If I'm out of Thailand when I choose the One-Stop shop in Bangkok for visa issuance and I'm going to get the visa on my passport shortly after I enter Thailand again. I shall not wait for 90 days, in fact I can't because I need to go for my LTR stamp within 60 days.

 

 

Between the time a person first submits their LTR application and when its approved, which could be anywhere from weeks to numerous months later, a person's immigration/passport records could have change significantly like getting another 1 year extension on their non immigrant visa, maybe even changed from say an extension based on retirement to marriage (or visa versa),  maybe even changed from say a Non OA visa to a Non B visa, processed one or more new 90 day repots...etc....etc.....etc....etc.   Lots of major or minor changes may have occurred....and what kind of and how many changes possibly occurred will vary from individual to individual.  

 

It's my understanding that it's the "Immigration Office" side of BoI that requires the LTR applicant to provide a new copy of their passport with all stamps and other various possible immigration related forms a person might have obtained/processed between the date he initially applied and just before the date the applicant is taking the final step to pay the LTR issue fee/have the LTR actually issued.   And immigration requires it in the format requested (one "continuous" PDF doc) versus several PDF uploads that people often upload when initially applying for an LTR. 

 

It just something you will have to do...plan on resubmitting your passport and possibly a few other forms like your latest TM47 90 day address report (if you have one), TM6 from last entry (in case one was issued like entering at a land checkpoint vs airport)....if you don't have any of these forms like because you haven't been required to submit a TM47 since you haven't started in Thailand 90 days yet then you just tell BoI such.   If your passport hasn't changed in anyway then you just upload it again in the one continuous doc format requested. 

 

As said, BoI wants to ensure they have the "latest" copy of your passport and some other forms before taking the final LTR steps.   

 

 

 

[JackGats]

I understand. So since I'm waiting outside Thailand for LTR approval I shall have to resubmit at least the page with the new Suvarnabhumi entry stamp.

 

I daren't opt for the stamping of the LTR at the Thai consulate in my "home" country lest said consulate raise the issue of territoriality and/or official residence. I am no longer a resident in my home country, just here visiting family.

Edited July 17, 2023 by JackGats

[BritTim]

35 minutes ago, JackGats said:

I understand. So since I'm waiting outside Thailand for LTR approval I shall have to resubmit at least the page with the new Suvarnabhumi entry stamp.

Unfortunately, it is my understanding that they want every page in your passport with Thai stamps, including those you have already provided to BOI.