Truss surges ahead, wins key backers in U.K. leadership race for prime minister

[CharlieH]

Reported post removed.

 

LAST TIME you are going to be told. If you cant play nicely you will BOTH enjoy a break from the forum.

[ivor bigun]

two reasons i would never vote for rishi ,one he cut the triple lock last year ,two he is a backstabbing snake ,who thought by doing it to Boris he would become prime minister .glad he will lose .

[Bluespunk]

Oops, looks like truss is being called out on her plans to avoid scrutiny of her tax cut blah blah blah policy...

 

''Mel Stride, the chair of the Commons Treasury committee, urged the government’s economic watchdog to produce forecasts alongside any emergency budget this autumn, after Truss indicated she would try to avoid early scrutiny of her plans.

The Conservative MP said the chancellor must ensure that the OBR provided its assessment at the same time as the new prime minister made any big fiscal decisions.''

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/23/rishi-sunak-attacks-liz-trusss-plans-to-curb-bank-of-englands-independence

 

#votetruss- the opposition's choice

[proton]

Truss will win, bit loose the next election. What have been her commitments to stop illegal immigrants arriving on boats daily?

[transam]

3 minutes ago, proton said:

Truss will win, bit loose the next election. What have been her commitments to stop illegal immigrants arriving on boats daily?

I think she's not the PM yet.....????

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Oops, looks like truss is being called out on her plans to avoid scrutiny of her tax cut blah blah blah policy...

 

''Mel Stride, the chair of the Commons Treasury committee, urged the government’s economic watchdog to produce forecasts alongside any emergency budget this autumn, after Truss indicated she would try to avoid early scrutiny of her plans.

The Conservative MP said the chancellor must ensure that the OBR provided its assessment at the same time as the new prime minister made any big fiscal decisions.''

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/23/rishi-sunak-attacks-liz-trusss-plans-to-curb-bank-of-englands-independence

 

#votetruss- the opposition's choice

She has now on a number of occasions revealed her intention to avoid scrutiny and transparency.

 

This, coupled with her ineptitude and propensity for gaffs will only make it more likely that people will suffer more from her fairytale economic policy ideas.

 

She clearly intends to do stupid stuff and can’t stand the idea of being held to scrutiny,

 

A truly 21st century Tory.

[Rimmer]

Some off topic baiting and bickering posts have been removed, Stop It and stay on topic please.

[bannork]

Gove and Parris telling it like it is.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11130565/Team-Truss-left-furious-Michael-Gove-dismissed-campaign-holiday-reality.html

[Bluespunk]

Looks like the division, back stabbing and internal fighting will continue after this disastrous leadership campaign. 
 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/24/rishi-sunak-hails-margaret-thatcher-influence-tory-leadership?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

#votetruss- the oppositions choice 

[Bluespunk]

Oh dear, another truss policy being exposed as ill thought through. 
 

No doubt a clarification being prepared…
 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/24/liz-truss-plan-to-divert-nhs-funds-to-social-care?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

#votetruss- promises, not substance. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Chomper Higgot]

5 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Oh dear, another truss policy being exposed as ill thought through. 
 

No doubt a clarification being prepared…
 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/24/liz-truss-plan-to-divert-nhs-funds-to-social-care?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

#votetruss- promises, not substance. 

She perhaps believes what was written on that fibster bus.

 

 

[JonnyF]

7 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Oh dear, another truss policy being exposed as ill thought through. 
 

No doubt a clarification being prepared…
 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/24/liz-truss-plan-to-divert-nhs-funds-to-social-care?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

#votetruss- promises, not substance. 

Actually he is saying it is a good idea but that the NHS needs more money as well. 

 

 

Unfortunately, the cost of lockdown crisis means there are not unlimited funds to be thrown around. This is a Conservative government, they cannot continue to spend and spend like some frivolous 2 bit Labour government. We need responsible fiscal policies to get out of the mess that lockdown has created.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Actually he is saying it is a good idea but that the NHS needs more money as well. 

 

 

Unfortunately, the cost of lockdown crisis means there are not unlimited funds to be thrown around. This is a Conservative government, they cannot continue to spend and spend like some frivolous 2 bit Labour government. We need responsible fiscal policies to get out of the mess that lockdown has created.

So we’re is the logic in Truss handing out tax cuts?

 

If the national finances are in such a mess, why the promise of tax cuts snd who will benefit most from those tax cuts?

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So we’re is the logic in Truss handing out tax cuts?

 

If the national finances are in such a mess, why the promise of tax cuts snd who will benefit most from those tax cuts?

Because tax cuts boost the economy by putting more money into circulation.

 

I'm guessing you favour the big state, borrow, tax and spend model so loved by the left and Corbynistas.

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Because tax cuts boost the economy by putting more money into circulation.

 

I'm guessing you favour the big state, borrow, tax and spend model so loved by the left and Corbynistas.

Oh, jam tomorrow, or maybe never.

 

I favour giving immediate help to those in need.

 

A real windfall tax on energy companies and help those who cannot afford to heat and eat.

 

What I don favour is tax handouts to corporations already making huge profits.

 

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Because tax cuts boost the economy by putting more money into circulation.

 

I'm guessing you favour the big state, borrow, tax and spend model so loved by the left and Corbynistas.

It depends on who those tax cuts go to. The less you earn, the more likely you are to spend whatever additional funds come your way. Economists call this "marginal propensity to spend". So if such a cut was targeted to those who earn less, it would have a far greater effect. Of course, for those who earn too little to be taxed, such as a married coupled who each earn less than  £12,570, there would be no benefit at all. Yet these are the people who need it the most.

[transam]

Boris's holiday time, Liz & rishi, take note.....????

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It depends on who those tax cuts go to. The less you earn, the more likely you are to spend whatever additional funds come your way. Economists call this "marginal propensity to spend". So if such a cut was targeted to those who earn less, it would have a far greater effect. Of course, for those who earn too little to be taxed, such as a married coupled who each earn less than  £12,570, there would be no benefit at all. Yet these are the people who need it the most.

Tax cuts also increase demand and drive up inflation.

 

Perhaps that’s the plan.

 

 

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Oh, jam tomorrow, or maybe never.

 

I favour giving immediate help to those in need.

 

A real windfall tax on energy companies and help those who cannot afford to heat and eat.

 

What I don favour is tax handouts to corporations already making huge profits.

 

You do live in a Capitalist country, ya know, but even the Commies are now turning to Capitalism to make a few quid ....????

[Bluespunk]

42 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Actually he is saying it is a good idea but that the NHS needs more money as well. 

 

 

Unfortunately, the cost of lockdown crisis means there are not unlimited funds to be thrown around. This is a Conservative government, they cannot continue to spend and spend like some frivolous 2 bit Labour government. We need responsible fiscal policies to get out of the mess that lockdown has created.

Here is a fuller account of what was said

 

"Richard Murray, the chief executive of the King’s Fund, a health thinktank, commended Truss for paying attention to social care, as he said a sustained lack of funding had left England with a system that was failing many people, but he said the NHS needed the funding as well.

“Liz Truss’s comments are welcome recognition that the lack of social care capacity has a knock-on impact on other health and care services, but it’s hard to see how the NHS could have this funding removed without it impacting the standards of care patients receive,” he said.

“The unfortunate reality for whoever takes over as prime minister is that robbing Peter to pay Paul is not a sustainable solution to the health and care crisis.”

 

Or: truss' plans are not a well thought out solution...quelle surprise. 

[JonnyF]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It depends on who those tax cuts go to. The less you earn, the more likely you are to spend whatever additional funds come your way. Economists call this "marginal propensity to spend". So if such a cut was targeted to those who earn less, it would have a far greater effect. Of course, for those who earn too little to be taxed, such as a married coupled who each earn less than  £12,570, there would be no benefit at all. Yet these are the people who need it the most.

I support low tax across the board.

 

Low tax for low/average earners encourages spending and drives the economy.

 

Low tax for corporations encourages investment within the country, re-investment of profits into businesses and increased job creation/lower unemployment.

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, transam said:

You do live in a Capitalist country, ya know, but even the Commies are now turning to Capitalism to make a few quid ....????

Another thread, another misinformed post.

 

The UK, subject nation of the thread, is a mixed economy with features of capitalism and socialism.

 

 

[JonnyF]

8 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Here is a fuller account of what was said

 

"Richard Murray, the chief executive of the King’s Fund, a health thinktank, commended Truss for paying attention to social care, as he said a sustained lack of funding had left England with a system that was failing many people, but he said the NHS needed the funding as well.

“Liz Truss’s comments are welcome recognition that the lack of social care capacity has a knock-on impact on other health and care services, but it’s hard to see how the NHS could have this funding removed without it impacting the standards of care patients receive,” he said.

“The unfortunate reality for whoever takes over as prime minister is that robbing Peter to pay Paul is not a sustainable solution to the health and care crisis.”

 

Or: truss' plans are not a well thought out solution...quelle surprise. 

Your summary of his comments is inaccurate.

 

What he is actually saying is correct. There is not enough money in the pot for everyone to get unlimited funds. People like me warned about the long term damage of lockdowns and now people like you are seeing it for yourself.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I support low tax across the board.

 

Low tax for low/average earners encourages spending and drives the economy.

 

Low tax for corporations encourages investment within the country, re-investment of profits into businesses and increased job creation/lower unemployment.

All well and good, but there are essential services to be paid for.

 

Right now, the NHS, Social Care, Social Services, Police, Fore and ambulance services, roads, schools, the environmental agency.

 

All floundering as a direct result of 12 years of underfunding.

[JonnyF]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

All well and good, but there are essential services to be paid for.

 

Right now, the NHS, Social Care, Social Services, Police, Fore and ambulance services, roads, schools, the environmental agency.

 

All floundering as a direct result of 12 years of underfunding.

It's too simplistic to blame it all on underfunding. Also it is completely partisan to suggest these issues were not present while Blair was in power - imagine if Blair had spent those billions investing in UK services instead of using it to murder people during his illegal war in the middle east.

 

The NHS and it's funds are chronically mismanaged. The Police are doing the macarena at LGBT marches while people are being knifed around the corner, or busy arresting people for 'non crime hate incidents' or offensive tweets. Many people on social benefits are frauds who are perfectly capable of working. Just a few examples.

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I support low tax across the board.

 

Low tax for low/average earners encourages spending and drives the economy.

 

Low tax for corporations encourages investment within the country, re-investment of profits into businesses and increased job creation/lower unemployment.

In the US the republican party has been pushing this nonsense for years. It didn't work for Reagan, not for Bush 2, and not for Trump. No evidence of an increase in economic growth. Just a way if making the wealthy and powerful even more wealthy and powerful. In fact the evidence is clear that too much cash has accummulated in the pockets of 2 few. Not so long ago, some governments were offering bonds with a negative interest rate. They had no problem finding takers. Even now, government bonds lag inflation rates. Yet no problem finding investors. 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It's too simplistic to blame it all on underfunding. Also it is completely partisan to suggest these issues were not present while Blair was in power - imagine if Blair had spent those billions investing in UK services instead of using it to murder people during his illegal war in the middle east.

 

The NHS and it's funds are chronically mismanaged. The Police are doing the macarena at LGBT marches while people are being knifed around the corner, or busy arresting people for 'non crime hate incidents' or offensive tweets. Many people on social benefits are frauds who are perfectly capable of working. Just a few examples.

A complete mischaracterization of reality.

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A complete mischaracterization of reality.

'You can't solve an underfunding crisis simply by throwing money at it...'

[JonnyF]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

In the US the republican party has been pushing this nonsense for years. It didn't work for Reagan, not for Bush 2, and not for Trump. No evidence of an increase in economic growth. Just a way if making the wealthy and powerful even more wealthy and powerful. In fact the evidence is clear that too much cash has accummulated in the pockets of 2 few. Not so long ago, some governments were offering bonds with a negative interest rate. They had no problem finding takers. Even now, government bonds lag inflation rates. Yet no problem finding investors. 

With the greatest respect, this thread is about Truss and the UK leadership race.

 

Not Reagan, Bush etc.

 

The US in the 80's and the UK in 2022 are 2 different beasts.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

With the greatest respect, this thread is about Truss and the UK leadership race.

 

Not Reagan, Bush etc.

 

The US in the 80's and the UK in 2022 are 2 different beasts.

You claimed that cutting taxes raises investments. I offered evidence of why that's not the case. 

 

But if it's UK centric evidence you want, here's some:

"Despite cutting the UK corporation tax rate by more than 10% in the past decade, Britain has not seen a significant improvement in growth, says The Wall Street Journal, citing figures from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development.

“British investment as a share of GDP is actually lower than before 2007 and productivity growth - the ultimate determinant of living standards and where higher investment should leave its mark - averaged 0.6% from 2010 to 2015,” the newspaper reports."

https://www.theweek.co.uk/89848/fact-check-the-truth-about-corporate-tax-cuts