Selfish and useless

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/4/2022 at 8:25 PM, pixelaoffy said:

Some interesting comments .some I expected . The farang brigade who trot out the same ' go to Singapore or your own country'  if you don't like "selfish and dangerous " behaviour and then those who understand that rules are generally there for a purpose. I dont expect anything to change in the mindset of the indigenous population . A country where me first is as prevalent as anywhere else and even more so because enforcement and punishment is practically zero .

No one is saying we should "like" selfish and dangerous behaviour, but it's not up to us to tell them how to live. We ain't colonialists, are we?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/4/2022 at 5:41 PM, GypsyT said:

But it's the price I'm willing to pay to be FREE of BS rules that has ruined other countries.

Agree 1,000,000 %

Western country I live in has a gazillion laws and regulations, but has a massive crime problem and I feel less safe here due to violent people than I ever did in LOS.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:18 AM, EVENKEEL said:

Personally I don't think it's a big deal about the parking. Walk the beach side and problem solved. But, I also understand we all have some pet peeves about how things operate here in Thailand. I know I dislike some petty things as well.

There were a thousand things I disliked about LOS, but there's no point complaining as it won't change anything, and living there was a million times better than any other country I've lived in.

Posters have been complaining about the same things on this forum ever since I joined it, but it hasn't changed things in LOS an iota.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 7/31/2022 at 10:17 PM, newnative said:

     It's the same thing on Pattaya Beach Road.  The city foolishly decided to allow parking on the beach side.   So, 3 lanes of traffic were reduced to 2 lanes.  But--surprise, surprise--people's behaviors did not change.  Drivers were used to stopping their vehicles in the left traffic lane and using it for parking as there were still 2 traffic lanes available.  So, delivery drivers parked in the traffic lane.  People running into 7-11 or other stores parked in the traffic lane.  Taxis waiting for customers, tour buses . . . 

      And, they still selfishly do--no change in behavior.  They'll park in the traffic lane even when a parking space is available a short distance away.  No, they must stop right in front of the store.  They cannot  walk any extra steps.   What was 3 lanes of traffic is often now at busy times down to just 1 lane--which often itself gets bogged down with drivers trying to parallel park or waiting for a car to leave on the beach side parking.  

LOL. Many was the time I wished the traffic in Pattaya was jammed for days, as it might have made them ban private cars and tour buses on the roads- the curse of Pattaya.

The roads were not built with the present traffic in mind- too many cars on roads that can't handle them, end of.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:19 AM, EVENKEEL said:

That's me to a tee. 

That was me too.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/3/2022 at 12:50 AM, richard_smith237 said:

Along with many, I like the freedom and lack of restrains we have in Thailand, however, description varies and this leads to the chaos of people doing what they want when they want, such as stopping on the road, abandoning the car and nipping out to 7-11... antisocial if you ask me and people do it all the time... why ?... they’re exercising their personal freedom....

Oh, you have described my living environment ( in a western country ) to a t. Place is full of <deleted><deleted> committing antisocial acts day and night and narry an official to prevent it.

Such may be the case in LOS too, but at least I enjoyed living there.

[pixelaoffy]

36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm sure that Thais are aware of all that, but if they CHOOSE not to do anything about it, it's not up to us aliens to demand they change.

If any farang is not prepared to accept LOS as it is, they know where the exit is.

We know your reaction in these dangerous matters. You can exit if nothing constructive to say 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 8/1/2022 at 12:32 PM, RichardColeman said:

I am quite sure the disabled and those pushing push-chairs would whole heartedly agree

Those using wheelchairs and baby push chairs are virtually invisible in Pattaya, so I fail to understand your point.

I never saw a Thai pushing a baby buggy unless they were with a farang husband. It's just not a Thai thing. As for wheelchairs, disabled Thais understand that Thai roads are not for them.

[pixelaoffy]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Those using wheelchairs and baby push chairs are virtually invisible in Pattaya, so I fail to understand your point.

I never saw a Thai pushing a baby buggy unless they were with a farang husband. It's just not a Thai thing. As for wheelchairs, disabled Thais understand that Thai roads are not for them.

Sums up a farang beach ***  ejected and now a tirade of BS. 

[newnative]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. Many was the time I wished the traffic in Pattaya was jammed for days, as it might have made them ban private cars and tour buses on the roads- the curse of Pattaya.

The roads were not built with the present traffic in mind- too many cars on roads that can't handle them, end of.

   So true.  And they refuse to eliminate parking on the major roads, which would instantly add another lane in each direction without any construction.  North Pattaya Road is a good example.  Large parts of it are already striped no parking but you have small stretches where parking is allowed.  So, cars will be driving in the no parking/parking here and there lane, come to 1 car parked blocking the lane, and then have to merge into the traffic lane, causing tie-ups and delays.  Just nuts, especially since the road is often grid-locked on weekends with all the cars going to the beach, T21, and all the big hotels in that area.   Bad now, and all the tour buses haven't even started up much yet.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, pixelaoffy said:

We know your reaction in these dangerous matters. You can exit if nothing constructive to say 

I'm boggled, as I thought I was offering constructive advice ie "if you don't like it you know where the exit is", but reading the same complaints for 14 years is quite boring so I'll make your wish come true.

Bye.

[pixelaoffy]

22 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm boggled, as I thought I was offering constructive advice ie "if you don't like it you know where the exit is", but reading the same complaints for 14 years is quite boring so I'll make your wish come true.

Bye.

Title of  posting thread could have been made for you 

[The Hammer2021]

On 8/2/2022 at 7:50 PM, richard_smith237 said:

I agree about the parking rules and profiteering from car owners in the UK... its ridiculous... 

 

However, the personal freedoms thing comes with consequences. 

 

I know its not always the same and each situation is individual and must be judged based on description and individual merit...  these ‘high standards of personal freedoms’ have consequences which you may not be able to foresee which is why there are ’standard laws’ in place.... 

 

 

My Thai friends grandmother was killed in a house fire, the fire engines couldn’t get to the house because of poor parking on the soi. 

 

I see women with children having to walk on the road to go around cars whose drivers exercise their ‘personal freedom’ to park where they wanted. 

 

Motorcyclists exercise their personal freedoms and ride down the pavement (sidewalk). 

 

Drivers exercise their personal freedom when choosing to drive home after a few too many.

 

There are lots of personal freedoms... and parking is at the light end of the spectrum which seems to matter little, yet there are still consequences... i.e. those who park at the corner of a junction, it may not seem a big deal, but that in itself can lead to an accident. 

 

In this case... Maybe parking on both sides of the road narrows the road for the passing cars such that they are forced to pass in closer proximity, risking an accident etc.

 

Along with many, I like the freedom and lack of restrains we have in Thailand, however, description varies and this leads to the chaos of people doing what they want when they want, such as stopping on the road, abandoning the car and nipping out to 7-11... antisocial if you ask me and people do it all the time... why ?... they’re exercising their personal freedom....

 

 

99% of parking infractions cause no harm. They are just irritants to the easily irritated. There is a group of people who live in a state of outrage, often they claim to be irritated and upset on 'behalf of others'. But I regard it as a state of neurosis- a border line mental ilness. The demonstration  of personal  freedom is more important and as we can see in Britain with obsessions with health and safety and the  rise  to power of petty jobsworths there is so much to lose. The principle problems the people here in Thailand have is political not personal. Outsiders who criticize the behaviour of Thais whilst ignoring the real problems and real issues deservedly get labelled harshly and perhaps should turn their moral spotlight on their own country. Riding on pavements and poor parking is preferable to regular  high school slaughter and mass murder.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I was happy about that. Meant I didn't get any tickets. Constantly checking speedo so as not to get a fine is a drag.

Pro’s and cons... the cons being more people are getting injured and dying because the police don’t enforce the laws... 

 

And... I get more tickets in Thailand than I ever did in the UK...  thinks such as going 123kmh on the expressway rated ro 120kmh, or crossing the solid white line at junction (when the line is very poorly placed etc)... 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No one is saying we should "like" selfish and dangerous behaviour, but it's not up to us to tell them how to live. We ain't colonialists, are we?

So are we not allowed an opinion ???.....    When I have discussions with my Thai friends there is an incredible amount of common ground on many of the issues we discuss on this forum. 

 

Thai’s have very much the same opinions and complaints we have....    

Edited August 10, 2022 by richard_smith237

[pixelaoffy]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

So are we not allowed an opinion ???.....    When I have discussions with my Thai friends there is an incredible amount of common ground on many of the issues we discuss on this forum. 

 

Thai’s have very much the same opinions and complaints we have....    

Difference is Thais have given up, or never even believe they can change anything 

[JimTripper]

That and a million other things...

 

If that kind of thing bothers you you may have chosen the wrong country to live in. I suspect your not a casual visitor since this sort of thing is just funny when your not here long term.

 

Why does it bother you, does everything need to be perfect?

 

Should it be done the way you think it should be, or have you considered that there's nowhere to park and it's necessary to get things done here, thus the police enforcement flexibility.

[The Hammer2021]

I find the title to this thread arrogant  and judgemental. Is the OP suggesting he is superior to the locals? Nobody  asked the OP to come and live here. If he doesn't like it here he should leave. Nobody likes whingers. I bet the OP can't afford  a truck  and doesn't have a family to  take to the beach. Never in thirty years here has it occurred to me top be outraged at parking! To actually write about it as a valid  complaint labelling men and a women as being selfish and useless might be considered a form of arrogance bordering mental illness.

[richard_smith237]

33 minutes ago, The Hammer2021 said:

I find the title to this thread arrogant  and judgemental. Is the OP suggesting he is superior to the locals? Nobody  asked the OP to come and live here. If he doesn't like it here he should leave. Nobody likes whingers. I bet the OP can't afford  a truck  and doesn't have a family to  take to the beach. Never in thirty years here has it occurred to me top be outraged at parking! To actually write about it as a valid  complaint labelling men and a women as being selfish and useless might be considered a form of arrogance bordering mental illness.

No body asked you to come on here and pass a comment.... So why is the Ops opinion or even judgement any less valid than your's ?

 

 

Regarding the title - Selfish....  that is a word that can readily describe the traffic conditions in Thailand. Many of the woes, the grildlock, the blocking entrances, not stopping at pedestrian crossings etc... are all borne of nothing more than selfishness....   

 

Now as far as judgement goes...  are you not being judgement in your  ‘bet’ that the Op can’t afford a truck and doesn’t have a family ???

 

 

Just because parking doesn’t outrage you, it doesn’t mean it isn’t an issue.

 

 

On the small soi I live down, its enough for two way traffic... then a car parks, so its one way traffic at that point. Then another decides if that driver has parked their car there, they can also park there - then before we know it the road is one way for a 100m or more because loads of cars have decided to park where they want without consideration to others...  

It then takes us 20mins to get out of the Soi in the morning instead of 5mins..... 

 

Multiply that over a city like Bangkok and we have far more unnecessary traffic than there would be if people were not selfish... 

 

[The Hammer2021]

People with little  or no travel experience visit Thailand  because its a very easy place but then make the mistake of criticising  it based on their own cultural and moral standards of the 'little englander'  'the ugly American ' etc. But few of these  people have travelled in India, Africa or the Baltics. Fewer  still have cast a critical eye on their own countries where poverty, child hunger and violence are commonplace in a way  that would be unacceptable in Thailand where the street  dogs get treated better than children  in some first  world countries. 40% of English  children experience food poverty. American  kids fear gun violence  at school. But arrogant white foreign, uninvited visitors making  no contribution  to Thailand  seem to think its ok to call Thais 'useless' because of the way they park their  cars when taking  their family to  a public beach. I consider this just to  be a form  of crusading, racist arrogance.

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, The Hammer2021 said:

99% of parking infractions cause no harm. They are just irritants to the easily irritated.

86.8% of statistics are made up on the spot. 

The harm caused by bad parking is hidden and not immediately obvious. 

 

In example the Op describes (photo’s) its not really an issue and is perhaps an over reaction, however, that is the thin end of the wedge.

 

 

1 hour ago, The Hammer2021 said:

There is a group of people who live in a state of outrage, often they claim to be irritated and upset on 'behalf of others'. But I regard it as a state of neurosis- a border line mental ilness.

Absolultey agree... some people are looking for the problem, looking for outrage. Their behaviour is certainly somewhat neurotic.

 

1 hour ago, The Hammer2021 said:

The demonstration  of personal  freedom is more important and as we can see in Britain with obsessions with health and safety and the  rise  to power of petty jobsworths there is so much to lose. The principle problems the people here in Thailand have is political not personal.

Again, I’d agree, but we can’t deal in absolutes - some issues are important. People have also show that when exercising their personal freedoms they can act selfishly - the very reason for laws and policing of those laws is because people can’t be trusted to act within widely acceptable and reasonable limits when exercising their personal freedoms. 

You may be fine, I may be fine... many may exercise their personal freedoms without any impact on others, but it takes a minority to ruin it for the many which is why laws exist. 

 

1 hour ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Outsiders who criticize the behaviour of Thais whilst ignoring the real problems and real issues deservedly get labelled harshly and perhaps should turn their moral spotlight on their own country.

The identification and discussion of certain issues is not ignorance of other real more important issues. Additionally, just because more serious issues exist it does not mean the seemingly less serious issues are not also important or worthy of discussion, debate, complaint or policing. 

 

Many of the issues against with which voice objection in Thailand also exist in many of our home countries... no one suggests otherwise... However, we are not on a UK or US centric forum. 

 

The discussions held here are ’Thai-centric’ its stands to perfect reason that for those of us that live here and contribute to a Thai based forum, that the discussion surrounds Thailand, be the positives or negatives. 

 

 

1 hour ago, The Hammer2021 said:

Riding on pavements and poor parking is preferable to regular  high school slaughter and mass murder.

Neither is preferable... at all.... 

[Hummin]

8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

86.8% of statistics are made up on the spot. 

The harm caused by bad parking is hidden and not immediately obvious. 

 

 

Blocked traffic prevents ambulance to reach the hospital in time is one important reason to have civilized parking culture. 
 

There is analysis where simple things could improve societies to be more efficient and it does not only save lives, it benefits the economics to, there important to constant improve societies where it cost least money. 
 

Some say beaches would loose money if they made stricter parking regulations, I choose not to go places where it is impossible to park, or heavy traffic is a problem. I avoid going to Bangkok, Pattaya, and Phuket because off traffic. 
 

However it have been nice to visit during covid. 

[morrobay]

About time to stick a fork in this one

[pixelaoffy]

4 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

I find the title to this thread arrogant  and judgemental. Is the OP suggesting he is superior to the locals? Nobody  asked the OP to come and live here. If he doesn't like it here he should leave. Nobody likes whingers. I bet the OP can't afford  a truck  and doesn't have a family to  take to the beach. Never in thirty years here has it occurred to me top be outraged at parking! To actually write about it as a valid  complaint labelling men and a women as being selfish and useless might be considered a form of arrogance bordering mental illness.

Superior to locals by pointing out illegal parking on a footpath, and called the perpetrators selfish and the police who are yards away useless , and you call me arrogant ? Many Thais I know think Thai drivers are 'selfish ' and police are 'useless'  You're the one with a mental illness 

Edited August 10, 2022 by pixelaoffy

[JimTripper]

15 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Regarding the title - Selfish....  that is a word that can readily describe the traffic conditions in Thailand. Many of the woes, the grildlock, the blocking entrances, not stopping at pedestrian crossings etc... are all borne of nothing more than selfishness....   

Your in a different culture. What you think as selfish is no so here.

 

Pushing your way in may mean you are weak and others have to wait for you. You lose face by not showing restraint.

 

Your at a restaurant and expected to pay. Are the other diners selfish or are they doing you a favor, or do they lose face by leaving and you gain face by paying?

Edited August 10, 2022 by JimTripper

[morrobay]

1 hour ago, JimTripper said:

Your in a different culture. What you think as selfish is no so here.

 

Pushing your way in may mean you are weak and others have to wait for you. You lose face by not showing restraint.

 

Your at a restaurant and expected to pay. Are the other diners selfish or are they doing you a favor, or do they lose face by leaving and you gain face by paying?

A train of drivers who do not stop to allow a women with baby to continue crossing a road are selfish in any culture. And this face business only makes the problem worse : The concept of not embarrassing someone has been hi jacked by reckless selfish Thai drivers allowing them to continue being selfish and reckless without being held accountable.

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, morrobay said:

A train of drivers who do not stop to allow a women with baby to continue crossing a road are selfish in any culture. And this face business only makes the problem worse : The concept of not embarrassing someone has been hi jacked by reckless selfish Thai drivers allowing them to continue being selfish and reckless without being held accountable.

In Asia it's the group that's important, not the individual. The flow of traffic is more important then someone waiting to cross the street.

 

If someone insists on crossing anyway, of course people should stop and not hit them, but it's selfish for one person to stop traffic on the street so they can cross. They need to wait until it's clear. If you have a whole group of people crossing it's more legit.

 

Do you see the Chinese walking around in the group with the flag? It's the group that's important. The people wear masks, the group health is important.

 

John Wayne sits at the bar by himself. He does not need a group because he knows the individual is important.

Edited August 11, 2022 by JimTripper

[pixelaoffy]

10 hours ago, JimTripper said:

Your in a different culture. What you think as selfish is no so here.

 

Pushing your way in may mean you are weak and others have to wait for you. You lose face by not showing restraint.

 

Your at a restaurant and expected to pay. Are the other diners selfish or are they doing you a favor, or do they lose face by leaving and you gain face by paying?

selfish is selfish  dress it up anyway you want.  add to irresponsible and stupid    yeah a different cuture 

[pixelaoffy]

8 hours ago, morrobay said:

A train of drivers who do not stop to allow a women with baby to continue crossing a road are selfish in any culture. And this face business only makes the problem worse : The concept of not embarrassing someone has been hi jacked by reckless selfish Thai drivers allowing them to continue being selfish and reckless without being held accountable.

Exactly. amazing how the non Thais lecture folk to accept it as its  "part of the culture". Especially if they dont even belong to that said culture.

Edited August 11, 2022 by pixelaoffy