Solar - 8kW Hybrid Inverter w/10kWh (upgraded to 20kWh in Sept. 2022) ESS/battery (not DIY)

[KhunLA]

Inverter & panels working a bit more than before.  Now outside temp is 30+, so ACs not just coasting to maintain a comfy temp.  Think we hit 34C today, as this was about 1630  hrs.

Actually have to do something.  Before they drew about 1/2kWh, now pulling almost 2kWh, most from the 24kBTU, as bedroom (13k) is freezing.  

 

Add 2.3kWh for the car, and doubt if 5kWh system could handle the house load without grid assistance.

 

Shower is 3.5kWh and ovens+ 2.2kWh - 1.5kWh.   So need to pay attention before using too much, when car is plugged in.

 

Clear skies, so pulling in shy of 8kWh, this morning, just before batteries topped up.   Nice blue skies, and think the pollution has been over for us, since last week's rain ????

 

Installation was in August, nothing but overcast & rain, longer season than usual, then right into cool season.  Only 12-15-18kWh a day for a few months, and only broke 20kWh a day, Dec, Jan, Feb.  Should be about the same this month.   

 

A good part of Dec, Jan, Feb was car use.  Some local exploring.  Not so much March, just everyday home use.

 

Looks like the car just now finished. So far produced 41kWh today, and exceeds yesterday's 35kWh day.

[Encid]

22 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Actually have to do something.  Before they drew about 1/2kWh, now pulling almost 2kWh, most from the 24kBTU, as bedroom (13k) is freezing. 

How long do you have your AC running?

And what temperature(s) are they set at?

[KhunLA]

45 minutes ago, Encid said:

How long do you have your AC running?

And what temperature(s) are they set at?

Bedroom, easily 12 or more hrs.  Main room, 10-12 hrs.  Set between 25-28°, depending if I'm in & out.  26° or 27° is usually quite comfy, actually chilly at times.  We leave the door open between bedroom & main room usually, unless wife cooking something.

 

If we're out for the day, they're still on, main room at least, as dog is usually with any way.  If not with us, then both on, and she has free range of house.  Having a different perch in each room ????

 

Wife is usually chilly ????  Once at temp, they run amazingly efficient.

 

At night if really humid, leave on 28-30° overnight while sleeping for dehumidifier, although on 'cool' setting not dehumidifier setting, instead of turning AC off & using fan.  Floor fan has been enough lately.

[KhunLA]

Just another day ... NO EV charging

 

[KhunLA]

March 2022 ... 24.63kWh per day

Higher daytime temps = more solar.

 

April should match or exceed March's use.

Depending if rains start before month is over.

 

Add on the 37kwh from the grid, one day, to top up the EV, and we broke 800kWh for the month.

 

763kWh = ฿4183 PEA bill

739kWh = ฿4036

PEA bill for 37kWh = ฿155

 

March 14 ... day at the beach

March 22 ... day after local O&A.

[KhunLA]

oops, need to proof more often ... should read March 2023

 

Steady progression of usage350-763kWh:

August 2022, higher only because of exporting (153kWh), which ceased mid month, w/new digital meter.

[KhunLA]

What a difference a couple weeks make ...

... turn the heat up ????

 

Feels like ... HELL

 

Running daily usage since install:

 

For April, so far, 1st week, averaging 30kWh + a day 

 

The single digit # after the month, is amount of days we were O&A, locally, or overnight for the month.   Which means AC not running all day, but also means, more going to the EV, so a bit of a wash.

[KhunLA]

Paying close attention yesterday / last night / this AM.

 

From 17`16 to 0647 (13.5 hrs) ... used 7.6kWh,  AC on all night.

Set at 26°C, more for dehumidifier & air purifier, but on 'cool' setting.

 

Sun started rising, and actually set AC to 24°C & high fan, for short period, before checking use & production.  Producing enough to cover consumption, and back to bedroom, and a bit chilly ????

 

Outside overnight temp was 25°C-/+

2 frigs, AC (1), laptop & TV (65") till 2230

Woke up early, 0340, so laptop & TV on again.

Along with making coffee (grinder & water kettle)

 

[KhunLA]

Those considering solar, especially if wanting to play 'off' grid, do need to pay attention.  Mismanage your use and you may get caught short.

 

Used 12kWh during non production hours yesterday/overnight ????  Usually average 7kWh during that period.

 

We'll call that 'user error' ... dumbA$$

 

Decided to bake bread late in the afternoon.  Wife on sewing machine till almost sunset.  2 ACs going, 2 frigs, laptop and TV, a bit longer than should have.  1 AC all night (13BTUs @ 26°C).

 

Woke up and ESSs @ 40%/8kWh of 20kWh ESSs before production matched consumption.  AC still running, coffee being made, grinder/kettle/coffee machine ????

 

Noon and only at 84%, since a bit of overcast, clouds & pollution today ????  Batteries usually topped up between 1000-1100 hrs.  @ 100% / 1315 hrs.

 

Inverter is set to have the grid kick in at 30%, which hasn't happened since installed, even when having 1 ESS (10kWh), though being conservative then.

 

EVs were already topped up, since staying in this weekend, Songkran, so no issue there.  Grid is available if needed, if being a total airhead.

 

Brutal month, heat wise, as 28° ish overnight, outside ambient temps.  Production, an average of 33.3kWh a day for April.

[Muhendis]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Those considering solar, especially if wanting to play 'off' grid, do need to pay attention.  Mismanage your use and you may get caught short.

You have highlighted the "cutting it a bit fine" scenario.

The two choices we are faced with when deciding to go solar are;

1.  Do we make enough power to run everything at random or

2.  Do we build a system knowing that we must adhere to the limitations.

 

Using PEA is a relatively bottomless pit of available power, but making your own power demands paying close attention to what you are expecting for your investment.

I have always advised anyone contemplating solar independence to make a list of the equipment you have and the time of day when it is going to be used.

I have to say. Most people don't bother and then wonder why they ain't got enough power.

 

The spreadsheet is an absolutely worst case scenario.

 

I did my spreadsheet before I started and came to the conclusion that a 12kW inverter would be required powered by 7kW of panels + 36kW of batteries.

I ended up with an 8kW inverter, 7.2kW solar and 36kW batteries.

 

It looks a wee bit underpowered but my wife and I are aware and watch what we run which, most of the time is not a problem.

 

[KhunLA]

A new high for us yesterday;

produced / consumed ... 48 / 46.9kWh

13.5kWh going to the EV

 

I took note of our non producing use, overnight;

1630-2400 ... 5.8kWh

0000-0700 ... 3.2kWh

Total of 9kWh, w/bdrm AC running all night

 

Minus the EV, and ~25% of our use is overnight, 14.5 hours of no production.

 

All things being equal, people considering Solar, need to balance that use, with their daytime use.   And if not home during the day (work/school), solar may take some time to get that ROI.

 

IF home during the day, then 75% of you monthly PEA bill, during solar production.   Then can decide if investing in ESS, for overnight, for the other 25% would be worth the extra expenditure.

 

As mentioned, more than a few times, do expect a digital meter coming your way in the future.  Don't expect PEA/MEA, buying back excess any time soon.

 

Definitely consider a hybrid inverter, at small added cost, so if & when you need to add an ESS, you're already set for that.  Make use of the spin back meter, if using PEA/MEA for overnight use, as long as you can.

DISCLAIMER:  NOT an endorsement to steal from PEA/MEA, just an option you may or may not want to consider.

[Encid]

On 8/8/2022 at 9:28 AM, KhunLA said:

Components of:

DEYE SUN-8K-SG01LP1-EU 8kw Single Phase Hybrid Solar inverter...

So 8 months down the track are you happy with the Deye inverter?

If you were to do it again would you buy the same brand again?

[Encid]

On 4/24/2023 at 8:38 AM, KhunLA said:

Definitely consider a hybrid inverter, at small added cost, so if & when you need to add an ESS, you're already set for that.  Make use of the spin back meter, if using PEA/MEA for overnight use, as long as you can.

I am now doing exactly that... 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Encid said:

So 8 months down the track are you happy with the Deye inverter?

If you were to do it again would you buy the same brand again?

Yes.  No issues and yea, I'd stick with Deye again.

[KhunLA]

@Encid

Think the only thing I'd do different, is get two 5kWh inverters instead of the one 8kWh.  Extra kWh would never hurt, and nice to have 2, JIC 1 has an oops.

 

Also the Deye's 5kWh inverter is on the approved PEA list, if they ever get around to pay for excess to the grid.

 

8kWh inverter is not, and the Deye 10kWh inverter is approved for 3 Phase.

[KhunLA]

April ... almost broke 1000kWh, if not for late afternoon thundershower.

 

Rainy season contrast, pushing out 8+kWh ... and then, oh well.

 

[KhunLA]

Overnight use of ESSs has been at it's most this past week.  May 1-8, production/consumption just shy of 35kWh a day, with 8-10kWh of that overnight, 14ish hrs of no production, 1800-0800hrs.  

 

About 5-6kWh till midnight, then 3ish kWh midnight till 0800 when system starts producing more than consumption.  Only thing extra on till midnight is TV (65").  One 13k BTU AC, 2 frigs running the whole time.  AC set @ 27C +/-.

 

Waking up with 50-60% of ESSs remaining of 20kWh ESSs (2/10kWh)

 

February, March, April and first half of May, 1 ESS @ 10kWh simply isn't enough for us.  Really wouldn't want to run the ESS down to <20% every day, and never went below 35% when only have 1 ESS during Aug/Sept 2022.

 

2nd ESS was added after we got our digital meter, as wanting to be 'off grid' as much as possible.

 

Next 10 day temp forecast is low 30s instead of high 30s, along with overcast and light afternoon spritz of rain ... finally.  Production has been excellent with sunny skies, actually broke 50kWh one day, a new high for us.  EV accounting for a bit of that.

 

Average daily kWh production / use for this year:

May 35 +/- so far, should drop down

Apr     32.96
Mar    24.63
Feb     23.17 
Jan     19.48    2023

 

 

[KhunLA]

Wow, what a difference, since heavily overcast now.  ESSs @ 80%, which on sunny day, are topped up by now, if not charging the EV, and that's with ACs on.  Production barely keeping up with consumption, if we turn an (1) AC on.

 

Produced 7.7kWh, consumed 6kWh since midnight. Now:

Production @ 2kWh +/-

Consumption @ 0.5kWh

ESSs getting 1.5kWh

 

Guess we're back in conservative use mode.  Outside temp @ 33C , inside 29C, though humid.  Maybe time for that morning shower, and hopefully the water coming out a lot cooler than past week.  I could bake bread without heating the tap water the past week, month.

 

(edit) ... that feels better, and now it's actually raining, sporadic & light ????️

[KhunLA]

Then the sun shows up, house cooled off, and ZS EV being topped up????:

[KhunLA]

Inverter can't be accused of not performing up to specs ????

 

 

[Muhendis]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Inverter can't be accused of not performing up to specs ????

Excellent stuff. looks like a top level inverter.

Tell me something.

Looking at the inverter display panel in the top right corner does that symbol mean it can also test motor vehicles for road worthiness?

[KhunLA]

8kWh solar enough to power house, 2ACs (13 & 24BTUs) & the ZS EV.

Goes something like this, in stages, as production increases: car, bdrm AC, main/kitchen AC:

[KhunLA]

A few contradicting thoughts.   April & May, more than a few days producing / consuming 40+/-kWh a day. Shy of 1000kWh for April, and might break 1000kWh for May, maybe, if the sun comes back out.

 

Along with brutally hot, but as long as <42°C, the solar panels top operating temp, then no problem.

 

How hot .... DAMN HOT, where's raining season & my overcast skies.   Be careful what you wish for.

 

Yesterday & today, trying to top up the EV, that ain't happening.   With minimal AC use, low temps so don't really need, and baking bread, didn't leave much for the car.

 

Started at 73%, and only up to 85%.  Didn't even plug in yet today, as not producing enough extra (2.3kWh) and that's with very little running in the house.  When suns out, have plenty of excess for EV before 0900 hrs.

 

Produced & consumed only 25.9 & 24.2kWh yesterday, and that's with 5.5kWh going to the car.  So back to production/consumption level when first installed, Aug/Sept, of <20kWh a day.  Only because of the EV, we used a bit more.

Now ... no shadows being cast on the ground, and expecting a bit of rain, just after noon, for a short spritz.  At least the panels will get rinsed off ????

[KhunLA]

May #s ... new day & month high since installed, Aug 2022

1000kwh for the month, with couple days out of the house.

 

PEA 1000kWh = ฿5,491.51 + ฿3000 (petrol savings) = ฿8490

฿445k ÷ ฿8490 = 4.37 yr ROI for solar system ????

 

So 4-7 yr ROI ... might even live long enough to see it ????

 

 

 

[KhunLA]

How much solar do you need ... ?

 

For us, when home, at least 30kWh a day, if hot & humid.

If not home, seems between 5-6kWh a day. ???? That's just to keep 2 medium size frigs, and 2 lights on 24/7.

 

Days before going O&A, averaged 30kWh

Days while O&A, 5-6kWh

2 non efficient frigs, and 2 standard tube lights

 

When home 2 Mitsubishi, very efficient, heavy duty inverter ACs.

Bedroom on 18ish hrs a day

Main room, 9ish hrs a day 

 

Previous few months, averaged 30-33 kWh a day. The over 30kWh a day, can be attributed to the EVs.  If not having those, would expect usage to be 25-30kWh average a day for the month, during hot & humid.

 

Two full top ups for the EV (car) would be 93kWh a month, so about 3kWh a day, on average.   Scooter & ebike really aren't worth a mention.

[KhunLA]

Unlike the forecasted La Niña, pending dry, drought year, it's been heavily overcast and raining almost everyday.  Meaning production is same as August 2022, when installed, and we were being conservative.

 

Yesterday, overcast & some rain, basically no sun, but produced more than enough.  Although, minimal use, as ACs not needed, and no cooking.

 

Today, still overcast, and wee bit of rain, though sun did pop out a bit, on & off.  So EV (car) topped up, only 10%, and ACs on, since sun warming things up, along with baking bread.  Producing up to 6.5kWh at times, though consuming 5-6kWk at times. 

 

Today, already produced 20kWh and consumed 16.5kWh.

Yesterday, only produced 14kWh, since needing only 13kWh.  Matching the average daily use for end of rainy season last year, or 15-12-15kWh a day, for Aug-Sept-Oct.

 

Beginning 5 days of this month, June, before rainy season kicking in, and producing/consuming 30+kWh a day.

 

So no real surprises with the pending La Niña, good or bad.  We'll be out & about a bit this rainy season, so daily/monthly averages will be kind of useless.  S last week, headed N this week.

[Skipalongcassidy]

On 2/16/2023 at 10:19 AM, KhunLA said:

Thought on ROI, for our solar system, in conjunction with having EVs.

 

Someone commented on my signature elsewhere, pointing out, I paid in advance for my energy, correct, but followed with, 'average ROI is 10 to 20 yrs'.  Not sure where or what price he based that on, but certainly not TH.

 

Out of conservative mode, as our system is more than enough to handle needs now.  Looking at recent numbers, with higher temps and AC use/abuse.

 

We're averaging, or will, average 20-30kWh a day, if not more during March, April & mid May.  But just using 20-30kWh a day, here's ballpark on ROI.

20kWh X 30 = 600kWh month, PEA cost ฿3223

30kWh X 30 = 900kWh month, PEA cost ฿4942

 

Need to add the ฿3000 a month, we no longer spend on petrol, so monthly cost, if using PEA & PTT, would be low of ฿6223 & high of ฿7942 monthly.  Divided into cost of our Solar system, which if DIY, would cost less:

฿445k ÷ ฿6223 = 71.5 ÷ 12 = 5.95 yrs

฿445k ÷ ฿7942 = 56 ÷ 12 = 4.67 yrs

 

So margin of error either way, and looking at a 4-7 yr ROI, not taking into account any consideration of fluctuating prices of electric or petrol.

 

Before anyone states, 'but you had to buy the EV also' ...

... yes, but the EV comes with a 50kWh battery pack, which would cost about ฿500k if adding that much ESSs to a solar system.  So that surely offsets the extra ฿200k that the EV version cost over the ICE version of the same car, which we owned prior.

 

After ROI period, everything forward is FREE ????

Hence the 'we save instead of spend' part of statement. You could even say, after 4-7 yrs, 'we're getting paid to have solar & EVs'  ????

I got a quote for a 5kw hybrid system... 400K baht.

400K divided by 3K monthly = 133 months... divided by 12 months = 11.1 years

This is minimal payback parameters... 

[KhunLA]

41 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

I got a quote for a 5kw hybrid system... 400K baht.

400K divided by 3K monthly = 133 months... divided by 12 months = 11.1 years

This is minimal payback parameters... 

฿400k, that's a bit steep price for 5kw system, and guessing only 10kwh of ESS.   Slow ROI, but if monthly bills run now about ฿3k for electric, worth it in long run.   If staying there in house that long, living that long, or wife/partner will carry on after you move on to next dimension.

 

Our bills were 3-5k, and then with the EVs, about 3k a month in petrol, we'll recoup ROI fairly quick.  I may even live long enough, but wife will enjoy the payoffs long after I'm gone.

 

Only 10 months in, but happy with our system, and may want to give our installer a ring/email.  Tell him LA said 'Hi' ... he's buying the beer next time.

 

He's scheduled to put in 2 other systems for AN members.

 

PM sent, as not sure if allowed to link info, and don't want yet another post of mine deleted.

 

[motdaeng]

36 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

I got a quote for a 5kw hybrid system... 400K baht.

400K divided by 3K monthly = 133 months... divided by 12 months = 11.1 years

This is minimal payback parameters... 

what type and capacity of battery do you have?

 

be aware that you could need to replace the inverter, part of the battery,

or some panels within 10 years ...

[BritManToo]

37 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

I got a quote for a 5kw hybrid system... 400K baht.

400K divided by 3K monthly = 133 months... divided by 12 months = 11.1 years

This is minimal payback parameters... 

Yeah but that quote was 4x the normal price for a 5kW system.

I paid 100kbht for mine, the batteries being 1/2 the total cost.