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Minor collision: Who's in the wrong?


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I was just riding my motorbike along a single-carriageway road, and I needed to turn right, across the oncoming traffic into my local Kerry Express.

The oncoming traffic had pretty much stopped, and an SUV had completely stopped, leaving a gap for me to go through. I'm pretty sure they actually let me across in front of them, as it appeared to be one of my neighbours. Of course, in the UK we flash our lights to give others way, but in Thailand they just sit there and do nothing, or wave their hands behind dark-tinted windows.

Anyway, I went across in front of the SUV and I was within about 3 metres of my destination and parking spot in front of Kerry.

However, overtaking on the inside/left side of the SUV and other slow-moving cars was a lady on a scooter. She was making all kinds of noises (from her mouth) before and after the very small collision between the front of her front tyre and the side of mine. She continued on her way shaking her head and making similar noises. No damage, and no injuries. We didn't need to exchange opinions or anything else. We both continued our journeys.

 

22 years ago I was once doing exactly what she did (pass/undertake on the left of traffic) and a car turned left into a soi, causing me to crash. Since then I have (almost) never passed on the inside, as it's just dangerous. I also feel that it's important to consider why the traffic is slow or stopped when over or undertaking it, and I try to be aware of things like this.

Would you guys and gals say this is a 50/50, or that she or I am in the wrong? For example if there had been damage or injury, this would need to be decided.

Thanks in advance. Stay safe! 🛵

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3 minutes ago, androokery said:

And you can overtake another vehicle on any side?

Its not over taking... its lane splitting queuing traffic. 

 

In the middle of Bangkok, when in slow moving traffic and the middle lane moves faster than the right most lane its not considered ‘under-taking’ (overtaking)... its just moving traffic. 

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1 hour ago, 2long said:

Would you guys and gals say this is a 50/50

I would say it's 50/50 in Thailand you didn't see her and she didn't see you so a mistake by both of you. 

 

In Thailand you were ambushed in UK it would be her fault. 😂

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The trouble is, it's pretty much impossible to see what's coming up the inside of an SUV in such a tight and narrow space without at least sticking my front wheel past the corner of the SUV, which is what I did.
I'm certainly not claiming to be in the right, but nor am I taking all the blame.

 

It's not really 'lane splitting' because there is only one lane travelling in each direction. It's undertaking, past a market carpark.

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22 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

If I was driving or riding and going straight on and a car or motorcyclist turned across me, I would not accept 50/50 at all. 

A a car (SUV) stopping does not change traffic law, the SUV does not become a traffic light, a junction with an unbroken white line and a give way sign.

 

The motorcyclist is perfectly within her rights to be riding ’straight on’.... 

 

Yes, stupid of the motorcyclist not to ride defensively and consider why the SUV stopped, but that does not place the female at fault for not stopping, the OP should not have turned across traffic without first ensuring ALL traffic was giving way and had stopped.

 

How can you explain that in the UK he is at fault ? he has turned across traffic without knowing the road was clear.

 

Disgree I think you are wrong in both sinario's they would be both accidents, how the fault and who would be to blame in Thailand if someone was hurt could be anyone's guess. 

 

In UK I believe as I said  she would be at fault not he. 

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30 minutes ago, 2long said:

The trouble is, it's pretty much impossible to see what's coming up the inside of an SUV in such a tight and narrow space without at least sticking my front wheel past the corner of the SUV, which is what I did.
I'm certainly not claiming to be in the right, but nor am I taking all the blame.

 

It's not really 'lane splitting' because there is only one lane travelling in each direction. It's undertaking, past a market carpark.

The SUV stopped for you putting you in a situation where you are now aware that Thai motorbike riders will go on the inside of stopped SUV probably thinking it was going to turn right. 

I think you are fortunate she had probably slowed down at least and no-one was hurt. 

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The key missing information is was she riding on the highway or was she illegally passing on the left.   Many shoulders are wide enough for cars but that does not make them a legal traffic lane.

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The OP was at fault - no doubt.

As for flashing headlights - it means different  things in different  countries.  Only in the  UK does it mean 'I'm yielding  to you'

In most countries its a warning 'I'm coming through'

 

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A right turn across other vehicles is fine providing your exit path is clear...in this case it wasn`t someone rightly or wrongly was passing on the inside and they have right of way...luckily you slowed down and no damage done...your fault IMHO sorry.

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17 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Disgree I think you are wrong in both sinario's they would be both accidents, how the fault and who would be to blame in Thailand if someone was hurt could be anyone's guess. 

Knowing regulations and the law in Thailand can swing things in your favour before the Police make the decision to go with the path of least resistance (which is usually, wealthier person pays out (up to a point where a person has influence). 

 

Years ago (possibly 20 years ago) I was turning right on Petchaburi rd (in BKK), not at a junction, across traffic into an office building...

I was in the right hand lane (3 lanes in each direction), nothing coming in the opposite direction, as I made my turn across three lanes I was hit by a van trying to over take me. 

 

Police initially tried to blame me for making the turn. I managed to disperse the blame indicating that the van should never have been attempting to over take. I refused to accept any fault, but in the end accepted 50:50... the van was uninsured.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, 2long said:

Of course, in the UK we flash our lights to give others way, but in Thailand they just sit there and do nothing, or wave their hands behind dark-tinted windows.

Rule 110

Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

Rule 111

Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully.

 

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/general-rules-techniques-and-advice-for-all-drivers-and-riders-103-to-158#:~:text=Rule 110,or intimidate other road users.

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8 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Knowing regulations and the law in Thailand can swing things in your favour before the Police make the decision to go with the path of least resistance (which is usually, wealthier person pays out (up to a point where a person has influence). 

 

Years ago (possibly 20 years ago) I was turning right on Petchaburi rd (in BKK), not at a junction, across traffic into an office building...

I was in the right hand lane (3 lanes in each direction), nothing coming in the opposite direction, as I made my turn across three lanes I was hit by a van trying to over take me. 

 

Police initially tried to blame me for making the turn. I managed to disperse the blame indicating that the van should never have been attempting to over take. I refused to accept any fault, but in the end accepted 50:50... the van was uninsured.

 

Yeah the learning curve and 20 + years ago when I first started driving in Thailand I was given good advice by treating Thailand as learning to drive again because so many maneuvers are made by motorbike and cars/truck driver etc that I would be automatically thinking they wouldn't make but will do it. 

 

It makes the envasis of the boy scout moto a good one to remember all the time while driving /riding here. 👍

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Technically, i think, you are to blame.

You make the turn, but still any traffic going straight you have to let them pass.

She was "overtaking" in wrong way, but you had to let her pass.

I learned, if a car or anything else stops, you approach while taking speed back,

an unusual  situation, keeping your eyes open to see what is happening.

Im still doing that ever since.

However the Thai woman did not and you didnt either.  Luckily "happy ending"

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3 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

The OP was at fault - no doubt.

As for flashing headlights - it means different  things in different  countries.  Only in the  UK does it mean 'I'm yielding  to you'

In most countries its a warning 'I'm coming through'

 

In the UK flashing your lights does not mean I am yielding to you it means “I am here” but many people use it incorrectly.

Rule 110 of the UK Highway Code states: “Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. “Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.”

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12 minutes ago, krabi local said:

In the UK flashing your lights does not mean I am yielding to you it means “I am here” but many people use it incorrectly.

Rule 110 of the UK Highway Code states: “Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. “Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.”

Yes. How we use it and how the  highway code  describes  it are different. Many people in the UK use the the quick flash to mean - You can go ahead. It's not used like that  in other countries  but as warning - or to make one's presence  known.

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4 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

The OP was at fault - no doubt.

As for flashing headlights - it means different  things in different  countries.  Only in the  UK does it mean 'I'm yielding  to you'

In most countries its a warning 'I'm coming through'

 

It most certainly does not mean 'I'm yielding' in the UK - quite the opposite. The Highway Code is quite clear.

 

Rule 110

Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

Rule 111

Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully.

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1 minute ago, mrfill said:

It most certainly does not mean 'I'm yielding' in the UK - quite the opposite. The Highway Code is quite clear.

 

Rule 110

Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

Rule 111

Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully.

I'm not quoting  the highway code. I'm quoting how drivers actually  use the headlight flash and  its commonly used to mean ' You go ahead'

I am aware it not how the Highway  code  defines its use. Not everyone  abides by the  Highway  code.  I have been  driving for about 50 years both large commercial vehicles and domestic  vehicles in numerous  countries. Can you say the same? I certainly  don't need you  quoting the Highway code at me.

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6 minutes ago, mrfill said:

It most certainly does not mean 'I'm yielding' in the UK - quite the opposite. The Highway Code is quite clear.

 

Rule 110

Flashing headlights. Only flash your headlights to let other road users know that you are there. Do not flash your headlights to convey any other message or intimidate other road users.

Rule 111

Never assume that flashing headlights is a signal inviting you to proceed. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully.

There is...  ‘what is means in the highway code’... vs ‘what is means on the roads of the UK’... 

Everyone is in fact correct on this one when arguing from there own specific point of view... 

 

- In the US highway code the flashing of lights are a warning. 

- In the real world in UK’s roads, the flashing of lights are a submission to yield.

 

Both are correct. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

There is...  ‘what is means in the highway code’... vs ‘what is means on the roads of the UK’... 

Everyone is in fact correct on this one when arguing from there own specific point of view... 

 

- In the US highway code the flashing of lights are a warning. 

- In the real world in UK’s roads, the flashing of lights are a submission to yield.

 

Both are correct. 

 

 

I know. And I don't need to be told. But thanks for keeping people properly informed.

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