Trump under investigation for potential violations of Espionage Act

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Hey! Cut that out right now! I'll have you know that some of my best friends are from Georgia.

it is often said that you can tell a lot about a person, by the company they keep!!!!!!!!!

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, heybruce said:

How has the UK been an unreliable ally to Ukraine?

Sorry  -  misread previous.

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

He also cost the US Taxpayer big.

 

When his wife stayed in NYC for the first six months, security cost $500,000 per day. Overall bill was $90,000,000.

 

His golf cost, according to OMB, was more than $150 million over 4 years. His kids' trips to Dubai and India to try to license the name to properties there costs a lot. He also used to insist that stopover flights in the UK put up SS and other personnel at his Scottish golf course, Turnberry.

No links, Too expensive?

[Gecko123]

Comments from John Bolton quoted in below NYTimes article shred Trump's claims that the documents were declassified:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/14/us/politics/trump-documents-explanations.html

 

Mr. Bolton, who served as Mr. Trump’s third national security adviser over 17 months, said he had never heard of the standing order that Mr. Trump’s office claimed to have in place. It is, he said, “almost certainly a lie.”

 

“I was never briefed on any such order, procedure, policy when I came in,” Mr. Bolton said, adding that he had never been told of it while he was working there, and had never heard of such a thing after. “If he were to say something like that, you would have to memorialize that, so that people would know it existed,” he said.

 

What’s more, he pointed out, secure facilities for viewing sensitive material were constructed at Mr. Trump’s clubs in Florida and New Jersey, where he often spent weekends as president, meaning that the documents wouldn’t need to be declassified. And if they were declassified, Mr. Bolton said, they would be considered subject to public record requests.

 

He continued, “When somebody begins to concoct lies like this, it shows a real level of desperation.”

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

quote "I would say beyond the shadow of a doubt DoJ has to consider that 45 intended to monetize the material."

 

So we should go ahead, skip the trial by jury, and go straight to his punishment because some Tom Clancy fan on the internet says he is deffo going to try monetizing these alleged confidential papers he allegedly stole? Sounds illogical in the extreme.

 

quote "It is always a consideration in violations involving classified material. The same was considered when an NSA employee was found with lots of docs at his home. Investigation cleared him of that, but he still got 9 years in jail."

 

 Is there any precedent we can draw from? Has anybody either running for President or actually been President had confidential material at home for whatever reason? How was that punished by the FBI? Would it have showed Trump is more honest if rather than alerting the FBI to his storage of documents at home and allowed them to add another padlock for security that he smashed the documents with a hammer and bleach?

 

What is this, day 4? And STILL the FBI can't say whether it found these stolen allegedly classified documents and clear this mess up for the nation. Beyond farcical.

Farcical?  How about keeping the investigation under tight wraps and not trying it in the court of public opinion like you want.

[placeholder]

44 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Actually, he did have a State translator in the room (Maria Gross), but claimed executive privilege and did not even allow Pompeo to question her. He also took her notes and destroyed them, not showing his Nat Sec Adviser, Sec State, DCI or DNI.

 

He would not have been allowed to carry any classified docs into that meeting, by the way. Not with vladdy in the room. He could bring what was in his head, which tends to be delusions of grandeur and little more.

 

He walked out of that meeting as white as a ghost, while putin had a devilish smile. 45 then sided with vladdy over the US intel Community and accepted the soccer ball gift from putin (which was bugged).

Thanks for the correction. 

Now that Trump is no longer president, executive privilege wouldn't apply to what this translator heard. In fact, I think Biden would have a duty to find out what it was that Trump said to Putin and vice versa.

[Phoenix Rising]

Fox News host wonders aloud if Trump could have tried to sell highly classified material to the Russians or Saudi Arabians

 

"A Fox News host on Sunday wondered aloud if former President Donald Trump might have attempted to sell the classified documents he kept at Mar-a-Lago to Russia or Saudi Arabia. "And more questions are being raised this morning. Did former President Trump try to sell or share the highly classified material to the Russians or to the Saudis, or others?" Shawn asked."

 

Gotta tell you Shawn, you're not the only one wondering!

[placeholder]

19 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Fox News host wonders aloud if Trump could have tried to sell highly classified material to the Russians or Saudi Arabians

 

"A Fox News host on Sunday wondered aloud if former President Donald Trump might have attempted to sell the classified documents he kept at Mar-a-Lago to Russia or Saudi Arabia. "And more questions are being raised this morning. Did former President Trump try to sell or share the highly classified material to the Russians or to the Saudis, or others?" Shawn asked."

 

Gotta tell you Shawn, you're not the only one wondering!

If Trump was divulging such information, and I don't think he was, it would more likely be because of coercion. That intelligence services had something on him. But I doubt it.

[newnative]

20 hours ago, ozimoron said:

And, as far as Donald Trump is concerned, Democrats still think Donald Trump is the best Republican nominee for Democrats to run against. They think he is politically weak, not only with Democrats but with moderate and independent voters as well,

 

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-2657860680/

Well, he did lose by over 7 million votes last time around . . .

[ballpoint]

1 hour ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Fox News host wonders aloud if Trump could have tried to sell highly classified material to the Russians or Saudi Arabians

 

"A Fox News host on Sunday wondered aloud if former President Donald Trump might have attempted to sell the classified documents he kept at Mar-a-Lago to Russia or Saudi Arabia. "And more questions are being raised this morning. Did former President Trump try to sell or share the highly classified material to the Russians or to the Saudis, or others?" Shawn asked."

 

Gotta tell you Shawn, you're not the only one wondering!

From what we know of Trump's insecurity and childish delight at thinking he's getting one over his opponents, whether they know, or care, about it or not, he probably sat up at night thumbing through and gloating over them while pretending he was still president.  However, what if the reason for the delay in grabbing these documents, despite them knowing where they were for a few months now, was that the FBI was running a sting operation, with an undercover agent posing as a buyer for some of them, and the fish just took the bait?  Admittedly, it's a rather big 'what if', but the possibility is there.

[Slickrick]

Any fair-minded person can see that this was the only way the FBI, (even though they were there 2 months prior coordinating all of this and everything was fine) could get into Trumps home to actually search for anything and everything, looking for a smoking gun, and trying to make a J6 out of all this.  An investigation in search of a crime.

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

From what we know of Trump's insecurity and childish delight at thinking he's getting one over his opponents, whether they know, or care, about it or not, he probably sat up at night thumbing through and gloating over them while pretending he was still president.  However, what if the reason for the delay in grabbing these documents, despite them knowing where they were for a few months now, was that the FBI was running a sting operation, with an undercover agent posing as a buyer for some of them, and the fish just took the bait?  Admittedly, it's a rather big 'what if', but the possibility is there.

Because only now has someone fessed up their location. Furthermore, they likely had another reason to act now, that question remains to be seen.

[Thingamabob]

15 minutes ago, newnative said:

Well, he did lose by over 7 million votes last time around . . .

However, over 70 million people did vote for Trump.

[Bkk Brian]

19 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

However, over 70 million people did vote for Trump.

Then spat the dummy out because it wasn't enough, Jan 6 was another failure so he nabbed classified docs and sped away to Mar-a-Lago...........

[riclag]

26 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Because only now has someone fessed up their location. Furthermore, they likely had another reason to act now, that question remains to be seen.

You have no link for that! Im assuming your talking about this source that said originally that Garland had no knowledge of the raid .

A important mischaracterization and speaks to the validity of the informer imop 

6:30 p.m.: A quote that mischaracterized Garland's role was deleted. Newsweek regrets the error

 

 https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-informer-told-fbi-what-docs-trump-was-hiding-where-1732283

[ThailandRyan]

37 minutes ago, Slickrick said:

Any fair-minded person can see that this was the only way the FBI, (even though they were there 2 months prior coordinating all of this and everything was fine) could get into Trumps home to actually search for anything and everything, looking for a smoking gun, and trying to make a J6 out of all this.  An investigation in search of a crime.

You are hopelessly lost.  To know whether or not a crime has been committed you need to investigate it, collect evidence, or do you watch to much CSI and believe that it only takes an hour from the time the crime was committed to being found guilty by the jury.  You could have photographic proof, even a video showing a crime, and you yourself would ask Why isn't that enough to arrest someone........you would think that you would understand more than your putting on or maybe your just trolling and think everything is a witch hunt and all is political....god help the world when people think like you do....

[Phoenix Rising]

38 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

However, over 70 million people did vote for Trump.

Yes, still blows my mind. 

[Slickrick]

6 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You are hopelessly lost.  To know whether or not a crime has been committed you need to investigate it, collect evidence, or do you watch to much CSI and believe that it only takes an hour from the time the crime was committed to being found guilty by the jury.  You could have photographic proof, even a video showing a crime, and you yourself would ask Why isn't that enough to arrest someone........you would think that you would understand more than your putting on or maybe your just trolling and think everything is a witch hunt and all is political....god help the world when people think like you do....

 

[ozimoron]

18 minutes ago, riclag said:

You have no link for that! Im assuming your talking about this source that said originally that Garland had no knowledge of the raid .

A important mischaracterization and speaks to the validity of the informer imop 

6:30 p.m.: A quote that mischaracterized Garland's role was deleted. Newsweek regrets the error

 

 https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-informer-told-fbi-what-docs-trump-was-hiding-where-1732283

Totally off track. I'm talking about somebody having just coughed up the location of the missing documents. Nothing to do with what Garland knew.

[riclag]

11 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You are hopelessly lost.  To know whether or not a crime has been committed you need to investigate it, collect evidence, or do you watch to much CSI and believe that it only takes an hour from the time the crime was committed to being found guilty by the jury.  You could have photographic proof, even a video showing a crime, and you yourself would ask Why isn't that enough to arrest someone........you would think that you would understand more than your putting on or maybe your just trolling and think everything is a witch hunt and all is political....god help the world when people think like you do....

Its his  opinion ! Its a discussion forum . There are people who have concerns with intel agencies and their tactics.imop

remember what Schumer said.

[Walker88]

3 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Yes, still blows my mind. 

Perhaps you forget, but there's an entire left of the mean on the IQ Bell Curve. Move out from the median 1-2 std devs left, and you have landed in 45's bread and better demographic.

 

Look at the drooling goobers who show up at his rallies. Lots of QAnon flags and logos, caricatures of 45 that make him look other than the morbidly obese butterball he is, etc. Pure fantasy. I don't think any of the rally goers were in my class at Harvard or Stanford. The Universe severely shortchanged them when it came to intellect.

[ThailandRyan]

8 minutes ago, Slickrick said:

 

Where is your Post that was given a like by another poster, was it a disappearing post that only lasts for 15 seconds....lol

[ThailandRyan]

18 minutes ago, riclag said:

Its his  opinion ! Its a discussion forum . There are people who have concerns with intel agencies and their tactics.imop

remember what Schumer said.

Remind me what Shumer said, oh wait that is an entirely different topic and Off the topic we are discussing.  I feel sorry when people have no idea of how an investigation works.  You do not investigate to make up a crime, you investigate to ensure that if a crime was committed and you had probable cause to search for evidence that the crime did occur or did not occur.  I can assure you that I investigated many alleged crimes and found no evidence to go further with the investigation.

[Slickrick]

16 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

You are hopelessly lost.  To know whether or not a crime has been committed you need to investigate it, collect evidence, or do you watch to much CSI and believe that it only takes an hour from the time the crime was committed to being found guilty by the jury.  You could have photographic proof, even a video showing a crime, and you yourself would ask Why isn't that enough to arrest someone........you would think that you would understand more than your putting on or maybe your just trolling and think everything is a witch hunt and all is political....god help the world when people think like you do....

Let them investigate all they want, trying to get this guy and you don't see this ok fine.  I stand by my statement.

[Slickrick]

11 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Where is your Post that was given a like by another poster, was it a disappearing post that only lasts for 15 seconds....lol

Calm down ThailandRyan, no reason to get all excited.

[LosLobo]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

However, over 70 million people did vote for Trump.

In the 2020 Election, Trump lost the popular vote to Biden by 7 million.

 

In the 2016 Election, he lost the popular vote to Hillary by 3 million.

 

Obviously, he is a serial loser!

[billd766]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

So why not demolish them then?

Have you ever tried to destroy a tank or an aeroplane let alone dozens or hundreds in the full view of the worlds press?

 

To remove all the weaponry would take months of preparation and removal work and extra manpower.

 

But I guess that for a keyboard warrior it is simply a matter of a few clicks on a keyboard.

 

Unfortunately real life is not that simple.

 

Back in the 1960s to move one Squadron of 12 aircraft, 20 pilots and around 100 ground crew from Norfolk to Libya for a month took 3 transport aircraft, 2 weeks of planning and transit flights across France and Malta to get to Libya and these were friendly territories. In addition equipment was already on station when we got there.

 

You think that moving an army and all its support equipment plus the hundreds of men and women over 1,500 km and 2 not really friendly countries to a seaport and then shipping it thousands of km back to the USA is so simple.

 

And that is only the Army, Then you have the USAF with all its man and women power and equipment, some of which can fly out on its own, some can be flown out but the rest will have to be transported.

 

Then of course you have all the support units with their equipment as well.

 

If you have no idea what is involved then a simple comment such as yours  quote "So why not demolish them then?" proves to me and to any ex military person how simple you are.

 

BTW the cost of this would be enormous and you would be whining about that too.

 

The cost of demolishing the equipment in front of the worlds news cameras would do incalculable damage to the USA.

 

Why do you think that the Russians abandoned so much when they quit Afghanistan and ther are only across the border.

[Bkk Brian]

Trump’s Shifting Explanations Follow a Familiar Playbook

 

“What he doesn’t have the right to do is possess the documents; they are not his,” Jason R. Baron, a former director of litigation at the National Archives for more than a decade, said. “There should be no presidential records at Mar-a-Lago, whether they are classified or unclassified or subject to executive privilege or subject to attorney-client privilege.”

 

Mr. Bolton, who served as Mr. Trump’s third national security adviser over 17 months, said he had never heard of the standing order that Mr. Trump’s office claimed to have in place. It is, he said, “almost certainly a lie.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/14/us/politics/trump-documents-explanations.html   

 

non paywall link here

[newnative]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Given that Trump's business consists mainly of real estate pass through corporations, and real estate and pass through corporations were especially favored by his 2017 tax bill, let's not get too carried away by his alleged generosity.

 

Trump Says G.O.P. Tax Bill Wouldn’t Benefit Him. That’s Not True.

“Commercial real estate came out essentially unscathed,” said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, president of the American Action Forum, a conservative advocacy group. Real estate developers “didn’t lose anything they care about,” and they got even more breaks, like a shorter depreciation schedule in the Senate tax bill, Mr. Holtz-Eakin pointed out...

“Lower pass-through rates and the repeal of the alternative minimum tax — those two alone are so hugely beneficial to Trump that I have trouble imagining any way that he wouldn’t come out ahead,” said Steve Wamhoff, senior fellow for federal tax policy at the nonpartisan Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/business/trump-benefit-tax-cuts.html

     Ah, yes.  If I remember correctly, this was Trump lie #4059 of the 30,573 lies the Washington Post tallied while Trump was in office.  Lord knows what the figure is now.  

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

However, over 70 million people did vote for Trump.

So what, with all of those votes, Trump STILL lost.

 

However over 81 million voted for Joe Biden.

 

See how easy it is to make a post with no bias. That took me about 30 seconds on Google.

 

https://www.cfr.org/blog/2020-election-numbers

 

The Popular Vote

Biden won 81,283,098 votes, or 51.3 percent of the votes cast. He is the first U.S. presidential candidate to have won more than 80 million votes. Trump won 74,222,958 votes, or 46.8 percent of the votes cast. That’s more votes than any other presidential candidate has ever won, with the exception of Biden. (Third-party candidates picked up 1.8 percent of the votes cast.)