Lack of gratitude in a Thai relationship

[itsari]

Lack off should be no thanks at all . More you do the less respect is what  I have experienced .  But there is more joy in giving than receiving .

[Danderman123]

28 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I beg to differ, the Thai women in the massage shop I mentioned are all adamant they don't want a Thai male.

Of course, they could be just telling me what they think I want to hear. However, knowing their previous history, I don't think so.

The oldest woman there had an abusive Thai husband. When she was 30, he said she was not beautiful anymore, and left her, with a 5 yo daughter to support. I guess that would color one's outlook. She is quite envious of my GF.

“I not like Thai man” is one of the classic lies in Thailand.

[Lacessit]

22 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

“I not like Thai man” is one of the classic lies in Thailand.

Possibly so; however, the women have nothing to gain by lying to me.

[Danderman123]

21 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Possibly so; however, the women have nothing to gain by lying to me.

Strangely enough, I know quite a few older Thai ladies who constantly tell me they no like Thai man, but spend quite a bit of cash on Karaoke boys. One lady in particular is married to a German man, but spends so much money on her gik that her family complains.

 

I have to admit that one lady who told me she didn’t like Thai man wasn’t lying, as she goes with a Thai tomboy.

[robblok]

On 8/20/2022 at 7:17 AM, bkk6060 said:

How many times?

Sounds like in 10 years you have not learned how to properly evaluate a Thai female prior to living with them.

Complain, complain, complain maybe take a look at yourself and your relationship choices/decisions.

Or taking a hard look at himself. I mean he probably wants girls that expect more then he does. He finds he is offering enough for her and she does not. If that is the kind of relationship then take it or take a lil less pretty one that likes you more maybe closer to your age. Choice choices. I have no pitty with men like this. They make their own bed and lie in it. 

 

Like you said its all about the selection process and accepting you cant have it all.

[Danderman123]

30 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Possibly so; however, the women have nothing to gain by lying to me.

They are saving face.

 

Do you really expect them to say “God, I want a Thai man right now”?

[rumak]

Too many generalities and long winded posts....... but good for a Sunday morning read.

 

My generality is this :   When you are learning about life,  try to make small mistakes.  In other words,

don't JUMP into things , including relationships.     One can possibly then LEARN from their mistakes;

 

Many foreign men that come here are drawn by the sweet smile of a Thai temptress, like the Greek myth of "sirens", women who lured sailors to destruction by the sweetness of their song. (So, you see, this "scenario"  is not a novel one  ????)

 

The BIG problem comes when , through foolishness or hubris...... a foreigner jumps in and finds that they can not get out without losing an arm or a leg.     Start with dipping in a toe,  oh fellow love seekers.

[plus7]

12 hours ago, KIngsofisaan said:

I didn't choose a girl for her economic background. I choose a girl I wanted to be with. I did my part in getting her a western education and US citizenship. She is now on my level and can hold her own.

As far as status?
 

Kingofisan, thank you for explanation. Indeed, you invested much efforts and money. I regret that you're not completely satisfied with your relations.

For others who may feel the same like OP: ever considered Ukrainian/Russian wife ? They may be not that amusing like Thai women, but certainly looking for long term, serious relations.

 

[Brian Nose]

10 hours ago, KIngsofisaan said:

Look up the word scathing.

 

You obviously are overcome with jealousy and have no idea what it means

 

How is the lady boy search coming along?

Pretty scathing.

 

Still looking for a ladyboy. Why? Are you passable? 

[Gecko123]

@Lacessit

 

I have some comments I'd like to share about the 40-50 year old masseuses you spoke of earlier.

 

Many of them have or have had exposure to the sex industry, i.e., the occasion 'happy ending'. Some may have been former prostitutes who migrated into massage work as they got older. A large percentage of Thai men would view massage work as a highly undesirable occupation for their wife; the hanky-panky hazard is too high, and they'd endure endless ribbing from their buddies. So the idea that these women would "prefer" a foreign guy is a little bit ludicrous. The truth is that many of those women couldn't find a Thai guy to marry them for all the tea in China.

 

Of course a single 40-50 y/o woman without passive income (land, rental property, major savings) is probably going to be focused on financial security in her senior years, and will likely assume that most foreigners would have more income than the average farmer, day laborer, retiree. These older women are also past their child bearing years so many physical attraction or paternal considerations are less important. In my opinion, the interest level of a 40/50 year old woman in an older foreign man is pretty much based entirely on financial security rather than companionship and compatibility. Just consider the energy that needs to be expended to cross a language barrier at that age. I wouldn't put that much stock in casual overtures you might hear in a massage parlor setting. Many of these older women making overtures to foreign men are doing so for their idle amusement (often in front of other women), and if they ever happened to snag someone's interest, they wouldn't have the foggiest idea about how to be a foreign guy's wife.

 

But where my skepticism really kicks into overdrive is when I hear guys trying to claim that younger Thai woman in the 25-45 y/o range genuinely prefer older foreign men because they're more considerate, caring, dependable, and respectful husbands and fathers. When I hear foreign guys making these sweeping generalizations that Thai men are all lazy, alcoholics, yaa baa addicts and philanderers who abandon their wives at the drop of a hat, I really have to roll my eyes. You read that stereotype constantly on this forum, and in my opinion there's little truth to it. It's little more than a script that bar-girls are trained to deliver in order to gain sympathy and elicit a 'white knight' reaction from older foreign men. That's how the myth of the Thai male's undesirability as a mate has worked its way into the foreign male's psyche. The truth is that prior marriages of Thai women end just as often due to the misbehavior of the woman, i.e., gambling, incurring debts without the knowledge of the husband, untrustworthy behavior, infidelity, argumentativeness, laziness, or unrealistic demands about money, etc.

[Excel]

8 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

@Lacessit

 

I have some comments I'd like to share about the 40-50 year old masseuses you spoke of earlier.

 

Many of them have or have had exposure to the sex industry, i.e., the occasion 'happy ending'. Some may have been former prostitutes who migrated into massage work as they got older. A large percentage of Thai men would view massage work as a highly undesirable occupation for their wife; the hanky-panky hazard is too high, and they'd endure endless ribbing from their buddies. So the idea that these women would "prefer" a foreign guy is a little bit ludicrous. The truth is that many of those women couldn't find a Thai guy to marry them for all the tea in China.

 

Of course a single 40-50 y/o woman without passive income (land, rental property, major savings) is probably going to be focused on financial security in her senior years, and will likely assume that most foreigners would have more income than the average farmer, day laborer, retiree. These older women are also past their child bearing years so many physical attraction or paternal considerations are less important. In my opinion, the interest level of a 40/50 year old woman in an older foreign man is pretty much based entirely on financial security rather than companionship and compatibility. Just consider the energy that needs to be expended to cross a language barrier at that age. I wouldn't put that much stock in casual overtures you might hear in a massage parlor setting. Many of these older women making overtures to foreign men are doing so for their idle amusement (often in front of other women), and if they ever happened to snag someone's interest, they wouldn't have the foggiest idea about how to be a foreign guy's wife.

 

But where my skepticism really kicks into overdrive is when I hear guys trying to claim that younger Thai woman in the 25-45 y/o range genuinely prefer older foreign men because they're more considerate, caring, dependable, and respectful husbands and fathers. When I hear foreign guys making these sweeping generalizations that Thai men are all lazy, alcoholics, yaa baa addicts and philanderers who abandon their wives at the drop of a hat, I really have to roll my eyes. You read that stereotype constantly on this forum, and in my opinion there's little truth to it. It's little more than a script that bar-girls are trained to deliver in order to gain sympathy and elicit a 'white knight' reaction from older foreign men. That's how the myth of the Thai male's undesirability as a mate has worked its way into the foreign male's psyche. The truth is that prior marriages of Thai women end just as often due to the misbehavior of the woman, i.e., gambling, incurring debts without the knowledge of the husband, untrustworthy behavior, infidelity, argumentativeness, laziness, or unrealistic demands about money, etc.

That's the biggest load of BS so far today. Thai men are in the main dishonest and highly immoral and totally untrustworthy which is some of the reasons many Thai women despise them. Whilst it is their genetic misfortune a further reason is that many of them look pig ugly  which deters many a good looking women.  And finally the only reason Thai men sometimes do not like to partner with a Thai massage lady is that they lose face when their pal turns up the next day and explains that he had an excellent massage and loads of extras, of course from the lady that is fact the blokes partner.

Edited August 21, 2022 by Excel

[Gecko123]

What some posters seemingly forget when they thoughtlessly bash Thai men is that Thai men are the fathers, grandfathers, brothers, uncles, sons, grandsons, nephews, monks, village leaders, teachers, role models, and friends of the women they supposedly love. Good grief!

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Gecko123

[Excel]

7 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

What some posters seem to forget when they thoughtlessly bash Thai men is that Thai men are the fathers, grandfathers, brothers, uncles, sons,  grandsons, nephews, monks, village leaders, teachers, role models, etc. of the women they supposedly love. Good grief!

 

And what some forget also is that Thai men are usually the reason why women have to work so hard and their children have to resort to some less than wholesome activities simply due to lack of moral guidance, lack of family support and in general the knowledge that the males of Thailand are the one single reason it is so corrupt. Yeh great role models indeed, not.

[Lacessit]

12 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

@Lacessit

 

I have some comments I'd like to share about the 40-50 year old masseuses you spoke of earlier.

 

Many of them have or have had exposure to the sex industry, i.e., the occasion 'happy ending'. Some may have been former prostitutes who migrated into massage work as they got older. A large percentage of Thai men would view massage work as a highly undesirable occupation for their wife; the hanky-panky hazard is too high, and they'd endure endless ribbing from their buddies. So the idea that these women would "prefer" a foreign guy is a little bit ludicrous. The truth is that many of those women couldn't find a Thai guy to marry them for all the tea in China.

 

Of course a single 40-50 y/o woman without passive income (land, rental property, major savings) is probably going to be focused on financial security in her senior years, and will likely assume that most foreigners would have more income than the average farmer, day laborer, retiree. These older women are also past their child bearing years so many physical attraction or paternal considerations are less important. In my opinion, the interest level of a 40/50 year old woman in an older foreign man is pretty much based entirely on financial security rather than companionship and compatibility. Just consider the energy that needs to be expended to cross a language barrier at that age. I wouldn't put that much stock in casual overtures you might hear in a massage parlor setting. Many of these older women making overtures to foreign men are doing so for their idle amusement (often in front of other women), and if they ever happened to snag someone's interest, they wouldn't have the foggiest idea about how to be a foreign guy's wife.

 

But where my skepticism really kicks into overdrive is when I hear guys trying to claim that younger Thai woman in the 25-45 y/o range genuinely prefer older foreign men because they're more considerate, caring, dependable, and respectful husbands and fathers. When I hear foreign guys making these sweeping generalizations that Thai men are all lazy, alcoholics, yaa baa addicts and philanderers who abandon their wives at the drop of a hat, I really have to roll my eyes. You read that stereotype constantly on this forum, and in my opinion there's little truth to it. It's little more than a script that bar-girls are trained to deliver in order to gain sympathy and elicit a 'white knight' reaction from older foreign men. That's how the myth of the Thai male's undesirability as a mate has worked its way into the foreign male's psyche. The truth is that prior marriages of Thai women end just as often due to the misbehavior of the woman, i.e., gambling, incurring debts without the knowledge of the husband, untrustworthy behavior, infidelity, argumentativeness, laziness, or unrealistic demands about money, etc.

I would say I partially agree with you. It's a statement of the obvious older Thai women would be looking for financial security in their senior years. Anyone would.

 

If you object to the generalization Thai men are lazy and shiftless etc. , I can equally object to the same with Thai women.  Those that work in massage shops are not all former prostitutes. I do know one of the women that works in the massage shop I go to that does head off to a short-time hotel occasionally with a client afterwards, the rest

AFAIK are not on the game, or ever were because they are quite plain. I can also take you to a shop in Chiang Rai that the owner has plastered with signs stating no prostitution on these premises. IME, it's the massage shops that have good looking twenty-somethings that are providing extra services.

[hotandsticky]

3 minutes ago, Excel said:

And what some forget also is that Thai men are usually the reason why women have to work so hard and their children have to resort to some less than wholesome activities simply due to lack of moral guidance, lack of family support and in general the knowledge that the males of Thailand are the one single reason it is so corrupt. Yeh great role models indeed, not.

 

 

If my missus' family had relied on the men (1 father, 4 brothers) it would have been a complete disaster. The men were rarely sober enough to be lazy!!

 

5 of the 6 daughters brought home the bacon, 4 from the entertainment industry.

[Excel]

Just now, hotandsticky said:

 

 

If my missus' family had relied on the men (1 father, 4 brothers) it would have been a complete disaster. The men were rarely sober enough to be lazy!!

 

5 of the 6 daughters brought home the bacon, 4 from the entertainment industry.

And that is so often the case.

[Smithson]

It sounds like the OP is describing my relationship with my ex. The subject of working girls always comes up when relationships are discussed. Anyone who has spent time on the dating apps will see the questions are the same as those in a bar, with the most important being how long we've been here and whether we can speak Thai.

 

Similarly the good girls are also looking for a guy who can't speak Thai and hasn't been here long. I think this says a lot about the type of relationship they are looking for.

 

Sure there are exceptions, but if the girl speaks English she generally doesn't want a farang who can speak Thai.

 

Also as farang we don't have extended family, but the girls do, which in this culture doesn't help make the relationship equal.

 

Thais view all types of relationships different to farang. They don't seem big on cooperation or the idea that things can be win-win.

[plus7]

Guys,

To those of you say about Thai population as "shiftless, rarely sobber, ugly, lazy" .. maybe it is just environment ?

I mean, could you please specify the area where you live ? Maybe all clever and sobber workaholikers moved to Bangkok ?

Maybe the area around you is somewhat recreational that doesn't attract intelligent workforce ?

[Excel]

Just now, plus7 said:

Guys,

To those of you say about Thai population as "shiftless, rarely sobber, ugly, lazy" .. maybe it is just environment ?

I mean, could you please specify the area where you live ? Maybe all clever and sobber workaholikers moved to Bangkok ?

Maybe the area around you is somewhat recreational that doesn't attract intelligent workforce ?

Who on this thread has said the Thai population are shiftless etc etc ? There are one or two who have stated that many Thai males fit that category but not in the same words.  That is why Thai women are portrayed in the main as the workers, but to state the "Thai population"  is somewhat of a major lateral imagination shift. Also you are aware that there are areas other than Bangkok that provide employment opportunities do you or is it the case you just live there so only have a limited horizon ?

[Gecko123]

15 minutes ago, plus7 said:

Guys,

To those of you say about Thai population as "shiftless, rarely sober, ugly, lazy"

6 minutes ago, Excel said:

Who on this thread has said the Thai population are shiftless etc etc ?

1 hour ago, Excel said:

Thai men are in the main dishonest and highly immoral and totally untrustworthy which is some of the reasons many Thai women despise them. Whilst it is their genetic misfortune a further reason is that many of them look pig ugly  which deters many a good looking women.

 

[plus7]

17 minutes ago, Excel said:

opportunities do you or is it the case you just live there so only have a limited horizon ?

Excel, yes, maybe I have limited horizon, as I don't have relations with Thai women or friendship with Thai men.

That's why I try to find the answer why ppl in this topic have different and sometimes opposite opinion.

If you don't like Bangkok example, insert other city that you like, I hope you didn't expect that I will browse and compare job offers advertising.

Edited August 21, 2022 by plus7

[Gecko123]

16 minutes ago, plus7 said:

Excel, yes, maybe I have limited horizon, as I don't have relations with Thai women or friendship with Thai men.

That's why I try to find the answer why ppl in this topic have different and sometimes opposite opinion.

If you don't like Bangkok example, insert other city that you like, I hope you didn't expect that I will browse and compare job offers advertising.

In my experience it is absolute NOT a geographic variable. It is entirely a mindset problem with foreign men who (a) have never gotten to know any Thai men on anything even remotely resembling friendship, (2) cannot speak the Thai language (which further inhibits relationship building with Thai males because many Thai males cannot speak English), and (3)  use Thai male bashing to psychologically rationalize and justify sex tourism and age-inappropriate and imbalanced quid pro quo relationships with Thai women. Boom! There it is!

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by Gecko123

[1FinickyOne]

On 8/20/2022 at 7:30 AM, CharlieH said:

I think its important not to assume people behave in a certain way,

Saying thank you is assumed.. not spoken. My wife spent some time in USA and figured out that our custom was to say 'thank you' and it became natural for her and she will still frequently say 'thank you so much' - -

 

when I help out the family, I can definitely see the appreciation in her parent's and sister w/o them saying 'thank you' in words. 

 

OP - to get upset that the customs here aren't the same would be like a Thai going to USA and thinking how rude everyone is because they don't wai at appropriate times... living in another culture means that things will not be done in the same manner as back home. 

 

There was a poster here some years ago who thought that people were rude for asking - pie nai - where are you going?  which is just a way of saying hello - much as we say 'How are you?' as hello and don't expect a medical report. 

 

 

[Excel]

29 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

 

So again I shall ask where did I say the Thai population ?? or do you have reading difficulties ?

[Excel]

26 minutes ago, plus7 said:

Excel, yes, maybe I have limited horizon, as I don't have relations with Thai women or friendship with Thai men.

That's why I try to find the answer why ppl in this topic have different and sometimes opposite opinion.

If you don't like Bangkok example, insert other city that you like, I hope you didn't expect that I will browse and compare job offers advertising.

So if you do not have relationships with Thai women then you certainly would not know as to whether they do ( Thais ), or do not, lack gratitude in a relationship as simply you have no knowledge of such and hence can not possibly answer the question one way or the other.

[Nickelbeer]

Gratitude is a western concept that does not really apply in Thailand. You are only as good as what you can BUY!!!!   The more you internalize this truth, the better off you will be.

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

A large percentage of Thai men would view massage work as a highly undesirable occupation for their wife;

I think males everywhere are uncomfortable with the picture in their mind of their wife at work touching and massaging another male. 

 

Even at temple massage, where it is done in a communal room, no chance for hanky panky,  you will find that most of the ladies are divorced and single. 

[1FinickyOne]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I beg to differ, the Thai women in the massage shop I mentioned are all adamant they don't want a Thai male.

Of course, they could be just telling me what they think I want to hear. However, knowing their previous history, I don't think so.

The oldest woman there had an abusive Thai husband. When she was 30, he said she was not beautiful anymore, and left her, with a 5 yo daughter to support. I guess that would color one's outlook. She is quite envious of my GF.

Yeah, that may be it - huh? and you like hearing it... 

[1FinickyOne]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Possibly so; however, the women have nothing to gain by lying to me.

a tip for just a few words... sure they have something to gain... especially when they sense the insecure man who is very gullible when complimented.

[1FinickyOne]

On 8/20/2022 at 12:03 PM, Gecko123 said:

I was going to say that I have a theory that fear of indebtedness may be behind some Thai people's reluctance to express gratitude.

Yes, this also seems to be everywhere - if you praise your spouse, you are relinquishing a certain amount of "hand" as in having the upper hand in future decisions. 

 

In my family and in the village, almost all the relationships are long lasting.