Kids left on school vans: New RTP chief orders a crackdown

[Bangkok Barry]

7 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

All these School run Minivans usually have a Teacher or helper riding Shotgun.

HELLO !

15 kids get in and 15 should get out.

It doent get any more simple than that.

You missed this bit

One teacher was driving and another seated in the furthest back row was looking after the children.

In Thailand it clearly makes no difference if you have what you suggest or not. It requires said Shotgun to be able to count, which is obviously asking too much.

[SmartyMarty]

Start with real education followed by enforcement and proper penalties.

[djayz]

RIP little boy. 

Way too young to die. 

[daejung]

9 hours ago, Peabody said:

7 year old doesn't know how to open a car door? Fishy?

 

I thought the same thing

[peter zwart]

8 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

All these School run Minivans usually have a Teacher or helper riding Shotgun.

HELLO !

15 kids get in and 15 should get out.

It doent get any more simple than that.

That sounds like math. Could be a bit of a problem here ????

[Knocker33]

9 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

There was some talk the other day of "nicknames" when the new blokes appointment was announced.

 

Let's get away from the "Big ......" tradition, it is so passe don't you think?

 

My vote goes for "Sticky Bun"!

 

And let's hope some coherent plan results to ensure these tragedies don't happy again.

 

Over to you "Sticky Bun" - surprise us...

One more donut 

[BangkokReady]

9 hours ago, Peabody said:

7 year old doesn't know how to open a car door? Fishy?

It's happened before.  Kid falls asleep then never wakes up.

[paulikens]

don't know how anyone can believe its a simple case of she got trapped in the van and died. that doesn't add up.   but we will never know the truth, as people will be paying their way out of it.

Edited September 1, 2022 by paulikens

[ikke1959]

2 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

So your anecdotal information is proof that every 7 year old can get out of a parked or locked Van ?

 

My Son is 8... If he were locked in our car I’m not sure he would know how to get out. 

 

There is a ‘flip switch’ on the door handle but I’m not sure if he knows about it - its not something we’ve ever discussed - the child lock is engaged on the side he sits/ 

 

Would he know how to get out of a parked Van with locked ??? I’m really not sure. 

do vans have child locks to prevent children from opening the door while the van is in motion ?

 

I’m not sure if a child would know where to find the lock, or to climb into the front seat and try and find those locks. I’m not sure he’d think to hit the horn, would the horn even work if the van is locked and powered off ?

 

He wouldn’t have the strength to smash the windows...   I’m not sure if the windows of the van slide open (some are locked and can’t). 

 

Lots of question... but the assumption that any 7 year old can get out of a locked van is flawed, the reality is probably that some could, some couldn’t.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My comment you don't like but yours is also so so.. you don't know..... so why comment on me?

[ikke1959]

3 hours ago, transam said:

Kiddy locks, it was a school ride, kids all clamber out, then automatically check for anyone left behind, don't think so...

Open electric windows when the ignition is off, don't think so...

A 7 year old whose family may not have a car knows all about car operation, don't think so.....????

Never seen a school van ???

[The Hammer2021]

Counting heads is pretty  basic  but very important

[bstafford214]

10 hours ago, Peabody said:

7 year old doesn't know how to open a car door? Fishy?

 

I don't understand your comment. You do know kids fall asleep riding and unfortunately nobody woke up the child. The drivers need to check the bus before they leave and lock someone in. Rest in peace for this child and an unfortunate preventable fatal accident and lack of safety.

[khaowong1]

9 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

All these School run Minivans usually have a Teacher or helper riding Shotgun.

HELLO !

15 kids get in and 15 should get out.

It doent get any more simple than that.

Exactly.. Someone had their head up their ass.  Get off you iPhones and pay attention.  How damn hard is it to walk through and check to see if all have got off?  

[MrJ2U]

11 hours ago, Peabody said:

7 year old doesn't know how to open a car door? Fishy?

 

I mentioned that to my wife.

 

Unless she was mentally challenged it doesn't make sense.  

 

Poor girl. 

[Reigntax]

13 hours ago, Peabody said:

7 year old doesn't know how to open a car door? Fishy?

 

That’s taught in next years class. The lack of ability to problem solve starts early.

sad but true!!

[AsianAtHeart]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

My Son is 8... If he were locked in our car I’m not sure he would know how to get out. 

 

There is a ‘flip switch’ on the door handle but I’m not sure if he knows about it - its not something we’ve ever discussed - the child lock is engaged on the side he sits/ 

 

Would he know how to get out of a parked Van with locked ??? I’m really not sure. 

do vans have child locks to prevent children from opening the door while the van is in motion ?

 

I’m not sure if a child would know where to find the lock, or to climb into the front seat and try and find those locks. I’m not sure he’d think to hit the horn, would the horn even work if the van is locked and powered off ?

 

He wouldn’t have the strength to smash the windows...   I’m not sure if the windows of the van slide open (some are locked and can’t). 

 

Lots of question... but the assumption that any 7 year old can get out of a locked van is flawed, the reality is probably that some could, some couldn’t.

Most of the school vans that I have observed have unopenable windows--the glass is solid and does not slide nor is it hinged.  The exception would be the front windows, such as where the driver sits.  But who has a crank-style opener for a car window these days?  Electric windows only open when the key is in and turned at least to the "accessories" position.

 

So we can likely rule out the windows being opened.  And those front windows would have been rolled all the way up this time of year in case of a downpour.  Were it not the rainy season, some might leave them open a crack to keep the interior a little cooler.

 

If the child-safety locks were engaged, as would be likely with a school vehicle if it had them, the main doors would not have been openable from the inside--again with the sole exception of the front doors.  If the front doors had a locking mechanism that made it difficult to unlock from the inside--and I have had a car like this before where the lever was almost completely socketed in its sheath leaving virtually nothing to grip by which to raise it--these doors may have been too much for the child to open.

 

And, as you point out, the horn may not have worked.  Some vehicles don't engage the horn when the ignition switch is off, and some vehicles may have simply disabled it entirely for other reasons.

 

5 hours ago, tandor said:

...ok..why didn't the teacher in the rear seat instruct all the children to get off first?

6 hours ago, newnative said:

The teacher in the back should have been the last person off the van, not the first, and only after checking the van was empty and all the students had exited.

It is possible that, owing to the childrens' sizes and their backpacks, etc. that they carried, they would have preferred being helped down from the van.  A van tends to ride higher off the road surface than a car, and it can be quite a step.  The teacher may have exited first in order to help the students out.

 

7 hours ago, Classic Ray said:

Also, why did no one notice the absence of the child from class? Don’t they tick a register, and make enquiries with the staff and parents if someone is absent?

I suggested probable reasons for this in the earlier thread.

And here...

7 hours ago, Xonax said:

How difficult would it be to install emergency buttons in all school-vans, connected to a horn that will make a noise, if anyone press the button?

The problem with installing emergency buttons is that students might enjoy using them as a prank, when no emergency existed.  It would not be desirable to have such sounds emanating from the vehicle as it traveled through the town.

 

8 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

And.. IF the doors and windows were locked, how does a 7 year old get out ???

How do the doors of the van unlock from the inside? I don’t know. 

Good questions.  I don't know, either.  But one thing is certain, egress for safety reasons does not seem prioritized in Thailand.  Have you ever seen a building with an exit door equipped with a crash bar in Thailand?  You know, the kind of door that may not even have a handle on the outside, but is easily opened from the inside just by running into/ramming the door?  That's what the Mountain B venue needed.  A couple or more doors like that added to it for egress could have prevented the fatalities.  And these vans need an emergency exit--maybe out the back or up on the top even, as some American vans or buses would have.

 

9 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

I don't believe they forgot the kid.. She was old enough to try to get out the car by opening a door or a window. besides what happened with her friends she is travelling with every day. They don't tell to come out ??? 

Friends at that age are much more egocentric, psychologically, and less likely to be mindful of a classmate.  Perhaps she did try to get out, but couldn't manage to do so.

 

10 hours ago, webfact said:

He said school vans should not have dark films or curtains and children should be taught to honk the car horn in emergencies. He added school children should be trained to respond to similar scenarios.

One problem with this approach is that if the child had, say, fallen asleep, and had his or her seatbelt securely fastened (which they are now pushing for as well), by the time the child had awakened, he or she might have been affected by the heat already to the point where the child was unable to think clearly or act properly to remove the seatbelt--the first step toward reaching the front of the vehicle.  Heat makes me drowsy, and, had it been me, I might not have awakened very soon at all.

[starky]

16 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

All these School run Minivans usually have a Teacher or helper riding Shotgun.

HELLO !

15 kids get in and 15 should get out.

It doent get any more simple than that.

Has happened tragically too often in many countries. Drivers and teachers should 100% be held accountable. In Australia for example the average is 1 a month for the past 5 years... .

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/may/29/one-child-a-month-left-on-a-bus-across-australia-over-the-past-five-years#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16620604794217&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

Edited September 1, 2022 by starky

[starky]

7 hours ago, paulikens said:

don't know how anyone can believe its a simple case of she got trapped in the van and died. that doesn't add up.   but we will never know the truth, as people will be paying their way out of it.

Yes cos that never happens

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/may/29/one-child-a-month-left-on-a-bus-across-australia-over-the-past-five-years#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16620604794217&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

 

https://www.wrtv.com/news/call-6-investigators/at-least-221-students-have-been-left-on-indiana-school-buses-since-2009-but-2018-was-the-worst-year

Edited September 1, 2022 by starky

[starky]

8 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

You missed this bit

One teacher was driving and another seated in the furthest back row was looking after the children.

In Thailand it clearly makes no difference if you have what you suggest or not. It requires said Shotgun to be able to count, which is obviously asking too much.

More needless Thai bashing...just a few of the multiple examples.

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/may/29/one-child-a-month-left-on-a-bus-across-australia-over-the-past-five-years#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16620604794217&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

 

https://eu.delawareonline.com/story/news/2019/01/24/several-children-left-alone-u-s-school-buses-past-year/2666835002/

 

https://www.wrtv.com/news/call-6-investigators/at-least-221-students-have-been-left-on-indiana-school-buses-since-2009-but-2018-was-the-worst-year

Edited September 1, 2022 by starky

[starky]

11 hours ago, Ginner said:

I don't understand how this could happen. At schools I have worked at in the past, ALL the vans never stayed on site, the drivers would drop the kids off and then leave to come back at 3pm or 4pm to pick the kid up. Something not right.

 

 

Yes it must be a conspiracy this NEVER happens

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/may/29/one-child-a-month-left-on-a-bus-across-australia-over-the-past-five-years#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16620604794217&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

 

https://www.wrtv.com/news/call-6-investigators/at-least-221-students-have-been-left-on-indiana-school-buses-since-2009-but-2018-was-the-worst-year

Edited September 1, 2022 by starky

[kiwikeith]

16 hours ago, PremiumLane said:

What if it is an old van that doesn't allow for opening from the inside? 

 

Vans that carry students should have this feature, plus seatbelts, plus proper seating etc, etc., but yeah, we know TIT

Why would the child be left in the van when a teacher was looking after the occupants? 

Something very wrong here, perhaps a DNA test might reveal more 

[hotchilli]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

Following the death of a young child in Chonburi who it appears was somehow left all day on a school van the man who will become the new Royal Thai Police chief at the end of this month has done what the RTP always do after a tragedy.

As they do after every tragedy... a crackdown, then nothing until the next one.

Never a lesson learnt.

[Bangkok Barry]

4 hours ago, starky said:

More needless Thai bashing...just a few of the multiple examples.

https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/may/29/one-child-a-month-left-on-a-bus-across-australia-over-the-past-five-years#amp_tf=From %1%24s&aoh=16620604794217&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com

 

https://eu.delawareonline.com/story/news/2019/01/24/several-children-left-alone-u-s-school-buses-past-year/2666835002/

 

https://www.wrtv.com/news/call-6-investigators/at-least-221-students-have-been-left-on-indiana-school-buses-since-2009-but-2018-was-the-worst-year

Thanks for your pointless research. Pointless, as this is a forum about Thailand and that this problem happened in Thailand - again. No-one at all has suggested that it only happens in Thailand. It isn't 'Thai-bashing'. It's a news item raised originally by Thai media for Thai citizens, and it quite rightly points out a flaw in the system - again - which resulted in a death - again. But you seem to have a problem with it being revealed and discussed. I have no idea why you invented the idea that we are saying in only happens in Thailand.

Edited September 1, 2022 by Bangkok Barry

[ikke1959]

7 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Most of the school vans that I have observed have unopenable windows--the glass is solid and does not slide nor is it hinged.  The exception would be the front windows, such as where the driver sits.  But who has a crank-style opener for a car window these days?  Electric windows only open when the key is in and turned at least to the "accessories" position.

 

So we can likely rule out the windows being opened.  And those front windows would have been rolled all the way up this time of year in case of a downpour.  Were it not the rainy season, some might leave them open a crack to keep the interior a little cooler.

 

If the child-safety locks were engaged, as would be likely with a school vehicle if it had them, the main doors would not have been openable from the inside--again with the sole exception of the front doors.  If the front doors had a locking mechanism that made it difficult to unlock from the inside--and I have had a car like this before where the lever was almost completely socketed in its sheath leaving virtually nothing to grip by which to raise it--these doors may have been too much for the child to open.

 

And, as you point out, the horn may not have worked.  Some vehicles don't engage the horn when the ignition switch is off, and some vehicles may have simply disabled it entirely for other reasons.

 

It is possible that, owing to the childrens' sizes and their backpacks, etc. that they carried, they would have preferred being helped down from the van.  A van tends to ride higher off the road surface than a car, and it can be quite a step.  The teacher may have exited first in order to help the students out.

 

I suggested probable reasons for this in the earlier thread.

And here...

The problem with installing emergency buttons is that students might enjoy using them as a prank, when no emergency existed.  It would not be desirable to have such sounds emanating from the vehicle as it traveled through the town.

 

Good questions.  I don't know, either.  But one thing is certain, egress for safety reasons does not seem prioritized in Thailand.  Have you ever seen a building with an exit door equipped with a crash bar in Thailand?  You know, the kind of door that may not even have a handle on the outside, but is easily opened from the inside just by running into/ramming the door?  That's what the Mountain B venue needed.  A couple or more doors like that added to it for egress could have prevented the fatalities.  And these vans need an emergency exit--maybe out the back or up on the top even, as some American vans or buses would have.

 

Friends at that age are much more egocentric, psychologically, and less likely to be mindful of a classmate.  Perhaps she did try to get out, but couldn't manage to do so.

 

One problem with this approach is that if the child had, say, fallen asleep, and had his or her seatbelt securely fastened (which they are now pushing for as well), by the time the child had awakened, he or she might have been affected by the heat already to the point where the child was unable to think clearly or act properly to remove the seatbelt--the first step toward reaching the front of the vehicle.  Heat makes me drowsy, and, had it been me, I might not have awakened very soon at all.

I see a lot of other vans than you describe in my place....

[jacko45k]

21 hours ago, Peabody said:

7 year old doesn't know how to open a car door? Fishy?

 

As discussed, is there  feature to prevent this?...... I often see the driver has to get out to open the door when a van drops off kids at a neighbours. 

[tandor]

8 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Most of the school vans that I have observed have unopenable windows--the glass is solid and does not slide nor is it hinged.  The exception would be the front windows, such as where the driver sits.  But who has a crank-style opener for a car window these days?  Electric windows only open when the key is in and turned at least to the "accessories" position.

 

So we can likely rule out the windows being opened.  And those front windows would have been rolled all the way up this time of year in case of a downpour.  Were it not the rainy season, some might leave them open a crack to keep the interior a little cooler.

 

If the child-safety locks were engaged, as would be likely with a school vehicle if it had them, the main doors would not have been openable from the inside--again with the sole exception of the front doors.  If the front doors had a locking mechanism that made it difficult to unlock from the inside--and I have had a car like this before where the lever was almost completely socketed in its sheath leaving virtually nothing to grip by which to raise it--these doors may have been too much for the child to open.

 

And, as you point out, the horn may not have worked.  Some vehicles don't engage the horn when the ignition switch is off, and some vehicles may have simply disabled it entirely for other reasons.

 

It is possible that, owing to the childrens' sizes and their backpacks, etc. that they carried, they would have preferred being helped down from the van.  A van tends to ride higher off the road surface than a car, and it can be quite a step.  The teacher may have exited first in order to help the students out.

 

I suggested probable reasons for this in the earlier thread.

And here...

The problem with installing emergency buttons is that students might enjoy using them as a prank, when no emergency existed.  It would not be desirable to have such sounds emanating from the vehicle as it traveled through the town.

 

Good questions.  I don't know, either.  But one thing is certain, egress for safety reasons does not seem prioritized in Thailand.  Have you ever seen a building with an exit door equipped with a crash bar in Thailand?  You know, the kind of door that may not even have a handle on the outside, but is easily opened from the inside just by running into/ramming the door?  That's what the Mountain B venue needed.  A couple or more doors like that added to it for egress could have prevented the fatalities.  And these vans need an emergency exit--maybe out the back or up on the top even, as some American vans or buses would have.

 

Friends at that age are much more egocentric, psychologically, and less likely to be mindful of a classmate.  Perhaps she did try to get out, but couldn't manage to do so.

 

One problem with this approach is that if the child had, say, fallen asleep, and had his or her seatbelt securely fastened (which they are now pushing for as well), by the time the child had awakened, he or she might have been affected by the heat already to the point where the child was unable to think clearly or act properly to remove the seatbelt--the first step toward reaching the front of the vehicle.  Heat makes me drowsy, and, had it been me, I might not have awakened very soon at all.

...no excuse...the driver was at the front to help[ them alight..he remained there until the teacher told him to park the van.

 

[starky]

1 hour ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Thanks for your pointless research. Pointless, as this is a forum about Thailand and that this problem happened in Thailand - again. No-one at all has suggested that it only happens in Thailand. It isn't 'Thai-bashing'. It's a news item raised originally by Thai media for Thai citizens, and it quite rightly points out a flaw in the system - again - which resulted in a death - again. But you seem to have a problem with it being revealed and discussed. I have no idea why you invented the idea that we are saying in only happens in Thailand.

Well illustrating the point that it happens quite frequently elsewhere in the world, a lot more than people realise, I don't find pointless at all its a fxxn tragedy.

  I have no problem at all. Nor with it being revealed nor discussed. I didn't say the thread was Thai bashing I said you are. And who is we? Are you non-binary? ????????????

Your words not mine

"In Thailand it clearly makes no difference if you have what you suggest or not. It requires said Shotgun to be able to count, which is obviously asking too much."

or were you suggesting that its not just in Thailand it clearly makes no difference? And that the ability to count is a problem elsewhere in the world? It's a problem everywhere whether you, or is it we?, consider it pointless or not. 

Edited September 2, 2022 by starky

[AsianAtHeart]

1 hour ago, ikke1959 said:

I see a lot of other vans than you describe in my place....

In some localities, the vans displaying the orange "rot rongrien" (school vehicle) sign in their back window may actually be privately owned, and the owners have a contractual agreement to work with the school.  (Note that the sign is not permanent.)  I don't see that kind here where I am, but I have seen them in some other places.  Those vans usually do have windows that can open, as they are standard vans, typical for private use.  With the sign there, one would think it was a school vehicle, and I remember my surprise when I learned otherwise.  Might it be those you see where you are?

 

That kind of "rot rongrien" doesn't usually stay parked at the school.  The driver will take it back home and wait for the next run.

[transam]

13 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Never seen a school van ???

Many, a "van" has doors, yes/no...????

[cnx355]

Like many countries the bus drivers are required by law to inspect the inside of his bus or minivan before locking the vehicle. A log book should be in the vehicule and must be signed with date and time by the driver.

 

It should be stated in the law that if a child die the driver will be held responsible in criminal court. 

 

School should be responsible to hire proper driver with valid driving license or if private owner should be able to check the driver and that the vehicle is in good mechanical order.

 

Sadly when the next child die maybe someone in Government will act on making required laws and regulation.