THE WEEK THAT WAS Anyone for Venice? It’s that time when Thailand - Bangkok in particular - might disappear altogether

[webfact]

 

OPINION | by Rooster

 

An English idiom from the last century is “Anyone for tennis?” - a phrase used to invoke the stereotypical laziness of shallow upper class toffs who only had time for games on their immaculate lawns. It was also the title of a song by the British rock band Cream.

 

However, this week in Bangkok as the heavens opened morning, noon and night Rooster was a million miles from getting out his battered rackets and having a rubber.

 

It felt more like ”Anyone for Venice?”

 

Krung Thep was famous for being called the Venice of the East - less for its charm and more for its propensity to slip below filthy floodwaters. Pictures from the middle of the last century recall a bygone era. 

 

 

But this week it was the future of the Thai capital that came into sharp focus. A well known scientist and climate change expert from Kaset - whose daily reports from the “2011 Great Flood” were called a “Horror Show” by The Nation - told us to expect the worst.

 

Prof Seri Supharathit said that 11 years on there was a very real possibility of a 2022 repeat with heavy rain and many storms expected from September to November. 

 

He warned, citing international studies, that by 2100 the city will disappear unless the Thai government does something.

 

 

Something except bicker among themselves about their future ignoring the plight of the capital’s residents and millions of others who depend on Bangkok’s GDP generation. 

 

He warned of much of the central region going under water for ever unless drastic action is taken. This includes building sea defences from Pattaya to Cha-Am creating a Gulf Lake of fresh water that will radically alter tourism and industry. 

 

Will the Thai government heed his warnings and start planning like Japan, South Korea and the Netherlands. 

 

Dream on. The chance of Thais listening to foreign expertise - something they ignored from the Dutch in 2011 - is close to zero.

 

 

They are more likely to wait until Bangkok disappears before blaming foreign over-consumption for global warming while praising their own “sethakit phor phiang” (the economy of enough). 

 

Forward planning and listening to foreigners are generally not Thai traits. Scurrying after disaster and blaming Johnny Westerner are preferred ’sports’.

 

They’ll probably have to relocate Bangkok in boatloads - then carry the bricks of Government House up to the top of Khao Yai on mules. 

 

 

Bangkok and its surrounding areas have suffered floods since the year dot. In more modern history and just before Rooster took up residence came the floods of 1983 when 55 died and 200,000 homes in the eastern suburbs were damaged. 

 

In 1995 from October to November came the worst flood in downtown areas in history. The water was 2.27 meters deep in places. Some 420 lives were lost across 73 of the then 76 provinces. 

 

At this time of the year Rooster always remembers two events - a deluge in 1986 and the events of 2011. 

 

On May 6th 1986 the most rain in recorded history was dumped on the capital in seven hours overnight.

 

The next morning myself and a pal and a girlfriend had been due to go to Koh Samet. We resolutely stuck to our plan wading through waist deep waters to Ekkamai bus station. Forget a taxi.

 

We saw one cab disgorge its passengers only for the water from a passing bus to fill it almost to the brim! People were eating noodles with waves lapping their knees. The Bangkok Post had pictures of people fishing in Rama IV after fish got out of Lumpini Park!

 

We made it to Ban Phe where we had to persuade a fisherman to take us across. We so nearly capsized, but were “buoyed” by consuming a neat bottle of Mekong. 

 

Ten students died between the mainland and the island in two separate drowning incidents that day. 

 

 

The floods in Bangkok that time soon subsided but the same could not be said of 2011. The floodwaters that hit Bangkok on that occasion were runoff from dams, klong and fields further north.

 

Like a reminder of Doctor Who episodes from my youth about foam seeping through the London Underground, the rain water came not from the sky but gurgled up via the drains.

 

On site teachers at my school in Don Muang - closed for three months until January 2012 - needed kayaks to get about the campus. Within a day in October from a trickle to a torrent the whole area was submerged. 

 

My area in Ratchayothin followed in November. Off work and with lovely blue skies above the soi filled up one day and for five weeks we were marooned - thankfully 12 floors up. Maybe in 2100 we’ll still be ok…maybe.

 

On school jobs I made it to Sukhumvit after wading down the soi and boarding the #39 bus that was still running. The flood only went as far as the first tunnel on Ratchadapisek inbound. The authorities had saved the central business area at the expense of the suburbs and places like Pathum Thani where my first wife had been living for two months already on the top floor of her house.

 

Myself and the second Mrs Rooster decided to pay her a visit. There had always been acrimony to go with the alimony since our break-up and I persuaded the new Mrs Rooster that it was time to bury the hatchet, not in our heads.

 

 

After a long roundabout journey by car in December we arrived at the housing estate in Sam Khok appropriate called The Lagoon.

 

There we switched to rowboat and rowed ourselves two kilometers to the house where Mrs R1 was living on the top floor with newborn cats and a dog. 

 

What followed was one of the most memorable days of our lives. The wives ate together and found common interests - food, not me. I rowed them about the tree tops with both complaining about my lack of skills with an oar. 

 

There have been ups and downs since but I credit the flood with marking a watershed, pun intended, in our amicable lives and that of our children.

 

Sometimes good comes out of a disaster. 

 

The January/February cleanup was a big operation and the 6,000 baht government handout got me a new fridge - whoopy do!

 

 

You can still see some marks ten feet up - a reminder that it’ll probably happen again. 2022? We’ll see.

 

A story the next day on ASEAN NOW suggested that satellite data from GISTDA (the Thai space agency) showed that flooding in 2011 was three times worse than now. But much depends on what happens up to November, according to the experts. 

 

Another major story this week came from Daily News who remembered that today, September 3rd marks the anniversary of the death of sergeant Wichian Klanpraset of the Thong Lo police.

 

Red Bull Boss - who gallivants the globe smirking about the effectiveness of Thai justice - ended his life in a gray Ferrari, dragging him all around Sukhumvit Road while high on coke. 

 

 

The Boss story guarantees clicks for ASEAN NOW. It even guarantees clicks on other crime stories when poorer miscreants are arrested along the lines of “If you can get them, why not the Red Bull guy?”

 

Boss is a click-a-thon that keeps giving.

 

The fugitive was allowed to pay off the cop’s family and escape. A face-saving and pointless Red Notice sits gathering dust on some Interpol shelf. The RTP are waiting until the last statute of limitations on reckless driving causing death runs out in 5 years.

 

A few low hanging fruit might be convicted in the cover ups and corruption mess that is the whole case but no one of serious rank will do time. The RTP has no appetite and politicians are too scared of the police. Pathetic really.

 

It all means a guilty rich guy goes free, and the stereotypical poor mushroom pickers of Thailand do 20 years. 

 

That - despite the towering edifice of the Ministry of Justice building on Chaeng Wattana - is Thai justice. 

 

Pretending to get tough with the RTP this week was Prawit, Big Pom (who is not an Englishman living in Oz but admittedly is as fat as many Australians).

 

 

Rooster went to town on the story about him “wagging his finger” getting away with “other orders on Prawit’s watch” and being well known for a “penchant for overindulgence in a culinary capacity”. (Thanks folks for the 60+ laughing emojis - it helps one get through the translation day!). 

 

Echoing pal Prayut’s belligerent style, he barked “no more corruption, no more back handers, no more favors, no more bribes…or else.”

 

Or else the RTP would investigate their own men and decide there was no case to answer and everyone could go back to the station for some tea (money).

 

The RTP are more like the MIB (Mafia in Brown) and Prawit has no chance in reining them in. None. 

 

 

Also in Bangkok (sorry to the country bumpkins that this week’s column is almost completely about the land of the living) it was announced that taxi drivers are jubilant that fares will soon be allowed to rise for the first time in 8 years. 

 

I happen to agree, but hopefully the fines for refusing passengers will increase too. 

 

 

In international news former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev died aged 91. Mr Gorbachev had a great press in the West for his “glasnost and perestroika” policies but was widely vilified at home. But he will go down in history as a man who helped end the Cold War peacefully and was the winner of a Nobel Peace Prize. 

 

 

 

Climate change also featured in a story on the BBC about English people growing exotic plants outdoors. They listed “watermelon, figs and avocados”. Now to hunt for some water from the standpipes. 

 

 

In lighter news a statistician suggested that it could cost around 833 quid to fill in the latest Panini sticker book if you wanted to collect all 670 shiny cards for this year’s World Cup. This was based on the cost of a packet of five being 90 pence rather than the 20p of some years ago…. and the odds of the time it will likely take. 

 

 

Rooster still has the 1970 “Soccer Stars” album that is full with names like Bobby Moore and Martin Peters…and Pele. I wonder how much the cards cost then - certainly not four shillings!

 

Back in Thailand the weather theme had got the week off to a very menacing start. On Monday just after daybreak the Bangkok sky turned an extraordinary and menacing black that startled many residents. The storm lacked bite when push came to shove and soon dissipated but respected Marine Biologist Dr Thon said on Facebook that this was a clear sign of “extreme weather” and was a result of more vapor coming off warming seas.

 

 

The moderators had a busy morning clearing out the assorted climate change deniers who really need to go and find a large rock to crawl under. Take a wetsuit and an umbrella just in case.

 

While there is still some debate about the extent of climate change, the effect that mankind has had on the planet is undeniable as much as the moon landing, roundness of earth or the Holocaust.

 

Holocaust deniers are rightfully jailed in many societies. Climate deniers need to be hounded, banned and where that is not possible, ignored. The science is overwhelming; every one of us must mend our overconsumption ways and press our elected representatives to act and rein in the corporations who continue to destroy our planet for their own profits. 

 

In my view it is probably almost too late but every little helps. Localized climate related conflicts have already begun. Before my young children are in their dotage world wars will be fought over the issue as land for the poorer nations is gobbled up, migration become worse than today and rich nations head for the cooler hills. I’m almost completely pessimistic for the future and am trying to make up for the bad choices I’ve made in the past. 

 

I’m now an unofficial member of Sweden’s “flygskam” (flight shame), refuse all manner of plastic and boycott products that use it, recycle everything I can and pedal or walk to places. It’s not much but it’s a start.

 

Bangkok’s governor Chadchart - who generally is not doing a bad job since his landslide victory - appeared in Saudi garb as the rapprochement from the Blue Diamond Affair gathered pace.

 

 

I remember when I stole the bedsheet from the residencia in Bilbao and went to the England vs Kuwait group match at the 1982 World Cup dressed as an Arab.

 

Yes, sir, I looked like a stupid idiot too. 

 

A grim story was brewing in Chonburi that may prove even worse than leaving a child to bake all day in a locked school van. The mother of the dead 7 year old - her only daughter - thought that the child was killed then left in the van to cover the crime. 

 

I chastised my editor for sending me such horror to translate, I have six and nine year old daughters who I cherish far more than my own life. 

 

 

There should be twenty year sentences for negligence if that proves to be the case. If worse, then life without parole.

 

And by the way parents, don’t think that leaving a child in a car is something that couldn't happen to you. It happens all around the world with parents leaving their own kids in car seats being distracted by this and that. Be vigilant with your kids at all times. I nearly lost one in a pool accident last year and the memory of that will haunt me to my dying day.

 

Finally the new RTP chief has been confirmed. Police General Damrongsak Kittipraphat will replace the retiring Pol Gen Suwat Chaengyodsuk on September 30th.

 

 

Still in charge of traffic, Damrongsak ordered a crackdown after the school van death. 

 

He’ll be the 13th National Police Chief.

 

Predictable crackdowns and the number 13.

 

Methinks, that does not bode well.

 

Rooster

 

 

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[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, webfact said:

He warned of much of the central region going under water for ever unless drastic action is taken. This includes building sea defences from Pattaya to Cha-Am creating a Gulf Lake of fresh water that will radically alter tourism and industry. 

 

Will the Thai government heed his warnings and start planning like Japan, South Korea and the Netherlands. 

They have heeded the warnings, the very reason all the overhead cables have not been buried.

[OneMoreFarang]

Maybe we should have a survey how many people are fed-up with all these stories about Bangkok sinking and flooding.

Floodings streets were a lot worse in the past. The situation continually improved over the last decades.

And yes, Bangkok is sinking. So what? Will anybody of us live long enough to actually have any problems with that? 

[MyFriend You]

Bangkok Sinking, New Orleans Sinking, Amsterdam Sinking..........yet all are still functioning quite well.    This too shall pass.

Peace

[itsari]

propensity?

Speak in a way most understand.

Otherwise I do not read further .

[topt]

15 minutes ago, itsari said:

propensity?

Speak in a way most understand.

Otherwise I do not read further .

or you could take the opportunity to learn some new words.............

[connda]

Bangkok has been flooding regularly during Rain Season for the last 15 years that I've been here.
Every year they pay lip service to remedying the problem.
Every year they do nothing to remedy the problem. 
Hence - continued flooding.  That's what you get by building a city on a swamp and then destroying the canals that funneled the water back to the river.  You can't cure stupid.

Edited September 3, 2022 by connda

[connda]

1 hour ago, TunnelRat69 said:

Bangkok Sinking, New Orleans Sinking, Amsterdam Sinking..........yet all are still functioning quite well.    This too shall pass.

Peace

Which is what happens when cities are built near, on, or below sea level. 

[sambum]

".................sorry to the country bumpkins that this week’s column is almost completely about the land of the living"

 

Did you write that on purpose?

[micmichd]

2 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

Bangkok Sinking, New Orleans Sinking, Amsterdam Sinking..........yet all are still functioning quite well.    This too shall pass.

Peace

Amsterdam has a very advanced machine-like pumping system, otherwise the city wouldn't exist. This system should be investigated and see if it could be implemented in Bangkok. 

[mrfill]

5 minutes ago, micmichd said:

Amsterdam has a very advanced machine-like pumping system, otherwise the city wouldn't exist. This system should be investigated and see if it could be implemented in Bangkok. 

Amsterdam has a modest river running through it - the Amstel - and flooding used to be because of North Sea surges. In the case of Bangkok, there is a huge river and the flooding is usually due to run off from the north and central parts of the country. I can't see how the Amsterdam solution would help.

The same problem exists in Vietnam with the Mekong delta and in Bangladesh with the 3 main rivers (the Ganges, Brahmaputra and Meghna).

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, connda said:

Which is what happens when cities are built near, on, or below sea level. 

I do not know what other outcome is expected when Bangkok is one metre above the Gulf of Thailand.

All it will take is a black swan event, such as the collapse of the Larsen Ice Shelf, for one metre above to become one metre below.

[StevieAus]

I have lived in the North of Chiang Mai Province for about eleven years and in the last couple of weeks saw flooding never experienced before.

It seems the water is now heading South a present from all of us country bumpkins.

[Stevemercer]

The RTP rotate their senior officers through the Chief of Police position for 2 years before they retire so as to boost their pensions.

 

Such a person is going to go with the flow, not make waves, not rock the boat or do anything provocative.

 

Under this sysyem of patronage nothing can ever change and the status quo will be maintained.

 

It's the same with all the Thai Government departments.

 

Change can only come from the top. If the RTP is corrupt it is because that's the way the senoir officers want it. The Police Commissioner is responsible and accountable for every corrupt practice by the rank and file under his command. By not doing anything he condones and supports it. By not calling the RTP into check, or making it accountable, the Thai government of the day condones the corruption (e.g. don't throw stones if you live in a glass house).

[Fallangpakwan]

I was living in Sukhumvit soi 20 around 1982/83 drove out one day and 2 guys were wind surfing on Skvt and on down to Asoke

[Reigntax]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I do not know what other outcome is expected when Bangkok is one metre above the Gulf of Thailand.

All it will take is a black swan event, such as the collapse of the Larsen Ice Shelf, for one metre above to become one metre below.

I’ve melting does not increase the volume of water even though about 10% remains above the water surface level.

this is another fallacy of the climate, instant but unqualified experts.

when water turns to ice it expands, hence becomes less dense, more buoyant and results in ice above the surface.

as it melts, it displaces exactly the same as the volume it previously did.

And that’s exactly why ice floats in water.

Fortunately, science is not a consensus of opinion of the masses. History has many examples.and that’s exactly why the climate experts don’t like open and free debates. Their agendas are shown mostly to be nothing more than political preferences and insufficient facts other than what has been manipulated.

remember the global cooling scare campaign of the 70’s?

Oil  will run out by the 90’s?

yes, all from the so called “experts”!!!

 

And yes Rooster, you’ve also been conned. But there is a difference between being and English and a Science teacher. Unless that science teacher also believes everything they are told to.

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by Reigntax

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, StevieAus said:

I have lived in the North of Chiang Mai Province for about eleven years and in the last couple of weeks saw flooding never experienced before.

It seems the water is now heading South a present from all of us country bumpkins.

The River Ping burst its banks in Chiang Mai around 2012 and much of the surrounding area of the city was under water, by about a meter and stretched all the way to the Loi Kroh boxing ring 

[fobuff]

hmmmm...  what is the  nickname of the new chief of police...

 

BIG  ???????

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, Reigntax said:

I’ve melting does not increase the volume of water even though about 10% remains above the water surface level.

this is another fallacy if the climate instant but unqualified experts.

when water turns to ice it expands, hence becomes less dense, more buoyant and results in ice above the surface.

as it melts, it displaces exactly the same as the volume it previously did.

And that’s exactly why ice floats in water.

Fortunately, science is not a consensus of opinion of the masses. History has many examples.and that’s exactly why the climate experts don’t like open and free debates. Their agendas are shown mostly to be nothing more than political preferences and insufficient facts other than what has been manipulated.

remember the global cooling scare campaign of the 70’s?

Oil  will run out by the 90’s?

yes, all from the so called “experts”!!!

 

What you say about ice is quite true. Unfortunately for your argument, most ice in Antarctica is land-based. The accepted calculation is if all the ice in Antarctica, Greenland etc. was to melt, sea levels would rise by 70 metres.

95% of scientists agree climate change and global warming are real. The 5% who don't are mostly linked to the fossil fuel industry, which has a vested interest in politicizing the issue with whatever venal politicians it can find. Which is probably the vast majority of them.

 

My standard approach with climate deniers is to ask them to explain the meaning of the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics, which applies to climate change, which applies to global warming. 99% of the time, I get blank looks.

I would then ask them to explain what albedo and clathrates are, and how they could trigger a black swan event. So far, I haven't got one person who had the foggiest clue what I am talking about.

 

You could go away and Google all the terms I have used. However, knowing what they are and actually understanding what they mean are two different things.

 

Your post is a good example of a little knowledge being dangerous.

 

 

[itsari]

5 hours ago, topt said:

or you could take the opportunity to learn some new words.............

Nobody in my circle would understand the word.If I did use the word most I know would ask if I am ok

[Orinoco]

16 minutes ago, fobuff said:

hmmmm...  what is the  nickname of the new chief of police...

 

BIG  ???????

Think it was Poo.

[moogradod]

7 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

Bangkok Sinking, New Orleans Sinking, Amsterdam Sinking..........yet all are still functioning quite well.    This too shall pass.

Peace

An oistrich sticking his head into water instead of sand.

 

By the way ever thought of islands in the sea (inhabited, some are even seperate countries) and not only cities ?

[moogradod]

11 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

..............................

And yes, Bangkok is sinking. So what? Will anybody of us live long enough to actually have any problems with that? 

I am already a grandfather. I would have no problem but maybe my descendants will ? Why always thinking only for yourself ?

[unblocktheplanet]

Those ent oars. They're my sisters...

 

(Been waiting to use that one a long time!)

[Reigntax]

On 9/3/2022 at 7:40 PM, Lacessit said:

What you say about ice is quite true. Unfortunately for your argument, most ice in Antarctica is land-based. The accepted calculation is if all the ice in Antarctica, Greenland etc. was to melt, sea levels would rise by 70 metres.

95% of scientists agree climate change and global warming are real. The 5% who don't are mostly linked to the fossil fuel industry, which has a vested interest in politicizing the issue with whatever venal politicians it can find. Which is probably the vast majority of them.

 

My standard approach with climate deniers is to ask them to explain the meaning of the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics, which applies to climate change, which applies to global warming. 99% of the time, I get blank looks.

I would then ask them to explain what albedo and clathrates are, and how they could trigger a black swan event. So far, I haven't got one person who had the foggiest clue what I am talking about.

 

You could go away and Google all the terms I have used. However, knowing what they are and actually understanding what they mean are two different things.

 

Your post is a good example of a little knowledge being dangerous.

 

 

Of course climate change is real. Nobody denies that. 
the argument is about what part is a natural frequency and what is contributed to mankind.

the argument is then “ what is the perfect temperature” and nobody knows.

 increased frequencies of storm Events etc somehow is proportional to the development of communication.

today we hear or read about everything instantly. 200 years ago it took 6 months to hear of an event on the other side of the world, if at all.

 As for your argument 95% of scientists believe….etc is irrelevant.

1% if correct scientists is better than 99% incorrect.

 

a few hundred years ago 99% of scientists believed the earth was flat, the earth was the centre of the universe and that evolution was false.

 

So much for the 99% of scientists!!!

 

in relation to your 70 m of sea level rise. Just consider for a minute what you are saying,

the area you state takes up what percentage of the earths surface? Less than 5 %, I don’t know. But if only 5 % it would have to be 1.4 kms high across the whole cross section and probably 30% more to allow for being less compacted.

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by onthedarkside
flame comments removed

[Reigntax]

Let’s put it another way.

Any person, let alone a scientist who states a position and theory without knowing and understanding every single variable is a fool.

Any scientist who thinks they know enough to develops such a theory is likewise.

Any scientist who thinks they even know 50% of the variables and knowledge of climate change can join this self proclaimed elite group.

Science can’t even predict the weather with any accuracy in the next 7 days and they have every instrument and measurement they should need. 
And they expect people to believe they can predict the future. It’s nothing more that guessing based on presumptions.

I wonder if they were held accountable for their predictions would they be so  forthcoming with their lies.

let’s get all Scientists to have professional indemnity insurance and then when the world follows their instructions and they are false, we will claim against them for losses.

other professions have to, why not scientists?

 

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by onthedarkside
unsourced and unsubstantiated claims removed

[OneMoreFarang]

40 minutes ago, moogradod said:

I am already a grandfather. I would have no problem but maybe my descendants will ? Why always thinking only for yourself ?

How much of what you imagined when you were a teenager actually happened?

I remember somewhere in the 70th when they told us soon all the oil reserves will be gone - to mention just one example.

 

Try to predict what will happen in 10 years. And then try 50 years.

There is just no point in trying to predict what might happen far away in the future. 

[Donga]

Holocaust deniers are rightfully jailed in many societies. Climate deniers need to be hounded, banned and where that is not possible, ignored. The science is overwhelming; every one of us must mend our overconsumption ways and press our elected representatives to act and rein in the corporations who continue to destroy our planet for their own profits. 

 

In my view it is probably almost too late but every little helps. Localized climate related conflicts have already begun. Before my young children are in their dotage world wars will be fought over the issue as land for the poorer nations is gobbled up, migration become worse than today and rich nations head for the cooler hills. I’m almost completely pessimistic for the future and am trying to make up for the bad choices I’ve made in the past. 

What a load of righteous, simplistic hooey. But if it works for you, peddle your hardest.

I'm not a CC denier (keen cyclist with 20 solar panels - know their limitations), there is too much evidence. But let's be smart about how we can mitigate.

Off the bat, that means media have to recognise the science is not settled on many levels, so they have to stop giving oxygen to the alarmist elements of the scientific community, where they compete for the scary stories. Media should dissect mainstream science more carefully.

A. UNIPCC and the international energy agencies all advocate nuclear energy as soon as possible - why doesn't mainstream media recognise this science? So cool to be green, even if dinosaur shade.

B. Renewable energy sources been given way too much credence - they must have reliable backup! Has been obvious for ages but again the debate wasn't properly aired, as invokes the denier tag, good grief.

Finally Europe and Japan have changed course to recognise what many scientists and modern environmentalists have been saying for years.

C. We cannot stop developing nations from using coal to improve their livelihoods, which will reduce population growth accordingly as more women enter the workforce.

There are 40 countries already where the population is stagnant or declining, usually advanced economies. In Thailand population growth is now around 0.2%. Recent objective forecasts indicate world population will peak around 2050 and fall from there simply because not every couple will be having two children. You don't hear much about this in mainstream media - fear sells so they ignore it.

So what are we left with?
1. Nuclear asap to replace coal and back-up renewable sources.
2. Electric public transport, scooters, bicycles. Reduce traffic in the cities but let's be sensible about expecting everyone to drive an electric vehicle. Way too many challenges, including sourcing the raw materials, charging stations where many people don't have garages, disposal of old batteries plus the range and grunt required for non city dwellers. 
3. Sensible policies to reduce plastics, by all means and good to see progress. All in favour of taking my plate to the outlet for serving. Ditto all the rubbish packaging in the supermarket aisles. That'll happen.
4. Heaps of technology to look forward to, but don't get too carried away as some will take ages to be effective, e.g. long term battery storage.

And leave the planes alone - they promote commerce and happiness!

Edited September 3, 2022 by Donga

[Lacessit]

On 9/3/2022 at 8:31 PM, Reigntax said:

Of course climate change is real. Nobody denies that. 
the argument is about what part in a natural frequency and what is contributed to mankind.

the argument is then “ what is the perfect temperature” and nobody knows.

 increased frequencies of storm Events etc somehow is proportional to the development of communication.

today we hear or read about everything instantly. 200 years ago it took 6 months to hear of an event on the other side of the world, if at all.

 As for your argument 95% of scientists believe….etc is irrelevant.

1% if correct scientists is better than 99% incorrect.

 

a few hundred years ago 99% of scientists believed the earth was flat, the earth was the centre of the universe and that evolution was false.

 

So much for the 99% of scientists!!!

 

in relation to your 70 m of sea level rise. Just consider for a minute what you are saying,

the area you state takes up what percentage of the earths surface? Less than 5 %, I don’t know. But if only 5 % it would have to be 1.4 kms high across the whole cross section and probably 30% more to allow for being less compacted.

 

 

It's generally agreed global warming is the result of anthropomorphic emissions of carbon dioxide. The trend upwards since the Industrial Revolution is unmistakable.

 

You can dismiss the statement 95% of scientists agree. That ignores the fact only 1% of the world's population has scientific training at the tertiary level. We have far more politicians and lawyers.

 

 

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How much of what you imagined when you were a teenager actually happened?

I remember somewhere in the 70th when they told us soon all the oil reserves will be gone - to mention just one example.

 

Try to predict what will happen in 10 years. And then try 50 years.

There is just no point in trying to predict what might happen far away in the future. 

Prediction of the future is based on models. They are only as good as the input data. When peak oil was talked about in the 70's, no-one knew the US was sitting on a bonanza of shale oil, or that Australia would become one of the world's biggest gas producers.

 

Focus on what is happening NOW, verified by measurement. The Larsen Ice Shelf is melting at unprecedented rates. Australia has had record interior heat cells over the past decade. Greenland has lost a significant amount of its ice cover. Iceland lost 7% of its glaciers in the last two decades. You think those trends are going to magically reverse?