Anyone know what the problem is with these trees and plants please

[brendan3150]

I moved into a property about 6 weeks ago . I haven’t been a gardener before so apologies in advance if I ask basic questions . 
 

In the first picture the leaves have been falling off at a very fast rate , about 20-30 a day , the foliage is definitely thinning  . It doesn’t seem right to me . The leaves don’t look healthy either . Would anyone have any idea if this is natural or is it I’ll ?

[brendan3150]

I think we also have an issue with these trees and plants 

[brendan3150]

[proton]

we have both leaf fall with the first is terrible, might chop it down, the palm trees are meant to lose branches as they get higher

[brendan3150]

thanks @proton

[MJCM]

I have no idea if it is related, but we have lots of trees / plants dying on us and that is because of the excessive rain fall we had in the last couple of weeks and thus insufficient drainage.

 

It is really making my wife (who is the gardener) upset!

[BritManToo]

@OP

Mould and fungus from the excessive rains.

[brendan3150]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

@OP

Mould and fungus from the excessive rains.

thanks @BritManToo

[AsianAtHeart]

Trees can die if their roots aren't properly aerated, such as during prolonged flooding.  I'm not sure if that is the issue here, though, or not.  Without a soil analysis, it would be difficult to know if there might be a mineral issue, but if the problem persists beyond the rainy season, you might look into getting the soil tested and/or researching soil amendments, particularly trace minerals like boron and copper--both of which will have an impact on algae and fungi in the soil as well.

 

If you're trying to go fully organic, there are such things as rock powders that can be used.  I like to put some large rocks in the (oversized) hole when I plant my trees to provide them some minerals.  But I see no harm in adding specific minerals as indicated by a proper soil analysis.  It costs something--depends on how much it's worth to you.

[Gecko123]

That's a li lao di tree (ต้นลีลาวดี). Totally normal for it to drop its leaves. Leaves drop here and there around the year but around once a year it loses all of its leaves before new growth starts again.  Absolutely no reason to panic or be alarmed.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Gecko123

[brendan3150]

thanks @AsianAtHeart and @Gecko123

 

hopefully it grows some new leaves . it doesn't look very healthy at the moment

[Gecko123]

2 hours ago, brendan3150 said:

I think we also have an issue with these trees and plants 

Top photo is maak luang (หมากเหลือง) yellow palm. Yellow color in older growth fairly normal, may yellow more than usual in rainy season or in strong sunlight.

 

Middle tree looks pretty normal and healthy.

 

Bottom tree does not look healthy to my eye.  The collapsed spines and browning  of lower fronds and the splayed and uneven height of top fronds make me think it may have a beetle infestation that may be in the process of killing the tree, but that's just a guess.

 

 

[brendan3150]

5 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Top photo is maak luang (หมากเหลือง) yellow palm. Yellow color in older growth fairly normal, may yellow more than usual in rainy season or in strong sunlight.

 

Middle tree looks pretty normal and healthy.

 

Bottom tree does not look healthy to my eye.  The collapsed spines and browning  of lower fronds and the splayed and uneven height of top fronds make me think it may have a beetle infestation that may be in the process of killing the tree, but that's just a guess.

 

 

is there a way i could check for the beetle infestation , and if it is beetles, is it treatable ?

[VinnieK]

Frangipani is notorious for fungal infestation

They get it even in the dry season in full sun exposure...albeit less so.

In the  rainy season and in the shade from surrounding trees or buildings they get way worse.

Not much to do abt it other than keep nearby trees pruned so as not to cast any shade on it.

[brendan3150]

10 minutes ago, VinnieK said:

Frangipani is notorious for fungal infestation

They get it even in the dry season in full sun exposure...albeit less so.

In the  rainy season and in the shade from surrounding trees or buildings they get way worse.

Not much to do abt it other than keep nearby trees pruned so as not to cast any shade on it.

thanks for the reply. will it recover ?

[stuarty]

2 hours ago, brendan3150 said:

is there a way i could check for the beetle infestation , and if it is beetles, is it treatable ?

Probably need to ask a landscaping expert.  In my condo grounds we had a similar issue with what looks like same kind of palm in same poor condition recently and confirmed to be beetle infestation and had to be felled and taken away.

[brendan3150]

8 minutes ago, stuarty said:

Probably need to ask a landscaping expert.  In my condo grounds we had a similar issue with what looks like same kind of palm in same poor condition recently and confirmed to be beetle infestation and had to be felled and taken away.

thanks @stuarty

[VinnieK]

29 minutes ago, brendan3150 said:

thanks for the reply. will it recover ?

They grow new leaves all the time but you have to address any 'shade' issues.

Tree won't die in any case..it just looks ugly with the fungus

[brendan3150]

7 minutes ago, VinnieK said:

They grow new leaves all the time but you have to address any 'shade' issues.

Tree won't die in any case..it just looks ugly with the fungus

thanks @VinnieK

[yankyoakum]

hydrogen peroxide diluted with water is stated to be helpful if root rot is a problem. lot of info on net about this...peroxide kills the bacteria around roots...

 

[thailand49]

13 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

That's a li lao di tree (ต้นลีลาวดี). Totally normal for it to drop its leaves. Leaves drop here and there around the year but around once a year it loses all of its leaves before new growth starts again.  Absolutely no reason to panic or be alarmed.

 

 

 

 

I agree I have a number from the original poster each day now I sweep they fall off Once or twice a year they bloom these white flowers that also drop all over the place.  I've never had to do anything like water it just doesn't die or need constant watering. It grows so much I have to cut branches when you do you will see the ants love these trees cut a branch will see full of water or juice. 

 

The other picture shown by other poster look like Bamboo what I see is normal they turn brown then come back nothing seems to dead at less from my experience. 

[seajae]

the spots on the branches is lichen, the yellow spots on the leaves is rust, the all yellow & brown is just from age & the sun, this happen a lot with frangipani/plumeria. I have several hundred growing here( I do a lot of cross pollination work to create new varieties, one of the reasons I moved to Thailand) and have the same thing, the hummidity in Thailand is the cause of rust & lichen, with more rain and heat it keeps happening. There are treatments but it is hard to control rust, lichen causes no damage  to the trees so its not really a problem, leaves start to yellow and get brown edges etc as they age and the trees are getting close to dormancy/their natural rest period, many of mine are currently doing th same thing, they will start clawing back up again(new leaves) before too long, its just a natural process they go through each year

Edited September 19, 2022 by seajae

[Denim]

Our Frangipani tree is the same. Caused by the excessive humidity right now. But Frangipani trees are very robust and will put out new leaves to replace those lost and continue doing so until the cool season improves the humidity levels.

 

Only thing you can do is collect up and dispose of the infected leaves asap to retard the growth of the fungal spores ( can't stop totally but helps a bit.)

[oldestswinger]

3 hours ago, thailand49 said:

li lao di tree (ต้นลีลาวดี)

Li la wa di

[placnx]

14 hours ago, stuarty said:

Probably need to ask a landscaping expert.  In my condo grounds we had a similar issue with what looks like same kind of palm in same poor condition recently and confirmed to be beetle infestation and had to be felled and taken away.

One of my palms, similar to the last of the photos, was attacked by beetles years ago but recovered. These days the problem is gray squirrels.. They nibble on the new fronds which eventually yellow and drop prematurely. They killed a half dozen coco palms in the neighbor's garden. Now only one is left. The chewing damage is quite distinctive. We trap the squirrels using banana as bait.

[StevieAus]

15 hours ago, brendan3150 said:

thanks for the reply. will it recover ?

Re the frangipani as the original poster said notorious for this type of infection I have given up trying to treat they will keep growing and flowering burn the leaves. 

[Tropposurfer]

If you're not a gardener then consider finding a good local one and have them cone help and teach you how to tend your garden.

Tropical gardening books abound so maybe consider using these 'bibles' to teach and guide you.

 

The Plumeria in your first photos may have a fungal disease known as Choleosporium.  Commonly known as Plumeria (Frangipani) Rust. Looks like it to me.

If this is what this is you need to use an anti-fungal spray.

Spray as much of the leaves (undersides especially - until wet) to 'drown' the spores, and to introduce a sufficient amount of the anti-fungal into the plants vascular system.

Spray early morning before the heat so the plant can drink up the liquid you spray.

• I used Neem plant anti-fungal (safe non toxic to us, pets, insects, birds).
• It usually only infests the leaves - the leaf underside will have patches or pustules of orange/reddish colour - these are the spores of the fungus.
• Its good to cut away the infected leaves bag -tightly, put in the garbage bin and get off your property.
• drench the plant - all leaves - top and underside, branches and trunk
• do a few times over the next months to make sure the spores are all killed.
• try to stop water splash for the ground up onto the trees as this is one major way the spores migrate.

On the Plumeria the yellowing and then dying off in spots or patches is the advanced stages of the fungus stopping the leaves from making chlorophyl. Then they die and drop off.

Its a common disease worldwide with Plumeria.

We had this and used Neem anti-fungal and it stopped it within a few weeks. Occasional applications for fungal diseases is a good idea in our really humid and monsoon climate - especially with latex sap plants because the anti-fungal has a hard time moving around the plants vascular system and often you won't eradicate the nasties entirely the first few times you dose the plant.

Drenching the leaves is really good but its easy to miss some - the fungus will do its best to survive.

 

Its difficult to tell from the photos of the other plants what is wrong. If you get a magnifying glass and inspect the underside of the leaves and the junction points of leaves to trunk and look for insect, mould, and fungal signals this will help diagnose problems.

Palms do shed leaves naturally. But if you're getting new juvenile leaves doing the same thing as dying old leaves then this indicated stress on the plant.

If the palms don't have mottled leaves where spotting and necrosis (dead spots) in lamina's (blades) is happening but just yellowing then feed them - gentle feeding will help! Don't 'man-feed' and kill them with an overdose!

 

Yellowing all over or to a large part of a palm where no disease seems to be present usually means the plant is nitrogen deficient - this will happen where you have poor sandy soils. 

If the plant is drowning - the dead tips will be soft, sometimes even gooey or slimy, but if they're dry and crumbly when you feel them then they're probably shedding leaves due to lack of water.

 

Get a Ph test kit and check the Ph of your soil to see whats what.

This will assist in deciding on any food (organic matter) or what types of mulch you add around the plants e.g manure based stable manures, straw, rice straw, home made compost etc.

 

If the soil is indeed just sand then consider tilling organic matter into this to a depth of no less than 300 mm a good bit deeper for trees and palms.

 

Sandy soils won't hold moisture or nutrients so introducing moisture holding organic material is crucial to healthy plants as is good drainage.

Sandy soil consists mainly of silica (glass) particles.

Here the sandy tropical soil has a fairly decent quantity of clay which is full of nutrients but without organic matter and the flora in the soil that this matter encourages and provides a home for them plants can't uptake the nutrients in clay.

 

Check things like:

•  soil type - do a squeeze test with a handful of soil, add some water to make it damp and squeeze it in the palm to make a sausage. If this sausage is formed and will bend its not bad if it fails to make a sausage then you gotta amend the soil.
• drainage - same as the drying out test and see if the hole has water in it and how long it takes to run away. Even here with heavy rain the ground ideally should not have water in the base of a hole at a spade depth for more than a few minutes.
• drying out time by digging a hole to a shovel-depth and seeing how wet the soil is at the bottom of the hole is a day after the rain has passed.
• If you have sandy soil then don't bother with this test as the answer will be obvious as to lack of moisture retention

Plants such as Ficus's, Eucalyptus, Melaleuca, Plumeria (frangipani) makes the soil hydrophobic - the sap coats the particles in the soil and the water simply sheds off and won't be absorbed by any organic matter present in the soil.

 

It looks from some of the photos the soils is grey sandy soil - yes??

If this is so you need to  introduce both organic matter and a wetting agent (water saving crystals) into the ground around the plants (not up against the stem!) to grow good plants.

These crystals are inert and safe for pets etc but will soak up, swell, and hold H2O slowly releasing it.

Sandy soils the H2O simply runs straight through.

There are liquid soil 'wetting agents' too that you simply attach to your hose or in a watering can.

Mulching with an organic mulch to help increase moisture and cool root run for the plants is always a good idea.

My place was typical tropical fine sandy with some clay, island-type soil. We added about 400 mm of composted organic matter with manures and wetting agents mixed across the entire plot except for the driveways and house slab areas.

I add compost all the time to the soil.

We mulch all the organic matter from the kitchen and gardens adding the grass clippings to this and occasional handfuls of blood and bone, and bags of manure to enrich the compost in the compost-bays we made.

[brendan3150]

thanks every one for all the replies , it is much appreciated

[xylophone]

5 hours ago, placnx said:

We trap the squirrels using banana as bait.

How do you cook them??

[DJ54]

Couldn’t tell if the same type of plant. If so certain times of the year all the leaves fall off. Two pictures taken today. You can break off a small branch and stick it in ground and if taken care 

you’ll have another tree. The small one is about 4-5 months old..