OTHERED: How racism, xenophobia and religious discrimination were woven into the fabric of the UK

[kwilco]

11 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That just doesn't make any logical sense .

If you accuse someone of being a racist, if they deny it.................that's evidence they are a racist .

   That is lefty logic .

that's actually not how it works - the cliche implies this happens a. lot - they think they keep  being accused all the time but it never occurs to them why. They miss the irony.

They also aren't very good at critical thinking.

in fact the process is continual

Blatant racism is easy to identify — a shouted racial slur, a white supremacist rally, or the open discrimination, segregation and violence of the pre-civil rights era.

 

It is more difficult to recognise in oneself such things as  microaggressions. They emerge in the everyday exchanges among friends and strangers alike and can offend racial and ethnic minorities.

Statements, uttered intentionally or inadvertently, draw upon stereotypes are often linked with racism and prejudice. this is what racist fail to realise.

If pointed out the usual response is denial - lets face it racist is the superlative of ignorant.

Edited October 15, 2022 by kwilco

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

that's actually not how it works - the cliche implies this happens a. lot - they think they keep  being accused all the time but it never occurs to them why. They miss the irony.

They also aren't very good at critical thinking.

There are some people who have the opinion that anyone who isn't a far leftie, then they are a racist .

   Like if a person has Conservative views or Right wing views , some people consider them to be racists and thus keeps accusing them of being a racist .

   Saying that though, some people on this forum are White supremacist racists and even Nigel Farage wouldn't share a platform with them 

[kwilco]

6 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

There are some people who have the opinion that anyone who isn't a far leftie, then they are a racist .

   Like if a person has Conservative views or Right wing views , some people consider them to be racists and thus keeps accusing them of being a racist .

   Saying that though, some people on this forum are White supremacist racists and even Nigel Farage wouldn't share a platform with them 

Racism love labels and stereotypes - this goes against critical thinking so to assume that someone is a racist by name only would not be good critical thinking.

However words and deeds can be evidential.

Racism is "learned" being a racism is a bit like being an alcoholic, there's nothing you can do about it  until your recognise you are one - and when it's pointed out to you, you spend a lot of time denying it or arguing against it.

 

Wil Self came out with a classic comment - which I'll paraphrase -

"Not all Brexiteers are racists, but all racists are Brexiteers" - you could probably say tat about Tries.

 

There are definite concrete signs that someone is racist - one of the most common is they deny it.

Edited October 15, 2022 by kwilco

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

There are definite concrete signs that someone is racist - one of the most common is they deny it.

If I deny being a alien lizard person, does that make me one?

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If I deny being a alien lizard person, does that make me one?

You don’t need to deny something that doesn’t exist.

 

And you certainly don’t need to deny anything unless the question arises.

[kwilco]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

If I deny being a alien lizard person, does that make me one?

THe fact you think that might be a relevant comment (reductio ad absurdum) would indicate you might have the mindset similar to a racist.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

We mentioned critical thinking earlier - you inability to devise a logical experiment just underlines your own inability to comprehend a reasoned argument. As you aren't capable of the argument and I obviously don't consider I need to argue - conclude.

I am just pointing out the flaws in your logic .

If you make an accusation and a person denies that accusation, that is proof of their guilt and if they don't deny the accusation, that is also again proof of their guilt .

    Can you spot that flaw in logic ?

[kwilco]

25 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I am just pointing out the flaws in your logic .

If you make an accusation and a person denies that accusation, that is proof of their guilt and if they don't deny the accusation, that is also again proof of their guilt .

    Can you spot that flaw in logic ?

no you're not - you just don't understand logic. - I'm using a logic to approach the premise as you presented it... but you are trying to use a false syllogism.

 

here's a litmus test for you........

 

"Racism is, according to dictionary terms, a belief in the superiority of some races over others; prejudice against or hatred of other races.

 

Blatant racism is easy to identify — a shouted racial slur, a white supremacist rally, or the open discrimination, segregation and violence of the pre-civil rights era.

Microaggressions, emerge in the everyday exchanges among friends and strangers alike and can offend racial and ethnic minorities.

 

Tropes and clichés used by racists …..

1.     Saying someone’s playing "the race card"

2.     Dismissing an individual who brings up race / culture in a discussion

3.     Use of the concept of “other” (we/them syndrome)

4.     Stereotyping of an entire nationality.

5.     “I married one, so I can’t be racist, can I?”

6.     Logical Fallacies: e.g. false authority- the use of “expert” – i.e. concentration on the messenger rather than the message.

7.     No true Scotsman – Stating that the arguer is wrong because they don’t not represent the argument e.g. You don’t live there or in Thailand)

8.     Conviction that personally they have superior abilities to the people they are criticising

9.     Over-use of the 3rd person plural pronouns and adjectives, (e.g. - them, they, their)

10.  “They” come over here….

11.  Sweeping subjective generalisations about nationality, creed, colour

12.  It’s a religion, so that’s not racist, is it?

13.  Incorrect use of the word "culture" – “It’s in their “culture”

14.  Failure to distinguish between prejudice, assumption or opinion and "fact"

15.  Spend a lot of time arguing something is not racist.

16.  “Some of my best friends are…..”

17.  “I’ve got nothing against them, but……..”

18.  “They come over here…”

19.  “Did you hear the one about?…….”

20.  “coloureds”

21.  “racialist” (as opposed to “racist”)

22.  “It’s PC gone mad!”

23.  “(They’re a)Dysfunctional race”

24.  “Some of them are racist too!”

25.  Racism is “natural”

26.  "ALL lives matter"

27.  “They’re great (any hobby or activity). . But they can’t (any hobby or activity)….”

28.  “A lot of minorities are too sensitive,” 

29.  Microaggressions, in the everyday exchanges = “Everyone can succeed in this society, if they work hard enough.” Where are you from?”

30.  Ad hominem Clichés – “snowflake” “greenie” “woke” “leftie”  - e.g. Using “woke” as a derogatory term

 

If you can tick any one of these, you are probably racist.

Edited October 16, 2022 by kwilco

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, kwilco said:

no you're not - you just don't understand logic. - I'm using a logic to approach the premise as you presented it... but you are trying to use a false syllogism.

 

here's a litmus test for you........

 

"Racism is, according to dictionary terms, a belief in the superiority of some races over others; prejudice against or hatred of other races.

 

Blatant racism is easy to identify — a shouted racial slur, a white supremacist rally, or the open discrimination, segregation and violence of the pre-civil rights era.

Microaggressions, emerge in the everyday exchanges among friends and strangers alike and can offend racial and ethnic minorities.

 

Tropes and clichés used by racists …..

1.     Saying someone’s playing "the race card"

2.     Dismissing an individual who brings up race / culture in a discussion

3.     Use of the concept of “other” (we/them syndrome)

4.     Stereotyping of an entire nationality.

5.     “I married one, so I can’t be racist, can I?”

6.     Logical Fallacies: e.g. false authority- the use of “expert” – i.e. concentration on the messenger rather than the message.

7.     No true Scotsman – Stating that the arguer is wrong because they don’t not represent the argument e.g. You don’t live there or in Thailand)

8.     Conviction that personally they have superior abilities to the people they are criticising

9.     Over-use of the 3rd person plural pronouns and adjectives, (e.g. - them, they, their)

10.  “They” come over here….

11.  Sweeping subjective generalisations about nationality, creed, colour

12.  It’s a religion, so that’s not racist, is it?

13.  Incorrect use of the word "culture" – “It’s in their “culture”

14.  Failure to distinguish between prejudice, assumption or opinion and "fact"

15.  Spend a lot of time arguing something is not racist.

16.  “Some of my best friends are…..”

17.  “I’ve got nothing against them, but……..”

18.  “They come over here…”

19.  “Did you hear the one about?…….”

20.  “coloureds”

21.  “racialist” (as opposed to “racist”)

22.  “It’s PC gone mad!”

23.  “(They’re a)Dysfunctional race”

24.  “Some of them are racist too!”

25.  Racism is “natural”

26.  "ALL lives matter"

27.  “They’re great (any hobby or activity). . But they can’t (any hobby or activity)….”

28.  “A lot of minorities are too sensitive,” 

29.  Microaggressions, in the everyday exchanges = “Everyone can succeed in this society, if they work hard enough.” Where are you from?”

30.  Ad hominem Clichés – “snowflake” “greenie” “woke” “leftie”  - e.g. Using “woke” as a derogatory term

 

If you can tick any one of these, you are probably racist.

I tick at least five of those boxes .

That makes me a racist then 

If I disagree with that , that will definitely make me a racist .

Are you a far right racist yourself ?

Could be on a recruiting mission ?

[kwilco]

20 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I tick at least five of those boxes .

That makes me a racist then 

If I disagree with that , that will definitely make me a racist .

Are you a far right racist yourself ?

Could be on a recruiting mission ?

Mick, have you noticed how much you are arguing about not being racist?

"[The lady] .......... doth protest too much, methinks" 

[Mac Mickmanus]

14 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Mick, have you noticed how much you are arguing about not being racist?

"[The lady] .......... doth protest too much, methinks" 

Odd, I have admitted that I must be a racist after you convinced me that I was and now you are saying that I am denying it !!!!!!!!

   This racism thing is well confusing 

[Rimmer]

Some baiting, troll and off topic post removed also replies

[Mac Mickmanus]

18 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Mick, have you noticed how much you are arguing about not being racist?

 

Have you noticed that you haven't denied being a racist ?

It has been suggested that you are a racist and you didn't deny that suggestion . 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

 

 

Tropes and clichés used by racists …..

 

16.  “Some of my best friends are…..”

 

 

If you can tick any one of these, you are probably racist.

I ticked box number 16 .

I do have non White friends and so that must mean that I am a racist .

   If I stop being on friendly terms with non White friends , like unfriend them , would I then qualify as not being a racist ?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

no you're not - you just don't understand logic. - I'm using a logic to approach the premise as you presented it... but you are trying to use a false syllogism.

 

here's a litmus test for you........

 

"Racism is, according to dictionary terms, a belief in the superiority of some races over others; prejudice against or hatred of other races.

 

Blatant racism is easy to identify — a shouted racial slur, a white supremacist rally, or the open discrimination, segregation and violence of the pre-civil rights era.

Microaggressions, emerge in the everyday exchanges among friends and strangers alike and can offend racial and ethnic minorities.

 

Tropes and clichés used by racists …..

1.     Saying someone’s playing "the race card"

2.     Dismissing an individual who brings up race / culture in a discussion

3.     Use of the concept of “other” (we/them syndrome)

4.     Stereotyping of an entire nationality.

5.     “I married one, so I can’t be racist, can I?”

6.     Logical Fallacies: e.g. false authority- the use of “expert” – i.e. concentration on the messenger rather than the message.

7.     No true Scotsman – Stating that the arguer is wrong because they don’t not represent the argument e.g. You don’t live there or in Thailand)

8.     Conviction that personally they have superior abilities to the people they are criticising

9.     Over-use of the 3rd person plural pronouns and adjectives, (e.g. - them, they, their)

10.  “They” come over here….

11.  Sweeping subjective generalisations about nationality, creed, colour

12.  It’s a religion, so that’s not racist, is it?

13.  Incorrect use of the word "culture" – “It’s in their “culture”

14.  Failure to distinguish between prejudice, assumption or opinion and "fact"

15.  Spend a lot of time arguing something is not racist.

16.  “Some of my best friends are…..”

17.  “I’ve got nothing against them, but……..”

18.  “They come over here…”

19.  “Did you hear the one about?…….”

20.  “coloureds”

21.  “racialist” (as opposed to “racist”)

22.  “It’s PC gone mad!”

23.  “(They’re a)Dysfunctional race”

24.  “Some of them are racist too!”

25.  Racism is “natural”

26.  "ALL lives matter"

27.  “They’re great (any hobby or activity). . But they can’t (any hobby or activity)….”

28.  “A lot of minorities are too sensitive,” 

29.  Microaggressions, in the everyday exchanges = “Everyone can succeed in this society, if they work hard enough.” Where are you from?”

30.  Ad hominem Clichés – “snowflake” “greenie” “woke” “leftie”  - e.g. Using “woke” as a derogatory term

 

If you can tick any one of these, you are probably racist.

Looks like you hit number 8 on the money so, by your own "logic", you must know what you are!

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I tick at least five of those boxes .

That makes me a racist then 

If I disagree with that , that will definitely make me a racist .

Are you a far right racist yourself ?

Could be on a recruiting mission ?

Has it occurred to you racism might exist on a spectrum from holding some racist views to being an outright raging racist?

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

 

 

Tropes and clichés used by racists …..

 

12.  It’s a religion, so that’s not racist, is it?

 

24.  “Some of them are racist too!”

 

I do need some clarification .

For example : A Black guy attacks an Orthodox Jew for the sole reason he has an agenda against Jews .

   That would be a racist attack ; If I state that the Black guy is racist , would that mean that I was racist ?

[Scott]

Continued bickering and baiting will result in suspensions.  

 

Keep it civil and on topic.  

 

 

[Credo]

 I haven't spent a lot of time in the UK, but I have worked with many UK nationals over the years.  I have found the country to be more classist than racist, but that's just an observation.  As for the many British people I know, they were no more or no less racist than anyone else.  

 

I think the problem with discussing racism is that most of us have prejudices against certain groups.  We may have grown up being told not to trust Catholics or Jews or Muslims.  On the basis of that, we may shy away from those groups.  Amongst the Brits I know, the only racist group I ever heard a fair amount of negative remarks was Pakistanis.  

People have the right to not like any group they don't like.  They don't have the right to harm others on the basis of race.  Most of us don't have that power.  Racism becomes a problem when it receives widespread support from others and when the government condones it.  

 

[roo860]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

no you're not - you just don't understand logic. - I'm using a logic to approach the premise as you presented it... but you are trying to use a false syllogism.

 

here's a litmus test for you........

 

"Racism is, according to dictionary terms, a belief in the superiority of some races over others; prejudice against or hatred of other races.

 

Blatant racism is easy to identify — a shouted racial slur, a white supremacist rally, or the open discrimination, segregation and violence of the pre-civil rights era.

Microaggressions, emerge in the everyday exchanges among friends and strangers alike and can offend racial and ethnic minorities.

 

Tropes and clichés used by racists …..

1.     Saying someone’s playing "the race card"

2.     Dismissing an individual who brings up race / culture in a discussion

3.     Use of the concept of “other” (we/them syndrome)

4.     Stereotyping of an entire nationality.

5.     “I married one, so I can’t be racist, can I?”

6.     Logical Fallacies: e.g. false authority- the use of “expert” – i.e. concentration on the messenger rather than the message.

7.     No true Scotsman – Stating that the arguer is wrong because they don’t not represent the argument e.g. You don’t live there or in Thailand)

8.     Conviction that personally they have superior abilities to the people they are criticising

9.     Over-use of the 3rd person plural pronouns and adjectives, (e.g. - them, they, their)

10.  “They” come over here….

11.  Sweeping subjective generalisations about nationality, creed, colour

12.  It’s a religion, so that’s not racist, is it?

13.  Incorrect use of the word "culture" – “It’s in their “culture”

14.  Failure to distinguish between prejudice, assumption or opinion and "fact"

15.  Spend a lot of time arguing something is not racist.

16.  “Some of my best friends are…..”

17.  “I’ve got nothing against them, but……..”

18.  “They come over here…”

19.  “Did you hear the one about?…….”

20.  “coloureds”

21.  “racialist” (as opposed to “racist”)

22.  “It’s PC gone mad!”

23.  “(They’re a)Dysfunctional race”

24.  “Some of them are racist too!”

25.  Racism is “natural”

26.  "ALL lives matter"

27.  “They’re great (any hobby or activity). . But they can’t (any hobby or activity)….”

28.  “A lot of minorities are too sensitive,” 

29.  Microaggressions, in the everyday exchanges = “Everyone can succeed in this society, if they work hard enough.” Where are you from?”

30.  Ad hominem Clichés – “snowflake” “greenie” “woke” “leftie”  - e.g. Using “woke” as a derogatory term

 

If you can tick any one of these, you are probably racist.

Full House!

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Has it occurred to you racism might exist on a spectrum from holding some racist views to being an outright raging racist?

 

 

It has been suggested that saying " I have an Asian friend" is actually being racist and also denying that you are racist is proof that you are racist .

   Going by the above list , everyone is racist .

Anyone who states that foreigners come from a different Country is a racist .

  Its similar to the old Nation Front guys trying to convince people they are racist and to join the N.F

[thaibeachlovers]

On 10/15/2022 at 2:42 PM, simple1 said:

Being a subject matter expert on asylum seeking you should know that those sent offshore by Oz government were put at risk as they were not welcomed by the locals. You can bet same will appl to Rwanda, especially given the current situation and recent history. How kindly stop wasting my time, as usual, with your iinformed comments. - no further reply.

Please put me on ignore so I don't offend you any more, as I shall not be amending my opinions to align with yours.

I do have to wonder why people read posters they don't like then complain about them on here- incapable of passing by perhaps, or looking to be offended?

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, kwilco said:

Blatant racism is easy to identify — a shouted racial slur, a white supremacist rally, or the open discrimination, segregation and violence of the pre-civil rights era.

Microaggressions, emerge in the everyday exchanges among friends and strangers alike and can offend racial and ethnic minorities.

You seem to be of the opinion that racism is a fault of white people by your examples refering to "white" rallies or American centric policies and "minorities". It's a fact that in my life, the most blatant racists have not been white people.

Edited October 16, 2022 by thaibeachlovers

[simple1]

26 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Please put me on ignore so I don't offend you any more, as I shall not be amending my opinions to align with yours.

I do have to wonder why people read posters they don't like then complain about them on here- incapable of passing by perhaps, or looking to be offended?

I don't put people on "ignore". You post comments, so can expect agreement or rejection. If you can't handle rejection of your illinformed commentary put me on ignore.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.  Continue and face a suspension.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It has been suggested that saying " I have an Asian friend" is actually being racist and also denying that you are racist is proof that you are racist .

   Going by the above list , everyone is racist .

Anyone who states that foreigners come from a different Country is a racist .

  Its similar to the old Nation Front guys trying to convince people they are racist and to join the N.F

This thread is focussed on how racism is woven into the fabric of the UK and many of the respondents are British or have experienced life in the UK.

 

Anyone who grew up in the UK in the period from the late forties through to the late 80s will have been introduced to racist views and thinking. Racism in the UK over that period was openly and often casually expressed.

 

Its a period during which overtly racist political organizations formed and were openly aligned with violent racist gangs.

 

Skinheads ‘bashing’ Pakistanis, racist violence at public events, racist chants at league football games, bananas thrown at Black sportsmen, Asian businesses targeted by racist gangs.

 

These are historical facts.

 

But there was also the less extreme but insidious casual racism, racist jokes told and laughed at, not just privately but in media too.

Racism was for decades an overt background in British society.

 

It is facile to deny this racism was real and that it has a lingering presence in the minds of people who grew up in the UK through those years.

 

So yes, everyone has some elements of racism in their thinking, some recognize this and deal with it, some deny it but it’s still there, and some nurture it, looking for any and every excuse to vent their hate on foreigners, migrants, refugees, asylum seekers .

 

Refer the pejorative views towards these groups by a small number of members in any and all threads that in anyway address these subjects. 
 

And if a thread isn’t about foreigners, migrants, refugees, asylum seekers, this same small numbers will frequently take the discussion off topic in an attempt to make it so.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Please put me on ignore so I don't offend you any more, as I shall not be amending my opinions to align with yours.

I do have to wonder why people read posters they don't like then complain about them on here- incapable of passing by perhaps, or looking to be offended?

Perhaps they feel offensive remarks on a public forum should be challenged.

 

 

[kwilco]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You seem to be of the opinion that racism is a fault of white people by your examples refering to "white" rallies or American centric policies and "minorities". It's a fact that in my life, the most blatant racists have not been white people.

As predicted...v #24.

[kwilco]

Racism, xenophobia and religious discrimination were woven into the fabric of the UK, and cultured and exploited to bring about Brexit

Now the UK has returned to being the pre-EU

sick man of Europe and is the laughing stock if the world.

The only people who like the UK are the currency speculators. 

Edited October 17, 2022 by kwilco

[RayC]

16 hours ago, roo860 said:

Full House!

B*"'er!!!

 

I've been waiting ages for numbers 12 and 25????