Rental Exit Strategy

[SenorTashi]

On 10/30/2022 at 5:04 PM, Onerak said:

I have breached many rental contract in my two decades living/travelling to Thailand. In all cases, I accepted the loss of deposit. Cleared all rents due. For electricity and water, I would estimate an average and pay it. Inform the landlord I am leaving and he can keep the deposit. Never had any problem. Except in one case when I had abscond without paying two months rent. That is another story for another day. 

I left a place in a different country. I wanted a monthly contract but they somehow convinced me to to sign a one year contract. Having rented properties and written contracts myself, I knew the translated contract I'd signed would never hold up in a court.

 

I was bored out of my mind living there and didn't want to spend another £1000 on rent just to live in a groundhog day situation. Didn't help my anxiety that the landlord was a cop or that the  the only way out of there was through their kitchen.

 

I spoke to a friend of mine (who's a total crook) and he said the contract was <deleted>, not to worry about it and just leave. So I paid the monthly rent and a week later packed up most of my stuff, told them I had to go away for a few days, left enough money to pay the bills, left about $100 worth of stuff, left a load of clothes hanging on chairs to make it look like I was coming back, smiled at his missus and left. I won't be going back to that country any time soon.

 

 

[JimTripper]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Have you cleared it with the owner ?

Does he know that you have left ?

How much was the monthly rent ?

Who the fuk cares. There were smells and bugs in there. Was that in the contract he signed?

 

Was it in the contract he had to let some scumbag come in and work when he is living there?

Did he get free rent for wasting him time while the unit is repaired? Is that his new job? 

 

Not in the contract.

Edited November 2, 2022 by JimTripper

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, JimTripper said:

Who the fuk cares. There were smells and bugs in there. Was that in the contract he signed?

Yes, he signed the contract and accepted the condo as it was ,

Seems like he tried to do it on the cheap , view online and move in straight away and avoid paying for a few nights in a hotel 

[Padthaigoong]

3 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, he signed the contract and accepted the condo as it was ,

Seems like he tried to do it on the cheap , view online and move in straight away and avoid paying for a few nights in a hotel 

Not true.

 

I stayed in a hotel but as I explained I was sick and not in a good frame of mind.

 

In any case for your information the contract you care so much about clearly stated if I was to breach the terms they can keep the deposit and repossess the property. The only " breach " was that I was leaving sooner than expected and therefore it was all done very amicably because I knew I would never get the deposit back from them and there was no point in creating a scene.

 

I do pity whoever goes in there next though and the irony of it was as I left they told me the price had now gone up 5k a month because it is high season.

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 hours ago, Padthaigoong said:

Not true.

 

I stayed in a hotel but as I explained I was sick and not in a good frame of mind.

 

In any case for your information the contract you care so much about clearly stated if I was to breach the terms they can keep the deposit and repossess the property. The only " breach " was that I was leaving sooner than expected and therefore it was all done very amicably because I knew I would never get the deposit back from them and there was no point in creating a scene.

 

I do pity whoever goes in there next though and the irony of it was as I left they told me the price had now gone up 5k a month because it is high season.

So if that's what the contract stated , then why did You come here asking what would happened and waste everyone's time ?

   You should have just read the contract first, before making a thread about it 

[Padthaigoong]

On 10/30/2022 at 5:39 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

Quite a few Landlords in the West would take legal action through the Courts to get the money they are owed, especially if the tenant was rich , just need to make a claim in the small claims Court and the tenant would end up with a CCJ in their name 

Have you ever been to Thailand ?

[Padthaigoong]

6 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

So if that's what the contract stated , then why did You come here asking what would happened and waste everyone's time ?

   You should have just read the contract first, before making a thread about it 

Have you ever been to Thailand ?

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, Padthaigoong said:

Have you ever been to Thailand ?

As you keep asking, I have been to Thailand , yes

[Padthaigoong]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

As you keep asking, I have been to Thailand , yes

How long was that for two weeks several years ago ?

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 minutes ago, Padthaigoong said:

How long was that for two weeks several years ago ?

No, I was in Thailand for 12 years and left this year , smarty pants 

[Padthaigoong]

20 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

No, I was in Thailand for 12 years and left this year , smarty pants 

And after 12 years living in Thailand you know nothing about rentals here because if you did you wouldn't have made any of the comments you did.

 

<removed>

[Dan O]

On 11/3/2022 at 12:56 AM, Padthaigoong said:

An ant infestation going into my clothes, the kitchen, the bathroom towels, my toiletries in the bedside drawer and a smell that wouldn't go away.

 

What they called a " City view " was the wall of an adjoining industrial type ventilation system and a derelict site used as a rubbish tip.

 

None of the lights worked, the engineer had to come and replace all the LED connectors and when he did so he covered my belongings with dust and grime

 

I felt tike a project manager for the first week, sorting out all the problems no one cared a sniff about to fix before I arrived.

 

The kettle leaked water so that if you were to turn it on I believe it was a life threatening electrical hazard.

 

There were no cups or kitchen utensils. In fact the only kitchen utensil I found was stuck in the aircon ventilator.

 

The whole place exuded " We couldnot give a deleted " and " F you we have your money "

 

To top it off the place had a smell like the sewer that wouldn't go away and I couldn't leave a day too soon despite any monetary loss.

 

I am very happy now in a nice hotel.

 

Lesson learned.

 

Sounds like you created this whole delima by not inspecting or even visiting the place before you rented it. Not a smart move on your part.

[smutcakes]

Dont like to agree with MM, but he is 100% right here. Legally speaking if you sign a 1 year contract you are legally obligated to pay for the year, unless there is express provision to the contrary in the agreement. Nearly all agreements say that you will lose deposit if you leave early and the losing the deposit does not prevent the landlord taking further action to enforce the agreement.

 

Whats the point in signing anything more than a month contract if you can just leave and forfeit the deposit. The whole premise of signing a longer contract is to give the landlord more secured long term income and in exchange for that security they will give you better rate. If you can just walk away from that contract it makes it completely meaningless.

 

Of course in reality whether a landlord would bother of going through the courts to pursue the remainder of the year rent is questionable but its certainly legally correct that you owe the monies for the duration of the lease, and walking away forfeiting the deposit does not change that.

[patman30]

you can give them 30 days notice and expect your deposit returned
and give yourself a headache when it is not
or
you can just leave whenever you want,
nothing needs to be said,
and you forfeit the deposit and remain headache and stress free.

[Mac Mickmanus]

20 hours ago, Padthaigoong said:

And after 12 years living in Thailand you know nothing about rentals here because if you did you wouldn't have made any of the comments you did.

 

I

I am calling you mistaken and wrong about your allegation 

[Padthaigoong]

34 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I am calling you mistaken and wrong about your allegation 

I have reasonable grounds to believe that is the case based on your ludicrous advice and I quote

 

" You signed a six month agreement , you will need to pay the rent for six months "

 

Patent nonsense and could only come from someone with little experience in Thailand unless you were deliberately attempting to be inflamatory as well.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, Padthaigoong said:

I have reasonable grounds to believe that is the case based on your ludicrous advice and I quote

 

" You signed a six month agreement , you will need to pay the rent for six months "

 

Patent nonsense and could only come from someone with little experience in Thailand unless you were deliberately attempting to be inflamatory as well.

If you sign a contract for something , you usually have to abide by the details of what you signed up for . After your initial post , you then went on to state clauses in the contract stating get out clauses .

  You should have stated in the O.P that your contract has get out clauses in it , because without the get out clause, you would be liable to paying for six months 

   You still have to abide by the details in the contract

  Are contracts in Thailand different to everywhere else in the World ?

[Padthaigoong]

4 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

If you sign a contract for something , you usually have to abide by the details of what you signed up for . After your initial post , you then went on to state clauses in the contract stating get out clauses .

  You should have stated in the O.P that your contract has get out clauses in it , because without the get out clause, you would be liable to paying for six months 

   You still have to abide by the details in the contract

  Are contracts in Thailand different to everywhere else in the World ?

I wasn't going to post the entire contract for you to peruse and give me your legal opinion.

 

Anyone who has spent any time here knows it is the norm except you it seems but I think you just like being awkward and difficult as opposed to most people on here who try to be helpful.

 

 <removed>

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 hours ago, Padthaigoong said:

I wasn't going to post the entire contract for you to peruse and give me your legal opinion.

 

Anyone who has spent any time here knows it is the norm except you it seems but I think you just like being awkward and difficult as opposed to most people on here who try to be helpful.

 

 

Well if you know it all, why are you making threads asking for advice ?

  Why not just read your tenancy agreement, see what it says and then speak with the condo owner and sort it our yourself ?

  Read what your contract says instead of asking me what you should do . 

  If you think that advice of "running away when the owner isn't looking " is good advice , well , take that advice and don't forget to post another thread if you get arrested at the airport upon departure .

  I am a landlord myself and really dislike some tenants 

[CharlieH]

Some posts edited to remove inflammatory content.

[BangkokHank]

On 10/29/2022 at 10:12 PM, Mac Mickmanus said:

What do you think signing an agreement means ?

Its a legal contact and you are required to abide by the contract 

No. That's what the security deposit is for. If he breaks the contract, he can lose the deposit. That's all.

[smutcakes]

On 11/4/2022 at 8:08 PM, BangkokHank said:

No. That's what the security deposit is for. If he breaks the contract, he can lose the deposit. That's all.

So why would any tenant or landlord anywhere in the World sign lease contracts more than the deposit amount if you can just walk away and forfeit the deposit?

 

Astounding to me how little basic knowledge about contracts there is on here.

 

If you sign a year lease with no provision to break that lease then you still owe the rental for the year. Walking away and losing your deposit has no baring on that and the landlord is able to take legal action to recover the remaining years rent. Whether a landlord can be bothered to do that is another matter.

[K2938]

38 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

So why would any tenant or landlord anywhere in the World sign lease contracts more than the deposit amount if you can just walk away and forfeit the deposit?

Depends on the specifics on the local legislation.  In many countries, there is legislation giving residential tenants the right to terminate the contract by giving a certain amount of notice even if the contract is entirely silent on this and in some others even if the contract says exactly the opposite.  So the question really is not what the situation is "anywhere in the world", but what the specific rules, regulations and court practices in Thailand are.  So that is really what would be useful to discuss here

[smutcakes]

1 minute ago, K2938 said:

Depends on the specifics on the local legislation.  In many countries, there is legislation giving residential tenants the right to terminate the contract by giving a certain amount of notice even if the contract is entirely silent on this and in some others even if the contract says exactly the opposite.  So the question really is not what the situation is "anywhere in the world", but what the specific rules, regulations and court practices in Thailand are.  So that is really what would be useful to discuss here

Sure there will be some deviations but a lease agreement is a binding document. If there is legislation you note above you would presume that is noted in the contract. Being able to just walk away from your deposit in Thailand does not void your rental obligations under that agreement unless there is a specific clause detailing that.

[Heng]

Just from my experience, as a landlord, I've yet to take anyone to court or even file a police report for tenants skipping out on the last month leaving me with only the deposit (as rent).   It's just something I file under a lack of manners, not something worth pursuing in practical terms.   

[smutcakes]

2 minutes ago, Heng said:

Just from my experience, as a landlord, I've yet to take anyone to court or even file a police report for tenants skipping out on the last month leaving me with only the deposit (as rent).   It's just something I file under a lack of manners, not something worth pursuing in practical terms.   

Sure.. most landlords wont do it as its generally more hassle than it is worth. Commercial landlords sure has hell would not let a tenant walk away just giving up the deposit.

[donx]

On 11/6/2022 at 1:27 AM, Heng said:

Just from my experience, as a landlord, I've yet to take anyone to court or even file a police report for tenants skipping out on the last month leaving me with only the deposit (as rent).   It's just something I file under a lack of manners, not something worth pursuing in practical terms.   

I can see your reasoning if they skipped out on the last month. Would you do the same if they skipped out after the first month on a 6 month or one year lease? I'm guessing it would depend upon how likely you are to find another tenant.

 

As for the OP, I understand the reasoning for leaving early based upon the conditions of the place he rented. Perhaps I would have done the same in his situation. Fortunately for me, I haven't had to rent anywhere since the mid-1990. I do remember back in the day in the US of A, I broke my lease and was obligated to pay for the remaining months on the lease unless the rental company was able to find another tenant quickly. Luckily another tenant was found and I was off the hook.

 

Yes, that wasn't Thailand and it was a long time ago. I read on this forum all the time about members not paying the last month's rent and expecting the security deposit to be forfeited.

[BangkokHank]

On 11/6/2022 at 12:33 PM, smutcakes said:

So why would any tenant or landlord anywhere in the World sign lease contracts more than the deposit amount if you can just walk away and forfeit the deposit?

 

Astounding to me how little basic knowledge about contracts there is on here.

 

If you sign a year lease with no provision to break that lease then you still owe the rental for the year. Walking away and losing your deposit has no baring on that and the landlord is able to take legal action to recover the remaining years rent. Whether a landlord can be bothered to do that is another matter.

I am about to renew the lease on my condo. Today I asked the building manager what would happen if I signed a three year lease and left after one year. She said I would lose my deposit. I asked if I would have to pay for the other two years of the lease. She just laughed and said of course not. I suspect that this is the norm in Thailand - and in the rest of the world. As I said, that's what security deposits are for. 

[Adumbration]

Back when I was a renter, I would always draft a new lease agreement myself.

 

I would always include a paragraph that stated that the Renter could, upon providing 4 weeks written notice in advance to the Owner, vacate the property without forfeiting the deposit.

 

I always draft the lease agreement in English and then get the Thai landlord to sign it.

 

I did this at least 6 times with different landlords and never had a single issue with any of them....signing the agreement...and on 3 occasions vacating the property before the end of the lease.

 

I also ensured that the lease term was always 3 years, combined with a 4 week notice in advance clause that puts you in a very powerful position.....security of tenure but with a rip cord if you need to get out quick.

 

I should also add that this was back in the days when I was in Phuket and it was absolutely buzzing with farangs.

 

Now most tourist spots are ghost towns so you should have absolutely no problems presenting a landlord with a lease drafted on your terms.  And don't forget that they WANT a farang tenant because they are much less trouble then the average Somchai who will be late with the rent, hammer nails into the newly cement rendered walls, and let their brats scribble all over the paintwork.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Adumbration

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, BangkokHank said:

I am about to renew the lease on my condo. Today I asked the building manager what would happen if I signed a three year lease and left after one year. She said I would lose my deposit. I asked if I would have to pay for the other two years of the lease. She just laughed and said of course not. I suspect that this is the norm in Thailand - and in the rest of the world. As I said, that's what security deposits are for. 

 

Its not , if you sign a tenancy agreement in the U.K. you are legally liable to pay the full amount for the stated tenancy agreement time

Both sides are legally  locked into that agreement  .

   The deposit is entirely a different matter , its money set aside to pay for any damages to the property and cannot be taken in lieu of any rent money not being paid .

   Do contracts in Thailand have no legal binding and no point in having them ? 

  Also, your three year contract in Thailand probably has a get out clause after one year