Convert O-A to O at Jomtien. MAJOR GLITCH

[Lichiyado]

Hi there,

 

TLDR:  My application for 90 day Non-O visa was rejected today due to my 800,000 THB not having seasoned in my bank for 2 months.

 

I thought I did everything right, detail oriented kinda guy I am. Left Thailand for Laos, had a smacking good time for a week, then returned to Thailand visa exempt. I hosed my (then) current Non O-A, by not having a reentry permit. By design.

 

Sorry to say, UbonJoe and DrJack54, your idea of NOT needing the money to be seasoned when first applying for the 90 Day Non-O visa didn't work out in my case. What did I miss? I wonder if I messed up somewhere, or missed a more current post or law. Your post was dated July 21, an aeon ago when it comes to immigration rules (titled: 'Conversion of 30 day visa exempt stamp to Non O and then retirement extension')

 

Nor does the documentation from immigration, link posted in the same article, say anything about needing to season your 800K.

 

Long story short, I got an extension on my 45 day visa exempt entry, but due to the timing of the deposit to my bank, I'll probably need to go back to Laos. Or argue with immigration. 555555

 

Oh, by the way, the 'officer' offered to make all my problems go away, by paying her a measly 22,000 THB. I use the word 'officer' loosely. More like an 'agent' IMO.

 

One more thing. I didn't know, because I'm a long-term renter, that if I leave the country, I have to do a new TM30, even if I reside at the same place. Got a 1600 baht fine for not doing that.

 

All in all, a great day at immigration. PFFFTTTHTTT.  One good thing to report. This is my first brain-freeze at Jomtien immigration in the 14 years I've lived here. Generally, I find their service and attitude professional and kind.

 

That's all to report for now. 

[scubascuba3]

Sounds like that was desk 7 Nazi Jomtien, she pushes people to agents

[steve187]

money does not have to season, so immigration is in the wrong, but you have to prove it came from abroad

[Lichiyado]

"Sounds like that was desk 7 Nazi Jomtien, she pushes people to agents"

 

You got it!!! I'm not alone!

Edited November 2, 2022 by Lichiyado

[Lichiyado]

1 minute ago, steve187 said:

money does not have to season, so immigration is in the wrong, but you have to prove it came from abroad

Had plenty of proof the moolah came from overseas. It was the 2 month seasoning that was the glitch.

 

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, Lichiyado said:

Had plenty of proof the moolah came from overseas. It was the 2 month seasoning that was the glitch.

 

They were certainly wrong. Which immigration office wanted the 2 months?

This the rules issued by immigration: https://www.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/9.FOR-RETIREMENT-PURPOSES-50-YEARS-OLD-NON-O.pdf

[Lichiyado]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They were certainly wrong. Which immigration office wanted the 2 months?

This the rules issued by immigration: https://www.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/9.FOR-RETIREMENT-PURPOSES-50-YEARS-OLD-NON-O.pdf

Hi Joe. Thanks for responding. This was Jomtien, desk 7. The immigration document link you posted above was the document I referred to in my OP. It says nothing about seasoning.

[DrJack54]

23 minutes ago, Lichiyado said:

Hi Joe. Thanks for responding. This was Jomtien, desk 7. The immigration document link you posted above was the document I referred to in my OP. It says nothing about seasoning.

This is one situation that i suggest you return to immigration and demand (in a nice way) to see supervisor.

Obviously print out the correct rules from ubonjoe link above. 

 

As we all know .... immigration has the whip hand.

Your fall back position would be to obey the masters and do another border run.

Keep in mind the day of application you need 15 days remaining on you permit. 

 

 

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by DrJack54

[Lichiyado]

10 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

This is one situation that i suggest you return to immigration and demand (in a nice way) to see supervisor.

Obviously print out the correct rules from ubonjoe link above. 

 

 

Oh my. I've read so many stories about the futility of doing battle with immigration that I'm reluctant. I'm usually a nice guy so asking to see a super in a nice way wouldn't be a problem. But oh my goodness, what am I getting myself into? Gives me the heebie-jeebies, but I'm nearly certain that I'm right (as are you and UbonJoe) about this. And I do so like to be right!!!

 

Just got your edit Jack. Thanks for responding. Yes, I know immi has the upper hand and I'm already gearing up for another week in Laos if necessary. Wouldn't be the worst thing that ever happened to me.

Your mention of the 15 days I've already incorporated into my overall scheme, but thanks for the reminder. 

Decisions, decisions....fight or retreat.  Hmmmm....

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Lichiyado

[scubascuba3]

4 minutes ago, Lichiyado said:

Oh my. I've read so many stories about the futility of doing battle with immigration that I'm reluctant. I'm usually a nice guy so asking to see a super in a nice way wouldn't be a problem. But oh my goodness, what am I getting myself into? Gives me the heebie-jeebies, but I'm nearly certain that I'm right (as are you and UbonJoe) about this. And I do so like to be right!!!

Somehow you need to go there when she's not there, she's in charge so maybe next layer up might be boss man. Maybe give it a few days and try again, hopefully she won't be there

Edited November 2, 2022 by scubascuba3

[DrJack54]

12 minutes ago, Lichiyado said:

Oh my. I've read so many stories about the futility of doing battle with immigration that I'm reluctant. I'm usually a nice guy so asking to see a super in a nice way wouldn't be a problem. But oh my goodness, what am I getting myself into? Gives me the heebie-jeebies, but I'm nearly certain that I'm right (as are you and UbonJoe) about this. And I do so like to be right!!!

Think you should give it a go. 

Reports such as yours I hate as the io is playing games.

Hard to imagine the io is not aware of correct requirements.

Just as you posted...I added to my previous post of doing another border bounce to season the funds.

Another option also very inconvenient would be to use agent with you having the funds for the non O.

Fortunately you have good agents in Pattaya. 

Maneerat Soi post office being one.

Another (ugly) option would be to apply in another immigration office.

 

CW for example but that's messy and would require TM30 (change of address) 

Edited November 2, 2022 by DrJack54

[Lichiyado]

10 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

Somehow you need to go there when she's not there, she's in charge so maybe next layer up might be boss man. Maybe give it a few days and try again, hopefully she won't be there

Still deciding how I want to handle this. But one good thing, I have a close friend who works as staff at Jomtien immi and he might be able to tell me when she's not working. I'll ask him about it. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Lichiyado]

8 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Think you should give it a go. 

Reports such as yours I hate as the io is playing games.

Hard to imagine the io is not aware of correct requirements.

Just as you posted...I added to my previous post of doing another border bounce to season the funds.

Another option also very inconvenient would be to use agent with you having the funds for the non O.

Fortunately you have good agents in Pattaya. 

Maneerat Soi post office being one.

Another (ugly) option would be to apply in another immigration office.

 

CW for example but that's messy and would require TM30 (change of address) 

Yeah, it irks me too. And if I'm being altruistic here, maybe if I do battle it'll help others with a similar issue. Or get me buried. Not sure. Can I sleep on it, please?  ????  PS Using Maneerat or going to CW is not an option. I'd rather to go back Laos.

[Onerak]

33 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

hopefully she won't be there

Where she would go? Hoping to quit her job?

[scubascuba3]

1 minute ago, Onerak said:

Where she would go? Hoping to quit her job?

day off? maybe works other office, she isn't always there

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, Lichiyado said:

PS Using Maneerat or going to CW is not an option. I'd rather to go back Laos.

You go to the embassy in Vientiane or the consulate in Savannakhet and apply for the non-o visa.

Maybe better than a border hop and then having to deal with immigration for the non-o visa.

[Onerak]

1 hour ago, Lichiyado said:

by paying her a measly 22,000 THB.

Are they pricing themselves out? I think 5K should suffice when the person already has money deposited in a bank and all the paper works are in order. 

[Lichiyado]

2 minutes ago, Onerak said:

Where she would go? Hoping to quit her job?

Day off? Vacation? Fired for incompetence? One can only hope!  5555

[scubascuba3]

1 minute ago, Lichiyado said:

Day off? Vacation? Fired for incompetence? One can only hope!  5555

She's got long history of giving farang earache, She gave me the same speech a few years ago

[Lichiyado]

3 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You go to the embassy in Vientiane or the consulate in Savannakhet and apply for the non-o visa.

Maybe better than a border hop and then having to deal with immigration for the non-o visa.

Not familiar with those options Joe. I'll look into it. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Lichiyado]

Just now, scubascuba3 said:

She's got long history of giving farang earache, She gave me the same speech a few years ago

And how did you handle it?

[scubascuba3]

37 minutes ago, Lichiyado said:

And how did you handle it?

for me at the time i was asking how many months of 65k i needed for the non imm O, basically she disregarded that and gave me the spill about the 20k 15 month visa & extension. I didn't want to transfer the 800k then so for the first year i used an agent (agent 1k more but much friendlier and helpful) but you don't need to as you've got the 800k

Edited November 2, 2022 by scubascuba3

[Andrew Dwyer]

40 minutes ago, Onerak said:

Are they pricing themselves out? I think 5K should suffice when the person already has money deposited in a bank and all the paper works are in order. 

This is an IO we are talking about not an agent !!, it’s her job .

2,000 baht is the fee for an O visa not a satang more.

[Lichiyado]

35 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

This is an IO we are talking about not an agent !!, it’s her job .

2,000 baht is the fee for an O visa not a satang more.

This is certainly an IO we're talking about, not an agent. And with both 'scubascuba3' and me she's wangling for extra cash to grease the wheels.

[Lichiyado]

40 minutes ago, scubascuba3 said:

for me at the time i was asking how many months of 65k i needed for the non imm O, basically she disregarded that and gave me the spill about the 20k 15 month visa & extension. I didn't want to transfer the 800k then so for the first year i used an agent (agent 1k more but much friendlier and helpful) but you don't need to as you've got the 800k

Oh, so she gave you the 15 month visa and extension thingamajiggy too? For only a paltry 20K? Such a deal! I guess my price went up. Inflation, you know. Yeah, I have my 800K in the bank. So now I have to decide if I want to talk to her supervisor or take another trip to Laos. Tough call.

[Peterw42]

OP, I won an argument with Jomtien office. Back when the insurance came in for OA, I was doing my regular marriage extension and all of a sudden they wanted insurance because I had originally entered on an OA a couple of years prior.

I came back home and printed out (in Thai and English) the relevant ruling that said insurance not required for marriage extn. Asked to see a supervisor, who then made a phone call, and they changed there mind.

You need to approach it being conscious of the whole loss of face thing. Don't tell them they are wrong, say it appears the ruling is wrong.

 

[Lichiyado]

1 hour ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, I won an argument with Jomtien office. Back when the insurance came in for OA, I was doing my regular marriage extension and all of a sudden they wanted insurance because I had originally entered on an OA a couple of years prior.

I came back home and printed out (in Thai and English) the relevant ruling that said insurance not required for marriage extn. Asked to see a supervisor, who then made a phone call, and they changed there mind.

You need to approach it being conscious of the whole loss of face thing. Don't tell them they are wrong, say it appears the ruling is wrong.

 

Hi Peter. Thanks for the history. As I strategize how to do this, if I do this, I know I need to be aware of making sure nobody loses face and to communicate as clearly, calmly, and kindly as possible. The document linked above about immigration procedures doesn't mention when the 800K needs to be in the bank when I apply for the Non-O visa. So there is no specific clause to refer to. The document certainly does NOT say it has to be in the bank 2 months prior to the initial application. That's all I have to go on at this time. And there is plenty of anecdotal information here on AseanNow, but I'm not sure how I can incorporate this into my chat with the supervisor. A friend had a good suggestion; go into the office, speak to a supervisor, seeking clarification of the rules and procedures. If he concurs with the IO who refused my visa, no harm, no foul...off to Laos I go to start the procedure fresh. Or maybe he'll make a phone call...

[DrJack54]

7 minutes ago, Lichiyado said:

...off to Laos I go to start the procedure fresh. Or maybe he'll make a phone call...

Can't understand idea of return to Laos, unless the intention is to obtain a non O at somewhere like Vientiane etc. 

 

You dismissed my suggestion of using agent to circumvent corrupt immigration officer.

Fine spend more by traveling to Laos. 

 

Or straight up ask the fat lady price to grease the wheels.

My guess is 5k 

[Lichiyado]

23 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Can't understand idea of return to Laos, unless the intention is to obtain a non O at somewhere like Vientiane etc. 

 

You dismissed my suggestion of using agent to circumvent corrupt immigration officer.

Fine spend more by traveling to Laos. 

 

Or straight up ask the fat lady price to grease the wheels.

My guess is 5k 

Hmmm...when you suggested to use an agent, I was thinking I'll be on the hook for something like the 22K the IO asked from me. In addition I was concerned that I might be on the hook to an agent, ad-infinitum. Upon further thought maybe that's not justified because I'm not asking them to do anything outwardly hinky. And if Maneerat is willing to do it for 5Kish, that certainly would be worth the price of admission, and certainly cheaper than another trip to Laos. Thanks for doubling down on this, Jack. I just wasn't getting it. I'll give the agent a call or visit, if the trip to JT immigration to talk to a supervisor yields no useful results. Thanks!

[DrJack54]

8 hours ago, Lichiyado said:

Hmmm...when you suggested to use an agent, I was thinking I'll be on the hook for something like the 22K the IO asked from me. In addition I was concerned that I might be on the hook to an agent, ad-infinitum. Upon further thought maybe that's not justified because I'm not asking them to do anything outwardly hinky. And if Maneerat is willing to do it for 5Kish, that certainly would be worth the price of admission, and certainly cheaper than another trip to Laos. Thanks for doubling down on this, Jack. I just wasn't getting it. I'll give the agent a call or visit, if the trip to JT immigration to talk to a supervisor yields no useful results. Thanks!

Please update the forum as things unfold.

There will be lot of folk interested in your outcome.

Hopefully you can obtain correct procedure and not be scammed.