Biden suggests voting for Republicans is a threat to democracy

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

A large number of Republican candidates across the nation refuse to accept the validity of the 2020 election.  Accepting legitimate election results is an essential requirement for democracy to work.

 

In other words: Yes, Republicans are a threat to democracy.

That is certainly the attitude of the current Republican Party.

My memory isn't too good .

Did the Dems happily accept Donald Trump as POTUS when he was elected ?

   Did they go along with his Presidency for four years with no civil disorder or Court cases trying to over turn the vote or anything like that ?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

If the Republicans do take the House/Senate, there's almost zero that they can do to improve the economy/inflation.  What they can do is gut social security/medicare, something they're already hinting at.

Ha ha. But you could be right. All they can do is try and stop the rot. They may have to wait another couple of years so the new president can reverse most of Biden's XO's.

Edited November 4, 2022 by nauseus

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Hey I agree with you. The GOP will go after their enemies in witch hunts and will do nothing much for the people. However they will certainly have time to reward their rich corporate donors with tax cuts. 

Witch hunts? A Democrat favorite pastime. I think Trump could tell you a lot more about those. 

[nauseus]

51 minutes ago, xylophone said:

So they buy into the lie – – and down the rabbit hole they go, where intelligence, clarity of thought and even common sense are non-existent. From whence spring forth such idiots as, "the Oath Keepers", "the Boogaloo boys", "the Proud Boys" and so on......a threat to the country, democracy and to mankind itself.

Mankind itself? Obsessed!

[heybruce]

10 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If that had been the case then there would have been a civil war already. Acceptance can mean the action of taking receipt of something, even if it is disliked. It does not mean that one necessarily has to trust or believe in it.

 

Many of us have had to accept various things that we don't like or believe in, just for the world to keep turning.

Hundreds of Republican candidates reject the outcome of the 2020 election, as well as Trump, who still refers to it as the stolen election.  The fact that they couldn't prevent Biden from taking office doesn't change that.

8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The best way is trust but both sides have to earn it from the other.

By rejecting election results without evidence Republicans are demonstrating they don't trust our system of democratic government.

7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Links. Right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates_and_Russian_officials

 

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/report-details-team-trump-s-connections-russia-s-2016-scheme-n1237264

 

null

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

How are you so sure about that?

Of course I am sure.  Can I prove there was no election fraud?  No, for the same reason I can't prove there is no Easter Bunny.  One can't prove a non-existence.

 

However if you want people to believe in the stolen election or the Easter Bunny, you must come up with the evidence.

 

[heybruce]

15 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

My memory isn't too good .

Did the Dems happily accept Donald Trump as POTUS when he was elected ?

   Did they go along with his Presidency for four years with no civil disorder or Court cases trying to over turn the vote or anything like that ?

Did the Democrats riot in the Capitol to prevent certification of the 2016 Presidential election?  Did they demand numerous recounts and audits, all of which verified the election result, and still deny the outcome?  Did President Obama refuse to meet Donald Trump at the White House on the day of his inauguration and turn over the White House and Presidency?

 

No to all of the above.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Voting for Republicans is a threat to democracy ?

To stop the threat to democracy, it would be an idea to raid the oppositions house and to stop them running for POTUS in the next elections .

  Save the democratic process by stopping the opposition from contending in the next  elections? 

[candide]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Really? There were riots across America throughout November of 2016.  Here is a list from just one day, November 10- New York, Chicago, Washington, LA, Portland. Tens of thousands of people involved. Police injured, police cars burned, businesses looted.  

 

And it continued for weeks.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/thousands-us-protest-president-elect-donald-trump/story?id=43427653

 

https://abc7ny.com/donald-trump-protest-oakland-protests/1599932/

From your link, " mostly peaceful protests".

Anyway, did they assault the Capitol in order to steal elections?

[candide]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Voting for Republicans is a threat to democracy ?

To stop the threat to democracy, it would be an idea to raid the oppositions house and to stop them running for POTUS in the next elections .

  Save the democratic process by stopping the opposition from contending in the next  elections? 

What are you talking about?

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, candide said:

What are you talking about?

The raid on his home , Mar-a-lago . 

[xylophone]

40 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Mankind itself? Obsessed!

Well I don't like right wing nut jobs, and I have got no time for the MAGA dimwits, so if you wish to call it obsessed, then by all means do – that's your prerogative, and not one I subscribe to.

Edited November 4, 2022 by onthedarkside
personal comment removed

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Hanaguma said:

Really? There were riots across America throughout November of 2016.  Here is a list from just one day, November 10- New York, Chicago, Washington, LA, Portland. Tens of thousands of people involved. Police injured, police cars burned, businesses looted.  

 

 

None of them tried to overthrow the results of the 2016 election by armed force, unlike Jan.6...

 

And perhaps you deliberately chose to ignore the part in your cited ABC report about....."in mostly peaceful gatherings."

 

"Tens of thousands of demonstrators took to the streets in cities across the country Wednesday to protest Donald Trump's election victory, in mostly peaceful gatherings that nonetheless resulted in at least 124 arrests and reports of damage, vandalism and injuries in several locations."

[Eric Loh]

24 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Witch hunts? A Democrat favorite pastime. I think Trump could tell you a lot more about those. 

That was Trump favourite victimhood word. It was a House bipartisan recommendation for articles of impeachment. Trump should know as he was the subject of the impeachment. 

[candide]

20 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The raid on his home , Mar-a-lago . 

I see. You mean this case, in which an ex-president refused to return classified documents, tried to hide possession of these documents, etc...?

Documents he was illegally keeping, according to a law he considered as being so important, that he actually strengthened it, when he was president. 

He got a taste of his own medecine! ????

Edited November 4, 2022 by candide

[nauseus]

45 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Hundreds of Republican candidates reject the outcome of the 2020 election, as well as Trump, who still refers to it as the stolen election.  The fact that they couldn't prevent Biden from taking office doesn't change that.

By rejecting election results without evidence Republicans are demonstrating they don't trust our system of democratic government.

Governmental and electoral systems are not the same.

 

45 minutes ago, heybruce said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_between_Trump_associates_and_Russian_officials

 

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/report-details-team-trump-s-connections-russia-s-2016-scheme-n1237264

 

null

Wikki and Maddow - just great.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by onthedarkside
misinfo comments removed

[onthedarkside]

The topic of this thread is not about the Mar a Lago case... Several diversion posts on that topic have been removed.

 

[banjobob]

A recent poll asked respondents, “What is your opinion of President Biden’s recent prime time address to the nation (in Philadelphia-SEPT-1) in which he accused his political opponents of representing ‘an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic’?”

 

Fifty-six percent of the voters said that the speech “represents a dangerous escalation in rhetoric and is designed to incite conflict amongst Americans.”

 

https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/COSA-Biden-Speech-Full-Report-0905.pdf

 

a good leader would have realized and admitted what the real problems are that plague America and impacts all Americans and then promised to create new and effective policies to curtail them and to improve the economy, crime rates, border security, recession, jobs, gun laws, and so on. To hurl insults and divide people is why Biden and the democrats are going nowhere and making more and worse problems.

 

 

 

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Governmental and electoral systems are not the same.

 

Wikki and Maddow - just great.

Our system of democratic government depends upon the electoral system. 

 

There was a time when I assumed most people knew this.  Apparently that isn't true for Trump supporters.

 

Regarding my sources, there are ample others.  I chose ones not behind paywalls.

[banjobob]

The big takeaway is that when a leader, or anyone that prefers to incite "conflict" and is perceived as such by the majority over a discussion of the success of their current administrations policies, achievements, successes, etc has obviously nothing positive to share with the electorate and country and have obviously failed, which Biden has done. Why else does Biden insist on his demonization strategy of his political opponents a week before an election.

[candide]

3 minutes ago, banjobob said:

The big takeaway is that when a leader, or anyone that prefers to incite "conflict" and is perceived as such by the majority over a discussion of the success of their current administrations policies, achievements, successes, etc has obviously nothing positive to share with the electorate and country and have obviously failed, which Biden has done. Why else does Biden insist on his demonization strategy of his political opponents a week before an election.

Because there is a risk that, if elected, they will try to overturn elections again in one way or another.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, candide said:

Because there is a risk that, if elected, they will try to overturn elections again in one way or another.

Why would they want to overturn an election if/when they won ?

[heybruce]

36 minutes ago, banjobob said:

A recent poll asked respondents, “What is your opinion of President Biden’s recent prime time address to the nation (in Philadelphia-SEPT-1) in which he accused his political opponents of representing ‘an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic’?”

 

Fifty-six percent of the voters said that the speech “represents a dangerous escalation in rhetoric and is designed to incite conflict amongst Americans.”

 

https://www.thetrafalgargroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/COSA-Biden-Speech-Full-Report-0905.pdf

 

a good leader would have realized and admitted what the real problems are that plague America and impacts all Americans and then promised to create new and effective policies to curtail them and to improve the economy, crime rates, border security, recession, jobs, gun laws, and so on. To hurl insults and divide people is why Biden and the democrats are going nowhere and making more and worse problems.

 

I assume this was a state level poll conducted in Georgia, the place the polling organization is located.

 

"Trafalgar Group only conducts state-level polls; according to Cahaly, "we don't do national polls, and that's for the same reason I don't keep up with hits in a baseball game: It's an irrelevant statistic"  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafalgar_Group

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yes, Republicans and a lot of independents (3 in 5 Americans overall) apparently don't want to hear the truth Biden is telling about election denyers and insurrectionists led by former President  Trump, saying those claims will further divide the country...

 

But there also are polling results that support the truth of what Biden is warning about, including those in response to the similar threat of MAGA speech he gave back in early September:

 

--"84% say political violence is unacceptable"

 

--"52% of Americans say that American values are under assault by Trump-led extremists"

 

--"58% say MAGA Republicans are threatening the foundations of American democracy"

 

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/americans-bidens-speech-further-divide-country

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, banjobob said:

The big takeaway is that when a leader, or anyone that prefers to incite "conflict" and is perceived as such by the majority over a discussion of the success of their current administrations policies, achievements, successes, etc has obviously nothing positive to share with the electorate and country and have obviously failed, which Biden has done. Why else does Biden insist on his demonization strategy of his political opponents a week before an election.

Do you object to Biden taking a page from Trump's playbook?

 

To be fair, Biden never went so far as to call the press "the enemy of the people"

Edited November 4, 2022 by onthedarkside
unsourced claim removed

[candide]

11 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Why would they want to overturn an election if/when they won ?

The next ones.

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Do you object to Biden taking a page from Trump's playbook?

 

To be fair, Biden never went so far as to call the press "the enemy of the people" or to suggest that in any conflict his side would win because his supporters had guns.

Perhaps that is because the press is the friend of the Democratic Party. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, candide said:

The next ones.

Do you mean the next elections (2024) or the elections after the next elections ?

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

To be fair, Biden never went so far as to call the press "the enemy of the people"

Well, the press have been very kind to Biden and he has no need to speak up about them .

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by onthedarkside
reply to hidden comment removed

[Slip]

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I assume this was a state level poll conducted in Georgia, the place the polling organization is located.

 

"Trafalgar Group only conducts state-level polls; according to Cahaly, "we don't do national polls, and that's for the same reason I don't keep up with hits in a baseball game: It's an irrelevant statistic"  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trafalgar_Group

In addition I note that the survey is in partnership with "Convention of States Action"- 

 

Quote

 

According to The Dangerous Path report, COS "has deep ties" to the tea party movement, the American Legislative Exchange Council and the Koch brothers."^[4]

^{https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Convention_of_States_Action}

...but few have been as well-funded or as ideologically driven as the Convention of States Project, steeped in evangelical Christianity and backed by millions of dollars in dark money.

 

https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Convention_of_States_Action

 

So we can see they are highly partisan if sourcewatch are to believed.  Trafalgar group seem a bit weird too- something about "social desirability bias" although their election polls do seem to be historically reasonably accurate for election predictions.

 

[Jingthing]

35 minutes ago, candide said:

Because there is a risk that, if elected, they will try to overturn elections again in one way or another.

There is a certainty.