Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[Chomper Higgot]

6 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Much easier to identify than that.  It's brexit and at last people can see that.  Not just brexit though.  Bad governance for the last ten years or so and incompetent morons who have systematically destroyed what was once a great country.  Our failure to keep to deals agreed by Johnson and his cronies means we can no longer be trusted and that trust will take a long time to restore.

 

 

The problems of Brexit are now starting g to be openly discussed in Mainstream Media.

 

No amount of denial, or head burying is going to hide the facts as they become increasingly obvious.

The promised sunlit uplands haven’t materialized, nor will they.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

It would be wrong to cast brexit as apolitical.

 

 

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/10/28/brexit-divides-the-uk-but-partisanship-and-ideology-are-still-key-factors/

Other polls say 35 % of Labour supporters voted to leave 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

Other polls say 35 % of Labour supporters voted to leave 

Sure, a third of the left voted leave and a third of the right voted remain. Most people would think that was a significant partisan split.

[Mac Mickmanus]

Just now, ozimoron said:

Sure, a third of the left voted leave and a third of the right voted remain. Most people would think that was a significant partisan split.

My point remains that it wasn't a Left/Right wing issue

If Labour supporters had all voted to remain, then the UK would have remained in the E.U

   A significant amount of left/right voted for leave/remain 

[Kwasaki]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

My point remains that it wasn't a Left/Right wing issue

If Labour supporters had all voted to remain, then the UK would have remained in the E.U

   A significant amount of left/right voted for leave/remain 

Yeah well the remainder don't like democracy do they. 

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah well the remainder don't like democracy do they. 

because there was a landslide vote to leave?

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah well the remainder don't like democracy do they. 

It was the Remainers not accepting the vote and trying to Remain in the E.U that caused four years of indecision and disruption which caused the Pound to fall .

   The money markets don't like volatility and avoided the U.K and the Pound whilst all the commotion was going on 

[gbsmiley]

6 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

because there was a landslide vote to leave?

Yes it was a landside victory; you can quote the percentages, but realistically, based on the constituences ( which determine government seats ) the remainers would barely have a handful of seats.

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah well the remainder don't like democracy do they. 

Let’s see how you react as public opinion moves further against Brexit.

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It was the Remainers not accepting the vote and trying to Remain in the E.U that caused four years of indecision and disruption which caused the Pound to fall .

   The money markets don't like volatility and avoided the U.K and the Pound whilst all the commotion was going on 

Nonsense, Sterling took a dive on the announcement of the Brexit result.

 

The problem was the a sense of the ‘oven ready deal’.

 

Even now the UK hasn’t taken control of such critical issues as post Brexit import controls.

 

And there’s not a ‘sunlit upland’ in sight.

 

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[Kwasaki]

19 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

because there was a landslide vote to leave?

Typical so you don't like democracy.

[ozimoron]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Typical so you don't like democracy.

I'm saying that winning by a gnat's hair isn't a mandate. Meantime, public opinion is solidly behind leavign as a mistake.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/

[Maybole]

On 11/12/2022 at 8:58 AM, Eleftheros said:

Because the UK Parliament is a care home for nonentities, whose only defining characteristic is that they are inadequate, obsequious poltroons.

I would add, primarily concerned with filling their own pockets

[Kwasaki]

26 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s see how you react as public opinion moves further against Brexit.

What good will that do it will just slow down progress. 

[Kwasaki]

12 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I'm saying that winning by a gnat's hair isn't a mandate. Meantime, public opinion is solidly behind leavign as a mistake.

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/987347/brexit-opinion-poll/

Mistakes or not in my opinion a democracy decision was made that you do not except some so you not like democracy. own up. 

[hotandsticky]

4 hours ago, ozimoron said:

If you actually read my post I said "Whether or not it was the main reason is debatable". That leaves room for some people to claim it wasn't their motivation. That at least some people voted based on racist attitudes is beyond question. Economists certainly weren't typically in favour of brexit, not many other obvious motivations out there. If not absolute racism then a big dose of xenophobia at least.

I agree that the racist element would be drawn to Brexit. I got bored hearing it said that EVERYONE who voted for Brexit was racist  -  and, yes, it was said.

 

I also accept that I did not fit the standard profile (put out by the media - and many Remainers) - my gripe was with the EU and what it had become. Most elements of Freedom of Movement I was in favour of.

[brewsterbudgen]

2 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

I agree that the racist element would be drawn to Brexit. I got bored hearing it said that EVERYONE who voted for Brexit was racist  -  and, yes, it was said.

 

I also accept that I did not fit the standard profile (put out by the media - and many Remainers) - my gripe was with the EU and what it had become. Most elements of Freedom of Movement I was in favour of.

I don't believe anyone has ever said that all those who voted for Brexit were racists.  What has been (rightly) said, however, is that all racists voted for Brexit.

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Mistakes or not in my opinion a democracy decision was made that you do not except some so you not like democracy. own up. 

They were entitled to proceed with brexit after the vote. I believe it remains the case that there was a huge amount of foreign influence and misinformation involved in achieving that narrow majority. Now it's buyer remorse.

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I don't believe anyone has ever said that all those who voted for Brexit were racists.  What has been (rightly) said, however, is that all racists voted for Brexit.

 

 

Again, I agree, but we were still painted with the same brush.

 

I had a so-called Facebook friend who de-friended me and called me a racist - just because we had opposing views on Brexit.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Again, I agree, but we were still painted with the same brush.

 

I had a so-called Facebook friend who de-friended me and called me a racist - just because we had opposing views on Brexit.

Problem there is that nobody on the right calls out the fringe so they get tarred with the same brush.

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

They were entitled to proceed with brexit after the vote. I believe it remains the case that there was a huge amount of foreign influence and misinformation involved in achieving that narrow majority. Now it's buyer remorse.

That is not and was not the long term view of the majority wanting out of EU they wanted to be free of the mafia EU run by France and Germany.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

That is not and was not the long term view of the majority wanting out of EU they wanted to be free of the mafia EU run by France and Germany.

Just supports my view that the vote was fuelled by xenophobia, not economics.

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Problem there is that nobody on the right calls out the fringe so they get tarred with the same brush.

 

That happens anyway - it suits the agenda of the media and, obviously, a group with opposing views.

 

I think, eventually, even Farage realised that and kept the extreme views at arms length. But you just mentioned "the right" and that polarises opinion that Brexit was about left and right. 

[ozimoron]

Just now, hotandsticky said:

 

That happens anyway - it suits the agenda of the media and, obviously, a group with opposing views.

 

I think, eventually, even Farage realised that and kept the extreme views at arms length. But you just mentioned "the right" and that polarises opinion that Brexit was about left and right. 

There was a strong (very strong) correlation between political affiliation and the brexit vote. I posted the chart. 2/3 of one party voting one way and 2/3 of the other party voting the other way is highly political.

[Eleftheros]

22 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I believe it remains the case that there was a huge amount of foreign influence and misinformation involved in achieving that narrow majority.

Indeed. That prize <deleted> Obama threatening the UK that it would go to "the back of the queue" for  a free-trade agreement surely pushed many undecided people to vote for Brexit.

[Laphroaig27]

Easy. Full of English, Scottish and Irish.

 

 

I'll show myself out

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Eleftheros said:

Indeed. That prize <deleted> Obama threatening the UK that it would go to "the back of the queue" for  a free-trade agreement surely pushed many undecided people to vote for Brexit.

Would it not have been reasonable for the US to prioritise a trade agreement with the EU before the UK after the UK unilaterally decided to leave the EU trade bloc? Should the US have given the much smaller market priority? I think Obama was simply laying out the reality on the ground.

[Chomper Higgot]

40 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

What good will that do it will just slow down progress. 

What progress?

 

The UK is in recession, tge place is falling apart.

[ivor bigun]

we voted to leave ,give it a bloody rest ,its over .????

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Would it not have been reasonable for the US to prioritise a trade agreement with the EU before the UK after the UK unilaterally decided to leave the EU trade bloc? Should the US have given the much smaller market priority? I think Obama was simply laying out the reality on the ground.

No , Obama was interfering with U.K Politics and trying to get the U.K to vote remain , he was threatening the U.K that if we left the E.U then we would be at the back of the queue when dealing with the USA .

   Obama was directly replying to comments made by the Leave group about UK/USA relations after the vote