Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[thaibeachlovers]

24 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Brexit - it puts the UK out of trade and 4 to 10% economically worse. The rest of the world is suffering from inflation ,energy crisis etc etc but the UK threw the baby out with the bat water. 

It's early days. Guys that make assessments based on a couple of years amuse me. 

When it gets better people will say how happy they are not to be told what to do by Brussels.

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's early days. Guys that make assessments based on a couple of years amuse me. 

When it gets better people will say how happy they are not to be told what to do by Brussels.

UK always retained it's sovereignty and foreign policy. The only compulsion from Brussels were economic measures for cooperation signed up for by the UK. The loss of this cooperation cost the UK dearly and will continue to do so until the UK replaces brexit with something close to what they had before.

Edited November 19, 2022 by ozimoron

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

UK always retained it's sovereignty and foreign policy. The only compulsion from Brussels were economic measures for cooperation signed up for by the UK. The loss of this cooperation cost the UK dearly and will continue to do so until the UK replaces brexit with something close to what they had before.

The 'compulsion' from Brussels went far beyond economic measures and was about to go much further - that's why so many wanted out. 

[kwilco]

39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's early days. Guys that make assessments based on a couple of years amuse me. 

When it gets better people will say how happy they are not to be told what to do by Brussels.

"When it gets better" - Don't make me laugh!

It started before 2016 - it was forecast and referred to as "project fear" - only a fool thinks that Brussels told us what to do.

Edited November 19, 2022 by kwilco

[thaibeachlovers]

28 minutes ago, kwilco said:

"When it gets better" - Don't make me laugh!

It started before 2016 - it was forecast and referred to as "project fear" - only a fool thinks that Brussels told us what to do.

Call me a fool then. Remember bent bananas?

[Eleftheros]

10 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If you recall Boris and the Tories were actually going to do this and with his “best thing would be to ignore it” statement and “herd immunity” nonsense but he was forced to do a dramatic u-turn when his advisers extrapolated the numbers out and found out a LOT of people were going to die. A LOT. 
Nothing you are saying is wrong, but they did what they did at the time with the information they had so I’m a bit less harsh on this one. 

"They did what they did at the time with the information they had."

 

If that were to be the case for the defence, it would be a very weak one.

 

1. They relied on information from a notorious and time-proved bungler in Neil Ferguson, whose rotten predictions had already cost the UK billions of pounds in earlier disease outbreaks (notably swine flu).

2. They spoke to an actual doctor, an acknowledged expert on the transmission dynamics of infectious diseases (Dr Sunetra Gupta) and then ignored her advice.

3. They threw away, in a single afternoon, a Pandemic Preparedness Strategy which had been created carefully a decade  before for just this sort of situation.

 

It was a display of astounding cowardice and incompetence which has caused generational damage to the country they had been entrusted to govern.

[Bkk Brian]

14 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

"They did what they did at the time with the information they had."

 

If that were to be the case for the defence, it would be a very weak one.

 

1. They relied on information from a notorious and time-proved bungler in Neil Ferguson, whose rotten predictions had already cost the UK billions of pounds in earlier disease outbreaks (notably swine flu).

2. They spoke to an actual doctor, an acknowledged expert on the transmission dynamics of infectious diseases (Dr Sunetra Gupta) and then ignored her advice.

3. They threw away, in a single afternoon, a Pandemic Preparedness Strategy which had been created carefully a decade  before for just this sort of situation.

 

It was a display of astounding cowardice and incompetence which has caused generational damage to the country they had been entrusted to govern.

They saw the scenes of hospitals filling up in the UK and other European countries 'which drove the policy making' simple really.

[Kwasaki]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ah yes, the kids from university that know sod all about life as it really is, but claim that a piece of paper makes them experts.

 

Yet some on this very forum have claimed that any that have not got a uni education are not as good as those that have. LOL.

I'll take any that learned on the job ( with sufficient educational input from technical colleges etc ) over someone that spent 18 or so years in school anytime. Not referring to actual professionals such as doctors though.

 

There are many reasons why Britain is struggling and IMO more to do with management as I experienced it when working there, than Brexit or any such.

I concur most management run large construction companies were a joke, the work didn't mean anything only profit and shareholders. 

The hundreds of small building companies that were bought up was a sad day in the construction industry. 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

profit and shareholders. 

When money has become more important than people, that society IMO is doomed to the fate of all failed societies- the Babylonians, the Romans, etc.

[Chomper Higgot]

Chancellor Jeremy Hunt has said the quiet bit out loud:

 

 

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/brexit-jeremy-hunt-quizzed-on-rejoining-single-market-as-he-concedes-damaging-trade-barriers-created-by-brexit-deal-3923127

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

The 'compulsion' from Brussels went far beyond economic measures and was about to go much further - that's why so many wanted out. 

so cough up, what were those compulsory measures. I challenged you and you provided nothing.

[ozimoron]

10 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

When money has become more important than people, that society IMO is doomed to the fate of all failed societies- the Babylonians, the Romans, etc.

All people were created equal.

[Kwasaki]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

When money has become more important than people, that society IMO is doomed to the fate of all failed societies- the Babylonians, the Romans, etc.

Some of the Architects were a joke too young an inexperienced.

 

On a lot of the labour run sites in London it was difficult to find someone who spoke English. ????

 

I ended up not visiting many sites just phoned my gang leaders on site to find out progress and see to it they had material and tool backup. 

 

 

[Kwasaki]

7 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

so cough up, what were those compulsory measures. I challenged you and you provided nothing.

Instructed from Brussels was enough don't really matter about anything else. 

[RayC]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It's early days. Guys that make assessments based on a couple of years amuse me. 

When it gets better people will say how happy they are not to be told what to do by Brussels.

Problem is that there is no evidence to suggest that things will get better. It's nothing but blind faith to suggest otherwise.

 

The UK almost never had to enact any legislation from Brussels that it didn't agree with. 

[RayC]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

The 'compulsion' from Brussels went far beyond economic measures and was about to go much further - that's why so many wanted out. 

Another of the favourite old chestnuts rears its' head again

[RayC]

9 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Requiring foreigners to obtain visas before visiting a Country isn't being xenophobic 

What is then? You've said that it's not for economic reasons. UK Immigration should know when someone has arrived in the country. What added benefit is there in making individuals obtain a visa?

[Mike Teavee]

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

What is then? You've said that it's not for economic reasons. UK Immigration should know when someone has arrived in the country. What added benefit is there in making individuals obtain a visa?

The process of getting a Visa is all about vetting to ensure that the person is eligible to enter the country so provides benefit to the individual (very few people with Visas are denied entry) as well as the state,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bluespunk]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Remember bent bananas?

I remember the myth they were banned, when in fact they were not. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Instructed from Brussels was enough don't really matter about anything else. 

Except it’s a Brexit lie.

[Kwasaki]

57 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Except it’s a Brexit lie.

So the EU would let us do anything we wanted as a member,   OK i never knew that. 

 

As a young man never wanted to join the European mob in the first place. 

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

What is then? You've said that it's not for economic reasons. UK Immigration should know when someone has arrived in the country. What added benefit is there in making individuals obtain a visa?

If done properly it keeps the ponces out. 

[Chomper Higgot]

13 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

So the EU would let us do anything we wanted as a member,   OK i never knew that. 

 

As a young man never wanted to join the European mob in the first place. 

The UK has not been able to do as it pleases since around the time of the Second World War.

 

The latest example being Washington Schooling London on what is and is not acceptable wrt the UK’s post Brexit plans for Northern Ireland.

 

 

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

The process of getting a Visa is all about vetting to ensure that the person is eligible to enter the country so provides benefit to the individual (very few people with Visas are denied entry) as well as the state,

 

Under freedom of movement regulations very few EU nationals would have been denied entry to the UK, so I don't see how the imposition of visa requirements benefit these individuals.

[RayC]

32 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

If done properly it keeps the ponces out. 

3% of EU nationals in the UK were unemployed prior to the pandemic. This rose to 6% during the pandemic (Source: Daily Telegraph).

 

I can't find data on the UK unemployed in the EU, but I imagine that there are a similar number of British "ponces" living in the EU.

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 hours ago, RayC said:

What is then? You've said that it's not for economic reasons. UK Immigration should know when someone has arrived in the country. What added benefit is there in making individuals obtain a visa?

The added benefit is that millions of Europeans  can not just come to the UK and live and work in the U.K 

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The UK has not been able to do as it pleases since around the time of the Second World War.

 

The latest example being Washington Schooling London on what is and is not acceptable wrt the UK’s post Brexit plans for Northern Ireland.

 

Yeah the Northern Ireland thing is or seems to be a problem with border i don't see why concessions can't be made someone is being stubborn.

N. Ireland voted to stay in EU so I say get rid of it it's been nothing but trouble for decades.

Scotland can buzz off as well if they want. 

[Mavideol]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah the Northern Ireland thing is or seems to be a problem with border i don't see why concessions can't be made someone is being stubborn.

N. Ireland voted to stay in EU so I say get rid of it it's been nothing but trouble for decades.

Scotland can buzz off as well if they want. 

if only the Tories could listen to you all problems solved and England back to be "fully" independent from the UK  555

[Mac Mickmanus]

20 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

if only the Tories could listen to you all problems solved and England back to be "fully" independent from the UK  555

Yes, the best way for Scotland to become independent would be to allow the English to vote

[stevenl]

19 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, the best way for Scotland to become independent would be to allow the English to vote

How about a vote on england becoming independent?