China Covid: Xi's face-saving exit from his signature policy

[webfact]

Beijingers no longer need a negative PCR test to travel on public transport. Photo: EPA

 

By Stephen McDonell
BBC News, Beijing

 

If you want to know what the government's Covid plan is in China, look at what it does rather than what it says.

 

Take Beijing for example.

 

There has not been a significant drop in infections, yet public transport now no longer requires a PCR test result, bars and restaurants are slowly re-opening, and in some cases people are being allowed to isolate at home after catching Covid instead of going into centralised quarantine facilities.

 

So when you examine what is happening here right now, the trajectory seems clear - the government appears to have quietly dumped zero Covid as a goal.

 

Full story: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63857194

 

-- © Copyright BBC 2022-12-06

[rwill]

Well at some point you have to realize that this is never going away and life has to return to normal.

[spidermike007]

Yes, it appears the protests had their desired effect. The madman, power hungry Xi is letting go of his absolutely insane zero covid policy. Shutting down major cities over a few cases was strange and incredibly dumb policy. And it did not work. They were requiring PCR tests to enter your apartment building! And they continued with the lowest efficacy vaccines. Bizarre. 

[JonnyF]

Good news for the oppressed Chinese people.

 

Let's hope they don't open the borders too soon though. 

[mikeymike100]

So can we now expect the Chinese will be allowed to travel overseas?

[Eleftheros]

It's telling how the BBC gloats at the failure of China's lockdown policy, yet has constantly supported to the hilt an almost identical policy in the UK. No hint of self-awareness.

 

It's hypocrisy on the same staggering level as the awful Trudeau saying that protesting is a human right, that "Everybody in China should be allowed to protest, we will continue to ensure that China knows we will stand for human rights and with people who are expressing themselves."

 

Oh, really?

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Eleftheros said:

It's telling how the BBC gloats at the failure of China's lockdown policy, yet has constantly supported to the hilt an almost identical policy in the UK. No hint of self-awareness.

 

It's hypocrisy on the same staggering level as the awful Trudeau saying that protesting is a human right, that "Everybody in China should be allowed to protest, we will continue to ensure that China knows we will stand for human rights and with people who are expressing themselves."

 

Oh, really?

 

No just a far less deadly strain

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

It's telling how the BBC gloats at the failure of China's lockdown policy, yet has constantly supported to the hilt an almost identical policy in the UK. No hint of self-awareness.

 

It's hypocrisy on the same staggering level as the awful Trudeau saying that protesting is a human right, that "Everybody in China should be allowed to protest, we will continue to ensure that China knows we will stand for human rights and with people who are expressing themselves."

 

Oh, really?

 

An almost identical policy? You really want to go with that?

And your analogy to Canada is ridiculous. People in Canada are not allowed to protest because everyone in Canada who protests drives a big rig and uses it to disrupt the normal life of citizens for days on end?

Your comparisons are ludicrous.

[Eleftheros]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

An almost identical policy? You really want to go with that?

And your analogy to Canada is ridiculous. People in Canada are not allowed to protest because everyone in Canada who protests drives a big rig and uses it to disrupt the normal life of citizens for days on end?

Your comparisons are ludicrous.

I'm not the one making the comparison - Trudeau is.

 

For him to be able to even utter the words: "We will stand for human rights and with people who are expressing themselves." is dreadful hypocrisy, and I'm far from the only person to think so.

[Scott]

I don't recall seeing where this topic is about Canada.  Stay on topic. 

 

[placeholder]

23 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

I'm not the one making the comparison - Trudeau is.

 

For him to be able to even utter the words: "We will stand for human rights and with people who are expressing themselves." is dreadful hypocrisy, and I'm far from the only person to think so.

Yes, there are quite a few people like you who don't understand the concept of difference in degree.

[Eleftheros]

Also good viewing at the New York Times, which has supported the China protests and called China's Covid response "a strategy steeped in authoritarianism".

 

It seemed to find no irony in this given that it ran a headline in 2020 "Germany's Coronavirus Protests: Anti-vaxxers, Anticapitalists, Neo-Nazis".

 

The only standards understood by the NYT are double standards.

[Bkk Brian]

10 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Also good viewing at the New York Times, which has supported the China protests and called China's Covid response "a strategy steeped in authoritarianism".

 

It seemed to find no irony in this given that it ran a headline in 2020 "Germany's Coronavirus Protests: Anti-vaxxers, Anticapitalists, Neo-Nazis".

 

The only standards understood by the NYT are double standards.

Different timeline and different context = double standards to you?

[Eleftheros]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Different timeline and different context = double standards to you?

Either you support people's right to protest or you don't.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Either you support people's right to protest or you don't.

Peaceful protests are fine, now back to the context of both events?

[placeholder]

23 minutes ago, Eleftheros said:

Also good viewing at the New York Times, which has supported the China protests and called China's Covid response "a strategy steeped in authoritarianism".

 

It seemed to find no irony in this given that it ran a headline in 2020 "Germany's Coronavirus Protests: Anti-vaxxers, Anticapitalists, Neo-Nazis".

 

The only standards understood by the NYT are double standards.

You're confused. The Times did not support suppression of the Germans' right to free speech and protest.

[AndyFoxy]

1 hour ago, Eleftheros said:

It's telling how the BBC gloats at the failure of China's lockdown policy, yet has constantly supported to the hilt an almost identical policy in the UK. No hint of self-awareness.

 

It's hypocrisy on the same staggering level as the awful Trudeau saying that protesting is a human right, that "Everybody in China should be allowed to protest, we will continue to ensure that China knows we will stand for human rights and with people who are expressing themselves."

 

Oh, really?

 

Yes. When the Chinese do it, they are fighting for their freedom. When those in the west do it, they are right-wing conspiracy nuts.

[Eleftheros]

2 minutes ago, AndyFoxy said:

Yes. When the Chinese do it, they are fighting for their freedom. When those in the west do it, they are right-wing conspiracy nuts.

And when the Chinese government cracks down, they are vile Communist authoritarians.

 

When Western governments crack down, they are nobly defending democracy itself.

[Cake Monster]

The greatest  fear to the CCP, is not being able to control the masses, and have them rebelling.

Xi,s Covid policy has pushed the people of his Country to the point of revolt, and anarchy is something that the CCP cannot, and will not tolerate, as it would undermine their totalitarian grip upon the nation.

Xi will only bend slightly. He will never give in, at any cost.

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, AndyFoxy said:

Yes. When the Chinese do it, they are fighting for their freedom. When those in the west do it, they are right-wing conspiracy nuts.

You seem incapable of understanding the issue of degree The Chinese people are not free to protest. They face severe consequence when the authorities catch hold of them.   . What the govt. of China imposed on its people was and is far more severe than what any government in the west did. In addition, it refused to use foreign vaccines that are far more effective than the Chinese made ones. 

[Johnnyngai]

When the infection rate goes way up, dictator Xi will place all the restrictions back up. 

The ordinary Chinese have no access to uptodate medicines like us. 

The ordinary chinese will go back to hiding due to the fears of big doctor bills. 

God only blessed the citizens of wealthy technologically advanced countries.

[AndyFoxy]

28 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You seem incapable of understanding the issue of degree The Chinese people are not free to protest. They face severe consequence when the authorities catch hold of them.   . What the govt. of China imposed on its people was and is far more severe than what any government in the west did. In addition, it refused to use foreign vaccines that are far more effective than the Chinese made ones. 

Ahhh......the vaccine thing. Foreign vaccines are more effective? At what? 

You seem incapable of understanding how your rights are being eroded away until you end up like those in China.

[Eleftheros]

39 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You seem incapable of understanding the issue of degree

The main entities 'incapable of understanding the issue of degree' were governments and their health apparatchiks.

 

The degree to which Covid overwhelmingly affects the elderly; the degree to which lockdowns were much more physically and mentally damaging to children than older people; the degree to which natural immunity after infection protects someone; the degree to which vaccines pose a greater threat to the young than the old.

 

Some of this (the superiority of natural immunity) was known 2500 years ago, some of it emerged very quickly in the data, and some of it is just plain common sense.

 

Their one-size-fits-all, spreadsheet by-the-numbers approach was one of the most signal failures of the whole sorry mess.

[hotchilli]

8 hours ago, webfact said:

So when you examine what is happening here right now, the trajectory seems clear - the government appears to have quietly dumped zero Covid as a goal.

So the street protests had some affect?

[AndyFoxy]

1 hour ago, Eleftheros said:

 

 

Some of this (the superiority of natural immunity) was known 2500 years ago, some of it emerged very quickly in the data, and some of it is just plain common sense.

 

 

At least in that which wasn't suppressed.

[Credo]

I think a lot of people are not acknowledging the difficulty of dealing with a new viral strain and now with the numerous variants.   When it first appeared, the only thing to guide health professionals was information on previous viruses, and that was primarily how flu was spread.  Flu spreads in larger droplets and isn't easily aerosolized.  Masks are helpful in stopping the spread of flu, but generally not necessary.  Asia masked up; the West didn't.  Asia got it right; the West didn't, but quickly changed course once it became apparent the virus was significantly better at aerosolizing than flu.   

Lockdowns were generally instituted to keep the medical system from being overwhelmed and collapsing.  It was essential that the curve be flattened.  By and large, the lockdowns were not implemented to protect people; they were to protect hospitals.  Of course, those two are not easily separated.  

 

The lockdowns were drastic and severe, but most likely effective in achieving their aim.  A very big problem with lockdowns is that it's hard to predict when a new wave will affect a particular area. Invariably, large metro areas are affected earlier and more severely and rural areas get hit, but usually later.  That is a generalization and not always correct.   Every place will get hit, but not at the same time.  Targeted lockdowns may be marginally effective, but the cost and the toll on the social and economic fabric is horrendous.  

 

Zero Covid is not possible.  We can defeat some viruses, like Smallpox and possibly Polio, because they don't have a known reservoir species other than humans.  Once it can affect other species, it becomes a virus we will have to learn to live with.  Covid affects a lot of species, and any of them may be able to provide an endless reservoir of virus able to infect us.   

Politically, the only way it is going to be controlled at this point is with effective vaccines.  China is being intransigent in not using the mRNA vaccines that are already available.  They need to also avail themselves of effective traditional vaccines as they are developed.   

 

Lockdowns have to short and sharp.  Longer term lockdowns will almost always cause social upheaval.   China's approach is far to extreme and ineffective to either stop Covid or prevent major social problems.   

[DaveCW]

10 hours ago, placeholder said:

You seem incapable of understanding the issue of degree The Chinese people are not free to protest. They face severe consequence when the authorities catch hold of them.   . What the govt. of China imposed on its people was and is far more severe than what any government in the west did. In addition, it refused to use foreign vaccines that are far more effective than the Chinese made ones. 

I have a good friend in China - He tells me often that there are many protests each year, typically at local government level. The idea that the Chinese cannot protest is something promoted by the west - Also, (if you ask the Chinese) many people have been content with the government handling of COVID - Agree or not - I think one has to see this from a Chinese point of view - similar to how we need to understand "Thainess" before getting involved in their issues.