If Wife Dies Before Me.

[NoshowJones]

My house is in my wife's name. If she dies before me, who in her family inherits the house? She has a son and daughter, the daughter is the oldest by two years, she also has an elder brother, two younger brothers and a younger sister.

Can she decide who inherits the house, or does it automatically go to her daughter?

[bob smith]

11 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

Can she decide who inherits the house,

yes, she can. she can write you in her will as the sole beneficiary of the estate. then you will have 365 days from the point you inherit the house to sell it to a thai national.

 

if you cannot sell it within that period i am unsure what will happen, maybe the thai government gets it or whoever is next in the familial line? might have to go to court at that point.

 

point is she must explicitly write you in her will by name as the sole beneficiary for you to stand any chance of inheriting the property.

Edited December 13, 2022 by bob smith

[problemfarang]

not 100% sure but,

 

both of you can go to a lawyer and she can sign a document saying she is the real owner and let you stay and live in the house until you die (you and she can put other conditions here). this is what we did with my ex-wife after we divorced. im pretty sure similar thing can apply in your question.

 

OR again with a lawyer she can make the owner of the house her brother UNTIL the daughter comes to age and also give permission to you staying and living in the house without any complications till the daughter comes to age. Then the house will pass to the daughter. Meanwhile the brother has no right to do anything to or with the house. only keep the house till she comes to the age. 

 

i would go with the second option. But let the lawyer understand that till the daughter comes to the age no one can do anything to the house. this will secure you. BUT keep in mind that this will limit things, maybe cannot sell the house and likewise things. 

 

PS: if you dont take any action, the brother will get the house (most likely)

 

good luck

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by problemfarang

[problemfarang]

13 minutes ago, bob smith said:

if you cannot sell it within that period i am unsure what will happen, maybe the thai government gets it or whoever is next in the familial line? might have to go to court at that point.

first level parent (her mother or father) then siblings (brother, sister) will get the house. Government get the house only if there are no people left in family tree. in OP case most likely brother will take it.

Edited December 13, 2022 by problemfarang

[NoshowJones]

4 minutes ago, bob smith said:

yes, she can. she can write you in her will as the sole beneficiary of the estate. then you will have 365 days from the point you inherit the house to sell it to a thai national.

 

if you cannot sell it within that period i am unsure what will happen then, maybe the thai government gets it or whoever is next in the familial line? might have to go to court at that point.

 

point is she must explicitly write you in her will by name as the sole beneficiary for you to have any chance of inheriting the property.

I would not expect her to want to name me as the sole beneficiary as her son, daughter and father still live in the house, and her brothers spend a lot of their time here.

She is not going to risk me selling the house and the rest of her family getting put out, and no one could blame her.

Or maybe I'm missing something.

[realfunster]

13 minutes ago, bob smith said:

yes, she can. she can write you in her will as the sole beneficiary of the estate. then you will have 365 days from the point you inherit the house to sell it to a thai national.

 

if you cannot sell it within that period i am unsure what will happen, maybe the thai government gets it or whoever is next in the familial line? might have to go to court at that point.

 

point is she must explicitly write you in her will by name as the sole beneficiary for you to stand any chance of inheriting the property.

I knew about the 365 days, I wasn't aware about a specific requirement to be named as the sole beneficiary.

Sounds like I need to have a chat with the wife about this. 

[bob smith]

9 minutes ago, realfunster said:

I knew about the 365 days, I wasn't aware about a specific requirement to be named as the sole beneficiary.

if you are named in the will as the sole beneficiary then that would put you in excellent legal standing when it comes to inheriting the house. it would ward off any potential scavengers (family members) from taking you to court and crying to the judge.

 

if you are named in the document and you alone, then legally they wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

 

DO NOT rely on the fact that you are her husband and (you think) you are legally entitled to the property through marriage only. Doesnt work like that here. The family WILL take you to court and will probably walk away with at least half, if not all of the house if they put up a good fight.

 

I am named as the sole beneficiary of my wifes house.
Her family aint got a prayer. 

 

Be smart, especially when it comes to stuff like this.

Edited December 13, 2022 by bob smith

[ezzra]

You didn't mention who paid for the house, if you did, than you should have a lot more rights, if you didn't pay for the house than the siblings have most of the rights...

[bob smith]

3 minutes ago, ezzra said:

You didn't mention who paid for the house, if you did, than you should have a lot more rights, if you didn't pay for the house than the siblings have most of the rights...

None of that matters as long as you are mentioned in your wifes will as the sole beneficiary of her estate. Who paid what, when and where counts for nothing. It's all about her will and who is named in it.

Edited December 13, 2022 by bob smith

[KhunLA]

Whoever she designates in the will ...

... that is what they are for.

 

If no will, goes to children ... and they can fight over it.

Do you have a Plan B ... ????

 

NO plan, is a plan to FAIL ... why no will registered, or trustworthy kid on the chanote.

[Liverpool Lou]

44 minutes ago, bob smith said:

yes, she can. she can write you in her will as the sole beneficiary of the estate. then you will have 365 days from the point you inherit the house to sell it to a thai national.

 

if you cannot sell it within that period i am unsure what will happen, maybe the thai government gets it or whoever is next in the familial line? might have to go to court at that point.

"The answer to the question 'can a foreigner inherit land in Thailand' is yes, as a statutory heir, but he cannot register ownership of the land because he will not be given permission. Under present law he must dispose of the land within a reasonable period (meaning up to 1 year) to a Thai national. If the foreigner fails to dispose of the land the Director-General of the Land Department is authorized to dispose of the land and retain a fee of 5% of the sale price before any deductions or taxes".

https://www.samuiforsale.com/knowledge/inheritance-laws-thailand.html#:~:text=The surviving spouse is a statutory heir but their entitlement,in to four equal shares.

[JimTripper]

Who cares?

It’s their problem now.

[steven100]

some might say ' great '   ......   haha

[curtklay]

This gets complicated and difficult for westerners to understand. It's best to see a lawyer. A will or usufruct is your only route and even then is not a guarantee, particularly pertaining to the land. Don't rely on forum advice.

[problemfarang]

From what i read, it seems you dont trust your wife or wife family or the other way. maybe im wrong and hope im. and seems you kind of scare to be homeless.

 

i strongly suggest you to talk with your wife while shes still alive. Agree on terms such as the letter i mentioned to you. your daughter will have the house but you will be guaranteed to be living in the house without any complications till you die. then go to a lawyer and make it legal. 

 

I strongly suggest you and your wife talk to a lawyer what you can do. best for all sites. a common contract. 

 

Dont trust you are/were married to her, it doesnt mean anything in thailand after she dies. after she dies you have no right about anything. no house, no car, no nothing. forget about them. Thats why you need to go to a lawyer and make things clear. 

 

There is another way you can do but im not sure if tis too late or not. When i was buying my home with my ex-wife (we were together at that time) the seller asked me if i want my name on the house book. i said well sure why not, then she said i must pay 70% cash. then i told her no, thanks. now if there is a such thing, maybe you can talk to a lawyer & a real estate agency to arrange something like that. For example you can try to sell the house in 2 parties. 

 

again as you can see all you really need to do is go to a lawyer. like it or not. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by problemfarang

[problemfarang]

16 minutes ago, curtklay said:

This gets complicated and difficult for westerners to understand. It's best to see a lawyer. A will or usufruct is your only route and even then is not a guarantee, particularly pertaining to the land. Don't rely on forum advice.

totally agree. just use this forum to have an idea and then go to a lawyer and see your options. 

though it seems he needs to talk to his wife before doing anything and make things clear.

[JimGant]

So, if your plan, upon wife's death, is to sell the house, and move on, then, as you say, the wife will not go along with this, as she wants her relatives ability to still live there.

 

Without a Will, her property would go one/third each to son and daughter, and the last third to you (as a statutory heir). Kinda messy, but at least you'd get one/third, assuming you could find a buyer for your share..... (not a great market for part ownership of a property).

 

Now, if you want to remain living on the property, the only way to go is either usefruct or 30 year lease -- which means, whoever owns the property, cannot throw you off the property -- and maybe that, and not ownership, is your end goal.

 

With either of these endorsed on the property chanote, it really makes no difference to your legal ability to reside on the property whether or not the wife has a Will, as you state her wishes are the kids will get some ownership -- and they will get at least two/thirds ownership of the property without a Will -- or maybe all, if she does have a Will and indicates accordingly. If you're not worried about getting any money for your one/third share -- which would probably only come from her kids buying you out (good luck, unless they're of means) -- having her make a Will would be a lot less messy than settling intestate.

 

Anyway, a lawyer probably needs to be involved, although usefruct/lease situations can be dealt with directly with the Land Office without a lawyer (at least that was my situation).

[KhunLA]

Lease & usufruct are a bit useless, if they don't want you there.

 

At lease you know your pecking order in advance ...

... Plan B

[NorthernRyland]

2 hours ago, problemfarang said:

both of you can go to a lawyer and she can sign a document saying she is the real owner and let you stay and live in the house until you die (you and she can put other conditions here). this is what we did with my ex-wife after we divorced. im pretty sure similar thing can apply in your question.

 

For what It's worth I watched some YouTube Thai lawyer videos on this topic (Usufructs) and it sounds a little dubious this would hold up if one of the family members really was dedicated to getting the house from you. They sound good on paper but when challenged in court that's another matter.

[KhunLA]

4 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

For what It's worth I watched some YouTube Thai lawyer videos on this topic (Usufructs) and it sounds a little dubious this would hold up if one of the family members really was dedicated to getting the house from you. They sound good on paper but when challenged in court that's another matter.

Don't know about court challenge, but do you really want to finish out your years, living in a house with 3-10 people who don't want you there, or like you.

 

Eventually your safety may become on issue.

[PeachCH]

My wife died and the court ordered that I have one year to sell the condo. (was registered in her name) 

My lawyer applied and finally I could keep the condo, despite the intervention of her family. 

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, problemfarang said:

totally agree. just use this forum to have an idea and then go to a lawyer and see your options. 

though it seems he needs to talk to his wife before doing anything and make things clear.

I get on well with my wife and her family, have a great marriage, have been together for 15 years and married for ten. I also get on well with her family, but I have a suspicion that my stepdaughter could get influenced my her friend who lives in the house with her most of the time and could use me to try and get financial advantages if the house was left in her name.

Would it be better for her to get a legal document and sign it to say that I can stay on in the house if she passes before me.

If a lawyer knows that a farang is involved I would imagine he would make it more expensive.

If something like that could happen it would not matter who's name the house was in.

 

[NorthernRyland]

11 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Don't know about court challenge, but do you really want to finish out your years, living in a house with 3-10 people who don't want you there, or like you.

 

Eventually your safety may become on issue.

Oh you mean the house is next their family? Oh yeah that's awkward! It is possible she dies first and on good terms so the family isn't trying to destroy you, hopefully...

[Sheryl]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Don't know about court challenge, but do you really want to finish out your years, living in a house with 3-10 people who don't want you there, or like you.

 

Eventually your safety may become on issue.

This.

 

A properly executed usufruct or land lease will stand up in court (unless someone with "influence" creates mischief).

 

A lot depends  on the character of the people involved and their relationship with each other. Worst thing your wife could do IMO  is leave it undiscussed and undefined. She should have frank discussions with her children now about who will get ownership and her desire  that they continue to allow her father and you to reside there. Best case, the kids accept this and she then provides you with a usufruct/land lease with their knowledge so no surprises later.

 

The pronlem is it can be hard to get Thais to have such talks/do such planning. Many think  it is bad luck. 

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, problemfarang said:

not 100% sure but,

 

both of you can go to a lawyer and she can sign a document saying she is the real owner and let you stay and live in the house until you die (you and she can put other conditions here). this is what we did with my ex-wife after we divorced. im pretty sure similar thing can apply in your question.

 

OR again with a lawyer she can make the owner of the house her brother UNTIL the daughter comes to age and also give permission to you staying and living in the house without any complications till the daughter comes to age. Then the house will pass to the daughter. Meanwhile the brother has no right to do anything to or with the house. only keep the house till she comes to the age. 

 

i would go with the second option. But let the lawyer understand that till the daughter comes to the age no one can do anything to the house. this will secure you. BUT keep in mind that this will limit things, maybe cannot sell the house and likewise things. 

 

PS: if you dont take any action, the brother will get the house (most likely)

 

good luck

 

 

Thanks, but which brother, probably her older one?

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

You didn't mention who paid for the house, if you did, than you should have a lot more rights, if you didn't pay for the house than the siblings have most of the rights...

I bought the house and land.

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, NoshowJones said:

Thanks, but which brother, probably her older one?

I think some posters missed the fact that there are children. In the absence of a will their rights precede that of her brothers assuming your wife has sole legal ownership of the house to begin with (something you should verify). 

 

 

[NoshowJones]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

This.

 

A properly executed usufruct or land lease will stand up in court (unless someone with "influence" creates mischief).

 

A lot depends  on the character of the people involved and their relationship with each other. Worst thing your wife could do IMO  is leave it undiscussed and undefined. She should have frank discussions with her children now about who will get ownership and her desire  that they continue to allow her father and you to reside there. Best case, the kids accept this and she then provides you with a usufruct/land lease with their knowledge so no surprises later.

 

The pronlem is it can be hard to get Thais to have such talks/do such planning. Many think  it is bad luck. 

I think your last sentence says an awful lot Sheryl.

[ouredd]

Another question on this topic,I've read all the posts.I bought my house before marrying my wife with company I set up.over the years changed to 30 year lease then eventually put it in her name.Have you any more rights buying before marrying,people spoke about I had a year to sell it but things change everyday here.She has a 35 year old daughter,probably go and see lawyer with wife and get things put in writing,also have house up the jungle that i bought but in wives name

[NoshowJones]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I think some posters missed the fact that there are children. In the absence of a will their rights precede that of her brothers assuming your wife has sole legal ownership of the house to begin with (something you should verify). 

 

 

She has sole legal ownership of the house, I'm just a bit worried about the influence her daughters friend may have on her.