Federal Judge Strikes Down Part of Montana’s Far-Reaching Anti-Vax Law

[Scott]

In a victory for public health advocates, a federal judge in Montana has blocked the state from implementing a law that would make it illegal for hospitals to ask employees if they are vaccinated. The measure, which passed last year, was the country’s most extreme anti-vaccination law.

 

Health care providers in Montana had sued the state over the law, arguing that it violates constitutional protections for disabled Americans. On Friday, U.S. District Judge Donald W. Molloy agreed with them.

https://www.propublica.org/article/federal-judge-strikes-down-part-of-montana-anti-vax-law

 

[ozimoron]

Sanity prevails.

[Scott]

Troll post removed.

 

[KhunLA]

'My Body, My Choice' ... apparently not all are equal.

[Chomper Higgot]

10 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

'My Body, My Choice' ... apparently not all are equal.

Then go work somewhere where your choice and your body don’t put the health and life of others at risk.

[Credo]

34 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

'My Body, My Choice' ... apparently not all are equal.

It's still your body, your choice.  If you don't want the vaccine, no one will make you get it.  Go find a different job.  It's entirely up to you.   

 

[JonnyF]

43 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Then go work somewhere where your choice and your body don’t put the health and life of others at risk.

You do realize the vaccines do not stop you catching, or transmitting the virus? They reduce the symptoms for the person who has taken the vaccine.

 

There is no place for these type of fascist policies that undermine bodily autonomy in modern, democratic societies. 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

You do realize the vaccines do not stop you catching, or transmitting the virus? They reduce the symptoms for the person who has taken the vaccine.

 

There is no place for these type of fascist policies that undermine bodily autonomy in modern, democratic societies. 

Vaccines significantly reduce the viral load when infected after vaccination.

 

Viral load is a factor is transmission to others.

 

I suggest you revisit the meaning of fascism.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Chomper Higgot

[Tug]

Good !

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Vaccines significantly reduce the viral load when infected after vaccination.

 

Viral load is a factor is transmission to others.

 

I suggest you revisit the meaning of fascism.

 

 

The left's ultra authoritarian policies of forcing people to be injected with vaccines that were rushed through and can cause significant harm to certain individuals, under the threat of losing their livelihood is an absolute disgrace. The fact that you still support it when so many governments around the world have clearly rolled back on such totalitarian strategies is telling.

 

Such policies are very much in line with some core aspects of fascism, such as controlling the lives of the masses under some form of government threat, suppressing freedom of individual choice, and disdain for human rights.

[swm59nj]

Yes you do have the freedom to make your own health choices.  But there also has to be common sense.  Health care workers need to be vaccinated to protect others because they are at much higher risk. 
And the people that don’t take precautions against Covid.  What it comes down to,  they don’t care about other people. 

[jtrump]

23 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

You do realize the vaccines do not stop you catching, or transmitting the virus? They reduce the symptoms for the person who has taken the vaccine.

 

There is no place for these type of fascist policies that undermine bodily autonomy in modern, democratic societies. 

Reducing the symptoms actually has never been proven. What has been proven are the many people dying from blood clots and pregnant women losing their babies.  This junk was never tested for efficacy, that is the first test you do for a vaccine.  Pfizer admitted this in court.  If efficacy wasn't tested you can bet no side effects were tested either.  People need to wake up and understand this was a sham by big pharma to advance the field of mRNA technology and they used the world as their testing grounds.

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, swm59nj said:

Yes you do have the freedom to make your own health choices.  But there also has to be common sense.  Health care workers need to be vaccinated to protect others because they are at much higher risk. 
And the people that don’t take precautions against Covid.  What it comes down to,  they don’t care about other people. 

So what about people who have caught Covid multiple times and therefore have natural immunity that is far more effective than some rushed through vaccines?

 

They still need to be injected against their will under the threat of government penalties like loss of livelihood?

[jtrump]

5 minutes ago, swm59nj said:

Yes you do have the freedom to make your own health choices.  But there also has to be common sense.  Health care workers need to be vaccinated to protect others because they are at much higher risk. 
And the people that don’t take precautions against Covid.  What it comes down to,  they don’t care about other people. 

Actually, they aren't even vaccines as vaccines prevent the contraction of diseases.  FDA changed their long standing definition of the word vaccine to accommodate these so-called vaccines.  There is no proven science that even shows they lessen the symptoms. 

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, jtrump said:

Reducing the symptoms actually has never been proven. What has been proven are the many people dying from blood clots and pregnant women losing their babies.  This junk was never tested for efficacy, that is the first test you do for a vaccine.  Pfizer admitted this in court.  If efficacy wasn't tested you can bet no side effects were tested either.  People need to wake up and understand this was a sham by big pharma to advance the field of mRNA technology and they used the world as their testing grounds.

It's incredible how Africa did so well without much in the way of vaccines.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/health/covid-africa-deaths.html

 

That people are still trying to force these vaccines on others by claiming they are harming others (you're going to kill Granny etc.) is actually an insult to the intelligence. Some people just love telling other people what to do I guess.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It's incredible how Africa did so well without much in the way of vaccines.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/health/covid-africa-deaths.html

 

That people are still trying to force these vaccines on others by claiming they are harming others (you're going to kill Granny etc.) is actually an insult to the intelligence. Some people just love telling other people what to do I guess.

There is a huge amount of statistical evidence to show that the covid vaccinie saved lives. In the USA areas where vaccination was less prevalent had far higher death rates. The death rates only started to diverge after the covid vaccines became available. That tell you anything?

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

'My Body, My Choice' ... apparently not all are equal.

In a way, you're right. Not all people are equal. For instance, the immunocompromised in hospitals don't have immune systems that are the equal of others. They need to be protected from the unvaccinated.

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

There is a huge amount of statistical evidence to show that the covid vaccinie saved lives. In the USA areas where vaccination was less prevalent had far higher death rates. The death rates only started to diverge after the covid vaccines became available. That tell you anything?

It tells me statistics can be used to prove just about anything when there are so many other factors involved. It doesn't justify injecting people with multiple rushed through vaccines against their will. 

 

Africa did fine without vaccines. That tell you anything?

[placeholder]

46 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

You do realize the vaccines do not stop you catching, or transmitting the virus? They reduce the symptoms for the person who has taken the vaccine.

 

There is no place for these type of fascist policies that undermine bodily autonomy in modern, democratic societies. 

Really?

 

New research suggests COVID-19 vaccines can slow the spread of disease, even with Omicron

https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/new-research-proves-covid-19-vaccines-can-slow-spread-disease-even-omicron

 

Fully vaccinated less likely to pass COVID-19 to others

https://www.osfhealthcare.org/blog/fully-vaccinated-less-likely-to-pass-covid-19-to-others/

 

One dose of COVID-19 vaccine can cut household transmission by up to half

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/one-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-can-cut-household-transmission-by-up-to-half

 

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It tells me statistics can be used to prove just about anything when there are so many other factors involved. It doesn't justify injecting people with multiple rushed through vaccines against their will. 

 

Africa did fine without vaccines. That tell you anything?

Did you actually read the article?

There's one country in sub-Saharan Africa that has an extensive public health system that records most deaths. That country is South Africa.

From the article:

" And it’s clear from the data that Covid has killed a great many people in that country, far more than the reported virus deaths. Excess mortality data show that between May 2020 and September 2021, some 250,000 more people died from natural causes than was predicted for that time period, based on the pattern in previous years.Surges in death rates match those in Covid cases, suggesting the virus was the culprit. "

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/health/covid-africa-deaths.html

Also, in that article it's noted that the average age of Sub saharan africans is 19. Whereas the average age of Europeans is 43 and of Americans 38. 

It's hardly the unambiguous evidence you assume it to be.

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

It tells me statistics can be used to prove just about anything when there are so many other factors involved. It doesn't justify injecting people with multiple rushed through vaccines against their will. 

 

Africa did fine without vaccines. That tell you anything?

It's always the cheap and dishonest recourse of people like you. Ignorance based generalizations like the ones you posted about statistics. These results are either published in high level peer reviewed journals or by public health services. Stop telling falsehoods. Or come up with proof that the scientists are the ones who are lying. 

[placeholder]

35 minutes ago, jtrump said:

 There is no proven science that even shows they lessen the symptoms. 

This is a quote from the landing page of World News

"Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source."

Put up or....

[placeholder]

47 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

The left's ultra authoritarian policies of forcing people to be injected with vaccines that were rushed through and can cause significant harm to certain individuals, under the threat of losing their livelihood is an absolute disgrace. The fact that you still support it when so many governments around the world have clearly rolled back on such totalitarian strategies is telling.

 

Such policies are very much in line with some core aspects of fascism, such as controlling the lives of the masses under some form of government threat, suppressing freedom of individual choice, and disdain for human rights.

Mandatory vaccination policies have been in place in most developed nations for at least 100 years. Stop with the BS about fascism. 

And stop with the BS about   "vaccines that were rushed through and can cause significant harm to certain individuals"

There is at this point a huge amount of evidence proving that the benefits of covid-19 vaccination far outweigh the risks. There's a reason why there are Departments of Public Health throughout the world. And no, it's not part of some fascist plot to oppress free individuals. It's because there are lots of dangerous diseases out there that are transmissible. And you don't have the right to imperil others by spreading those diseases.

[JonnyF]

33 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Mandatory vaccination policies have been in place in most developed nations for at least 100 years. Stop with the BS about fascism. 

And stop with the BS about   "vaccines that were rushed through and can cause significant harm to certain individuals"

There is at this point a huge amount of evidence proving that the benefits of covid-19 vaccination far outweigh the risks. There's a reason why there are Departments of Public Health throughout the world. And no, it's not part of some fascist plot to oppress free individuals. It's because there are lots of dangerous diseases out there that are transmissible. And you don't have the right to imperil others by spreading those diseases.

You still didn't answer my question about why Africa did so well with such limited access to the vaccines. Kind of blows up your argument, doesn't it.

 

Mandatory vaccinations have historically been for extremely serious diseases, and the vaccines were developed and proven over many years. Not something that is now basically a flu, and vaccines that were rushed through and have many side effects and even cause death. Huge difference.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Did you actually read the article?

There's one country in sub-Saharan Africa that has an extensive public health system that records most deaths. That country is South Africa.

From the article:

" And it’s clear from the data that Covid has killed a great many people in that country, far more than the reported virus deaths. Excess mortality data show that between May 2020 and September 2021, some 250,000 more people died from natural causes than was predicted for that time period, based on the pattern in previous years.Surges in death rates match those in Covid cases, suggesting the virus was the culprit. "

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/23/health/covid-africa-deaths.html

Also, in that article it's noted that the average age of Sub saharan africans is 19. Whereas the average age of Europeans is 43 and of Americans 38. 

It's hardly the unambiguous evidence you assume it to be.

Huge assumptions and very skewed analysis of the data to suit an agenda.

 

Fortunately more liberal and enlightened governments around the world have seen the folly of such ridiculously authoritarian policies and abandoned them.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-60575519

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

The left's ultra authoritarian policies of forcing people to be injected with vaccines that were rushed through and can cause significant harm to certain individuals, under the threat of losing their livelihood is an absolute disgrace. The fact that you still support it when so many governments around the world have clearly rolled back on such totalitarian strategies is telling.

 

Such policies are very much in line with some core aspects of fascism, such as controlling the lives of the masses under some form of government threat, suppressing freedom of individual choice, and disdain for human rights.

Where in this judgement is anyone being forced to be injected with any vaccine.

 

Calm your baseless outrage.

[Chomper Higgot]

44 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

You still didn't answer my question about why Africa did so well with such limited access to the vaccines. Kind of blows up your argument, doesn't it.

 

Mandatory vaccinations have historically been for extremely serious diseases, and the vaccines were developed and proven over many years. Not something that is now basically a flu, and vaccines that were rushed through and have many side effects and even cause death. Huge difference.

COVID is not a flu.

 

Refer forum rules on disseminating misinformation.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, jtrump said:

Actually, they aren't even vaccines as vaccines prevent the contraction of diseases.  FDA changed their long standing definition of the word vaccine to accommodate these so-called vaccines.  There is no proven science that even shows they lessen the symptoms. 

Vaccines do not prevent infection, the prime the immune system to be ready when infection occurs.

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

You still didn't answer my question about why Africa did so well with such limited access to the vaccines. Kind of blows up your argument, doesn't it.

 

Mandatory vaccinations have historically been for extremely serious diseases, and the vaccines were developed and proven over many years. Not something that is now basically a flu, and vaccines that were rushed through and have many side effects and even cause death. Huge difference.

I did answer that question. I pointed out that the data that you cite, if indeed it even qualifies as data, is contradicted by a sub-Saharan country that actually does record data carefully.

 

There is a huge amount of data at this point on the covid vaccines. All protocols were observed. The reason vaccines used to take so long to develop is that the technology and the knowledge didn't exist back when. The entire genome of the covid-19 virus was deciphered almost immediately. This is what's known as progress.

Edited December 14, 2022 by placeholder

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Huge assumptions and very skewed analysis of the data to suit an agenda.

 

Fortunately more liberal and enlightened governments around the world have seen the folly of such ridiculously authoritarian policies and abandoned them.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-60575519

 

 

I guess it's necessary to remind you of what is written on the World News landing page:

"Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source."

Where's your evidence? You've got nothing.