Getting withholding tax back from interest payment

[kiever]

Hello , I have deposit account and I want to get back withholding taxes back by filling tax return in January for 2022. I’m expat living in Los without any other income. I have tax id already. After filling tax return , what I need to provide to revenue department to get back withholding tax ? 
a bank statement that showing withholding taxes would be enough or I should get another certificate or document from bank regarding withholding taxes ? What I should say bank for that ?

[foreverlomsak]

Been thinking down that lines as well, my concern is how many years back can the Thai Revenue Department assess you for no declaration of income and non-payment of taxes on the income that you bring into the country, been here since 2005.

 

Extract from Thai personal tax rules on the Internet, Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th).

1.Taxable Person

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. 

 

There is no mention under types income that are taxable, of "pensions" being taxable or alternatively not being taxable, would I be opening a large can of worms if I was to try to claim back the tax withholding on the bank interest? 

Yes, I know that income comes under the "Double Taxation" agreement, but the current UK agreement (2018) allows for taxation in both countries on your income with very little UK refund (prior to my move here and subsequent "retirement" the agreement was simple "Income in UK taxed UK, income in Thailand taxed in Thailand").

[kiever]

I am wondering what kind of document I should take from bank and I show withheld taxes  revenue department ?just bank statement enough?

[prakhonchai nick]

I would recommend you don't stir up a hornets nest!

[CMBob]

I've done it a few times, twice online and the last time (about 3 years ago) in person at the proper revenue office here in CM.  What they want to see is your Tax ID card, likely your passport (don't remember), and a statement from the bank showing the interest withheld.  I could no longer do it online last time so went to the proper revenue office and the lady there did the filings for me (I think I claimed 2 years that time) so I think two returns were filed.  There was no charge for this.

You're allowed to claim back 3 years so this January I likely will do that.  Not all that much given the lousy interest rates for that time period but, what the heck, worth the effort to get 15k+ baht back.  The bank (in my case, SCB) knew what I was looking for when I asked for the statements showing interest withheld. 

 

How you get the money back has changed over time.  The first couple of times, the revenue department just deposited the money directly into my SCB bank account.  The last time I went I ended up with some Kasikorn bank voucher sent to me in the mail so I had to go find a Kasikorn bank to get those funds.  Recently I've read it's changed again....but don't remember what the new deal is (it won't matter, it'll work somehow).

 

When I say the "proper" revenue office, I first went to the revenue office up on Chotana Road here in CM where I got the tax id number.  They told me to go to the revenue office on Charoen Phratet (near Chang Klan road).  When I got there, there were two big buildings labelled #1 on the left and #2 on the right.  I took a guess and went into #2 and the lady there filed the returns for me (but, when finished, told me next time to go to the proper office which for me was the #1 building). 

[Sheryl]

There is a form you get from the bank. Just tell them tax form. They'll know. This, your passport and tax number.

 

It seems to go smoothly in locations with many foreign retirees. Everytime I have done it (province with almost no foreign retirees) there was a prolonged interrogation (multiple ttipsthere) demanding to know where my income comes from. Had to show years of credit advices showing transfers from abroad and even that was not enough until eventually referred up the chain to an officisl who understood that there Rd retired foreigners living in Thailand. Following year, same. May skip it next year as just not worth the hassle, time and aggravation.

[TigerandDog]

  On 12/21/2022 at 4:21 AM, kiever said:

I am wondering what kind of document I should take from bank and I show withheld taxes  revenue department ?just bank statement enough?

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No, you will need to get a letter/form from your bank showing the amount of interest earned for the year and the total amount of tax deducted. You should also take your Thai tax ID No. with you as well as your passport/pink ID card. That's all I've been doing at my local revenue office for the last 8 years. No problems except for last year when the local revenue office lost the document from the bank and sent teh tax return without any support documentation. Contacted the Provincial revenue office and they just asked me to provide them with a copy of the bank statements. Received my return 3 weeks later.

[Mickeymaus]

@CMBob gave you the answer already. In respect of the 3 years I remember that my bank couldn't provide the data for 3 years. But anyhow. To avoid this in the future give your tax id to the bank. 

[Mickeymaus]

  On 12/21/2022 at 4:07 AM, foreverlomsak said:

Been thinking down that lines as well, my concern is how many years back can the Thai Revenue Department assess you for no declaration of income and non-payment of taxes on the income that you bring into the country, been here since 2005.

 

Extract from Thai personal tax rules on the Internet, Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th).

1.Taxable Person

Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. 

 

There is no mention under types income that are taxable, of "pensions" being taxable or alternatively not being taxable, would I be opening a large can of worms if I was to try to claim back the tax withholding on the bank interest? 

Yes, I know that income comes under the "Double Taxation" agreement, but the current UK agreement (2018) allows for taxation in both countries on your income with very little UK refund (prior to my move here and subsequent "retirement" the agreement was simple "Income in UK taxed UK, income in Thailand taxed in Thailand").

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I had no problems. But I had to fill out a questionnaire. Questions were for instance how I finance my life here and if I get a pension. But I needed the tax ID some years later anyway. My European bank insisted on it after very many years. 

[Geir Rasch]

First you should make sure that your bank account are connected to your tax ID, then Revenue Office will know what tax are collected in your name. Else you need a document from the bank to identify the tax you have paid.
Banks are obliged to tax deduction on interest from bank accounts, but there is no tax on interest below 25.000 bath. 
If you pay tax to Thailand you can claim that this tax to be part of your total tax (other tax reduced), or you get returned the tax paid.

[foreverlomsak]

  On 12/21/2022 at 12:48 PM, Geir Rasch said:

Banks are obliged to tax deduction on interest from bank accounts, but there is no tax on interest below 25.000 bath. 

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My 3 accounts (2 different banks) combined are miles below that and all 3 withhold tax at 15%.

 

  On 12/21/2022 at 12:48 PM, Geir Rasch said:

If you pay tax to Thailand you can claim that this tax to be part of your total tax (other tax reduced), or you get returned the tax paid

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Not according to the current UK/Thailand double taxation rules (changed 2018 I think), previously, you were taxed in the UK on your UK income and in Thailand on your Thailand income.

You can only get a partial refund in the UK for tax paid in Thailand on civil service pensions only.

[DrJoy]

  On 12/21/2022 at 12:48 PM, Geir Rasch said:

25.000

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Its 20,000 THB/ year

[nigelforbes]

This is a double edged sword.

 

It's easy enough to reclaim tax paid on earned bank interest, just ask your bank for a statement of interest earned and tax paid. Take that to The local Revenue Office and they will help you complete a tax return and the money will be refunded to you, in accordance with the tax rules.

 

BUT

 

When you complete the tax return you are declaring your income in Thailand. If you receive UK State pension during the same year it was earned, that is also considered to be income which should be declared. Some people will tell you that UK State Pension is already taxed in the UK or is not taxable in Thailand, both of those statements are untrue. The choice is yours, file the tax return and reclaim the tax on bank interest but at the risk of having to declare pension income. In my case, my UK State pension is paid directly into Bangkok Bank in Thailand. But Thai tax deductions are such that I escape virtually all tax, the first 150K baht is zero rated for tax, the personal allowance for over 65 year olds means another 90k is tax free. Further allowances exist for spouse, children, health insurance premiums, life insurance, mortgage payments, etc etc. US Social Security Retirements benefits are not taxable in Thailand so that's excluded income.

 

BTW I know this issue of taxing UK pensions here in Thailand is very emotional for some posters so I'm not going to enter into any debate on the subject. If you don't believe what I have written, please go ask any Revenue office in Thailand, they are extremely helpful and very approachable.

 

[CMBob]

I have accounts in both Siam Commercial Bank and Bangkok Bank and each bank is withholding the 15% on interest sums far below the figures noted above (i.e., I've read several times that the banks don't do the withholding if the total interest paid is less than 20k or 25k baht....but that's not my experience with either bank mentioned).

I also have read several times that a bank will stop withholding the 15% tax if you show them your tax ID card/number; again, that's not my experience (I provided it to Siam Commercial Bank, explained that I understood that no withholding should then occur, and the bank branch manager told me that I was wrong and they would withhold the 15% as they've always done).  I haven't attempted as yet to get Bangkok Bank to stop the withholding by providing my tax ID number.

[Mickeymaus]

  On 12/21/2022 at 4:39 PM, CMBob said:

I have accounts in both Siam Commercial Bank and Bangkok Bank and each bank is withholding the 15% on interest sums far below the figures noted above (i.e., I've read several times that the banks don't do the withholding if the total interest paid is less than 20k or 25k baht....but that's not my experience with either bank mentioned).

I also have read several times that a bank will stop withholding the 15% tax if you show them your tax ID card/number; again, that's not my experience (I provided it to Siam Commercial Bank, explained that I understood that no withholding should then occur, and the bank branch manager told me that I was wrong and they would withhold the 15% as they've always done).  I haven't attempted as yet to get Bangkok Bank to stop the withholding by providing my tax ID number.

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No problems at Bangkok Bank and Krungsri. At Krungsri it didn't work at the beginning. I complained at the manager and they refunded me the tax payments. Since the refund came from Krungsri I got it later refunded by the revenue department again. I didn't complain ????

 

[nigelforbes]

  On 12/21/2022 at 2:16 PM, nigelforbes said:

This is a double edged sword.

 

It's easy enough to reclaim tax paid on earned bank interest, just ask your bank for a statement of interest earned and tax paid. Take that to The local Revenue Office and they will help you complete a tax return and the money will be refunded to you, in accordance with the tax rules.

 

BUT

 

When you complete the tax return you are declaring your income in Thailand. If you receive UK State pension during the same year it was earned, that is also considered to be income which should be declared. Some people will tell you that UK State Pension is already taxed in the UK or is not taxable in Thailand, both of those statements are untrue. The choice is yours, file the tax return and reclaim the tax on bank interest but at the risk of having to declare pension income. In my case, my UK State pension is paid directly into Bangkok Bank in Thailand. But Thai tax deductions are such that I escape virtually all tax, the first 150K baht is zero rated for tax, the personal allowance for over 65 year olds means another 90k is tax free. Further allowances exist for spouse, children, health insurance premiums, life insurance, mortgage payments, etc etc. US Social Security Retirements benefits are not taxable in Thailand so that's excluded income.

 

BTW I know this issue of taxing UK pensions here in Thailand is very emotional for some posters so I'm not going to enter into any debate on the subject. If you don't believe what I have written, please go ask any Revenue office in Thailand, they are extremely helpful and very approachable.

 

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I forgot to add.....the Dual Tax Agreement (DTA) doesn't exclude the UK State Pension from tax, only government/Civil Service Pensions.

[Geir Rasch]

  On 12/21/2022 at 1:52 PM, foreverlomsak said:

My 3 accounts (2 different banks) combined are miles below that and all 3 withhold tax at 15%.

 

Not according to the current UK/Thailand double taxation rules (changed 2018 I think), previously, you were taxed in the UK on your UK income and in Thailand on your Thailand income.

You can only get a partial refund in the UK for tax paid in Thailand on civil service pensions only.

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This is tax on thai income. You do not pay tax to Thailand and this income shall not be taxed in UK (according to your statement). You get deducted tax back from Revenue Office.

[Geir Rasch]

  On 12/21/2022 at 4:39 PM, CMBob said:

 I haven't attempted as yet to get Bangkok Bank to stop the withholding by providing my tax ID number.

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The bank will not stop withholding tax, but when your bank account are linked to your tax ID, revenue office will know what tax are related to you. Should be easier to get money back, I guess,

[nigelforbes]

  On 12/22/2022 at 4:46 AM, Geir Rasch said:

The bank will not stop withholding tax, but when your bank account are linked to your tax ID, revenue office will know what tax are related to you. Should be easier to get money back, I guess,

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My bank did stop deducting tax as soon as they realized that my tax ID was incorrectly notated on their systems, now, the first 20k is free of deductions but not all banks will do this.

[DrJoy]

  On 12/21/2022 at 10:31 PM, Mickeymaus said:

No problems at Bangkok Bank and Krungsri. At Krungsri it didn't work at the beginning. I complained at the manager and they refunded me the tax payments.

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I had a similar experience with Krungsri, now no tax is deducted.

[DrJoy]

  On 12/21/2022 at 4:39 PM, CMBob said:

I have accounts in both Siam Commercial Bank and Bangkok Bank and each bank is withholding the 15% on interest sums far below the figures noted above

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Your 13 digit tax id number has to be uploaded in your account, on their system.

 

Once done successfully, no tax will be withheld for 20,000 THB interest that you earn.

 

20k thb is an annual limit across all banks.

 

Tax on fixed deposits is compulsory from the 1st Baht.

[Mickeymaus]

  On 12/22/2022 at 4:46 AM, Geir Rasch said:

The bank will not stop withholding tax, but when your bank account are linked to your tax ID, revenue office will know what tax are related to you. Should be easier to get money back, I guess,

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The bank will not deduct withholding tax (15 %) if you give them your tax ID at least until a certain limit (20.000 Baht) is reached.

 

One has to understand the history of this taxation. Years ago you must have been stupid if you paid taxes on interest income. This tax free limit was valid for each bank account. And so the people (me included) had many bank accounts. Then sadly they changed this to todays regulation ????????????. 

 

If you work here for instance you can decide if you want to use the 20.000 Baht regulation or if you want to add your interest income to the other income and pay taxes on this amount. 

[Photoguy21]

Unless the tax is significant I wouldn't bother. You could give yourself far more problems than it would be worth.

[Mickeymaus]

  On 12/22/2022 at 5:33 AM, Photoguy21 said:

Unless the tax is significant I wouldn't bother. You could give yourself far more problems than it would be worth.

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I was worried too especially when I had to fill out the questionnaire (Jomtien). The main focus there was whether I get a pension and from where.

 

If you transfer it to a Thai account directly then this is income transferred in the same year when it occurs and then you will be interesting to them. There were also questions how I finance my life here. For instance if you don't get a pension.

 

But as I said before. In the meantime a bank in Europe said that if I don't give them a Thai tax ID they will close my accounts. And so it was good that I had it already. 

[Photoguy21]

  On 12/22/2022 at 5:51 AM, Mickeymaus said:

I was worried too especially when I had to fill out the questionnaire (Jomtien). The main focus there was whether I get a pension and from where.

 

If you transfer it to a Thai account directly then this is income transferred in the same year when it occurs and then you will be interesting to them. There were also questions how I finance my life here. For instance if you don't get a pension.

 

But as I said before. In the meantime a bank in Europe said that if I don't give them a Thai tax ID they will close my accounts. And so it was good that I had it already. 

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If you have an account in your home country get it deposited there. You can transfer it to your local account from there.

[kiever]

  On 12/21/2022 at 8:31 AM, Sheryl said:

There is a form you get from the bank. Just tell them tax form. They'll know. This, your passport and tax number.

 

It seems to go smoothly in locations with many foreign retirees. Everytime I have done it (province with almost no foreign retirees) there was a prolonged interrogation (multiple ttipsthere) demanding to know where my income comes from. Had to show years of credit advices showing transfers from abroad and even that was not enough until eventually referred up the chain to an officisl who understood that there Rd retired foreigners living in Thailand. Following year, same. May skip it next year as just not worth the hassle, time and aggravation.

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Thank you , how I can say this tax form in Thai ? Sometimes they don’t understand what I want and difficult to explain in English. And can I get this tax form now for 2022 or I should wait until 2023 January ?

[Sheryl]

  On 12/23/2022 at 3:49 AM, kiever said:

Thank you , how I can say this tax form in Thai ? Sometimes they don’t understand what I want and difficult to explain in English. And can I get this tax form now for 2022 or I should wait until 2023 January ?

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The word for tax in Thai is pah-see

 

Have someone wrote it down for you in Thai

 

Usually available in January

 

 

 

[kiever]

  On 12/23/2022 at 4:44 AM, Sheryl said:

The word for tax in Thai is pah-see

 

Have someone wrote it down for you in Thai

 

Usually available in January

 

 

 

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This is the correct form ? I got from my bank today 

[JimGant]

  On 12/21/2022 at 2:16 PM, nigelforbes said:

BTW I know this issue of taxing UK pensions here in Thailand is very emotional for some posters so I'm not going to enter into any debate on the subject.

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OK. Please explain this quote from the UK-Thai tax treaty:

 

  Quote

(a) Any pension paid by the Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to any individual in respect of services of a governmental nature rendered to that State or subdivision or local authority thereof shall be taxable only in that State.
(b) However, such pension shall be taxable only in the other contracting State if the recipient is a national of and a resident of that State.

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Sounds like the Brit tax treaty with Thailand is similar to most OECD treaties, namely, gov't pensions are only taxable by the country paying them. For sure, my US Air Force pension, plus social security pension (which, I guess, is like the UK state pension) are exempt from Thai taxation. Only Norway allows Thailand to tax its gov't pensions paid to Norwegian residents of Thailand (but this tax is credible against Norwegian taxes on same income).

 

  Quote

May skip it next year as just not worth the hassle, time and aggravation.

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Best advise yet, unless you've got millions earning interest in Thailand. And for Yanks -- you can take a tax credit on your US taxes for Thai withholding taxes. Of course, if you're not wealthy enough to pay US taxes --maybe you do really need whatever satang you can manage...

[nigelforbes]

  On 12/23/2022 at 7:38 AM, JimGant said:

OK. Please explain this quote from the UK-Thai tax treaty:

 

Sounds like the Brit tax treaty with Thailand is similar to most OECD treaties, namely, gov't pensions are only taxable by the country paying them. For sure, my US Air Force pension, plus social security pension (which, I guess, is like the UK state pension) are exempt from Thai taxation. Only Norway allows Thailand to tax its gov't pensions paid to Norwegian residents of Thailand (but this tax is credible against Norwegian taxes on same income).

 

Best advise yet, unless you've got millions earning interest in Thailand. And for Yanks -- you can take a tax credit on your US taxes for Thai withholding taxes. Of course, if you're not wealthy enough to pay US taxes --maybe you do really need whatever satang you can manage...

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I said I wasn't going to debate this, I'll make one exception for you. 

 

US pensions are NOT taxable by treaty, SSc payments are strictly not touchable here and the treaty is explicit on that point.

 

"individual in respect of services of a governmental nature rendered to that State or subdivision". This refers to people who have been employed by governement etc and paid a pension by them as a result. It does not refer to UK State Pension. Para 19 of the treaty confirms as I recall.