3 minutes ago, The Old Bull said:

Americans like to shoot things. Thats their favorite way to solve problems , with a gun.

Remember when the USSR shot down the U2 spy plane, they are all at it.

What I don't understand is how do you send a balloon anywhere , doesn't it only go where the wind takes it?

The higher upper  streams is quite predictable due to seasons.

Trolling meme removed

 

Also a post from an unapproved source and a reply

I don't know if there was or was not three balloons during the Trump administration.  That really does not matter.  You don't know any of the details as to exactly where or how long the supposedly balloons entered the USA.

By contrast we know the current balloon was first spotted in Montana. It was shot down over the Atlantic.  That is a distance of 3,700 KM.  

For anyone who has ever visited Montana it is 380,000 square kilometers and has 1.1 million people.  It is only slightly more populated per square KM than the Atlantic Ocean. 

So this nonsense about wanting to wait until it was not over a populated area is nonsense.  There would have been vast areas over Montana where it could have been shot down that were totally unpopulated. 

Montana is a vast area of open space, situated in the northwest portion of the United States. It may be the fourth biggest state in the country in terms of sheer size, but its population statistics are a testament to the geography of Montana, most of which is not suitable for large development.

10 hours ago, nauseus said:

Once again - no evidence - just hearsay with no detail. If there were truly three previously under Trump then at least one of them would have made the news. I expect that The Billings Gazette will know. But will they tell?!

Once again blame Trump for all the wrong doing's in the world. It wasn't Trump it was Obama and guess? was VP???

the DOD in the U.S - Pentagon people claim no real strategic information can be obtained from these balloons that the Chinese do not already have from their 260 orbiting Satellites.  Lets face it, a balloon 60,000 feet in the air is not a hazard to commercial aircraft or to U.S. intelligence.  Just another non-issue for congress and senate to cry about while they earn their money and do nothing for the American people they are elected to represent

What a bunch of armchair experts.

 

I suspect that the pentagon, CIA, NSA and several other government agencies know a whole lot more about Chinese balloons that all the hot air being blown on this site.  Biden listens to real experts who study these type events, technology, etc for decades and have forgotten more about it all than all the arm chair experts on an internet forum could ever hope to know..

 

So how about just give credit where credit is due.  If you are the POTUS ask the experts their opinion as to how and when it would be best to shoot the thing down and then let them do their job.  Don't go off half cocked or pretend that you and you alone know how to handle every situation that comes up.  You don't.

 

Good job President Biden.  Thank you for taking the sane rational approach by listening to experienced experts  who actually know what they are talking about.

 

Talk about hyped excitement over nothing.  Amazing.  The US response?  Hit it with a missile.
That was stupid.  Fire a few bullets through the balloon once it was over the Atlantic and then wait for it to drop and then recover the equipment.

If it's "spy" equipment - then "Tada!" A Geo-Political win.
If it's weather equipment - then, admit it and let the Chinese come pick up their equipment.

Instead they hit the equipment dangling from the balloon with a missile.  Well, so much for recovering any intel. 

Now we're going to be deluged with "China China China" just like we're deluged with "Russia Russia Russia."   The US and the West just has to have 'enemies' everywhere.  It keeps arms manufacturers busy.  They could have downed the balloon with a couple hundred dollars worth of 20mm shells.  Instead they used a 188 pound AIM-9X Sidewinder missile at the cost of somewhere between $370K to $470K USD.

1 hour ago, Salerno said:

By riding the various currents that flow at different heights.

Not this one.

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chinese-spy-balloon-has-unexpected-maneuverability/

 

"We know that it’s a surveillance balloon.... We know this is a Chinese balloon and that it has the ability to maneuver.”

This maneuverability is beyond the capabilities of most high-altitude balloons, says John Villasenor, director of the Institute for Technology, Law and Policy and a professor of electrical engineering, law, public policy and management at the University of California, Los Angeles. "

40 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

I don't know if there was or was not three balloons during the Trump administration.  That really does not matter.  You don't know any of the details as to exactly where or how long the supposedly balloons entered the USA.

By contrast we know the current balloon was first spotted in Montana. It was shot down over the Atlantic.  That is a distance of 3,700 KM.  

For anyone who has ever visited Montana it is 380,000 square kilometers and has 1.1 million people.  It is only slightly more populated per square KM than the Atlantic Ocean. 

So this nonsense about wanting to wait until it was not over a populated area is nonsense.  There would have been vast areas over Montana where it could have been shot down that were totally unpopulated. 

Montana is a vast area of open space, situated in the northwest portion of the United States. It may be the fourth biggest state in the country in terms of sheer size, but its population statistics are a testament to the geography of Montana, most of which is not suitable for large development.

Did it occur to you that if shot down over land even if nobody got hit that the debris would likely be smashed to bits after falling 60000 ft to earth where as the experts decided to do it over shallow water where they could and already have recoverd the wreckage as they likely want to take a closer look at the technology etc inside?  I am sure that the true experts are well aware of Montana's population and that may have well been discussed and rejected as not the best course of action.

5 minutes ago, connda said:

Talk about hyped excitement over nothing.  Amazing.  The US response?  Hit it with a missile.
That was stupid.  Fire a few bullets through the balloon once it was over the Atlantic and then wait for it to drop and then recover the equipment.

If it's "spy" equipment - then "Tada!" A Geo-Political win.
If it's weather equipment - then, admit it and let the Chinese come pick up their equipment.

Instead they hit the equipment dangling from the balloon with a missile.  Well, so much for recovering any intel. 

Now we're going to be deluged with "China China China" just like we're deluged with "Russia Russia Russia."   The US and the West just has to have 'enemies' everywhere.  It keeps arms manufacturers busy.  They could have downed the balloon with a couple hundred dollars worth of 20mm shells.  Instead they used a 188 pound AIM-9X Sidewinder missile at the cost of somewhere between $370K to $470K USD.

Don't you just love the keyboard warriors/experts who talk confidently about things they know NOTHING about!

The US Govt is very much like a Thai BG, if their lips are moving, they're probably lying. 

21 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Not this one.

Without the specifics of the flight path I see little in that article that refutes my post, there is no suggestion it went against the wind, what it is suggesting is it had more control than typical weather balloons which lends weight to the allegation it was a spy balloon rather than a weather balloon as claimed by China.

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

I don't know if there was or was not three balloons during the Trump administration.  That really does not matter.  You don't know any of the details as to exactly where or how long the supposedly balloons entered the USA.

By contrast we know the current balloon was first spotted in Montana. It was shot down over the Atlantic.  That is a distance of 3,700 KM.  

For anyone who has ever visited Montana it is 380,000 square kilometers and has 1.1 million people.  It is only slightly more populated per square KM than the Atlantic Ocean. 

So this nonsense about wanting to wait until it was not over a populated area is nonsense.  There would have been vast areas over Montana where it could have been shot down that were totally unpopulated. 

Montana is a vast area of open space, situated in the northwest portion of the United States. It may be the fourth biggest state in the country in terms of sheer size, but its population statistics are a testament to the geography of Montana, most of which is not suitable for large development.

Misplaced concern of an alleged spy ballon that has been shot down rather than 3 alleged spy ballons not shot down. Weird thinking of the Maga community. 

8 minutes ago, Salerno said:

Without the specifics of the flight path I see little in that article that refutes my post, there is no suggestion it went against the wind, what it is suggesting is it had more control than typical weather balloons which lends weight to the allegation it was a spy balloon rather than a weather balloon as claimed by China.

It wasn't an attempt to refute your post but to reveal what, I think for most of us, is new info about additional maneuverability capabilities of this type of balloons.

Obviously, having propulsion that , in addition to lateral movement, also allows for horizontal movement greatly adds to the options the controller of the balloon has wrt positioning it.

Good to see the NABAT (Not As Bad As Trump) team out in full force here.

 

You are missing the key phrase in the OP story- "briefly transited".  That is a far cry from the current situation. This one had a liesurely 7 day transit of North America, from Alaska to South Carolina. Just happening to pass over or near many American military installations, ballistic missile bases, etc.  

 

Even if, worst case scenario, there WERE three significan incursions that Trump knew about and did not act, that does not excuse Biden's poor decision making here.  What he did, to use a sports analogy, was to tackle the runner after he scored a touchdown. 

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Good to see the NABAT (Not As Bad As Trump) team out in full force here.

 

You are missing the key phrase in the OP story- "briefly transited".  That is a far cry from the current situation. This one had a liesurely 7 day transit of North America, from Alaska to South Carolina. Just happening to pass over or near many American military installations, ballistic missile bases, etc.  

 

Even if, worst case scenario, there WERE three significan incursions that Trump knew about and did not act, that does not excuse Biden's poor decision making here.  What he did, to use a sports analogy, was to tackle the runner after he scored a touchdown. 

How about this sports analogy:  It is easy to sit in the bleachers and boo the quarterback when you have no idea as to the playbook.

 

  It is not so easy when you are the quarterback.  A good quarterback knows that he has coaches who likely have a lot more experience than he has to recommend the best play to run...and he listens to them because he knows that they have watched film and studied the opponents way more than he has and most likely know the best odds for a play to succeed. 

 

 That is what a team player does....he gets input from the team rather than go off half cocked as if he and he alone knows everything about everything...  Shame on Biden for not just lobbing a few passes downfield and hope for the best.

 

 

John Ratcliffe Says: 

Former spy chief John Ratcliffe denies reports that China sent three balloons under Trump | U.S. & World | gazette.com

37 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Good to see the NABAT (Not As Bad As Trump) team out in full force here.

 

You are missing the key phrase in the OP story- "briefly transited".  That is a far cry from the current situation. This one had a liesurely 7 day transit of North America, from Alaska to South Carolina. Just happening to pass over or near many American military installations, ballistic missile bases, etc.  

 

Even if, worst case scenario, there WERE three significan incursions that Trump knew about and did not act, that does not excuse Biden's poor decision making here.  What he did, to use a sports analogy, was to tackle the runner after he scored a touchdown. 

......he says confidently without having the full picture of what took place and probably never will.

8 minutes ago, Dan747 said:

John Ratcliffe Says: 

Former spy chief John Ratcliffe denies reports that China sent three balloons under Trump | U.S. & World | gazette.com

It was discovered after Trump left office just like the top secret documents. 
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/chinese-spy-balloons-over-us-during-trump-admin-discovered-after-he-left-office-senior-biden-official

47 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Good to see the NABAT (Not As Bad As Trump) team out in full force here.

 

You are missing the key phrase in the OP story- "briefly transited".  That is a far cry from the current situation. This one had a liesurely 7 day transit of North America, from Alaska to South Carolina. Just happening to pass over or near many American military installations, ballistic missile bases, etc.  

 

Even if, worst case scenario, there WERE three significan incursions that Trump knew about and did not act, that does not excuse Biden's poor decision making here.  What he did, to use a sports analogy, was to tackle the runner after he scored a touchdown. 

Well I guess Trump would have handled things differently, being a genius and all that. However after his first rants about shooting it down, he's now changed tune.........lol

 

Trump changes his tune about Chinese spy balloon — now claims he would have made 'the greatest deal EVER'

For days, former President Donald Trump and his allied Republicans have railed against President Joe Biden for not shooting down a Chinese spy balloon as it made its way across the United States.

Trump then claimed: "The Chinese would never have floated the Blimp ('Balloon') over the United States if I were President!!!"

"Who sends a Billion Dollar blimp, with the most sophisticated equipment in the World, and large enough to hold ten cars or 3 large buses, into a complex pattern over the United States, without it quite possibly being manned, such as the 'manned spacecraft?'" Trump asked.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-changes-his-tune-about-chinese-spy-balloon-—-now-claims-he-would-have-made-the-greatest-deal-ever/ar-AA178IBP

Link to original post in the article above

I was wondering why Rubio was confirming what pentagon officials said,Apparently this is worse than prior occurrences .Probably were so insignificant that they never made it to Trumps daily briefings or his administration  ie Rattcliff and Grenell and Pompeo.

 

Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL), who is the vice chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, also called the recent Chinese balloon incursion "unprecedented," and noted that while there may have been minor breaches of U.S. airspace in the past, he was unaware of something so flagrant.

https://gazette.com/news/us-world/former-spy-chief-john-ratcliffe-denies-reports-that-china-sent-three-balloons-under-trump/article_b05cb3c9-cf1c-57ed-b389-656b3b9ef5c0.html

 

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Misplaced concern of an alleged spy ballon that has been shot down rather than 3 alleged spy ballons not shot down. Weird thinking of the Maga community

I disagree.  We know nothing about the 3 alleged spy balloons.  I did read where they "briefly" were in U.S. airspace.  That tells nothing about exactly where, or for how long.  If they were only 'briefly" in U.S. airspace that may or may not have been sufficient time to intercept them, and shoot them down, and since their location is not reported they very well may have been over a populated area.  

We do however know that the current balloon was first spotted in Montana.  A state that is both huge, the 4th largest state in the U.S.A.  The state has only a population of 1.1 million which given its size makes most of Montana with few to no people and like most states the population centered in urban areas such as Billings, Missoula, Great Falls, and Bozeman Montana.  So for the vast majority of the balloons travel across Montana it could have been shot down. 

Again, the travel from Montana to the Atlantic Ocean is an expanse of 3,700 kilometers. You really want to pedlle the notion that traveling across 3,700 kilometers the balloon never went over an area that was largerly or totally uninhabited. 

 

4 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

By contrast we know the current balloon was first spotted in Montana. It was shot down over the Atlantic.  That is a distance of 3,700 KM.  

The question in my mind is: If the package was the size of 3 busses, as I seem to recall was reported in UK news, why was it not spotted earlier? It made Alaska and Canada....

11 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

The question in my mind is: If the package was the size of 3 busses, as I seem to recall was reported in UK news, why was it not spotted earlier? It made Alaska and Canada....

You raise a good question.  This is the path that the Daily Mail UK states the balloon took You sure would have expected that the balloon would have been spotted as it approached Canada and certainly as it crossed over Canadian airspace before entering Montana.  One thing is for sure, the balloon should have been destroyed over Montana which is largely open land.  It appears the balloon also went over South Dakota close to Rapid City.  For anyone who has traveled to that area of South Dakota whidh is called the Black Hills, it is rugged mostly uninhabited and a huge National Park.  Hardly something that would raise a concern over falling debris from the balloon. 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well I guess Trump would have handled things differently, being a genius and all that. However after his first rants about shooting it down, he's now changed tune.........lol

 

Trump changes his tune about Chinese spy balloon — now claims he would have made 'the greatest deal EVER'

For days, former President Donald Trump and his allied Republicans have railed against President Joe Biden for not shooting down a Chinese spy balloon as it made its way across the United States.

Trump then claimed: "The Chinese would never have floated the Blimp ('Balloon') over the United States if I were President!!!"

"Who sends a Billion Dollar blimp, with the most sophisticated equipment in the World, and large enough to hold ten cars or 3 large buses, into a complex pattern over the United States, without it quite possibly being manned, such as the 'manned spacecraft?'" Trump asked.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-changes-his-tune-about-chinese-spy-balloon-—-now-claims-he-would-have-made-the-greatest-deal-ever/ar-AA178IBP

Link to original post in the article above

If Trump were still POTUS, he'd send this to China in retaliation....

 

32 minutes ago, Scott Tracy said:

If the package was the size of 3 busses, as I seem to recall was reported in UK news, why was it not spotted earlier?

It was, it was being tracked by NORAD from the get go.

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Well I guess Trump would have handled things differently, being a genius and all that. However after his first rants about shooting it down, he's now changed tune.........lol

 

Trump changes his tune about Chinese spy balloon — now claims he would have made 'the greatest deal EVER'

For days, former President Donald Trump and his allied Republicans have railed against President Joe Biden for not shooting down a Chinese spy balloon as it made its way across the United States.

Trump then claimed: "The Chinese would never have floated the Blimp ('Balloon') over the United States if I were President!!!"

"Who sends a Billion Dollar blimp, with the most sophisticated equipment in the World, and large enough to hold ten cars or 3 large buses, into a complex pattern over the United States, without it quite possibly being manned, such as the 'manned spacecraft?'" Trump asked.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-changes-his-tune-about-chinese-spy-balloon-—-now-claims-he-would-have-made-the-greatest-deal-ever/ar-AA178IBP

Link to original post in the article above

If the Chinese had had any sense of humor they would have sent this balloon. It's useless and full of hot air so just like the person it resembles.

Imagine the satisfaction of firing a Sidewinder into that one!

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

I disagree.  We know nothing about the 3 alleged spy balloons.  I did read where they "briefly" were in U.S. airspace.  That tells nothing about exactly where, or for how long.  If they were only 'briefly" in U.S. airspace that may or may not have been sufficient time to intercept them, and shoot them down, and since their location is not reported they very well may have been over a populated area.  

We do however know that the current balloon was first spotted in Montana.  A state that is both huge, the 4th largest state in the U.S.A.  The state has only a population of 1.1 million which given its size makes most of Montana with few to no people and like most states the population centered in urban areas such as Billings, Missoula, Great Falls, and Bozeman Montana.  So for the vast majority of the balloons travel across Montana it could have been shot down. 

Again, the travel from Montana to the Atlantic Ocean is an expanse of 3,700 kilometers. You really want to pedlle the notion that traveling across 3,700 kilometers the balloon never went over an area that was largerly or totally uninhabited. 

 

You know nothing about the incursions because it was not disclosed by the Trump's administration. Mike Esper as the Secretary of Defense and report direct to President Trump. Did President Trump covered up the incursions because he did not want to jeopardize the relationship with China that may soured up his businesses there? I don't know. The alleged spy ballons were picked up by the Department of Defense flying into Hawaii, Guam, Texas & Florida restricted airspace. Texas is a permanent prohibited area due to the Pantex nuclear assemply plant. US Air Force can scrambled to intercept any airspace intrusion in 4-5 minutes. Moreover, did Trump even protested to China about the intrusions? We didn;t hear about that too. Too much coverup during Trump's adminstration to give him a pass on any benefit of doubt. 

Simply amazing how a discussion about the Biden administration's reaction to the spy balloon so quickly develops into a "...but Trump" festival. What the Great Orange Bad Man may or may not have done is completely irrelevant, particularly when there are so few details available.  It is entirely possible that he messed up too.  Both the current and former occupants of the White House can be wrong, it isn't a win/lose political issue.

 

The important issue is how Biden dealt with it. Alaska and northern Canada fall under the aegis of NORAD and there are alert aircraft available 24/7 on both sides of the border. It is a shared responsibility, so there is no fear that Canadian politicians would get upset over issues of sovereignty and overflying Canadian territory. 

Funny...the US has been spying the world for decades, same as Russia and China obviously. What's the big fuss and fight  ? Biden has made enough of a mess with other global issues....

 

Maybe it's more a context of public humiliation to the USA as the ballon was openly drifting with no shame !! ????.

 

When it comes to the "Dirty tricks department", .I would   n o t     trust either the US, the UK, China, Russia or the UE...all the same bunch of crooks acting for their own interests. No big deal. 

 

Enjoy the lovely sunny day, never discuss politics in public when in Thailand and above all at the pub with some other friendly posing farang, bring over some nice ladies back at the pool villa or condo...... and thank mother nature that you are in enough of a good health to still "get it up" ... ????