An off topic post has been removed.

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

As often is the case, The Independent is providing a far more detailed report than The Daily Mail.

 

”How did the Biden administration discover Chinese balloons from the Trump era?

White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan said the Biden administration was able to retroactively identify the presence of Chinese balloons in US airspace during Trump’s term after the US enhanced its “surveillance of our territorial airspace,” he said in remarks at an event hosted by the US Global Leadership Coalition, according to the Associated Press.”

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/chinese-spy-balloon-recovered-trump-latest-b2276371.html?amp

Perhaps these CNN features reveal a few more more likely details?:

 

  https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/06/politics/military-intelligence-report-china-balloon-trump

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/06/politics/military-intelligence-report-china-balloon-trump

 

But Bolton asks the right questions and makes a valid observation at the end of the clip. 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

It is really not that confusing. President Joe BIden has demonstrated that by prioritising to the intellgence community the importance of vigilance and assets deployment on his first day of office. Trump didn't. It is that simple. 

LOL now that is funny.  Your dislike for Trump is so great you make up assertions.  

So lets see, the Pentagon did not know that the balloons existed, but Trump should have prioritized detecting them, which Biden did only because the Pentagon later discovered their gap. 

In the meantime, this was the path of the balloon which traveled for thousands of kilometers across the southern tip of Alaska, Canada, and first detected by 'BIDENS" enhanced vigilance in Montana.  Now this "enhanced vigilance" led Biden to only let it completely traverse 3,700 Kilometers across the continental United States despite it being over near empty areas of Montana.  

Yep, I can sure see why you think Biden was spot on in his prioritizing the speedy response to this threat for only 8 days between January 28, and February 4.   I can see why you are a Biden Supporter.  You sound like him. 

— The balloon was spotted over the Aleutian Islands along the southern tip of Alaska. 2. It was sighted Wednesday over south-western Montana, ...
 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

The shooting of the ballon left a 7km debris trail. There may be a chance of the debris falling into the Russia side and creat a international incident or into the sea. Would that be a fair assessment of the risk? 

Not really. The Aleutian Islands off Alaska reach 1200 miles all the way west to the date line. Plenty of room to shoot balloons well away from Russia.

43 minutes ago, Skipalongcassidy said:

That was the initial story... update spoiler alert... it was retracted

It was not retracted - in fact it has been repeated and expanded on by Pentagon officials. However part of the additional information given is that the previous balloon incursions were not detected at the time (which also explains why various Trump officials were not aware of them).

 

So to be fair, it would be a little harsh to blame Trump or his administration for not doing anything when they didn't even know it had happened. It does point to a bit of a failure by the DoD, though.

8 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

LOL now that is funny.  Your dislike for Trump is so great you make up assertions.  

So lets see, the Pentagon did not know that the balloons existed, but Trump should have prioritized detecting them, which Biden did only because the Pentagon later discovered their gap. 

In the meantime, this was the path of the balloon which traveled for thousands of kilometers across the southern tip of Alaska, Canada, and first detected by 'BIDENS" enhanced vigilance in Montana.  Now this "enhanced vigilance" let Biden to only let it completely traverse 3,700 Kilometers across the continental United States despite it being over near empty areas of Montana.  

Yep, I can sure see why you think Biden was spot on in his prioritizing the speedy response to this threat for only 8 days between January 28, and February 4.   I can see why you are a Biden Supporter.  You sound like him. 

— The balloon was spotted over the Aleutian Islands along the southern tip of Alaska. 2. It was sighted Wednesday over south-western Montana, ...
 

 

 

 

I don't think it is clear who identified the balloon first but if it was not the US military then that would be a worry. It seems that this only became public knowledge once Larry Meyer had his photographs published in the Billings Gazette.

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I don't think it is clear who identified the balloon first but if it was not the US military then that would be a worry. It seems that this only became public knowledge once Larry Meyer had his photographs published in the Billings Gazette.

I am not sure either.  However the balloon was first spotted over the Southern Tip of the Alaskan Aeultian islands.  So if anything "Bidens" crack surveillance should have detected and destroyed it over the Pacific Ocean on January 28 when it was first spotted.   One way or another the balloon was allowed to travel for thousands of kilometers across an expanse of Canada and the United States.  It is pure bunk that the balloon had to travel thousands of kilometers across vast unpopulated regions to reach the Atlantic Ocean before being shot down.  

This "credit" to Biden for increased surveillance is nonsense.  One has no idea who ramped up the ability of the USA to detect these balloons.  However we sure know who let the thing travel for 8 days.  What good did it do to detect it and then let it travel to gather intelligence. 

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36 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

LOL now that is funny.  Your dislike for Trump is so great you make up assertions.  

So lets see, the Pentagon did not know that the balloons existed, but Trump should have prioritized detecting them, which Biden did only because the Pentagon later discovered their gap. 

In the meantime, this was the path of the balloon which traveled for thousands of kilometers across the southern tip of Alaska, Canada, and first detected by 'BIDENS" enhanced vigilance in Montana.  Now this "enhanced vigilance" led Biden to only let it completely traverse 3,700 Kilometers across the continental United States despite it being over near empty areas of Montana.  

Yep, I can sure see why you think Biden was spot on in his prioritizing the speedy response to this threat for only 8 days between January 28, and February 4.   I can see why you are a Biden Supporter.  You sound like him. 

— The balloon was spotted over the Aleutian Islands along the southern tip of Alaska. 2. It was sighted Wednesday over south-western Montana, ...
 

 

 

 

You really can’t like someone like Trump who break laws, investigated for criminal acts, lie and cheat on tax. Besides he has huge moral and ethical deficits. But you like that kind of person and is your prerogative. 
 

The case here is simple. Trump didn’t prioritize the importance of vigilance to the intelligence community. President Biden did. Conclusion it was Trump’s derelict of responsibility. The balloon discovery or non discovery was the result of such specific orders given by respective President. 
 

POTUS heeded the advice of Pentagon to shoot the balloon at sea on safety concerns. Trump will do something reckless as he don’t listen to intelligence advise. 
 

 

 

 

A fear discussion?

 

 

Did China’s balloon violate international law?

 

Both sides have long disagreed over the presence of US warships in the South China Sea and Taiwan Strait, which China claims as its own waters and the US considers international waters. Will the air be the next realm to be contested by the two superpowers?

 

https://theconversation.com/did-chinas-balloon-violate-international-law-199271?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1675735446

10 hours ago, chacha boom said:

It's a weather/scientific balloon. The Chinese have satellites like any other nation. I belive you're swallowing the other parts propaganda...

And how do you know this?

7 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

The case here is simple. Trump didn’t prioritize the importance of vigilance to the intelligence community. President Biden did.

And just exaclty where do you cite this from other than the crevices of your mind.  

As said, even if I buy your position that Biden is the one who heightened the security (WHICH I DOUBT)  He is unquestionably the one who let the balloon go undeterred for 8 days as it crossed thousands of kilometers both in the USA and Canada.

If you believe that is prioritizing the importance of vigilance I can sure understand why you are a Biden backer.  Your logic makes about as much sense as one of his speeches. 

 

2 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

And just exaclty where do you cite this from other than the crevices of your mind.  

As said, even if I buy your position that Biden is the one who heightened the security (WHICH I DOUBT)  He is unquestionably the one who let the balloon go undeterred for 8 days as it crossed thousands of kilometers both in the USA and Canada.

If you believe that is prioritizing the importance of vigilance I can sure understand why you are a Biden backer.  Your logic makes about as much sense as one of his speeches. 

 

so are u still clinging to the idea he should have ordered it shot down over montana or the badlands of south dakota....that "logic" makes zero sense....but obviously you know more about it then all the pentagon ,cia,nsa ,weather balloon, china and other experts that agreed otherwise......you want to list all your qualifications  so we can see how you attained such knowledge?

12 minutes ago, Longwood50 said:

And just exaclty where do you cite this from other than the crevices of your mind.  

As said, even if I buy your position that Biden is the one who heightened the security (WHICH I DOUBT)  He is unquestionably the one who let the balloon go undeterred for 8 days as it crossed thousands of kilometers both in the USA and Canada.

If you believe that is prioritizing the importance of vigilance I can sure understand why you are a Biden backer.  Your logic makes about as much sense as one of his speeches. 

 

"And just exaclty where do you cite this from other than the crevices of your mind."

 

Honesly, it would save us all a lot of time if you MAGA guys could extract yourself from the Fox et al bubble and have a look at the real world every now and then.
trump makes shocking comments about trusting Putin over US ‘intelligence lowlifes’

 

"As said, even if I buy your position that Biden is the one who heightened the security (WHICH I DOUBT)  He is unquestionably the one who let the balloon go undeterred for 8 days as it crossed thousands of kilometers both in the USA and Canada."

 

Biden wanted to shoot the balloon down days before it actually happened but since the President is intelligent and a leader (refreshing change!) he listened to expert advice and the balloon was brought down in an area where it couldn't hurt anyone and the chances of retrieving the intelligence equipment were the highest.

 

"If you believe that is prioritizing the importance of vigilance I can sure understand why you are a Biden backer.  Your logic makes about as much sense as one of his speeches."

 

Huh??

In a statement on Sunday, U.S. Northern Command said the balloon was brought down "within sovereign U.S. airspace and over U.S. territorial waters to protect civilians while maximizing our ability to recover the payload."

 

 

simple enough?

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Perhaps these CNN features reveal a few more more likely details?:

 

  https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/06/politics/military-intelligence-report-china-balloon-trump

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/06/politics/military-intelligence-report-china-balloon-trump

 

But Bolton asks the right questions and makes a valid observation at the end of the clip. 

 

 

Bolton finally getting around to asking the right questions would be a welcome improvement, though around six years too late.

1 hour ago, Longwood50 said:

I am not sure either.  However the balloon was first spotted over the Southern Tip of the Alaskan Aeultian islands.  So if anything "Bidens" crack surveillance should have detected and destroyed it over the Pacific Ocean on January 28 when it was first spotted.   One way or another the balloon was allowed to travel for thousands of kilometers across an expanse of Canada and the United States.  It is pure bunk that the balloon had to travel thousands of kilometers across vast unpopulated regions to reach the Atlantic Ocean before being shot down.  

This "credit" to Biden for increased surveillance is nonsense.  One has no idea who ramped up the ability of the USA to detect these balloons.  However we sure know who let the thing travel for 8 days.  What good did it do to detect it and then let it travel to gather intelligence. 

Far too long, I agree. If this detection capability was enhanced so greatly early in 2021, then the balloon must have been detected by the relevant command, NORAD, which also covers Canadian airspace. Plenty of opportunities to bring it down. 

 

Whatever the story, sending these things around the world is dangerous, even if they are not a military threat. I doubt that there is much control over them and if altitude control is lost then these 3-bus size balloons could descend into the altitude ranges used by commercial aviation and cause a tragedy.  

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Bolton finally getting around to asking the rght questions would be a welcome improvement, though around six years too late.

He's asking how these three earlier (Trump era) events were identified so recently and after the supposed fact? Of course there is no information about that, just like a lot of other stuff, like the size/type of previous balloons, where they were and for how long. All as flaky as an old scab.

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

And how do you know this?

Common unbiased sense

8 hours ago, Purdey said:

Could someone explain how to fly a balloon from China to America with no engines, wings or pilots.

I can see that if you launch it when the wind is blowing east it will start off fine, but to guide it precisely over military targets, what's the trick? 

There's no trick. They have very efficient satellites for that job. This story is just another chance to bang the drums and put more fear into the fragile minds of all freedumb loving folks.

3 minutes ago, chacha boom said:

There's no trick. They have very efficient satellites for that job. This story is just another chance to bang the drums and put more fear into the fragile minds of all freedumb loving folks.

Your hilarious. A balloon flying closer in orbit can obtain better information and pinpoint locations a satellite can not get exact.

Don't know why Trump is taking flak over this. Trump knows balloons. He has the most bigly balloons ever known. Many people say his balloons are the greatest balloons.

 

Covfefe

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Your hilarious. A balloon flying closer in orbit can obtain better information and pinpoint locations a satellite can not get exact.

Are you not aware of camera optics? Even modern private-owned satellite imaginary can snap a photo of a tennisball in your hand. Imagine what the Chinese and other high-tech nation states can do with their secret military grade stuff. Weather balloons go astray all the time. This is just a convenient story to be used for more anti-sino propaganda to build up for another imaginary war. Your war machine need constant feeding.  

12 minutes ago, chacha boom said:

Are you not aware of camera optics? Even modern private-owned satellite imaginary can snap a photo of a tennisball in your hand. Imagine what the Chinese and other high-tech nation states can do with their secret military grade stuff. Weather balloons go astray all the time. This is just a convenient story to be used for more anti-sino propaganda to build up for another imaginary war. Your war machine need constant feeding.  

 

Fact #2 : Chinese Balloon Was Not A Weather Balloon

Weather balloons are common – thousands are launched daily across the world to collect information on the temperature, wind and moisture in the upper atmosphere.

Weather balloons are not very large – expanding from 6 feet (1.8 metres) to 20 feet (6 metres) in diameter as they rise in altitude. Their payloads are also small, consisting of a small box with a few sensors.

The Chinese weather balloon that the US Air Force just shot down is not only much larger at around 90 feet (27.5 metres) wide, it also has a very large payload that includes large solar panels, and even propellers to control its movement.

https://www.techarp.com/military/us-chinese-spy-balloon-missile/

3 hours ago, Longwood50 said:

I am not sure either.  However the balloon was first spotted over the Southern Tip of the Alaskan Aeultian islands.  So if anything "Bidens" crack surveillance should have detected and destroyed it over the Pacific Ocean on January 28 when it was first spotted.   One way or another the balloon was allowed to travel for thousands of kilometers across an expanse of Canada and the United States.  It is pure bunk that the balloon had to travel thousands of kilometers across vast unpopulated regions to reach the Atlantic Ocean before being shot down.  

This "credit" to Biden for increased surveillance is nonsense.  One has no idea who ramped up the ability of the USA to detect these balloons.  However we sure know who let the thing travel for 8 days.  What good did it do to detect it and then let it travel to gather intelligence. 

So first u wanted it shot down over montana then over  the badlands and now over the Aleutian islands...do u have any clue as to the depth of the pacific ocean is there not to mention it is the middle of winter with very likely rough seas....so your idea is to send a  salvage team to go there and dive in freezing cold rough water that is about 5 miles deep to salvage the debris for inspection?

 

Brilliant.

 

How deep is the water around the Aleutian Islands?

 

 

 The Aleutian Trench is about 2200 statute miles long, 50 to 100 miles wide, and has a maximum depth of slightly over 25,000 feet.

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2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Your hilarious. A balloon flying closer in orbit can obtain better information and pinpoint locations a satellite can not get exact.

And how do you think this exact "pinpointing" can be achieved without satellites, in this day and age? 

50 minutes ago, pomchop said:

So first u wanted it shot down over montana then over  the badlands and now over the Aleutian islands...do u have any clue as to the depth of the pacific ocean is there not to mention it is the middle of winter with very likely rough seas

Are you indicating that was "the reason" it was not shot down"  I saw nothing about the excuse being they wanted to retrieve anything.  The excuse was that they did not want to bring it down over a populated area.  

One thing is for sure, if they had fired bullets at the balloon rather than a sidewinder missle the balloons would have slowly leaked air making the descent far more gentle.  That would be true whether that was over Montana or the Aleutina Islands.   The fact remains he let the spy sattelite operate for 8 days completing its spy mission before being destroy.  No matter how you spin that, it was a stupid move. 

The 3 Chinese spy balloons spotted during the Trump administration were initially classified as UFOs

https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-spy-balloons-seen-during-trump-administration-classified-as-ufos-2023-2?r=US&IR=T

 

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

e. Plenty of opportunities to bring it down. 

Absolutely.  I don't care how this story is spun to fit the narrative.  The fact remains the balloon was first spotted off the aleutian islands and nothing done.  It then traveled over a good portion of Canada and nothing was done.  It then went from Montana a very uninhabited state across 3700 kilometers of the USA to reach the Atlantic Ocean.  

One thing is for sure whatever intelligence the Chinese were looking to obain, Biden gave them 8 days and thousands of kilometers of travel to obtain it.