Masks and all

[onthedarkside]

A nonsense baiting troll post and replies has been removed

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, Lorry said:

So obviously, she doesn't take off her mask. She isn't stupid.

It's not a case of her being stupid or not stupid, she wears a mask because her manager tells her, and the rest of the staff in contact with the public, to do so.

Edited February 19, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

If you decide to visit a bank or office where the customer service staff wear masks and expect you to do also, and you want.......customer service........then just wear a mask.

 

On the another hand, if you want to be ignored, given minimal attention, or possibly asked to leave, then go ahead and stand up for your "rights."

Which banks do you claim expect customers to wear a mask and provide a level of service depending on a customer's compliance or ask customers to leave for non-compliance?   Bangkok Bank doesn't, Kasikorn doesn't, Krungsri doesn't as at last week.

[HighPriority]

It would seem that at worst a mask may not stop you catching or spreading Covid but it is certainly NOT going to increase the risk of you catching or spreading Covid.

So stop whining and wear the damn mask when asked or required, unless of course you don’t care for other people…

[NoDisplayName]

20 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Which banks do you claim expect customers to wear a mask and provide a level of service depending on a customer's compliance or ask customers to leave for non-compliance?   Bangkok Bank doesn't, Kasikorn doesn't, Krungsri doesn't as at last week.

It's hypothetical.

 

Doesn't have to be a bank.  Could be a hospital, or a 7-11, or a car dealership, or a food court.

 

It's about situational awareness.

[EVENKEEL]

I haven't worn a mask in weeks. Even got my 11 yr old enjoying the freedom. At our 7-11 I'd say 95% of customers are still masked, Even at BPH you don't need a mask. Not sure about banks.

 

My kids school recently like 2 weeks ago relaxed the mask rule, no masks needed anywhere. I asked how many kids still wore the mask, she goes out of 22 kids, 21 still masked up. At least my kid has the gumption to stand alone.

[connda]

Most of these people are psychologically damaged and will remain so for years to come.  Inordinate fear of a virus that primarily kills very old people and whom the vast majority, if they contract it, will have flu or cold symptoms and will recover just like you do with flu and colds if you're in reasonable good health - that's the majority of the population.
But - the media and government keeps stoking the fear, and the fearful keep wearing masks.  Honestly.  Look at your "leaders" nowadays.  Maskless although they may surround themselves with masked commoners.  So essentially masking is a sign of status and power.  Those with status and power don't wear them; the commoners are required to don their symbols of subservience.

I don't wear them unless confronted and I need something.  Then I put it on, and once away from whomever confronted me?  I take it back off.  I fully expect most Thais to wear masks for the rest of their lives.

Edited February 19, 2023 by connda

[HighPriority]

29 minutes ago, connda said:

Most of these people are psychologically damaged and will remain so for years to come.  Inordinate fear of a virus that primarily kills very old people and whom the vast majority, if they contract it, will have flu or cold symptoms and will recover just like you do with flu and colds if you're in reasonable good health - that's the majority of the population.
But - the media and government keeps stoking the fear, and the fearful keep wearing masks.  Honestly.  Look at your "leaders" nowadays.  Maskless although they may surround themselves with masked commoners.  So essentially masking is a sign of status and power.  Those with status and power don't wear them; the commoners are required to don their symbols of subservience.

I don't wear them unless confronted and I need something.  Then I put it on, and once away from whomever confronted me?  I take it back off.  I fully expect most Thais to wear masks for the rest of their lives.

So you wear a mask when you feel it benefits you and you expect us to take you seriously… ????

Selfish, uncaring and plainly disrespectful of others, go you !  

[brewsterbudgen]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

I haven't worn a mask in weeks. Even got my 11 yr old enjoying the freedom. At our 7-11 I'd say 95% of customers are still masked, Even at BPH you don't need a mask. Not sure about banks.

 

My kids school recently like 2 weeks ago relaxed the mask rule, no masks needed anywhere. I asked how many kids still wore the mask, she goes out of 22 kids, 21 still masked up. At least my kid has the gumption to stand alone.

Indeed, it's sad to see how many kids seem to prefer to be masked up, even when no longer obliged to be.  Well done to your kid ????

[Scott]

I am skeptical of this study.  Masks are going to work differently with different virus and how they are spread.  I think the big thing that most people forget that the original purpose of masking was to 'flatten the curve'.  

 

Keeping the number of people infected also kept the health system from collapsing.  I remember an interview with Dr. Fauci in which at the end he said something to the effect, "eventually, we will all catch it."  

 

Another important point about the public health protocols is the 6 ft. social distancing rules.   The two go hand in hand.  Viral material does escape masks, but they will not travel far.   The closer you are, the greater the risk.

 

I think of masks like seat belt, they can protect you, but they have to be combined with safe driving.

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I haven't worn a mask in weeks. Even got my 11 yr old enjoying the freedom. At our 7-11 I'd say 95% of customers are still masked, Even at BPH you don't need a mask. Not sure about banks.

 

My kids school recently like 2 weeks ago relaxed the mask rule, no masks needed anywhere. I asked how many kids still wore the mask, she goes out of 22 kids, 21 still masked up. At least my kid has the gumption to stand alone.

 

2 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Indeed, it's sad to see how many kids seem to prefer to be masked up, even when no longer obliged to be.  Well done to your kid ????

From my observations it looks like masks are a fashion statement among school kids, at least the ones I see in Central Festival. Teenage girls are particularly fond of wearing masks. I think the high levels of smoke haze lately might be playing a part as well.

 

13 minutes ago, Scott said:

I am skeptical of this study.  Masks are going to work differently with different virus and how they are spread.  I think the big thing that most people forget that the original purpose of masking was to 'flatten the curve'.  

 

Keeping the number of people infected also kept the health system from collapsing.  I remember an interview with Dr. Fauci in which at the end he said something to the effect, "eventually, we will all catch it."  

 

Another important point about the public health protocols is the 6 ft. social distancing rules.   The two go hand in hand.  Viral material does escape masks, but they will not travel far.   The closer you are, the greater the risk.

 

I think of masks like seat belt, they can protect you, but they have to be combined with safe driving.

Way back, I read that the main spreader was coughing and sneezing. Sneezes could traverse 3 aisles in a supermarket they said. Certainly wearing a mask pulls that up. I doubt that masks do much from the perspective of an uninfected person but common sense dictates that they must work to a significant degree to prevent transmission from an infected person. The studies I read affirm that.

[Liverpool Lou]

20 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

20 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Which banks do you claim expect customers to wear a mask and provide a level of service depending on a customer's compliance or ask customers to leave for non-compliance?   Bangkok Bank doesn't, Kasikorn doesn't, Krungsri doesn't as at last week.

Expand  

It's hypothetical.

Ah, so a completely pointless, made-up situation, albeit with oddly specific imaginary details, then.

[NoDisplayName]

37 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Ah, so a completely pointless, made-up situation, albeit with oddly specific imaginary details, then.

 

Thank you for your input.

It is truly appreciated.

Consider me enlightened.

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

18 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

19 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Ah, so a completely pointless, made-up situation, albeit with oddly specific imaginary details, then.

 

Thank you for your input.

It is truly appreciated.

Consider me enlightened.

I'm glad that I'm appreciated.

[Drumbuie]

On 2/19/2023 at 12:54 PM, Seppius said:

 

The research is in.

 

Wearing bits of cloth over your mouth and nose is almost certainly pointless, unless you are a bank robber trying to hide his ­identity. 

 

The news comes from a Cochrane Review, one of the most reliable and thorough forms of ­scientific research.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11767137/PETER-HITCHENS-masks-pointless-apology.html

You're quoting Hitchens in the Daily Fail??? ????????????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 2/19/2023 at 10:45 PM, Scott said:

I think of masks like seat belt, they can protect you, but they have to be combined with safe driving.

 

That's a good way of describing it.

 

The reality is, mask wearing does REDUCE (but not eliminate) the chances of catching COVID.  There are a lot of different variables that go into how much reduction occurs.

 

If two people who come into contact with each other are both wearing masks, the odds of spreading the virus are reduced more. If only one of the two is wearing a mask, there's a lesser level of protection.

 

And then as Scott points out, the distance and duration of the contact also matters... the longer and closer two contacts are, the greater the risk. The shorter duration and more distance between contacts, the risk is reduced.

 

And of course, the better quality of the mask and it being properly and tightly fit on the face, the risks go down. But with a loose fitting and poor quality masks, there's a lower level of protection.

 

However, I've seen many medical experts and public health officials say the following in varying forms.. basically -- when it comes to protecting against COVID, any normal mask wearing is going provide more protection than wearing no mask at all.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Per the U.S. CDC:

 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm

 

[SuperSilverHaze]

In the beginning I was very deferential to the idiots. I'm not yet to the point of trolling but I don't wear masks any more. I've always considered myself fairly culturally sensitive but we are to the point of moronic behavior

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

/////deleted post edited out////

 

Children have been at risk from COVID since the very beginning.... just not as much risk as older people and those with other medical conditions.

 

If "children were never at risk," then the U.S. would not have reported 670 COVID deaths among youngsters ages 0 to 4, and 1,007 COVID deaths amoung youngsters ages 5 to 18 since the beginning of the pandemic.  And many many thousands more hospitalizations beyond those deaths.

 

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Deaths-by-Sex-Ages-0-18-years/xa4b-4pzv

 

A lesser risk is not a non-existent risk.

 

 

 

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

///deleted post edited out///

 

So tell me what a sick person looks like.........do they have to be coughing, hacking, be red and sweaty or could they have a slight fever and a runny nose that you can not see if they are wearing a mask? Please enlighten me.

[onthedarkside]

Unsubstanitated covid meme removed along with covid misinformation post reported and removed

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

49 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

So tell me what a sick person looks like.........do they have to be coughing, hacking, be red and sweaty or could they have a slight fever and a runny nose that you can not see if they are wearing a mask?

You were replying above to a different poster... but the following addresses the valid point you raised regarding the spread of COVID by people with no visible symptoms.

 

The truth about COVID-19 and asymptomatic spread: It’s common, so wear a mask and avoid large gatherings

 

"Asymptomatic spread definitely plays a role in community spread,” said Dr. David Beckham, an infectious disease specialist who studies viruses in a lab he runs at the University of Colorado School of Medicine.

Wearing masks helps prevent asymptomatic spread of COVID-19

That means it’s all the more critical for people to follow public health measures that clearly work, chief among them wearing masks, staying far apart from people and washing hands frequently."

 

https://www.uchealth.org/today/the-truth-about-asymptomatic-spread-of-covid-19/

 

[jaywalker2]

On 2/19/2023 at 2:11 AM, ThailandRyan said:

Read the actual Cochrane review in its entirety and not a synopsis by an individual who has an agenda please.  The Cochrane Review did not do an independent study on its own, they just reviewed many of the studies done prior to Covid on mask wearing. They say they are uncertain as the evidence and studies they researched had low adherence with interventions.  Do yourself a favor and do a little more research of your own instead of believing agenda driven articles.

 

https://www.cochrane.org/CD006207/ARI_do-physical-measures-such-hand-washing-or-wearing-masks-stop-or-slow-down-spread-respiratory-viruses

 

Key messages
We are uncertain whether wearing masks or N95/P2 respirators helps to slow the spread of respiratory viruses based on the studies we assessed.

 

Authors' conclusions: 

The high risk of bias in the trials, variation in outcome measurement, and relatively low adherence with the interventions during the studies hampers drawing firm conclusions. There were additional RCTs during the pandemic related to physical interventions but a relative paucity given the importance of the question of masking and its relative effectiveness and the concomitant measures of mask adherence which would be highly relevant to the measurement of effectiveness, especially in the elderly and in young children.

There is uncertainty about the effects of face masks. The low to moderate certainty of evidence means our confidence in the effect estimate is limited, and that the true effect may be different from the observed estimate of the effect. 

 

What's interesting though is no major RCT's have been done about masking. In particular, the CDC made its masking recommendations without bothering to do any trials even though Fauchi himself had said at the beginning of the pandemic that masks weren't effective. You would think that by now they would have financed a major random controlled trial to settle the issue once and for all.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

27 minutes ago, jaywalker2 said:

What's interesting though is no major RCT's have been done about masking. In particular, the CDC made its masking recommendations without bothering to do any trials even though Fauchi himself had said at the beginning of the pandemic that masks weren't effective. You would think that by now they would have financed a major random controlled trial to settle the issue once and for all.

 1. You might want to read more:

Surgical masks reduce COVID-19 spread, large-scale study shows

...

“We now have evidence from a randomized, controlled trial that mask promotion increases the use of face coverings and prevents the spread of COVID-19,” said Stephen Luby, MD, professor of medicine at Stanford. “This is the gold standard for evaluating public health interventions. Importantly, this approach was designed be scalable in lower- and middle-income countries struggling to get or distribute vaccines against the virus.”

 

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.html

 

 

2. And as for the Fauci comment you refer to, which he sent as a response to a private email, came prior to the official declaration of the pandemic and before scientists understood how COVID could be spread by asymptomatic cases. Fauci later changed his advice re face mask when COVID was better understood, as the following fact-check explains:

 

"The claim that an email from Fauci proves he knew masks were ineffective at mitigating the spread of COVID-19 is MISSING CONTEXT, based on our research. Fauci sent the email on Feb. 5, 2020, more than a month before the World Health Organization declared COVID-19 a worldwide pandemic. The understanding about the effectiveness of masks and guidance about wearing them evolved during the pandemic, as did Fauci’s position on their use."

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/03/fact-check-missing-context-claim-mask-emails-fauci/7531267002/

 

CNN also covered similar terrain:

 

"While Fauci, along with several other US health leaders, initially advised people not to wear masks, Fauci later said that he was concerned that there wouldn’t be enough protective equipment for health care workers. This was also early in the pandemic before public health experts fully knew how contagious the disease was and how it spread.

...

That makes it overwhelmingly important for everyone to wear a mask.”  

 

https://edition.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_e58c20c6-8735-4022-a1f5-1580bc732c45

 

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[proton]

On 2/19/2023 at 12:54 PM, Seppius said:

 

The research is in.

 

Wearing bits of cloth over your mouth and nose is almost certainly pointless, unless you are a bank robber trying to hide his ­identity. 

 

The news comes from a Cochrane Review, one of the most reliable and thorough forms of ­scientific research.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11767137/PETER-HITCHENS-masks-pointless-apology.html

Explain why surgeons and nurses wear them then if they are useless

[Scott]

A post commenting on moderation have been removed.  It should also be noted that continuing to bait and bicker with other posters will earn a suspension.  

 

[DavisH]

On 2/19/2023 at 1:03 PM, Lorry said:

The lady in Bangkok Bank figures an anti-masker is an irresponsible and unhygienic person who doesn't care if he infects others. 

I avoid to deal with this kind of person, but her job forces her to speak with you. 

So obviously, she doesn't take off her mask. She isn't stupid.

 

But what exactly do the American culture wars have to do with the health forum of Thai Visa?

Well I haven't worn a mask for months, and I'm far from an "anti-masker". I wore it when it was deemed necessary. I deem it not necessary now - just look a the official covid numbers. I would wager more are dying from pneumonia in hospitals or the flu. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, DavisH said:

Well I haven't worn a mask for months, and I'm far from an "anti-masker". I wore it when it was deemed necessary. I deem it not necessary now - just look a the official covid numbers. I would wager more are dying from pneumonia in hospitals or the flu. 

 Thailand doesn't really make those kinds of statistical data comparisons public for its own cases, but the U.S. and others do... and you'd be wagering wrong.

 

"Going strictly by the numbers, COVID-19 is still claiming around 400 lives per day in the U.S., which is roughly 3 times as many as the flu. A recent report used death certificate data and found COVID-19 to be four times as deadly as the flu in England and Wales."

 

https://www.goodrx.com/conditions/covid-19/flu-vs-coronavirus-mortality-and-death-rates-by-year

 

AND

 

Omicron hospital illness 54% deadlier than flu hospital cases, study finds

News brief

February 17, 2023

 

Adults hospitalized with SARS-CoV-2 Omicron infections in Switzerland died at 1.5 times the rate of those diagnosed as having influenza A or B, shows a multicenter study published yesterday in JAMA Network Open.

 

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/covid-19/omicron-hospital-illness-54-deadlier-flu-hospital-cases-study-finds

 

Edited February 21, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[jaywalker2]

36 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 1. You might want to read more:

Surgical masks reduce COVID-19 spread, large-scale study shows

...

“We now have evidence from a randomized, controlled trial that mask promotion increases the use of face coverings and prevents the spread of COVID-19,” said Stephen Luby, MD, professor of medicine at Stanford. “This is the gold standard for evaluating public health interventions. Importantly, this approach was designed be scalable in lower- and middle-income countries struggling to get or distribute vaccines against the virus.”

 

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2021/09/surgical-masks-covid-19.html

 

 

2. And as for the Fauci comment you refer to, which he sent as a response to a private email, came prior to the official declaration of the pandemic and before scientists understood how COVID could be spread by asymptomatic cases. Fauci later changed his advice re face mask when COVID was better understood, as the following fact-check explains:

 

"The claim that an email from Fauci proves he knew masks were ineffective at mitigating the spread of COVID-19 is MISSING CONTEXT, based on our research. Fauci sent the email on Feb. 5, 2020, more than a month before the World Health Organization declared COVID-19 a worldwide pandemic. The understanding about the effectiveness of masks and guidance about wearing them evolved during the pandemic, as did Fauci’s position on their use."

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/06/03/fact-check-missing-context-claim-mask-emails-fauci/7531267002/

 

CNN also covered similar terrain:

 

"While Fauci, along with several other US health leaders, initially advised people not to wear masks, Fauci later said that he was concerned that there wouldn’t be enough protective equipment for health care workers. This was also early in the pandemic before public health experts fully knew how contagious the disease was and how it spread.

...

That makes it overwhelmingly important for everyone to wear a mask.”  

 

https://edition.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_e58c20c6-8735-4022-a1f5-1580bc732c45

 

 

The Fauchi comment was about respitory viruses in general and not specific to Covid. His later comment that he lied in order to prevent a run of available masks is more than a little far fetched. In general, masks have never been recommended for influenza-like diseases because the consensus is that they have little effect other than making people feel more secure perhaps or take greater precautions.

 

As another poster mentioned, a case might be made for strategic use of surgical or N95 masks in specific situations such as closed and crowded rooms with poor ventilation. But broad mandates for continuous mask wearing for extended periods of time lead inevitably to poor compliance and negative secondary effects. Plus, N95 masks are relatively expensive so most people would probably revert to cheap cloth masks anyway.

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

25 minutes ago, jaywalker2 said:

N95 masks are relatively expensive so most people would probably revert to cheap cloth masks anyway.

I've been buying and wearing N95 masks since prior to COVID, because of Bangkok seasonal air pollution. And considered myself very fortunate to have had a good supply at home by the time COVID came around. And I've never reverted to "cheap cloth masks."

 

As for Fauci's email response re masks, that came at the very beginning of what shortly would be declared the COVID pandemic, and was asked by someone who was planning to travel to a "low-risk" location. I'm not finding anything that says that inquiry was not spurred by the COVID outbreak.

 

Quote

the consensus is that they have little effect other than making people feel more secure perhaps or take greater precautions.

 

I don't know what public health authorities have that "consensus." What is generally agreed upon, AFAIK, is that masks overall are relatively more effective as a source control (preventing infected people from spreading the virus to others) and effective but somewhat less so (depending on the type of mask) in preventing uninfected people from catching the virus.

 

N95 masks, when fit and worn properly, are the most effective among commonly available mask types in preventing the wearer from contracting the virus.

Edited February 21, 2023 by TallGuyJohninBKK