Exterior sunshading - why not common in Thailand?

[CLW]

18 minutes ago, unheard said:

Are they gas charged in Thailand?

So far I haven't seen any evidence of that.

But I'd admit not closely looking into it.

btw, gas filled as in inert gas, not air. ????

some foreign owned Thailand-based windowmakers offer argon filling.

 

Still highly debated (even in western countries) if the gas filling has any effect...

[Yellowtail]

10 minutes ago, unheard said:

Labor is widely considered to be the biggest cost of doing business in the U.S.

It's a fact.

Now you've switched from biggest cost in manufacturing to biggest cost of doing business. 

 

Less than 10% of total US labor is in manufacturing. 

 

Why do you think most all Japanese and European auto manufacturers have plants in the US?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

16 minutes ago, unheard said:

Are they gas charged in Thailand?

So far I haven't seen any evidence of that.

But I'd admit not closely looking into it.

btw, gas filled as in inert gas, not air. ????

Do you see any double-glazed windows in Thailand? 

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, CLW said:

Why have windows then in the first place? Of course I want to open or close when there is no direct sunshine on the windows to let light in

You get sunlight and can see out of fixed-shade sunscreens. 

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, CLW said:

some foreign owned Thailand-based windowmakers offer argon filling.

 

Still highly debated (even in western countries) if the gas filling has any effect...

If double-glazed windows are not gas-charged, condensate will collect inside. Over the years the lower half of the window will get milky/dirty looking inside, and you can't clean them. 

 

When you see a nice building with a lot of windows and one window looks crappy, it will be because it lost its charge. 

[unheard]

52 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Now you've switched from biggest cost in manufacturing to biggest cost of doing business. 

 

Less than 10% of total US labor is in manufacturing. 

 

Why do you think most all Japanese and European auto manufacturers have plants in the US?

I really don't understand your point in regards to labor.

As In regards to foreign based  U.S. located auto plants...

To have access to a highly protected auto-market.

Also to be insulated from currency exchange rates fluctuations (which is the case with the Japanese).

And often to take advantage of the local tax breaks (job creation incentives).

Did I pass the quiz?

Edited March 9, 2023 by unheard

[unheard]

40 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you see any double-glazed windows in Thailand? 

Do you?

[unheard]

38 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

If double-glazed windows are not gas-charged, condensate will collect inside.

Nothing to do with being gas charged (mostly).

And everything to do with air leaking in and out of the void between the panes (broken seals).

Edited March 9, 2023 by unheard

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, unheard said:

I really don't understand your point in regards to labor.

Clearly

8 minutes ago, unheard said:

As In regards to foreign based  U.S. located auto plants...

To have access to highly protected auto-market.

There is no highly protected auto market in the US. 

8 minutes ago, unheard said:

Also to be insulated from currency exchange rates fluctuations.

Having a plant in the US does not insulate them from currency fluctuation, in some cases it exasperates it. 

8 minutes ago, unheard said:

And often to take advantage of the local tax brakes (job creation incentives).

If they did not have a plant in the US they would not pay taxes in the US so tax incentives would be of little use. 

8 minutes ago, unheard said:

Did I pass the quiz?

100%

 

[unheard]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Clearly

There is no highly protected auto market in the US. 

Having a plant in the US does not insulate them from currency fluctuation, in some cases it exasperates it. 

If they did not have a plant in the US they would not pay taxes in the US so tax incentives would be of little use. 

100%

 

Congrats.

You win!

Can I go now? ????

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

If double-glazed windows are not gas-charged, condensate will collect inside. Over the years the lower half of the window will get milky/dirty looking inside, and you can't clean them. 

Not true. The windows need to be both sealed and have zero humidity in the gas (whatever gas it is) within the unit. The standard gas used is argon as it does provide a little extra benefit, is the third-most abundant gas is more than double the molecular weight of nitrogen, and inert. So it is an excellent candidate for filling IGUs and of necessity will have zero moisture in it.

 

So it is IGUs that are no longer sealed that are likely to be the problem.

 

[Yellowtail]

3 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Not true. The windows need to be both sealed and have zero humidity in the gas (whatever gas it is) within the unit. The standard gas used is argon as it does provide a little extra benefit, is the third-most abundant gas is more than double the molecular weight of nitrogen, and inert. So it is an excellent candidate for filling IGUs and of necessity will have zero moisture in it.

 

So it is IGUs that are no longer sealed that are likely to be the problem.

 

Is that not what I said? How would the lose their charge if they weren't leaking? 

 

Argon it typically used as it is denser and does not conduct heat as well. 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Do you see any double-glazed windows in Thailand? 

Like these?

[sometimewoodworker]

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Argon it typically used as it is denser and does not conduct heat as well.

Is that not mostly what I said

15 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Is that not what I said? How would the lose their charge if they weren't leaking? 

It may have been what you meant but not what you said???? 

Edited March 9, 2023 by sometimewoodworker

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Is that not mostly what I said

 

It may have been what you mostly meant but not what you mostly said???? 

 

Again, how does the window lose it's charge without leaking? 

[CLW]

28 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Like these?

Interesting company, thanks.

 

So. they can make or supply the glass. But no mention about who can make the windows or what profile you can use with their glass on the website.

 

Also, if this is true, the u(g)-value of ordinary 3mm clear glass double-pane with 5.8 is ridiculously high. It might be different in combination with the u(f)-value for a quality frame with thermal break. But for 5.8  I don't need more expensive double-pane windows then....

[sometimewoodworker]

5 minutes ago, CLW said:

So. they can make or supply the glass.

Yes, they make the glass.

 

6 minutes ago, CLW said:

But no mention about who can make the windows or what profile you can use with their glass on the website.

They are a glass company not a window company, any widow company can make the windows, from a local mom and pop company (the local village window maker fitted 3 leftover door panels) to a company that does a fantastic job with German profiles (all of the others)

12 minutes ago, CLW said:

Also, if this is true, the u(g)-value of ordinary 3mm clear glass double-pane with 5.8 is ridiculously high. It might be different in combination with the u(f)-value for a quality frame with thermal break. But for 5.8  I don't need more expensive double-pane windows then....

There is far more than u values that affect the windows/doors. You pay, you choose. But like high quality tools you cry once and enjoy the benefits for a long long time. I know that we paid more for our windows that SWMBO paid for mums house. Given the option to redo our build I, and SWMBO, would not spend any less.

[CLW]

@sometimewoodworker I correct myself regarding the u-values. Profile manufacturer Deceuninck claims a u(f) of 1.5 which sounds okay to me. 

 

https://www.deceuninck.co.th/EVERESTMAX/6217c02a679ec60013ac93b4

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Again, how does the window lose it's charge without leaking? 

Loosing the charge doesn’t cause condensation. Water vapour entering the unit allows condensation. The gas can be pure argon + water and you can have condensation.

[CLW]

16 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Loosing the charge doesn’t cause condensation. Water vapour entering the unit allows condensation. The gas can be pure argon + water and you can have condensation.

Inside the frame is desiccant to absorb moisture

[sometimewoodworker]

4 minutes ago, CLW said:

Inside the frame is desiccant to absorb moisture

And when there is too much water?

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Loosing the charge doesn’t cause condensation. Water vapour entering the unit allows condensation. The gas can be pure argon + water and you can have condensation.

Again, how does the window lose it's charge without leaking? 

[sometimewoodworker]

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Again, how does the window lose it's charge without leaking? 

Again and to be completely clear. The seal must be compromised for moisture ingresses. However depending on where the compromise has occurred the Argon may or may not leak out since the molecular weight of Argon is higher than both Oxygen and Nitrogen a compromise at the top and the fill is at normal atm a failure of the seal will not automatically result in total, or even major, Argon escape.

So Q.E.D. compromise of seal ≠ Argon escape.

[unheard]

11 hours ago, CLW said:

Inside the frame is desiccant to absorb moisture

Yes, the residual moisture (if any) left from manufacturing or maybe just a minor ingress of the not too humid air in the case of a minor seal compromise.

But it won't last long.

Edited March 10, 2023 by unheard

[unheard]

14 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I know that we paid more for our windows that SWMBO paid for mums house.

Pretty much the reason for the energy-efficient windows being so uncommon in Thailand.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

Pretty much the reason for the energy-efficient windows being so uncommon in Thailand.

The reason is not the cost of the glazing but the size and number of glazing units. In a single room I have 22 individual IGUs, none smaller than 1.5x1.5 and 16 of them open

[Yellowtail]

8 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Again and to be completely clear. The seal must be compromised for moisture ingresses. However depending on where the compromise has occurred the Argon may or may not leak out since the molecular weight of Argon is higher than both Oxygen and Nitrogen a compromise at the top and the fill is at normal atm a failure of the seal will not automatically result in total, or even major, Argon escape.

So Q.E.D. compromise of seal ≠ Argon escape.

So for the window to lose it's charge, the window has to be leaking, thank you. 

[unheard]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The reason is not the cost of the glazing but the size and number of glazing units. In a single room I have 22 individual IGUs, none smaller than 1.5x1.5 and 16 of them open

The cost IS the reason.

I was referring to the Thai market in general and not to your particular case.

As @proton has previously mentioned, most Thais prefer to have their houses built with many windows and multiple sliding doors.

Cheap, Thai standard windows.

The vast majority would never even consider getting western standard, thermally efficient units due to the costs.

[CLW]

29 minutes ago, unheard said:

The cost IS the reason.

I was referring to the Thai market in general and not to your particular case.

As @proton has previously mentioned, most Thais prefer to have their houses built with many windows and multiple sliding doors.

Cheap, Thai standard windows.

The vast majority would never even consider getting western standard, thermally efficient units due to the costs.

Yes, typical Thai thinking. Cheap at the beginning but don't think about the running or replacement costs. Most people don't understand that they could save half of their electricity bills by using insulated houses. But I've given up to explain this concept to Thais. Let them do as they please. Not my house or money....

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, unheard said:

The cost IS the reason.

I was referring to the Thai market in general and not to your particular case.

As @proton has previously mentioned, most Thais prefer to have their houses built with many windows and multiple sliding doors.

Cheap, Thai standard windows.

The vast majority would never even consider getting western standard, thermally efficient units due to the costs.

Perhaps if you were more condescending you would convince them. (just kidding)