Asylum plan 'very concerning' and would break international law - UN refugee agency

[Hi from France]

also Sunak is in France today and will pay 543M€ to help fight "illegal immigration"

 

https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2023/03/10/le-premier-ministre-britannique-rishi-sunak-recu-a-l-elysee_6164905_3210.html

 

as you know since Brexit, the UK cannot send just back migrants to their previous point of travel (=other European countries).

 

 

personally, I'm happy that we have again someone reliable to cooperate with, but not satisfied with France doing the dirty job with a detention centre and hundred of kilometer of beaches to watch. We are not Rwanda

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/mar/10/rishi-sunak-emmanuel-macron-channel-migrant-crossings-uk-politics-live

 

 

 

people seeking asylum should be able to have their request processed without having to cross the Channel first. Asylum is a vital human right

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

also Sunak is in France today and will pay 543M€ to help fight "illegal immigration"

 

https://www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2023/03/10/le-premier-ministre-britannique-rishi-sunak-recu-a-l-elysee_6164905_3210.html

 

as you know since Brexit, the UK cannot send just back migrants to their previous point of travel (=other European countries).

 

 

personally, I'm happy that we have again someone reliable to cooperate with, but not satisfied with France doing the dirty job with a detention centre and hundred of kilometer of beaches to watch. We are not Rwanda

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2023/mar/10/rishi-sunak-emmanuel-macron-channel-migrant-crossings-uk-politics-live

 

 

 

people seeking asylum should be able to have their request processed without having to cross the Channel first. Asylum is a vital human right

Why aren't these refugees seeking asylum in France?

[proton]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Yes it is a matter of definition.

 

Asylum seekers have the right, under international law, to have their application for asylum fairly and lawfully considered, regardless of how they entered the country.

 

 

You know perfectly well Albanians and many others have no right to claim asylum at all. Many others lie about their country of origin, hence the lack of documentation. This farce has to stop, Thailand can do it why can't the UK, stuff the human right law what about the rights of UK citizens.

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Hang on a minute.

 

Government…… ‘Govern’.

 

Over twelve years of Government failing to…. Govern.

 

‘Bleeding heart liberals’ do not have direct control over the Home Office, Border Force, the Royal Navy, the Police or the National Budget.

 

Lay blame were it belongs.

 

Government failure to Govern.

But it can't be solved while the UK remains soft on those arriving on boats. Whenever the UK government announces an idea to deter the people traffickers, the lefties are up in arms and do everything to stop it. 

There is no nice way to stop the traffickers. 

What's your proposal? Let me guess....work with the French...yawwwn

[Hi from France]

4 hours ago, placeholder said:

Why aren't these refugees seeking asylum in France?

 

Uk has a very strong "pull factor"

Quote

the lack of national identity cards and a poorly controlled labour market in Britain, saying the ease with which people can work illegally is a significant pull factor,

and a lot of migrating families crossing the channel in small boats come from Afghanistan, which is in a terrible state under Taliban rule (and the UK just let them down).

 

The UK should set up an asylum processing centre in northern France so claims could be processed there, allowing people to travel legally to the UK if accepted, instead of dying during the crossing and having to pay their way to smugglers

 

 

 

as for the illegals

Quote

France expels about 20,000 illicit migrants a year while Britain manages 6,000 – about four times less than France, despite the fact that the UK gets about half as many illicit migrants

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/07/what-does-the-uks-small-boats-plan-mean-for-relations-with-france

[bannork]

So under this bill, victims of human trafficking no longer have protection if they go to the police. I hope Andrew Marr is right and this bill will fail 

 

[nauseus]

On 3/9/2023 at 4:12 PM, Jumbo1968 said:

Not the point pre Brexit there was no fee, with a family it will add to the cost their cost of their holiday.

If the UK were still in the UK there would be no fee.

Maybe rejoin the UK then?

[JonnyF]

12 hours ago, RayC said:

Just a mere 4% drop in GDP attributional to Brexit according to the OBR, so that's turned out ok.

 

Merely proves that 10% was complete hyperbole. Which proves my point that BOTH sides exaggerated.

 

The fact that the 4% was due to Covid lockdowns is neither here nor there.

[steve187]

On 3/8/2023 at 8:39 PM, Slip said:

Alright piers morgan.  If I want to hear that sort of nonsense I can watch top gear or james whale.  It's this government which is using refugees and immigrants to attempt to manage their own dismal performance.  They will be gone at the next election.  The only question is how long for.

with all these international laws, there is no need for the MP's to make laws then.

there are very few genuine asylum seeks entering the UK via France, and if they are then they should apply in Europe before reaching the UK,

in my view they need locking in detention camps and  their asylum claims dealt with there and then sending back where they came from, the French are taking the p**s,

[herfiehandbag]

9 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You do understand how smuggling works don’t you?

I do. I also understand that the government of the UK are trying to stop it. These people are illegal immigrants, many of whom are young males, many of whom who are economic migrants rather than refugees, who as you suggest are being smuggled across many countries to get into the UK. They are not asylum seekers are they?

In fact their presence and the massive resources which they consume are detracting from the efforts to actually help genuine refugees fleeing genuine persecution.

 

The sheer numbers presenting at the channel coast does suggest that most of the countries they pass through are prepared to tolerate their transit, as long as they don't bother them "en route ".

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, proton said:

You know perfectly well Albanians and many others have no right to claim asylum at all. Many others lie about their country of origin, hence the lack of documentation. This farce has to stop, Thailand can do it why can't the UK, stuff the human right law what about the rights of UK citizens.

Albanians are already being returned to Albania.

 

’Stuff the human rights law what about UK citizens’.

 

I’m not sure you thought that through.

 

It might be worth having a think about that, give it a try.

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

But it can't be solved while the UK remains soft on those arriving on boats. Whenever the UK government announces an idea to deter the people traffickers, the lefties are up in arms and do everything to stop it. 

There is no nice way to stop the traffickers. 

What's your proposal? Let me guess....work with the French...yawwwn

I don’t see any ‘lefties up in arms’.

 

What I do see is right wingers up in arms and blaming everyone else except twelve years of Tory  Government failure.

 

 

[nauseus]

15 hours ago, sandyf said:

This was one of the great misconceptions during the brexit campaign. The arch brexiteers like Farage made such an issue out of open borders that may who had never left the country came to believe that people from the EU could just enter the country without any check whatsoever. 

Schengen meant nothing to them.

I don't remember Farage or anyone else saying exactly that but there was a concern that refugees granted EU passports in other EU countries might then use those passports to later access the UK while it was still part of the EU.

 

Since 2015, after Merkel opened doors to Germany, and so, through Schengen, to the EU, the people smugglers have organized much larger numbers of paying migrants from all over Asia and Africa into the refugee mix, and into the EU. Many of these people seem to be set on making it to the UK; the people waiting in the sand dunes near Dunkirk reached there easily because of Schengen, which enables unchecked travel across continental Europe. This freedom of movement within the EU makes like too easy for the smugglers and appears to not help genuine refugees so much.

 

 

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

I don't remember Farage or anyone else saying exactly that but there was a concern that refugees granted EU passports in other EU countries might then use those passports to later access the UK while it was still part of the EU.

Selective memory. The rhetoric was all about "open borders" as in Schengen and taking back control of UK borders. 

The UK has always had control of it's borders, even UK nationals have had to pass through immigration. Not something that those who have never left the country would know about.

Farage, for his own ends, tried to convince the people brexit would solve an ongoing problem but it only made things worse. From 2007.

 

"The plan has put the Home Office on a collision course with the Foreign Office, which is leading calls for the ban to be lifted. The impending row highlights deepening divisions in Whitehall over the best way to tackle economic migration, and comes at the end of a week in which three chief constables called for greater resources to cope with an influx of immigrants from eastern Europe."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/23/immigration.eu

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Breakup of the UK? No chance.

Time will tell, it always does.

[transam]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Time will tell, it always does.

Has the UK broken up before then....?

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

Has the UK broken up before then....?

Well there was a time, like for most of recorded history, when the UK was not the UK.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Well there was a time, like for most of recorded history, when the UK was not the UK.

But the UK has never broken up, and now that waste of space in Scotland has stood down, I doubt there will be a break-up.

 

Great Britain, with the addition of N. Ireland we have the UK, but we still have Great Britain for those who want to refer to it as that, the same as referring to ones country of birth, England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.....As I do...????

 

[RayC]

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Merely proves that 10% was complete hyperbole.

I agree 10% is hyperbole. Who made this claim? I recall Osbourn mentioned 6%.

 

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Which proves my point that BOTH sides exaggerated.

They did but that is not what you wrote: "The Remain side went completely overboard on the pain. 10% drop in GDP ..."

 

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

 

The fact that the 4% was due to Covid lockdowns is neither here nor there.

You're right: It is neither here nor there.

 

The OBR attributed the 4% reduction in UK GDP solely to Brexit. Nothing to do with Covid, the war in Ukraine or anything else.

[transam]

The UK should have the Royal Navy on standby with one of these below. As the rubber things land, they are ushered onto it. Then they are taken back to where they departed and disembarked, the vessel has no need to dock.....Job done...........????

 

[RayC]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

I don't remember Farage or anyone else saying exactly that but there was a concern that refugees granted EU passports in other EU countries might then use those passports to later access the UK while it was still part of the EU.

A citizen of an EU country was fully entitled to enter the UK when we were an EU member (as they are now).

 

Their (former) status as a refugee is irrelevant.

 

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

Since 2015, after Merkel opened doors to Germany, and so, through Schengen, to the EU, the people smugglers have organized much larger numbers of paying migrants from all over Asia and Africa into the refugee mix, and into the EU. Many of these people seem to be set on making it to the UK; the people waiting in the sand dunes near Dunkirk reached there easily because of Schengen, which enables unchecked travel across continental Europe. This freedom of movement within the EU makes like too easy for the smugglers and appears to not help genuine refugees so much.

 

 

Merkel relaxing measures might have offered encouragement to the people smugglers but it isn't the root cause of the problem. Illegal economic migrants have been arriving in increasing numbers in the EU for many years.

 

The solution is obvious: Stop the flow of illegal economic migrants at the source. Unfortunately, how the EU and/or the UK accomplish that goal is far from obvious.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, sandyf said:

Selective memory. The rhetoric was all about "open borders" as in Schengen and taking back control of UK borders. 

The UK has always had control of it's borders, even UK nationals have had to pass through immigration. Not something that those who have never left the country would know about.

Farage, for his own ends, tried to convince the people brexit would solve an ongoing problem but it only made things worse. From 2007.

 

"The plan has put the Home Office on a collision course with the Foreign Office, which is leading calls for the ban to be lifted. The impending row highlights deepening divisions in Whitehall over the best way to tackle economic migration, and comes at the end of a week in which three chief constables called for greater resources to cope with an influx of immigrants from eastern Europe."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/sep/23/immigration.eu

If your quote comes from the link then it is just an extract, nothing to do with Farage, and the article is from 2007. After 2015, a year before the referendum, Merkel actually helped us out of the EU.

 

[Jumbo1968]

The U.K. Government have handed over another £500 million to the French, probably give it to the smugglers to buy more boats.

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

A citizen of an EU country was fully entitled to enter the UK when we were an EU member (as they are now).

 

Their (former) status as a refugee is irrelevant.

 

Merkel relaxing measures might have offered encouragement to the people smugglers but it isn't the root cause of the problem. Illegal economic migrants have been arriving in increasing numbers in the EU for many years.

 

The solution is obvious: Stop the flow of illegal economic migrants at the source. Unfortunately, how the EU and/or the UK accomplish that goal is far from obvious.

Any fast-track from migrant to citizen status within the EU entirely relevant to the Brexit issue.

 

Of course Merkel's measures encouraged people smugglers' to take advantage of the German/EU welcome mat and Schengen - it is one cause of the rising problem - Illegal economic migrants may have been arriving in the UK via the EU for "many years" but that number is now increasing exponentially, as these Channel crossing numbers show (below): 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53699511

 

[nauseus]

12 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

The U.K. Government have handed over another £500 million to the French, probably give it to the smugglers to buy more boats.

 

I think some of it is for a new departure lounge.

[Hi from France]

2 hours ago, transam said:

The UK should have the Royal Navy on standby with one of these below. As the rubber things land, they are ushered onto it. Then they are taken back to where they departed and disembarked, the vessel has no need to dock.....Job done...........????

 

Where would you drop these people with that barge? As you know, whith brexit the UK has lost any possibility to expel to neighboring countries.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

Where would you drop these people with that barge? As you know, whith brexit the UK has lost any possibility to expel to neighboring countries.

It's a shallow water landing craft, dump them to the exact place they got into the rubber thing......

 

 

[RayC]

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Any fast-track from migrant to citizen status within the EU entirely relevant to the Brexit issue.

Why and how?

 

Moreover, unless this 'fast track' procedure has compromised security what's the problem?

 

22 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

Of course Merkel's measures encouraged people smugglers' to take advantage of the German/EU welcome mat and Schengen - it is one cause of the rising problem - Illegal economic migrants may have been arriving in the UK via the EU for "many years" but that number is now increasing exponentially, as these Channel crossing numbers show (below): 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53699511

 

Re the graph: Other than show that Illegal boat crossings are on the up what does it prove? At best, you are confusing correlation with causation.

 

If a border is open it is, by definition, easier to cross than one where controls operate. However, Germany has had an open border with all its' neighbours since 2007 - and to the West long before that - which predates Merkel's relaxing of restrictions.

 

The continual easing of restrictions in Germany suggests that intuitively it would become a more attractive destination for illegal migrants. Why this relaxation of restrictions in Germany would, in turn, make the UK more attractive isn't clear to me?

 

I strongly suspect that those attempting to reach the UK do so simply because it is the only country - for whatever reason - where they want to settle. To that end, for these people, what measures are taken in France, Germany or elsewhere is largely irrelevant; they will continue to try to reach the UK.

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, transam said:

Has the UK broken up before then....?

Try and stay in context, or is that too much to expect.

[transam]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Try and stay in context, or is that too much to expect.

Can't answer the question then, just say so.............