17 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I just did mention it, and by no means for the first time.

 

 

Excellent.

 

So we are in agreement. The government's immigration policy is not a total failure.

 

Why didn't you mention that before? Actually, most of us know why.

4 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Excellent.

 

So we are in agreement. The government's immigration policy is not a total failure.

 

Why didn't you mention that before? Actually, most of us know why.

No we are not in agreement.

 

Around 500 Albanians have been returned with ‘statements’ that more will follow (more haven’t followed).

 

And a border is either secure or not secure.

 

The boarders are demonstrably not secure.

 

The massive growth in cross channel migration since 2018 is evidence of a total collapse in control over the borders.

 

Is anyone in this discussion even claiming the borders are secure?

 

 

40 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No we are not in agreement.

 

Around 500 Albanians have been returned with ‘statements’ that more will follow (more haven’t followed).

 

And a border is either secure or not secure.

 

The boarders are demonstrably not secure.

 

The massive growth in cross channel migration since 2018 is evidence of a total collapse in control over the borders.

 

Is anyone in this discussion even claiming the borders are secure?

 

 

Borders are not secure because there's a bloody great channel of water that is now being used by dodgy illegal immigrants that you support....

 

It does get tiresome explaining simple stuff to a few....

1 minute ago, transam said:

Borders are not secure because there's a bloody great channel of water that is now being used by dodgy illegal immigrants that you support....

 

It does get tiresome explaining simple stuff to a few....

Righty-o

 

And who’s job is it to control UK borders?

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Righty-o

 

And who’s job is it to control UK borders?

You mean, who's job is it to patrol the English Channel.....

I would assume the Coast Guard or Royal Navy.....????

37 minutes ago, transam said:

You mean, who's job is it to patrol the English Channel.....

I would assume the Coast Guard or Royal Navy.....????

Its laughable really . 

Pro immigration people vote against the Government taking action on illegal immigration , they take legal action to stop flights to Rwanda , call the Government "Nazis" for implementing procedures that would stop illegal immigration .

   And when there's an increase in illegal immigration , they point at the Government and tell them they've failed to control the borders .

   *We oppose clamping down on illegal immigration *

*The Government has failed in clamping down on illegal immigration *

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its laughable really . 

Pro immigration people vote against the Government taking action on illegal immigration , they take legal action to stop flights to Rwanda , call the Government "Nazis" for implementing procedures that would stop illegal immigration .

   And when there's an increase in illegal immigration , they point at the Government and tell them they've failed to control the borders .

   *We oppose clamping down on illegal immigration *

*The Government has failed in clamping down on illegal immigration *

Yep, those folk are easily spotted on this forum, hypocrites...

1 hour ago, transam said:

You mean, who's job is it to patrol the English Channel.....

I would assume the Coast Guard or Royal Navy.....????

If I had meant the English Channel I would have said so.

 

 

50 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its laughable really . 

Pro immigration people vote against the Government taking action on illegal immigration , they take legal action to stop flights to Rwanda , call the Government "Nazis" for implementing procedures that would stop illegal immigration .

   And when there's an increase in illegal immigration , they point at the Government and tell them they've failed to control the borders .

   *We oppose clamping down on illegal immigration *

*The Government has failed in clamping down on illegal immigration *

The Government failed to control immigration, then came up with a string of increasingly illegal policies to try to control it.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If I had meant the English Channel I would have said so.

 

 

Please keep up, today's problems are to do with the English Channel....????

31 minutes ago, transam said:

Please keep up, today's problems are to do with the English Channel....????

Todays problems are to do with the Government’s failure to control the borders and immigration and their need for a distraction from all their other failures.

3 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No we are not in agreement.

 

Around 500 Albanians have been returned with ‘statements’ that more will follow (more haven’t followed).

 

And a border is either secure or not secure.

 

The boarders are demonstrably not secure.

 

The massive growth in cross channel migration since 2018 is evidence of a total collapse in control over the borders.

 

Is anyone in this discussion even claiming the borders are secure?

 

 

It is difficult to agree with you when you move the goal posts so often. 

 

First the Albanians have been sent back and now only 500. 

 

Never mind. I have sufficient critical thinking skills, un affected by disdain for a particular political party, to see the real issues. Same all on here can't do the same.

58 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Todays problems are to do with the Government’s failure to control the borders and immigration and their need for a distraction from all their other failures.

Yes, the government have failed to control the borders.   This is obviously true.  So why all the complaints from the left when they attempt to implement policies that are designed to control the borders?   I don't get this lefty logic of complaining about an issue the government has failed on then complaining even louder when they try and correct it.   

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

It is difficult to agree with you when you move the goal posts so often. 

 

First the Albanians have been sent back and now only 500. 

 

Never mind. I have sufficient critical thinking skills, un affected by disdain for a particular political party, to see the real issues. Same all on here can't do the same.

I’ve quoted the Government’s own statements with a link.

 

Take it up with the Government.

1 hour ago, James105 said:

Yes, the government have failed to control the borders.   This is obviously true.  So why all the complaints from the left when they attempt to implement policies that are designed to control the borders?   I don't get this lefty logic of complaining about an issue the government has failed on then complaining even louder when they try and correct it.   

Its easier to to criticise everything and tell others they are doing something wrong or incorrect , rather than offering a solution to any problem 

1 hour ago, James105 said:

Yes, the government have failed to control the borders.   This is obviously true.  So why all the complaints from the left when they attempt to implement policies that are designed to control the borders?   I don't get this lefty logic of complaining about an issue the government has failed on then complaining even louder when they try and correct it.   

Firstly, the assumption that the policies are meant to control the borders is demonstrably false.

 

The policies are intended to somehow discourage people who are already willing to put their life at risk.

 

Secondly the policies, all 43 of them, have failed:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/mar/07/conservatives-channel-crossings-small-boats-tories-rwanda-deportation
 

Thirdly the latest offering, and a few of the others have themselves been illegal.

 

Fourthly, the Government and ministers resorting to dehumanizing language when speaking of migrants,

 

Fifthly, it’s an international problem that will require cooperation with other nations and very specifically with the EU. 
 

The easy fixes to complex problems might appeal to some but they have consistently failed and will continue to do so.

 

And finally, the attempt to distract from all the other far more pressing Government failures is plainly obvious.

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I’ve quoted the Government’s own statements with a link.

 

Take it up with the Government.

It's not the government who keep moving the goal posts on a forum discussion.

 

It is you.

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Its easier to to criticise everything and tell others they are doing something wrong or incorrect , rather than offering a solution to any problem 

Nobody but the Government has any control over the choice of policies to be implemented.

 

So let’s not blame those who disagree with the objectively failing Government policies.

1 minute ago, youreavinalaff said:

It's not the government who keep moving the goal posts on a forum discussion.

 

It is you.

No.

 

The Government have negotiated with the Albanian Government for the return of Albanians who illegally enter the UK.

 

Around 500 have already been returned.

 

I don’t know anyone who objects to the returns of Albanians who illegally enter the UK.

 

The Government have stated more Albanians will be deported, but they have failed to deport more Albanians.

 

So Albanians can be deported, have been deported, it’s legal to do so and nobody objects.

 

But the Government is failing to return more Albanians.

 

Not my fault.

 

The Government’s fault.

On 3/15/2023 at 4:38 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

My prediction is the ‘detention center’ the Tories are funding with UK tax payer’s money will be converted to an asylum creating center once the UK has replaced the Tories with a rational Government.

I seem to remember the government in place before the Tories had their own agenda on immigration. My memory is a little cloudy, but I recall it was something along the lines of "let then all in as they will vote for the left".

18 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

No.

 

The Government have negotiated with the Albanian Government for the return of Albanians who illegally enter the UK.

 

Around 500 have already been returned.

 

I don’t know anyone who objects to the returns of Albanians who illegally enter the UK.

 

The Government have stated more Albanians will be deported, but they have failed to deport more Albanians.

 

So Albanians can be deported, have been deported, it’s legal to do so and nobody objects.

 

But the Government is failing to return more Albanians.

 

Not my fault.

 

The Government’s fault.

You seem to misunderstand or refuse to accept, I'm not sure which, that I am questioning your continual denial that you are moving the goalposts to suit yourself. Nothing to do with the Government, unless they tell you what to say.

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

I seem to remember the government in place before the Tories had their own agenda on immigration. My memory is a little cloudy, but I recall it was something along the lines of "let then all in as they will vote for the left".

Well nothing to do with todays problems but a nice try at dragging in a whataboutary from over a decade ago.

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

Well nothing to do with todays problems but a nice try at dragging in a whataboutary from over a decade ago.

Those policies from a little over a decade ago have shaped the electorate itself to be pro-immigration, let alone any government. Very much on point.

2 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

You seem to misunderstand or refuse to accept, I'm not sure which, that I am questioning your continual denial that you are moving the goalposts to suit yourself. Nothing to do with the Government, unless they tell you what to say.

I’m not moving the goalposts.

 

Fact 1.

The Government have an agreement with the Albanian Government to return Albanians who enter the UK illegally.

 

Fact 2.

500 Albanians have already been returned 

 

Fact 3.

Their return is legal.

Fact 4. 
The Government have said more Albanians will be returned.

 

Fact 5.

The Government haven’t returned more Albanians.

 

 

Albanians can be returned, Albanians have been returned, but right now for some reason best known to the Government Albanians are not being returned.

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

Those policies from a little over a decade ago have shaped the electorate itself to be pro-immigration, let alone any government. Very much on point.

How?

5 hours ago, transam said:

Borders are not secure because there's a bloody great channel of water that is now being used by dodgy illegal immigrants that you support....

 

It does get tiresome explaining simple stuff to a few....

I seem to recall the channel was always there, and then coincident with Brexit the Government lost control of the border and immigration.

 

I don’t support illegal immigration, that’s just you engaging in ad hominem again.

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I seem to recall the channel was always there, and then coincident with Brexit the Government lost control of the border and immigration.

The channel was also there when net migration quadrupled under Labour, well before Brexit.

 

Brexit was a disaster and I'm not particularly fond of the current bunch, but to insinuate that the border has only opened up recently and only under the Tories is misinformation.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_under_New_Labour_from_1997_-_2010

 

Plenty of other sources with a quick search if Wikipedia is not to your liking.

1 minute ago, Woof999 said:

The channel was also there when net migration quadrupled under Labour, well before Brexit.

 

Brexit was a disaster and I'm not particularly fond of the current bunch, but to insinuate that the border has only opened up recently and only under the Tories is misinformation.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_under_New_Labour_from_1997_-_2010

 

Plenty of other sources with a quick search if Wikipedia is not to your liking.

Immigration under Labour was a completely different issue than the immigration being discussed in this topic.

5 minutes ago, Woof999 said:

 

Brexit was a disaster and I'm not particularly fond of the current bunch, but to insinuate that the border has only opened up recently and only under the Tories is misinformation.

 

Brexit has been a success in stopping mass immigration from Europe .

   Whether you agree with Brexit or not, you cannot deny that Brexit has stopped mass immigration 

Troll post and reply removed.