Curfews considered in harsher measures to control forest and farm fires

[webfact]

 

The Thai government may resort to harsher measures, including curfews in some areas, to deal with the lighting of forest fires and burning of farm waste, Minister of Natural Resources and Environment Varawut Silpa-archa warned today (Monday), as air pollution in northern and north-eastern provinces increases.

 

He said that the government does not want to impose harsh measures, which may affect a lot of people, but may have no choice if some continue to light fires in forests and burn their farm waste.

 

The minister disclosed that the Thai government has sought help from the Secretary-General of ASEAN, in reminding member countries about the cross-border haze problem and urging their citizens not to burn farm waste or light forest fires, but the problem persists.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/curfews-considered-in-harsher-measures-to-control-forest-and-farm-fires/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2023-03-28

 

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[RichardColeman]

2 hours ago, webfact said:

He said that the government does not want to impose harsh measures, which may affect a lot of people, but may have no choice if some continue to light fires in forests and burn their farm waste.

As opposed to polluting and making more people ill ? 

[Expat68]

Need to do something ???????? but promises every year

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

The Thai government may resort to harsher measures, including curfews in some areas

Curfews?

What a totally inept government.

[mania]

3 hours ago, webfact said:

if some continue to light fires in forests and burn their farm waste.

This burning farm waste or fields to clear for next crop is an easy one to fix

 

I mean the perfect square rice fields are burnt at night & black in the morning &

obvious what has happened

 

Patrol & find these charred Rai's. Penalty no usage for one season first offense

Farmers will think twice about clearing with fire if they cannot replant for a year of loss income

 

About lighting forest fires...enlist the Thai people themselves who love baht more than anything

Suddenly you have a deputized force of thousands patrolling looking for income

Offer a (anonymous) reward for folks to film with their phones any fire starters

 

 

[dinsdale]

59 minutes ago, mania said:

This burning farm waste or fields to clear for next crop is an easy one to fix

 

I mean the perfect square rice fields are burnt at night & black in the morning &

obvious what has happened

 

Patrol & find these charred Rai's. Penalty no usage for one season first offense

Farmers will think twice about clearing with fire if they cannot replant for a year of loss income

 

About lighting forest fires...enlist the Thai people themselves who love baht more than anything

Suddenly you have a deputized force of thousands patrolling looking for income

Offer a (anonymous) reward for folks to film with their phones any fire starters

 

 

You are advocating taking income and food away from some of the poorest people in the land. Burning is the cheapest way. As it is depending on the price of rice the cost of production can be higher than the incoming money from sales. A net loss in other words. Margins are always thin for rice producers and many farmers only have a few rai so they they don't make much money or sometimes lose money. Your suggestion would see these families who already struggle be put into abject poverty. Rice farmers need to be subsidised for a cleaner way to deal with their paddy fields post harvest and pre-planting rather than have draconian penalties placed upon them.

[worgeordie]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

He said that the government does not want to impose harsh measures, which may affect a lot of people,

     That's  the problem , they are not taking the problem seriously enough, 

they are fiddling while Thailand burns , and the population suffers from the

smoke , I have never heard of one aronist been caught , the arsonists are

not afraid to light fires ,because there are no one out there to catch them,

 

Get the Police , Army ,any volunteer's , out up in the hills , they could use

drones , helicopters , road blocks ,  catch some of these arsonists ,give

them prison terms , not 500 Baht fines , then they may realise it is not

acceptable to burn the forests, fields , that it affects' people's health and 

the tourist industry...It happens every year , same time , same places ,and

the cannot do anything to stop it, ....or wont.

 

regards worgeordie

 

 

 

[ikke1959]

A curfew??? Ok we burn only in daytime ...

[Tarteso]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

The Thai government may resort to harsher measures, including

Blah Blah 

[recom273]

25 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

You are advocating taking income and food away from some of the poorest people in the land. Burning is the cheapest way. As it is depending on the price of rice the cost of production can be higher than the incoming money from sales. A net loss in other words. Margins are always thin for rice producers and many farmers only have a few rai so they they don't make much money or sometimes lose money. Your suggestion would see these families who already struggle be put into abject poverty. Rice farmers need to be subsidised for a cleaner way to deal with their paddy fields post harvest and pre-planting rather than have draconian penalties placed upon them.

Well, something NEEDS to be done. I'm not suggesting that people need to be penalized, but the world cannot accept that just because some of the farmers have little money that they can cause such a catastrophic impact, on the planet along with the quality of life and health of so many. This may not even be a Thai issue, if supermarkets and their chain were to be made aware / put pressure on suppliers / pay more, then this yearly mess maybe wouldn't occur.

 

Why is it that field burners are a minority in my area? Every morning and night the village headmen are asking people over the PA systems not to burn fields, and on the most part, it's working - it's only a few selfish individuals that persist. Is ignorance linked to poverty?

[mikebell]

'During the first nine weeks of 2023 alone, more than 1.32 million people in Thailand became ill because of diseases related to air pollution, according to government figures.'  From UK Guardian - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/27/air-pollution-chokes-thailand-as-campaigners-call-for-stricter-laws-chiang-mai

What a pathetic response from the Gov.  I've been here 19 years and heard it repeated EVERY year!

[dinsdale]

55 minutes ago, recom273 said:

Well, something NEEDS to be done. I'm not suggesting that people need to be penalized, but the world cannot accept that just because some of the farmers have little money that they can cause such a catastrophic impact, on the planet along with the quality of life and health of so many. This may not even be a Thai issue, if supermarkets and their chain were to be made aware / put pressure on suppliers / pay more, then this yearly mess maybe wouldn't occur.

 

Why is it that field burners are a minority in my area? Every morning and night the village headmen are asking people over the PA systems not to burn fields, and on the most part, it's working - it's only a few selfish individuals that persist. Is ignorance linked to poverty?

I can only speak for rice but the paddy does need to be prepared for planting. Burning is done to get rid of the rice straw and control weeds and it is thought to help with the next crop. The straw can be ploughed in but from what I know there is a possibilty of damage to the plough disc (which the farmers would have to pay for) and that the straw in the ground is not ideal when it comes to planting. Neighbouring countries must also be considered as wind and smoke are not bound by borders. The straw could be harvested but this is an extra cost and there would need to be a market for it. If farmers still used buffalo it could I guess be used as fodder but this is no longer the case as farming proccesses are for the most part mechanised. Burning is considered the cheapest and thought of as beneficial. It's how to change this way of thinking and the practice of doing it that needs to be tackled not only in Thailand but Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar before any real progress can be made .....IMO.

Edited March 28, 2023 by dinsdale

[Tropposurfer]

If the government invested in co-op tillers, and rolled them out across the nation, also slashing machines for the rice fields and other farmed areas with free or subsidised diesel for them and education around collecting and composting all this green fertiliser much could be done to amend this ancient practice and improve the bio-content of the soil and amend the leeching that takes place because of heavy rains.   

 

My family worked for the CSR for 3 generations so I have some understanding of that industry.

 

As for cane field burning this was the practice in Australia until approximately 30 years ago. It is banned in many regions of the Aussie north due to pollution laws, better understanding of cane growing, newer ways to maximum harvest, and the introduction of mechanical harvesters instead of hand harvesting. Cane farmers still burn in Oz, but there are some caveats in doing so, and it is not at all a normal practice now.

Now the base of the plant is left in the soil undisturbed to produces another crop next season. 

The milled waste is rowed composted and used as fertiliser and mulch products.

 

Burning was/is done to make harvesting easier by the cutters. Cane has a sawtooth edge to the leaves and scratches and cuts you very readily, hence the burning practice. If it runs across your face - big scars, across the eye - it will blind you. Not to mention the really poisonous Aussie snakes that love to live in the cane fields and their oft pray field rats.

It was also said burning the foliage of the cane increased the sugar yield from the cane but now with newer strains of cane this need has been made obsolete.

 

Surely the Thai government and sugar companies, who make insane profits from the cane that enters their mills, could buy purpose fit harvesters for Thai conditions and use them co-op style thus a huge proportion of the yearly burn could be ended.

[SoilSpoil]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

You are advocating taking income and food away from some of the poorest people in the land. Burning is the cheapest way. As it is depending on the price of rice the cost of production can be higher than the incoming money from sales. A net loss in other words. Margins are always thin for rice producers and many farmers only have a few rai so they they don't make much money or sometimes lose money. Your suggestion would see these families who already struggle be put into abject poverty. Rice farmers need to be subsidised for a cleaner way to deal with their paddy fields post harvest and pre-planting rather than have draconian penalties placed upon them.

So money above 30,000 casualties a year?  Same logic apples to an armed but oso poor robber, its all forgiven cause hes poor.

[dinsdale]

16 minutes ago, SoilSpoil said:

So money above 30,000 casualties a year?  Same logic apples to an armed but oso poor robber, its all forgiven cause hes poor.

People's health Vs People's livelihoods. It's an interesting ethical and moral dilemma. As for your analogy I remember an article about a teenager being beheaded and a boy having his hand chopped off for 'stealing' some bread out of a supermarket bin. They did what they did because they had no food. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by dinsdale

[Will B Good]

How the hell does a curfew stop someone lighting a fire.....????

[cardinalblue]

28 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

I can only speak for rice but the paddy does need to be prepared for planting. Burning is done to get rid of the rice straw and control weeds and it is thought to help with the next crop. The straw can be ploughed in but from what I know there is a possibilty of damage to the plough disc (which the farmers would have to pay for) and that the straw in the ground is not ideal when it comes to planting. Neighbouring countries must also be considered as wind and smoke are not bound by borders. The straw could be harvested but this is an extra cost and there would need to be a market for it. If farmers still used buffalo it could I guess be used as fodder but this is no longer the case as farming proccesses are for the most part mechanised. Burning is considered the cheapest and thought of as beneficial. It's how to change this way of thinking and the practice of doing it that needs to be tackled not only in Thailand but Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar before any real progress can be made .....IMO.

Stop with the excuses…cheapest, damage to the plow….what about damage to one’s lungs and eyes? Who is paying for that?

 

retrain them into a different job

[dinsdale]

I just found this. Quite interesting and worth a read to put some things into perspective.

https://www.siani.se/wp-content/uploads/files/profile/key_papers/alternatives_to_open_field_burning_on_paddy_farms.pdf

[Will B Good]

34 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

I can only speak for rice but the paddy does need to be prepared for planting. Burning is done to get rid of the rice straw and control weeds and it is thought to help with the next crop. The straw can be ploughed in but from what I know there is a possibilty of damage to the plough disc (which the farmers would have to pay for) and that the straw in the ground is not ideal when it comes to planting. Neighbouring countries must also be considered as wind and smoke are not bound by borders. The straw could be harvested but this is an extra cost and there would need to be a market for it. If farmers still used buffalo it could I guess be used as fodder but this is no longer the case as farming proccesses are for the most part mechanised. Burning is considered the cheapest and thought of as beneficial. It's how to change this way of thinking and the practice of doing it that needs to be tackled not only in Thailand but Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar before any real progress can be made .....IMO.

We live in about 2000 acres of rice fields and none of the rice straw is burned......it is piled up and used for cattle or left to breakdown in the fields.

 

The only place this doesn't happen is around BKK where greedy farmers try to get two crops a year.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Will B Good

[dinsdale]

2 minutes ago, cardinalblue said:

Stop with the excuses…cheapest, damage to the plow….what about damage to one’s lungs and eyes? Who is paying for that?

 

retrain them into a different job

Good idea. Stop all rice, sugar etc production immidialtely. Well thought out comment.

[Joseph98765]

Easy solution...

Less Submarines and F-35, more tractors for the farmers... I belive for the price of a F-35 you can get 15-20 tractors brand new

Buy lets say 20-30 tractors per province and let them rent per day with a fair price for them so they don't need to buy their own.

[Will B Good]

Just now, Joseph98765 said:

Easy solution...

Less Submarines and F-35, more tractors for the farmers... I belive for the price of a F-35 you can get 15-20 tractors brand new

Buy lets say 20-30 tractors per province and let them rent per day with a fair price for them so they don't need to buy their own.

Very few farmers don't have a tractor, or easy access to one.

 

The problem is allowing sugarcane leaves to be burned either in situ or on the ground.

 

The only way out of this is the demand all sugarcane is delivered with the leaves on and the big processors have to deal with them in a safe manner.....landfill?

[dinsdale]

2 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

We live in about 2000 acres of rice fields and none of the rice straw is burned......it is piled up and used for cattle or left to breakdown in the fields.

 

The only place this doesn't happen is around BKK where greedy farmers try to get two crops a year.

There are other regions where 2 crops a year are possible because these places have access to irrigation. Generally the 1st crop is sold and the 2nd is mainly for domestic consumption. So not just greedy famers but yes these areas do burn off.

[jvs]

No need to burn rice straw this year any way,prices of hay are thru the roof!

Again,too little too late.

It is all to blame on the government,they have all year to deal with this but the same as every year they wait to pretend to do something when the people are choking.

Soon the rains are here and face is saved for another year.

 

[Will B Good]

4 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

There are other regions where 2 crops a year are possible because these places have access to irrigation. Generally the 1st crop is sold and the 2nd is mainly for domestic consumption. So not just greedy famers but yes these areas do burn off.

I've said thanks....don't understand why we can't see who has posted what emoji wise????

[Joseph98765]

1 hour ago, worgeordie said:

     That's  the problem , they are not taking the problem seriously enough, 

they are fiddling while Thailand burns , and the population suffers from the

smoke , I have never heard of one aronist been caught , the arsonists are

not afraid to light fires ,because there are no one out there to catch them,

 

Get the Police , Army ,any volunteer's , out up in the hills , they could use

drones , helicopters , road blocks ,  catch some of these arsonists ,give

them prison terms , not 500 Baht fines , then they may realise it is not

acceptable to burn the forests, fields , that it affects' people's health and 

the tourist industry...It happens every year , same time , same places ,and

the cannot do anything to stop it, ....or wont.

 

regards worgeordie

 

 

 

Yeah that's right, in the spanish inquisition, they killed the sinners in front of everyone to let them know what can happen... get some arsonists, make an example punishment to let the rest what could happen...and maybe that can improve things, next movement...farmers.

[Joseph98765]

9 minutes ago, Will B Good said:

Very few farmers don't have a tractor, or easy access to one.

 

The problem is allowing sugarcane leaves to be burned either in situ or on the ground.

 

The only way out of this is the demand all sugarcane is delivered with the leaves on and the big processors have to deal with them in a safe manner.....landfill?

yes, that's why I said Less submarines....government or whoever is..

[brianthainess]

There is big Company that do burn offs and this government won't touch 'em. 

[mania]

2 hours ago, dinsdale said:

You are advocating taking income and food away from some of the poorest people in the land. Burning is the cheapest way.

Well speeding is the quickest way to travel to market

Should we also let them speed & kill on the highways & of course not fine them as they are poor?

 

Come on....Laws are enforced. I didn't say fine them or confiscate their lands but yeah if they continue to kill

folks with lung cancer etc etc of course there is a penalty. Not using the land for one season is mild compared to the

26,000 bad air related deaths in 2022 recently reported

[Will B Good]

3 hours ago, mania said:

This burning farm waste or fields to clear for next crop is an easy one to fix

 

I mean the perfect square rice fields are burnt at night & black in the morning &

obvious what has happened

 

Patrol & find these charred Rai's. Penalty no usage for one season first offense

Farmers will think twice about clearing with fire if they cannot replant for a year of loss income

 

About lighting forest fires...enlist the Thai people themselves who love baht more than anything

Suddenly you have a deputized force of thousands patrolling looking for income

Offer a (anonymous) reward for folks to film with their phones any fire starters

 

 

Never going to happen.....sugarcane is the killer....all sugarcane to be delivered with their leaves attached.