Trump’s Vision for a Government Overhaul with RFK Jr. and Elon Musk Gaining Power

[DRD123]

54 minutes ago, Sig said:

I can't speak for Chiangmai much, but in Maehongson, it is not far greater today at all, it's just as bad as two decades ago. The only thing that has been likely to have changed is the amount of money in some particular persons' pockets who formed some sort of "Stop the Smoke!" campaign every year. I remember, I believe it was 2003, being amazed at how you could probably sit there and stare at the sun, or the direction it appeared to be in but was maybe not able to be pinpointed exactly, for an hour and it probably wouldn't bother you in the least. The smoke was so thick, it stunned me how people could live in it... then I proceeded to do just that! hahaha I've often wondered what the lifespan of the villagers is like in areas like this compared to other areas of Thailand. There is no getting away from it in Maehongson, at least for the people I work with, since many of them live in homes that are not even remotely able to be sealed... with gaps in the wood or made from bamboo and no glass in the windows and gaps between the top of the walls and the roof with no sealed-off ceiling. I'd be willing to bet that there is a statistically significant difference in life expectancy in areas like this and a MUCH higher rate of respiratory diseases/illnesses.

The best i could come up with for health stats in the North was lung cancer rates were double compared to the South. Along with that will be the inflammation damage a particle like 2.5PM imparts, diabetes, heart disease, brain damage etc.

 

I think the solution is monetizing the crop waste. Dry it, chip it burn it at high temps and scrub the exhaust and make electricity thereby giving the farmers a reason to collect and sell the crop waste. Compost facilities that produce heat as a by product will serve to preheat the water that is then sent into the steam turbine that is heated to boiling by burning the very same crop waste. So two by products: power and composted soil.

 

Speaking of economics digging around i daw a stat that the smoke haze costs TH up to 5% GDP. I think more if you factor in slow crop growth due to lumens being blocked by the smoke ie: smoke reduces crop yield in the billions of baht lost...likely trillions of crop yield lost let alone the health costs associated.

 

I have also seen a statistic saying that road carnage has around the same effect on GDP. These two areas of concern to myself and many others, if mitigated would propel TH into another realm wealth wise.

 

As for me I have chosen to live South of Chumphon to avoid this air pollution which is bittersweet because I love the north and it's residents very, very much.

If you look at historical data, which is available here:

 https://aqicn.org/station/thailand/surat-thani/regional-environmental-office-14 in some locations at least , the best i can come up with is the North/South mountain range hems in the smoke all the way down the isthmus to approx Chumphon where the fresh Pacific air hits and there is no mountain range to hold the smoke in. This is the best i can come up with from daily observation of the AQI sites and wind patterns and the NASA satelitte burn map.

 

https://firms.modaps.eosdis.nasa.gov/map/#t:adv;d:2021-01-07..2021-01-16;@103.3,14.6,6z

 

 

Here is an amazing documentary on the North on Opium that has smoke haze at various points quite visible. It was filmed in the 1980's and is a fantastic watch.

 

Asia's Golden Triangle - Behind the scenes of the opium trade

 

 

[nigelforbes]

Just now, spidermike007 said:

Yes the lazy, lethargic, ineffective, indifferent, pathetic, so called leaders do nothing

Do I sense some animosity or disdain towards the leadership?

[scorecard]

45 minutes ago, stix40 said:

Needs addressing pronto!

Very true, but nobody wants to get serious with the Myanmar army/government.

 

Thai army and Myanmar army are military brothers in lock step, as recently displayed when prayuth rushed to meet and hug the Military chief/PM of Myanmar for 10 seconds, all on video. 

 

Prayuth is not going to say anything even slightly negative to the Myanmar general. 

 

One angle, the Myanmar military generals and their junior officers and NCOs and their troops are very ruthless and very violent.

 

Is The Thai army ready to do the same? NO.

 

Seems to me if the 2 armies really clashed the Thailand troops would be decimated.

 

How would prayuth explain that to all Thais? He couldn't.

 

So better to leave the current status quo. Leave all the problems unsolved and look the other way.  

 

Edited April 3, 2023 by scorecard

[RichardColeman]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

Thailand is seeking cooperation from neighbouring countries to address cross-border air pollution, which is seriously impacting the northern provinces of Thailand.

Problem solved. Need to place a few thousand of these along the border

[Thailand]

Massive fines for the "real owners" of the land where the arson takes place, it's not exactly difficult to see the burning or where burning has occurred. Jail for repeat offences.

 

Maybe create a no nonsense fire police if that were possible in Thailand?

 

[Rimmer]

A post in caps has been removd

[nigelforbes]

9 minutes ago, Thailand said:

Massive fines for the "real owners" of the land where the arson takes place, it's not exactly difficult to see the burning or where burning has occurred. Jail for repeat offences.

 

Maybe create a no nonsense fire police if that were possible in Thailand?

 

I agree, large fines, land confiscation, high profile cases and jail time.

[Tarteso]

And now, will come the best;

A few millions to the pockets of a few politicians. ????

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

Do I sense some animosity or disdain towards the leadership?

Yes. And in 8 years of speaking to many Thais, from all walks of life, I can only recall a single person who was supportive of them. Prayuth, and Prawit are some of the most despised and least respected men in Thailand. Utter misanthropes. 

[sambum]

4 hours ago, bbbbooboo said:

Hmmm…. Why would this be new news. Chiang mai has had polution problems for a least a decade. Maybe someone just woke up?

"  ...... relevant parts of the private sector will now step in to provide help to the residents of the three villages within three months.

 

And why don't the Government step in to provide help? Maybe a few backhanders being made in order to secure lucrative contracts?

 

And why not  NOW? In three months time there will probably be a few more deaths due to this pollution.

 

It beggars belief that this happens year after year, yet is allowed to carry on unabated - possibly because wealthy landowners are greasing a few palms, or as it is put over here - handing over a few brown envelopes/tea money?

 

[sambum]

1 hour ago, nigelforbes said:

I agree, large fines, land confiscation, high profile cases and jail time.

Yes indeed - as I used to be told when I was a kid, "where there's a will there's a way"

Unfortunately, in this case there is obviously no "will", except possibly those made out by some of the poor souls who have succumbed to the toxic fumes!.

 

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, PETERTHEEATER said:

Note that, according to the OP article, being declared a Disaster Zone will trigger government aid within three months!

A bag of rice and a bottle of water?

[chaila]

5 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

Yes, they do need to do that. But you have to wonder about the scale of the problem when northern provinces have AQI numbers in the 5, 6 and 7 hundreds yet the rest of the country is substantially lower. Do the bad burners only live in the North or does pollution from the neighboring countries play a more important role in the North than in the South. As a northern resident of two decades, I believe the North suffers from proximity problems that are mitigated elsewhere in the country by distance and wind currents.

Summer storms from 28/3 until 2/4

[chaila]

Just now, chaila said:

Summer storms from 28/3 until 2/4

 

[chaila]

Just now, chaila said:

 

Could this be the reason that the AQI readings are lower than those from Chiang Mai

[vivananahuahin]

too busy with the elections, a news item.

[Purdey]

The old blame game isn't going to help. Clearly farmers in the North believe the old slash and burn method is best because there is no cheap alternative.

How did other countries overcome this problem? What are alternative methods that are inexpensive? 

I assume other countries overcame the problem so why can't Thailand learn from them? 

[Aussiepeter]

2 hours ago, jesimps said:

I'm so pleased that I chose to live in Pattaya. I went to Chiang Mai once, before I knew about its pollution problems and thought it would be a boring place to live. Now since I've been reading about the smog they have to contend with for long periods, I can't understand why any farang would want to live there.

When I first moved to C Mai in 1992 the air in the city itself was pretty good most of the time. The only time I even saw burning was around Chiang Dao when visiting friends there. After marrying in 2001 we settled in Mae Hia near the airport & I noticed the smog was getting worse. Where it had only ever been noticeable outside the town from about March to June, now it was seriously affecting the city area. By 2007 it was affecting the city from January to July & getting worse each year.

In 2008 we built a 2 storey house in Saraphi & moved out there, but when our daughter was born in 2010 it was obvious to me that the air would never improve & that it was no place to raise a family.

By 2012 it had become so severe that I applied for my wife to migrate to Australia. We had spent several million baht building a home that we loved, but the filthy air had given me a serious cough (I am a non-smoker). Just as we sold our house in 2013, another Australian finished building a bungalow across the road from us at a cost of 4 million baht. It was immaculate. When he asked why I was leaving after all these years, I told him the truth - I didn't want to die early from lung disease. 

 

After we moved to Australia in 2013, I was diagnosed with cancer of the larynx, almost certainly caused by years of exposure to the filthy C Mai air. Six years after treatment, I returned to C Mai briefly in March 2019 and was horrified to see just how bad the air pollution had become. As we descended approaching C Mai and the aircraft dropped from clear blue sky into brownish soup, the obviously Aussie pilot laughingly commented "we will be landing at C Mai airport in about fifteen minutes - if we can see it" ! The second day there I was walking in town when a C130 aircraft flew over & dumped a load of water, in a futile attempt at helping the air quality. 

 

Last week I finally got the "all clear" from my ENT specialist, ten years after months of radiation therapy. I showed him the current pictures of the foul air in C Mai and he was stunned. He then said "nobody can live in that - there must be thousands there whose life expectancy will be massively impacted" & he was spot on. Every C Mai Governor for the last 25 years has been either unable or unwilling to do anything about the burning. Friends tell me the 'burning season' in Nth & NE Thailand now starts in December and goes pretty much till about August or the rains come, whichever is sooner. No thanks. 

[Denim]

England had king Canute. Thailand has old Prayuth .

 

Ordering is one thing. Effective action another.

 

Oh well, the rainy season will fix everything until next time.

[scorecard]

3 hours ago, Thailand said:

Massive fines for the "real owners" of the land where the arson takes place, it's not exactly difficult to see the burning or where burning has occurred. Jail for repeat offences.

 

Maybe create a no nonsense fire police if that were possible in Thailand?

 

The real owners are very probably rich and powerful and untouchable. Nobody, including prayut would dare to sanctions them, criticize them. 

 

Thailand can't even get close to an 'ethical, moral, high values, honest, professional, not corrupt, promoted by displayed high performance main police force.

 

And bottom line nobody is really trying.

 

'no nonsense fire police' ..... no further comment.....

[thecyclist]

Two decades ago it was the South that was in the pollution headlines. Year after year during the burning season, Singapore, Malaysia and Southern Thailand were blanketed in smog, most of it coming from Indonesia. Is it seasonal in the north as well? 

[Bangkok Barry]

10 hours ago, webfact said:

The pollution in Chiang Mai is described as the worst in the world

Yaa! Thailan nummer one.

[Bangkok Barry]

4 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

My wife and I discussed this yesterday, we both agreed that the identity of virtually ALL the burners is known to local villagers yet nobody is prepared to do anything. Dont expect serious rioting or local people taking matters into their hands soon.

That applies to just about everything in Thailand. Road deaths, hanging wires etc. Thailand - Hub of apathy.

[brewsterbudgen]

Just now, Bangkok Barry said:

That applies to just about everything in Thailand. Road deaths, hanging wires etc. Thailand - Hub of apathy.

Yes.  The horrible air is just one more negative to factor in if you plan to live here.  Lots of positives as well, though.

[Bangkok Barry]

3 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Yes.  The horrible air is just one more negative to factor in if you plan to live here.  Lots of positives as well, though.

Same as everywhere.

[Thailand]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

The real owners are very probably rich and powerful and untouchable. Nobody, including prayut would dare to sanctions them, criticize them. 

 

Thailand can't even get close to an 'ethical, moral, high values, honest, professional, not corrupt, promoted by displayed high performance main police force.

 

And bottom line nobody is really trying.

 

'no nonsense fire police' ..... no further comment.....

I posted whilst I was sleeping, it was simply a dream! ????

[DRD123]

1 hour ago, Purdey said:

The old blame game isn't going to help. Clearly farmers in the North believe the old slash and burn method is best because there is no cheap alternative.

How did other countries overcome this problem? What are alternative methods that are inexpensive? 

I assume other countries overcame the problem so why can't Thailand learn from them? 

From what i understand it's due to modernization. Combines and mechanical harvesting cannot get as close to the ground as hand cutting the harvest so there is more stubble left and burning is the fastest method. Its more then the stubble though thats burnt. The potash from the burnt residue has negilgble fertilizer value.

Again the"waste" needs to be monetized to incentivize the recovery and sale of plant waste.

Bottle returns changed the landscape back home. I am old enough to remember people chucking bottles out the window...and drink driving etc etc

 

Its not that complex, its just trillions of baht being burnt up instead of captured in electrical production recovery steam turbines or soil building. This drags down the economy and makes everyone poorer, drives up health care costs and dissuades farang from spending money here. 

 

I wont live up North but i will visit in the rainy season and enjoy the beauty there.

[scorecard]

31 minutes ago, Thailand said:

I posted whilst I was sleeping, it was simply a dream! ????

We're all entiled to a deam ocasionally. And sometimess miracles happen...

[Hugh Jarse]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Yes the lazy, lethargic, ineffective, indifferent, pathetic, so called leaders do nothing. They are not stopping the farmers from burning crops, even though the law was passed. They likely continue to accept massive payoffs from the sugar industry. Thailand continues to be one of the few countries continuing to promote filthy diesel vehicles. So much could be done. Wildfires and pollution from neighboring countries are an issue. But, it is only part of the problem. The lack of leadership is a huge problem. 

A vital point re leadership, but ASEAN leaders also lacking in a decisive leadership plan.. Technology exists in the form of Mulcher machines as an alternative to burning. Govt should encourage this and the sugar industry division forced to use some of their massive profits to fund mulchers. Burning is banned in Europe so why can’t Thailand do likewise to correct such dangerous practices or am I just naive?

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, thecyclist said:

Two decades ago it was the South that was in the pollution headlines. Year after year during the burning season, Singapore, Malaysia and Southern Thailand were blanketed in smog, most of it coming from Indonesia. Is it seasonal in the north as well? 

Yes also the Nth., for decades, and getting worse year by year.