Brit in intensive care after Thailand moped crash as family can't afford to get him home

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

His injuries sort of indicate that the chances of his wearing a properly fastened helmet are probably zero.

Not at all zero.

 

Skull fractures can, and sometimes do, occur even with a helmet properly fastened.

 

They are more likely to happen in the absence of a helmet but the facty that someone has a skull fracture does not prove they were not wearing a helmet nor are the chances that they were anything approaching zero.

[Sheryl]

14 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Why does he need to lease a jet though ?.

 

Medivac repatriation can be done on a commercial aircraft a lot cheaper.

Exactly what I said.

 

Indeed it can.

 

But still going to cost around 40-50 k USD.

[phetpeter]

The Thai medical system is very good, in many cases better than the NHS. The large government hospital have all the equipment, and the doctors are also at the hos[itals, not popping in to do a few hours. everything is done and the specialist heart hospital are brillant, I have had two heart attacks in the last 15 years and have strents placed within 12 hours, and 3 monthly check ups. the first one I went to the hospitals with several problems created from the first attack, and was dealt with right away. All free because I joined the social sercuity scheme and pay 400 baht per month. If you think that the private hospitals are better you are mistaken except of course the internation renown ones. and you have too mich money to throw around.

[Dan O]

8 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Guess you know better than my insurance company then !!

Nope, I just know how they operate. Everyone thinks they're covered for everything when in reality they have exclusions and exception to many things. Most people like yourself think your covered for everything until tragedy happens and you learn the truth. 

[AdrianUk]

the volenteer ambulance crews get 10%, so they take them to expensive hospitals, in other cases its a massive bill, that could have been avoided

[Ralf001]

1 minute ago, Dan O said:

Nope, I just know how they operate. Everyone thinks they're covered for everything when in reality they have exclusions and exception to many things. Most people like yourself think your covered for everything until tragedy happens and you learn the truth. 

So what you are saying is you have no idea of my insurance policy.

 

Why are you replying with your bull<deleted> ?

[phetpeter]

If he is at private hospital, they will state they are unable or unwilling, for 2 reasons, firstly they are unwilling because they may not get the money, or they dont have the right staff to do the work. second, they dont like work that might mean the death occuring and affecting their bottom line.

[Ralf001]

4 minutes ago, phetpeter said:

If he is at private hospital, they will state they are unable or unwilling, for 2 reasons, firstly they are unwilling because they may not get the money, or they dont have the right staff to do the work. second, they dont like work that might mean the death occuring and affecting their bottom line.

Unwilling or unable to do what ?

[paulikens]

The usual outpourings of sympathy here. 

[Yellowtail]

In the over twenty years I have been here, I have received great care from the hospitals I have used and I have never had any difficulty getting my claims paid. I did have to resubmit a few claims with a clarifying statement, but they were all ultimately paid. 

[phetpeter]

By law in Thailand, they are expected to maintain life, and only enough to keep you alive, major work is at a cost. You happy to pay 10K per day just for the room and a nurse to pop in check BP and temp. go ahead.

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, paulikens said:

The usual outpourings of sympathy here. 

How much did you donate? 

[Yellowtail]

Just now, phetpeter said:

By law in Thailand, they are expected to maintain life, and only enough to keep you alive, major work is at a cost. You happy to pay 10K per day just for the room and a nurse to pop in check BP and temp. go ahead.

The last time my wife was in Bumrungrad the rooms were about 5K a day. 

[phetpeter]

5k x how many days = ??? True! if you say it quick enough, it doesnt sound to bad,

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by phetpeter

[billd766]

3 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

the big question I have is where are they getting the price UK or Thailand?  

There is not need for visas for the flight crew or medical staff as it would be a turnaround flight. There are companies that specalize in this.

 

my question though is why do they not know if he had a helmet on.  If he was wearing one it should have been on his head or at least at the accident scene.

 

The other thing that of course, the Brit newspaper does not cover is the blood alcohol content.

 

I feel sorry for him and his family but hae a hard time understanding why he was on a bike looking for food in the middle of the night.

 

It is also interesting that nothing was mentioned in the Thai news about his accident or are they that common now that they are not reported.

 

But unless the aircrew are doubled up and deadheaded they will exceed their flight hours and will need a mandatory rest period.

 

https://www.caat.or.th/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/6.2ACAAT-on-Flight-Time-and-Flight-Duty-Period-Limitation-B.E.-2559-210716.pdf

 

Flight duty period means a period which a crew member commences the duty that includes a flight or a series of flights, start counting 1 hour before the Scheduled Departure Time and stop counting 30 minute after last landing, training using mock up and travelling time by an aeroplane to carry out the flight duty and travelling time back after carried out the duties completely.

Such positioning are not count as sector.
For aircraft of a maximum certificate take-off mass not exceeding 5,700 kg, the flight duty period shall start counting 45 minute before the Scheduled Departure Time and stop counting 15 minute after last landing. 

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.1059

 

(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, during any 24 consecutive hours the total flight time of the assigned flight, when added to any commercial flying by that flight crewmember, may not exceed -

(1) 8 hours for a flight crew consisting of one pilot; or

(2) 10 hours for a flight crew consisting of two pilots qualified under this subpart for the operation being conducted.

 

If the aircraft flies from the UK to Thailand or Thailand to the UK they must have a rest period at the end of the flight, which means that they will be off the airport and will need a visa.

 

The flight time from the UK to Thailand.

 

How long is the flight to Thailand? For flights from the UK to Thailand, the most common direct route is from London to Bangkok which takes around 12 hours 15 minutes and lands at Suvarnabhumi Airport.

 

Bear in mind that the flight crew normally check in a couple of hours before take off time to enable them to check the route for weather, any mandatory diversions in the last few hours and to check the aircraft has been serviced, refuelled and correctly loaded.

 

Then there is the flight time to the destination followed by the parking, the shut down and the debriefing time before they leave the airport.

 

I certainly would not want to fly in any aircraft where the crew has not had a proper rest period.

 

It looks as though the single crew will need about 15 hours of duty time outbound, probably a 24 hour flight time before the return journey.

 

The only way around that is to have a second flight crew to fly the aircraft back. which leaves the medical crew to do their own flight downtime, or to fly out with no medical crew,and pick one up at the destination.

 

Then at the end of it you have to get 2 flight crews and one medical crew back to their starting points.

[MarkyM3]

43 minutes ago, phetpeter said:

The Thai medical system is very good, in many cases better than the NHS. The large government hospital have all the equipment, and the doctors are also at the hos[itals, not popping in to do a few hours. everything is done and the specialist heart hospital are brillant, I have had two heart attacks in the last 15 years and have strents placed within 12 hours, and 3 monthly check ups. the first one I went to the hospitals with several problems created from the first attack, and was dealt with right away. All free because I joined the social sercuity scheme and pay 400 baht per month. If you think that the private hospitals are better you are mistaken except of course the internation renown ones. and you have too mich money to throw around.

Is the option of paying 400 baht per month open to any expat or those on certain visas? Because I see a lot of posts from people on here who can't get medical insurance. I'm genuinely interested because I plan to semi-retire to Thailand for some of the year in future. 

 

Regards the NHS, plenty of faults but I've had good experiences with it for serious issues. Had brain surgery done and it was performed quickly by a class-leading surgeon.  Great after-care as well.

 

Sounds like you have had good experiences with the Thai system but I've heard complaints from Thai friends who have had to go queue early morning and wait a long time to be seen. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by MarkyM3

[Kerryd]

READ the original story (linked in the OP).

It says the accident happened in BANGKOK. Period.
He left "in the middle of the night" to get food.

It says the insurers believe he was riding without a helmet. Here's a clue - if this is true to begin with - the insurers would have the medical reports from the hospital which would be viewed by qualified people (i.e. doctors) working for the insurers. It wouldn't be hard for them to see what the injuries were and deduce how they happened. 
There could be a police report as well, which, for some reason, the RTP didn't flag and post on this site immediately after the accident. Funny that eh ?

It says he has had TWO operations and that IF the second one was unsuccessful and he had to travel home, it would cost £168,000.

What part of "IF" is so hard to understand ? 

The whole story reeks from the beginning. Here's why.

Note. The story is in the Mirror. For starters, the Mirror pays people for their "horror vacation" stories and the more horror the better. They then "fluff" the stories to gain more sympathy.

Note. The accident happened "in February" and "in Bangkok". 
NO details. Why ? Because details can be checked and verified. Was he in a hotel (CCTV cameras). Rented scooter ? How long was he in Thailand for ?

Note: They don't say WHO the "insurers" are or what kind of insurance he had. Are they trying to use his NHS coverage ? Did he have travel insurance ? Or local motorcycle (mandatory gov't) insurance ?
Again, can't have details that can be checked.

Note. Like most of these types of stories, it came out AFTER they had set up a GoFundMe.
Note: The "family" apparently has all flown here to be with him.
So the money they are looking for is to pay for his operations, their holiday and "maybe" to fly him home. Assuming there is even a "he" to begin with.

I've helped debunk a dozen fake GoFundMe scams over the last couple of years and they all have certain things in common. Like complete lack of details to prevent people from checking them. Like no hotel (or hospital) name, no exact dates, no exact location.

Remember the Brit couple that claimed they came to Thailand for their anniversary and were "beaten and robbed at gunpoint" on their first night here ? They too had a GoFundMe set up almost immediately but when the police saw the CCTV film from a hotel far away from where the couple were staying, showing the man trying to break into hotel  rooms and jumping off a 1st floor balcony to escape detection, they went to the hospital and found the couple had already snuck out and flew to Dubai. (Without paying the hospital bill of course.)

Then there was the Canadian "model" who claimed a friend of hers had been in a motorcycle accident "in Phuket" and she need to raise funds to go there and bring her home. No details on the hospital, or the accident, or even her friend's name.
The local newspaper had no report of a foreign woman in an accident. I tried telling the woman behind the GoFundMe that I was in Phuket and would go check on the fellow Canadian at the hospital. No response of course.

And then the friend posted a bunch of photos on her Facebook. Of the beach. And the pool. And the hotel. Not one of her friend.

The two Irish guys who claimed they'd been drugged and raped in Thailand and that their insurance company had refused to pay for AIDS tests. They got home, made up the rape story, sold it to the Mirror then used the "rape" claim to get free AIDs testing.
Turns out they'd been drinking and partying in Thailand and having "risky" sex with various gay men. They went to a local hospital to get AIDS testing and tried to use their UK (NHS) insurance, which was refused.

The three Australian women who spend a couple weeks at a hotel, then snuck out on their last day and flew out without paying their bill. When they were back in Oz they sold their story (sensing a trend here ?) and claimed that one of the women had been raped in her room and that is why they decided to sneak out and leave without paying their bill.

However, hotel security cameras showed one woman bringing two men back to her room (willingly) and a couple hours later they left and she stood at the door waving good-bye to them. A couple hours later the three of them were seen sneaking out of the hotel.
They made up the story so they wouldn't have to pay their hotel bill when their vacation was over.
(Funny how they told the story to the Mirror but never went to the police. Same as the Irish guys.)

Then there was the Canadian guy arrested in Bangkok. His friends set up a GoFundMe and then found a gullible reporter and told her that their friend had flown to Thailand and a group of men "dressed like police" had kidnapped him, took him to a "basement" and were holding him for ransom. They claimed that when the kidnappers found out he was Canadian they supposedly raised the ransom amount.

Turns out, the guy had arrived in Bangkok and three days (!!!) later was arrested for trying to sell drugs to an undercover cop ! He was busted in an area known to be a hot spot for "African" drug dealers. (He was "black" as well.)

The "men dressed as police" were actually police and they took him to their station and told him how much his BAIL would be (in US dollars). 
I'm guessing when they found out he was Canadian they amended the amount due to the exchange rate so that it still came out to ($5,000) US.

I explained that to the reporter (on her Twitter account) but being stupid she wouldn't accept it. Until I found the news about what had really happened.
She says she tried to contact his "friends" that had contacted her but they wouldn't return her calls.
Shocker.
(Can't figure out why a guy would fly from Canada to Thailand to sell drugs, unless he was one of those "I'm a Canadian just until I get the magic get out of jail free passport and then I'll go back to being a criminal drug pusher" types.)

Remember the American Youtube "Fitness Star" that died (motorcycle accident ?) in Thailand and his family wanted some outrageous amount ($50,000 US or more) to fly over here and collect the body and fly it home. All first class of course. And all without having to use any of their own money of course.

Whenever you see a tear jerker story full of generalities, usually with a GoFundMe already set up, be wary. GoFundMe is the platform of choice for the amateur scammer. (The pros do BitCoin scams.)

Edited April 4, 2023 by Kerryd
spelling errors

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Garry said:

Look up the costs for a medical flight lease jet with trained triage staff for 8 hrs or so and you'll get an idea why. 

But it is a 12 hour at least flight to the UK plus the transport costs at each end from/to a suitable hospital.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, markclover said:

Just goes to show how utterly useless the Thai medical system is.  People literally need to flown home.

No it doesn't show anything of the sort.

 

His family are the ones that want him flown home and if that is their wish, then they should have to pay the bill for it.

[billd766]

13 minutes ago, MarkyM3 said:

Is the option of paying 400 baht per month open to any expat or those on certain visas? Because I see a lot of posts from people on here who can't get medical insurance. I'm genuinely interested because I plan to semi-retire to Thailand for some of the year in future. 

 

Regards the NHS, plenty of faults but I've had good experiences with it for serious issues. Had brain surgery done and it was performed quickly by a class-leading surgeon.  Great after-care as well.

 

Sounds like you have had good experiences with the Thai system but I've heard complaints from Thai friends who have had to go queue early morning and wait a long time to be seen. 

But if you go to the hospital after lunch or at the weekends the queues are shorter and you don't wait as long.

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, Ralf001 said:

So what you are saying is you have no idea of my insurance policy.

 

Why are you replying with your bull<deleted> ?

I already answered you. If you don't like it then move on. 

[Martin Brit]

7 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

Another day, another victim.

 

We can't depend on Thailand to stop allowing foreigners to come here and rent bikes, some without licenses and or wearing helmets, and most without insurance, or even reading the fine print of their insurance policies, especially when Thailand can't even control their own with a fair few driving unregistered motorbikes, no helmets, cars unregistered and also being unlicensed and uninsured.

 

To the think the police force would be out in force to stop people, maybe for their own tea money, but that's the reality of it.

 

GoFundMe, no, not me thanks.

 

 

 

They have no concept of safe riding. Thais same. In UK one has to do a compulsory bike training course before you are then allowed to get on a small bike with L plates to gain experience. I would recommend anyone doing it before they go abroad and hop on a bike. You learn so much & probably save your life.

[Ralf001]

23 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

The two Irish guys who claimed they'd been drugged and raped in Thailand and that their insurance company had refused to pay for AIDS tests. They got home, made up the rape story, sold it to the Mirror then used the "rape" claim to get free AIDs testing.
Turns out they'd been drinking and partying in Thailand and having "risky" sex with various gay men. They went to a local hospital to get AIDS testing and tried to use their UK (NHS) insurance, which was refused.

Wowzers, A HIV test is like 5 to 600 baht.... the mind boggles as to how cheap <deleted> some people are !!

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, markclover said:

Just goes to show how utterly useless the Thai medical system is.  People literally need to flown home.

No, he does not need to be flown home... Thai doctors are more than capable and qualified to under take what ever care is needed.

 

Its the family that want to fly him home and speaking of useless they do not want to fund it from their own pockets !!

[kimamey]

7 hours ago, RickG16 said:

Surprised. Rarely see anyone ride around Bangkok without a helmet. Unless it was a quiet area.

It was at night. I don't know about Bangkok but in my area I think the police only work office hours and definitely not in the dark. Hence you see even less helmets at night.

 

I've said it before, sack the traffic police and hand it to Grab, Food Panda ect. They seem to be able to get their riders to wear helmets.

 

It's a shame for the family as they aren't responsible for him not wearing a helmet, if that was the case. They just have to deal with the aftermath.

[Lucky Bones]

6 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

1)  Accident reports do not have to be presented to AN posters.

2) Police do not always attend traffic accidents in Thailand.

Agreed on this subject.

Rural/village road deaths rarely have police interaction.

Body goes in the back of a pick-up and the ceremonies begin.

Some eventually get reported and rubber stamped, no questions asked.????????

[teeyai]

7 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

And another dead <deleted> family who beg for money.

Wow Your Parents Must be so Proud to have raised such a fine Human Being

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, AdrianUk said:

the volenteer ambulance crews get 10%, so they take them to expensive hospitals, in other cases its a massive bill, that could have been avoided

Can you please show us a link for a ambulance company/rescue unit and its written policy where they are mandated to take the person to an expensive hospital.  From the way I have observed it to be done, the crews take the injured to the nearest hospital, and only then if they can not be treated there are they transported elsewhere.

[bristolgeoff]

If we lucky we go on the begging bowl called go fund me.Maybe some fools who don,t know what happens will donate something towards the cost.Another go fund me begging bowl case

[Enoon]

7 hours ago, Celsius said:

Do I have to donate?

 

No, it's not compulsory.

 

Neither is money received during an appeal drawn from anyones taxes.

 

So nobody has to get all ****headed about the fact that people ask for money and people give money.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Enoon